Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: VSP Home Care on May 31, 2012, 05:53:05 pm
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Ok chaps, I hope someone has their math and physics head on as mine is in for a service.
I have a 350 tank outside my house and a car park that's 60 feet away and up hill by about 3m from the tank. I brought a 240v transfer pump with an output of about 28L a min, it works like stink when I use it to fill a 25L barrel stood next to the tank, takes about 4 seconds.
So I connected it to a normal garden hose and ran it up to my motor to fill a 75L tank, it took about 40 minutes >:( I was most unhappy.
So today I tested something out. I used my 5 LPM Sureflow pump and 80 foot of 8mm on my hose real, set the pump to flat out and timed how long it took to fill a 10L barrel. 4.5 mins ???
I could fill barrels and lug them up to the car park quicker than that but my back has seen better days and I'd rather sort this crap out before I go a little mental with it.
Can anyone suggest what to do, why is my sureflow 5 LPM pump only giving 2 LPM at this distance and head hight?
Help appreciated guys :)
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Gravity!
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Yep I do appreciate Gravity ;) But I was under the impression that the sureflow should be able to pump up to 50+ foot in height at 5 LPM ???
It's got me confused.
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The gravity that holds you to the ground is pushing the water down continuously. therefore when you try to pump uphill by 3m then thats 0.3 bar less pressure that the pump has available. Add to that the pump has to push all that water up 60feet of pipe with only one outlet at the far end and hence the reason the pump is struggling.
Although your pump has a good transfer rate at 28lpm it probably doesnt have a highly rated pressure or head rating. You would need something suitable for a big display fountain. Your 5lpm shurflow should fill the 10litre barrell in 2 mins but took 4.5mins. I dont know how they rate their pumps but would say that thats still about right considering the length of hose you used and assuming the pump is not the newest.
What is the pressure rating on your transfer pump?
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The controller i use is the Veristream digital and the sureflow is 100psi 5 LPM rated, both are virtually new.
I'm not sure what the pressure rating is on my 240v transfer pump though. I'm more concerned as to why my Sureflow can't seem to reach 5LMP with only 3M of height to deal with.
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Hi VSP
"why is my sureflow 5 LPM pump only giving 2 LPM at this distance and head hight?"
I would suggest that it is because you are using 1/2 " garden hose = a greater volume of water = greater mass to lift.
You wouldn't use garden hose on your Pole so I wouldn't worry I'm sure if you use the pump as designed on 5mm ID pole hose it will have a lot less work to do and will be able to lift a lot higher than 3 metres!
g.
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I have checked their site and it doesnt state what the conditions for their claim of 5lpm are. Try disconnecting your hose reel and measure the flow almost immediately after the pump. You cannot expect any pump to deliver the same flow and pressure that far up the pipe without some reduction.
Your shurflo was delivering about 2.5lpm which is still enough to clean with. That would empty a 250litre tank in 2 hours.
let us know how the flow rating check on the shurflo goes.
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Hi VSP
"why is my sureflow 5 LPM pump only giving 2 LPM at this distance and head hight?"
I would suggest that it is because you are using 1/2 " garden hose = a greater volume of water = greater mass to lift.
You wouldn't use garden hose on your Pole so I wouldn't worry I'm sure if you use the pump as designed on 5mm ID pole hose it will have a lot less work to do and will be able to lift a lot higher than 3 metres!
g.
I'm not using the garden hose on the sureflow, I'm using my 80' hose real in 8mm as I would do normally for the windows. I'll check again without the head of 3M and see what she does. I've worked it over 30' in height but I only ever have the controller at about 5 when working on the windows, unless a mega rinse is required.
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Either look on ebay or go to your local aquatic shop and ask for a pond pump and the nessacary fittings to go with it ,
should get one for £30 or less and it should be able to pump 75 litres a minute i fill my 400 ltr tank in less than 10 mins . got one from B & Q last year when they were selling them off ,
Surely you can park outside your house for 10 mins , MIKE
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Either look on ebay or go to your local aquatic shop and ask for a pond pump and the nessacary fittings to go with it ,
should get one for £30 or less and it should be able to pump 75 litres a minute i fill my 400 ltr tank in less than 10 mins . got one from B & Q last year when they were selling them off ,
Surely you can park outside your house for 10 mins , MIKE
Can't mate, I live on the ground floor of a block of flats, I'd never get the car back up the garden ;D
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The core problem (assuming I understand you correctly) is the bore of the hose you're using, which I read to be half inch.
Imagine trying to drink a milkshake through a metre-long straw versus a metre-long half inch hosepipe. Disgusting thought, but you can see that the hose would be easier than the straw. The reason is that almost all the resistance against a liquid moving in a tube is friction (kind of) between the liquid and the tube walls. Smaller cross section means more wall per ml of fluid, so it's much harder.
I use a 1" hose, but you do need to bear in mind that it can be a bit unwieldy. Fine for a semi-permanent use but a royal PITA if you're putting the whole thing out every day (worse so in winter, when it's liek tryig to tie a knot in an anaconda). Flow is much higher than I could ever get form a half-inch hose.
If you improve your pump you'll get some gain, but the hose will be the easy win. You can get layflat hose, which is easier to work with, but which will wear out no matter how hard you try to look after it.
Vin
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e.g. http://www.hydraulic-shop.co.uk/1-bore-x-1-metre-24-p.asp
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Edited after the rest of this post went missing...
You can try lay-flat but you must treat it as a consumable: It'll wear out no matter what you do.
Vin
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The tank outside your flat - can you put it on stilts so it is higher? Less effort for the pump.
Also the 1" pipe option is good.
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The core problem (assuming I understand you correctly) is the bore of the hose you're using, which I read to be half inch.
Imagine trying to drink a milkshake through a metre-long straw versus a metre-long half inch hosepipe. Disgusting thought, but you can see that the hose would be easier than the straw. The reason is that almost all the resistance against a liquid moving in a tube is friction (kind of) between the liquid and the tube walls. Smaller cross section means more wall per ml of fluid, so it's much harder.
I use a 1" hose, but you do need to bear in mind that it can be a bit unwieldy. Fine for a semi-permanent use but a royal PITA if you're putting the whole thing out every day (worse so in winter, when it's liek tryig to tie a knot in an anaconda). Flow is much higher than I could ever get form a half-inch hose.
If you improve your pump you'll get some gain, but the hose will be the easy win. You can get layflat hose, which is easier to work with, but which will wear out no matter how hard you try to look after it.
Vin
Spot on, 1 inch hose he needs. Found the same with the lay flat, opted for the coiled black stuff sold at most aquarists and its much better, although heavier and unwieldly.