Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DODA on April 22, 2012, 01:23:43 pm
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Hi Guys
In September 2010 i was working at a csm property and forgot to do a side window with wfp which i had put away and grabbed my stepladder to do manually ,whilst up there i felt a bit dizzy (only 4ft off the ground) and leaned slightly to the side and held onto a brick archway going over their exterior gate which then fell away from me.
I instantly reacted and pulled the archway towards me where it then split into two pieces with me holding on to a piece in each arm (the archway was a double brick affair) .
The smaller of the two pieces i placed back up whilst holding onto the larger piece with with one hand ,while still standing on the step ladder i then tried to bring the larger piece back down to the floor so it would not damage the patio. I then realised how heavy the larger piece was which was now cutting into my arm ( the small piece was no light weight ) and when trying to go down the step ladder slipped and had to let it go where the weight of it destroyed two patio slabs.
I then got off the floor after the slip and tried to use my right arm and the pain was unreal and called my wife to say i would be home and that i thoght i had broken my arm ,left a note for the csm expaining what had happened put steps away and went home .only up the road and drove with one arm.
I then sit on the stairs waiting for my wife who had gone shopping nursng my arm in agony and having a smoke.
Next few days every thing swells up both arms and instep of feet from standing on step ladder.
Goto casualty ,have xrays and it is badly strained and get painkiller and sling and what not...
Two months later after resting it go back to work on a commercial job and after an hour arm swells like a balloon go home try again several times and the same problem....
then goto specialist private recommends mri and injections for pain so spend over a £1000.00 and they come to the conclusion nerve needs to be decompressed ..
Have op 14 months later jan 2012 nice 4 inch scar very manly and still the same problem tried working for the last two weeks but after two hours aches like a pig and swells....
Had someone maintain some of my work whilst other bits are being done by other cleaners whilst the csm waits for me too come back..
My wife now wants to see a solicitor ,all of my insurances have run out and money is getting very tight but i dont like the idea off suing a csm for an accident ...
what do you think .....
darren
sorry for the long post
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if i was you ,i would employ if i was you,some lad with no driving licence , put an ad out a.s.a.p and you can drive the van. you can double up the workload with canvassing and then take on a second lad who will fit in your van,in the back maybe
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I expect a solicitor will say you should have got your WFP kit back out and not used the step-ladder.
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maybe i am not reading this right but what makes you think you can sue.
From what i can read this is you fault
again maybe i am not reading this right
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WHATS A CSM?
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Customer service manager.
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Company Sergeant Major
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it was your own fault, makes me
What I would do is employ someone to help you, and hope they dont have the same mindset as your wife.
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All the work is covered at the moment so that is not issue its just a case of i,m not earning...
As for getting the wfp back out due to the nature of the house and me trying to save time it was quicker to get the steps off ,just not safer .
My attitude is that it was accident these things happen and i did cause it there is no reason why the archway would have not stay up for another 30 years or it could have fallen in high wind , its just my better half want to pursue the issue ...
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Never thought of trying to employ someone and i drive the van and help out ,but iwll end up trying to the brunt of the work myself no one ever does the things the way you want..
Did have someone work working with me for 6 months couple of years ago and it was a nightmare spent more time checking up on them ...
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what makes you think that you can sue the custy? This is the craziest thing i have heard in ages , i am dead against the sueing culture that has come about in the last few years as all it does it hikes premiums for everyone else and you have gotta know when to stand up and accept responsibity for your own actions. This however is noones fault but yours and why you or your wife think you can sue the custy is simply rediculous if not laughable and clutching at straws. You need to take control of this situation and employ some ideas mentioned previously in this thread.
I am sorry about your unfortunate situation and if you think that this is an insensitive post but i am just saying how i see it :)
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If a window cleaner was cleaning my home and broke a brick arch then tried to sue me i would take it to all the local and national papers and distroy their busness.
Its not right you felt dizzy you broke the wall and now you want to sue the customer.
did you fix their patio slabs for them ???
Regards Paul
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I do see your point and my reputation is something i would like to keep intact i think this is just more of frustration of the situation on my wifes part .
I will try again tomorrow and keep swapping arms and try and build the strengh back up in it ,and i have more phsyical therapy on tuesday and i have a strap ordered to support the elbow joint so that should help......
i have only been back two weeks perhaps im expecting to much after the op due to the muscle they cut away to release the nerve.
darren
ps archway has been replaced and patio slabs .....
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Perhaps asking your wife to read some of these replies would help her to understand that she is being ridiculous.
You fell off your own ladders and destroyed the customers property. I feel for you and your injury but they owe you nothing.
Continuing with this thought process will result in nothing but more time wasted and your company profile damaged with other customers.
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the only people who will benefit from you persuing this case will be a group of low life, money grabbing, ambulance chasing solicitors
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If you try to sue, do you think that the customer may file a countersuit against you?
Were you to persue this would probably result in the same damage to your reputation that you wish to prevent.
Sorry to hear about your accident, but sometimes we have to look honestly at where the responsibility for the accident lies.
FYI I had an accident recently where I split my head open on a shelf while clearing rubbish from a house for my aunt. Blood everywhere and I needed hospital treatment to have the laceration glued up.
It cost me E100 to be treated at our local A&E. My aunt pleaded with me not to sue her. I was horrified and said how could I sue for an accident that was no-one's fault but mine.
John
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dump the wife simple, money grabbing boot, sorry hate folk with the sue attitude and I would leave mine in a heart beat if she tried to do the same
again sorry
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DUMP WIFE AND REPLACE WITH 2 MORE ;D
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its your fault from what im rwading, how can you sue the customer? my insurance states i must use the safest method to clean, it was your fault that you chose to not clean with wfp
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So is it the customers fault you didn't get pole back out?
what exactly did she do wrong?
what should she have done to make the wall safer?
genuinely interested and curious why you posted.
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if you go to a solictor that does this type of work, they will at first say yes, you can sue and you will get between £5000 and £10000.
But the CSM solicitor will simple quote the whad 2005 and 2007 regulations and dismiss the attempt to get money out of them.
The only way to suceed in this action is if you can prove that csm wanted you to use the stepladder instead of wfp.
When your solicitor gets the decision from the csm solicitor, then he will say that they cannot go forward with the case because they cannot get the insurance policy in place to cover the cost of the case, he will though offer to represent you if you decide to go forward and pay for the costs yourself.
If you go down that route, then it might end up with your wife seeing a divorce solicitor.
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dont even think about it mate.IT WAS YOUR FAULT!!!
take it easy if you ve just got back to work.employ a guy to help you out and you go along and collect the money/trad the ground floor windows,write tickets out etc,etc.
best wishes and i hope you make a full recovery.
dazmond
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WHATS A CSM?
dyslexia.. federation Manager ;)
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please dont lay in to hard to me, now that gls lee is about. but.im sure i was told that if you injure yourself on someones property. you can sue. burglars often do this. it is not down to whos fault exactly just the fact that you were injured on THEIR property.I have allways thought that your insurance, claims on their home insurance.
also that brick arch should have been SAFE it could have fallen on someone at any time, then there would have been a claim.you must at least speak to a lawyer for advice . that is what we also pay home insurance for, public liability :-X
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You could look at like this
Your washing machine breaks down and you call a guy in to fix it, on the way to your house he gets stopped by the police for speeding.
He has now gone over his 12 point limit and loses his licence for 6 months and cannot work.
Should he be able to sue you for lose of earnings because if you hadn't called him this wouldn't have happened
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for gods sake ,the fact that you were dizzy caused this .so hows that the custys liability.
show some dignity .
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Pristine is right. There is a legal obligation on the customer to provide a safe working environment. During the time that you are working at the customer's premises the customer is deemed to be your employer. This is quite right and proper - a customer should not be allowed to invite someone onto their premises to perform paid work if they are aware of any situation that could endanger the operative. (Like a plate glass window about to drop out of the frame, etc)
Unfortunately the parasites have latched on to this with the 'No Win No Fee' and 'Where there's Blame, there's a Claim' so there have been cases of customers being sued for the stupidest reasons (Failing to point out to the window cleaner that climbing a ladder can be dangerous!!). It comes down to common sense and fair play by the window cleaner - if he has suffered an injury because the customer didn't tell him she'd spilled a bucket of greasy water on the patio, and he slips in it then he is entitled to be compensated; if he injures himself by tripping over a plant pot, he should have been looking where he was going and ought not to be entitled to compensation.
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Hi All
Went out today and done 6 houses before weather stopped play , if not may have done 1 or 2 more . Just good to be out....
My arm is swollen so ice packs are out in force to bring the swelling down before the wife gets home...
It seems that over the last couple of weeks after i have worked i keep the wife awake with constant moving and moaning of pain , i know nothing of this due to the tramadol i take .
But still early days physio tomorrow more exercises and heat treatment
something to look forward to.
Just released money from an isa so thats a couple more morgage payments so thats a weight off my mind...
darren
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Hi Doda be carefull dont aggravate the injury,COULD EFFECT CLAIM, get a young lad to work for you nice and cheap and go on round with them,
thanks Ian sounds right to me, that arch was UNSTABLE FACT.
pure hydro. EH
Edward, have some sympathy for god sake this is a serious injury exactly what insurance is there for, weather it is Dodas or house holders.
If the house holder has no household insurance forget it, but if they do GO FOR IT.
again that is what it is for.
IN MY EYES THE FACT THAT YOU WERE AT WORK AT THE TIME IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME,
One last thing was there by any chance a gas boiler outlet near where you went dizzy. just because you went dizzy does not prevent your claim, more to the point WHY? The more I think about it the more angry I become.
YOU WERE
INJURED AT WORK END OF GO FOR A CLAIM
Alan Pristine window cleaning
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Ok I've tried to keep quiet but here goes:
This is a clear example of how we have taken the example set by our American cousins and gone down the road of developing a culture where our reaction to virtually all scenarios is to look to apportion blame. In most cases, it is easier to look to external issues as to look at ourselves would be to admit a certain level of weakness - and lord knows we can't be having any of that can we?
Sometimes accidents happen and I think this is exactly that.
You lost balance and leant against an archway to stop your fall and in some way you appear to be claiming (or your wife is) that that archway should have been able to sustain your weight - that in some way the householder is liable because they did not forsee that you would fall against it and they did not strengthen it to account for that possibility.
You also said above: "it was quicker to get the steps off ,just not safer" so that clearly shows you have considered the issue and you took the less safe option in a trade-off for speed. We have all done this I'm sure but the choice was yours, and yours alone.
You do have my sympathy as you are clearly suffering some time after the original incident. However, the severity should not affect the original situation and where the blame really lies for the incident. I can also appreciate that as things have turned out worse than you expected financially this pressure forces you to consider things that you would not normally do. I think that had the accident happened and you'd suffered no injury you would have paid for the broken archway and broken slab from your own pocket; so why does that now change if the injury is more severe?
Put yourself in their shoes: you engage someone to clean your windows, they have an accident through their negligence and then they sue you which essentially is blaming you for something you could never imagine happening and was no fault of yours at all.
As for the suggestion by Pristine above, whether the householder has insurance is not really an issue. If they 'are' to blame then by that reasoning shouldn't you sue them anyway then they could be forced to sell their house to pay for your negligence; or is it that to sue the householder is somehow different to claiming on their insurance - I don't see the distinction myself - other that the insurance company will have deeper pockets.
As hard as it seems, in my opinion you should suck it up and deal with it as best you can. I wish I could be different but personal responsibility is a quality that seems to have been lost over the last couple of decades; blaming others for your own actions is not the answer.
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Go easy easy on him, chaps; he only mentioned seeing a solicitor.
He's had a rough time and if money's tight, I can see why he would consider it.
I didn't realise that insurance companies would get so much sympathy :D.
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i dont think whoever built the archway thought he'd need to stregthen it just "incase" a careless window cleaner happened to fall into it.. it was'nt made to withstand that so how could you sue..crazy
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I personally would just get rid of my wife, before I would sue a customer for something that was my fault, but that is just my opinion and he can do whatever he wants :-\
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good reply by bay view wcs, my view is the same suck it up and get on with it,
does the wife not work?
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insurance is there for EXACTLY this reason. Bayview your taking it to the extreme.
LISTEN UP FOr XXXX SAKE,
doda was injured at work it does not matter whos fault but WHERE it took place.
Again if the homeowner has household insurance then claim ,that is what it is in place for, doda would only get about £10,000 anyway AND IT WOULD NOT AFFECT THE HOMEOWNER, DONT WORRY ABOUT IT, WHEN SOMEONE IS INJURED LIKE THIS I FOR ONE WELCOME THEIR CLAIM.
That brick arch WAS unsafe FACT, I am an ex bricklayer (maybe I built it)
this is NOT American culture just someone with a genuine claim who needs financial help.
If doda was or is, insured this is what HIS insurance company would do CLAIM AGAINST THE HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE SIMPLE Not chase them down and sue them personaly. IF YOU GET INJURED, PARTICULARLY AT WORK YOU ARE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION. FOR GODS SAKE WHY NOT
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IF YOU GET INJURED, PARTICULARLY AT WORK YOU ARE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION. FOR GODS SAKE WHY NOT
Not if you're negligent you're not.
In addition, brick arches aren't built to take weight or force, they're features, cosmetic, not load-bearing.
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CLAIM AGAINST THE HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE SIMPLE Not chase them down and sue them personaly. IF YOU GET INJURED, PARTICULARLY AT WORK YOU ARE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION. FOR GODS SAKE WHY NOT
For a start, he broke the law, he has wfp and used it on this job, but laziness kicked in and he took a short cut and then has a accident.
You keep going on about sueing the insurance company and not the householder, WHY? if the householder is at fault them they should be sued, but instead you insist that he should sue the insurance company.
So why should I and everybody else in this country including you, pay him for being foolish, at the moment we pay more in insurance premiums to cover these stupid claims.
and if you still agree that he should sue the insurance company, then the HSE should go after him for breaking the WHAD 2005 and 2007 regulations, I think their fines and costs will cover the £10k he will get in a pay out.
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WOW HERE WE GO AGAIN.
Where are the big players in this ,
AGAIN LISTEN, who said anything about sueing ,not ME .
IT IS A CLAIM NOT A MATTER OF SUEING ANYONE.
if the householder has contents insurance that would pay out under a claim,MAYBE.
BUT IF HE DOESNT AT LEAST TRY HE WONT KNOW WILL HE.
Nobody is sueing anyone it is a CLAIM only.
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OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON
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If the OP had insurance to pay the mortgage in case of being unable to work, should he not claim as it was his "fault" that he got dizzy and lost his balance?
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Putting a claim in is still very much up in the air at the moment.
The house in question is a dorma bungalow semi detached in a street set in a mountain.
So wfp upstairs is obvious due to the roof , due to the nature of the houses on one side of the street high in front lowe in back and opposite side of the street that i was on low in front high in the back .
I clean both front then go around the rear and clean the rear of the first property all wfp plus the side , hose goes over the fence and carry pole to the other house reconnect pole and clean upstairs of damaged property then the side window which i forgot and then put everything wefp away and get stepladder ( 3 section ladder)
and clean downstairs rear windows trad because they keep spotting wfp and the rear door trad as well put ladders back in van and walk around and realise forgot side window..
Side window is 8 ft from ground level and arch way is almost where by my right hand side 8 inches away , i couldn,t say how much pressure i put on the arch but i clean numerous properties with them to know that it shouldn,t have collapsed wether it is a decorative feature or not.
Still doesn,t change the fact that i should not have put weight on it or that i should have got my wfp back out ,but i am both trad and wfp not that , that is a defence ..
We are talking 8 ft from ground level ,if it was a dorma window i had forgot wfp all the way...
As for being dizzy god knows could have stood up to fast when extending the step ladder which has little security clips to extend and drop back down.
If i had broke my arm this would be academic 6-8 weeks arm heals carry on where i left off no problem , thought the same thing after they said bad strain in casualty i had morgage and income cover so no real problem but 18 months later going to bed drugged every night i just don,t know what is wrong with it ...
As for the notion of putting a claim in women talk people ask how i am and that includes many of my customers and a couple have said to me that am i seeking advice to which i will reply (no i was an accident)...
Plus then you will have family members and other friends who have watched too much matlock giving advice which i will dismiss but my wife will take on board ..
I will try again tomorrow and see how things go but if it came to the point where i had go back to employment that would kill me...
darren
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Are you not pursuing it with your GP? Is it a mystery injury to which there is no cure or will theNHS not pay?
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as a side note ,i would get rid of the stepladder. on this forum i have read of no end of bad falls from a step ladder.
i wont allow any of my workers to use one and never will.
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Doda join then get info from bwca or fwc or other, you must get pro advice dont listen to any of us. one thing is for sure you broke no law and it makes no difference whether your wfp or trad or both or you were dizzy or lazy or useless or stupid or on ladder or on step ladder or on pile of rubble or dog poop.
THE FACT REMAINS THE SAME, YOU WERE INJURED AT A PLACE OF WORK , PERIOD.
GET ON WITH CLAIM not sueing.
Alan
Pristine window cleaning.
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Not a mystery so much ,they had released the radial nerve and remove some muscle and i saw the specialist two weeks ago and you get the same old thing its going to take time to heal.
They then gave me cortazone for my shoulder which they thought was aching in sympathy for my arm and gave me xrays but as with anything with the nhs its the cheapest option first and then work their way up.
wish i had bupa now
There seems to be another nerve called the ulma or something like that which may be trapped , who knows .
In hindsight should have just let it fall , flipping reflexes....
darren
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To sue someone for damages you have to prove negligence.
It isn't as straight forwards as the adverts make it seem.
It would also probably take 2 to 5 years to go to court.
Been there, done it, and by the end, I wished I hadn't bothered.
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The law was broken, Fact... The WAHR is law, not a guide a law, and he did not follow the law, he has WFP, but chose to use a step ladder, and as the H & S advert says, "shattered lives", all to save getting the pole out again and follow the law
idealrob
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I would like to add that the main amount of money from a claim is from loss of income and future loss of income.If you can not earn what you did and will not again from a doctors point of view ,(which you will need)You could get a high settlement.These quick no win no fee jobs are rubbish by the way.
Get a real solicitor and real advise ,not from window cleaners.
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OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON
so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.
I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.
He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.
and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing
sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.
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.He lent on a brick wall structure and it gave way.The injury was due to stoping the stone /brick from falling on him.
This is how i read it anyway.
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I have every sympathy for the OP and his ongoing injury problems,an important point which hasn't been raised is-were the step ladders BS kite marked,if they were DIY ladders you will fall(no pun intended)at the first hurdle.
Another point to consider is,you would lose a lot of customers if they were made aware you had claimed against the householder.
I have fell twice from ladders,broken bone in foot first time,then broken bone in elbow second time and took full responsibility for the accidents on both occasions.
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OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON
so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.
I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.
He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.
and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing
sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.
Dont you just love know it alls, that know nothing, it is as law, understand law, and yes type into HSE website and see the prosecuctions for breaking the law, Michael Mills was the first to be prosecuted for breaking the WAHR law, a law that was passed in Parliament, and fined £3k
Michael Mills, trading as MB Mills General Contractors, of Cambridge was fined a total of £3,000 plus costs of £3,517, at Bedford Magistrates Court, yesterday, Thursday 15 September 2005. The prosecution brought by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), followed its investigation into a breach of the Work at Height Regulations (WAHR) 2005.
there the offence , the prosecution and the fine for breaking the law, simple,
idealrob
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I think your find it is different for a SOLE TRADER, and dont forget i was the first to say, seek other advice, and I FOR ONE, dont claim to know it all , but these thoughts from everyone should be investigated further. but dont ask no solicitor or only one ask 2 or 3.
Are you really saying that although he has wfp, yet used a step ladder to clean a LOW LEVEL window trad, that he BROKE A LAW, again what planet are you on.
every incident has its own story.
come on the big boys what do you think.
Alan pristine windows
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no different for a sole trader, why should it be, and as for the planet i am on, it called The Earth, or the real world, for those who understand the law, have you not read the WAHR, you know the one thats law, and if you understood the WAHR, you would know how he broke the law.
Have a read, and you might learn something
idealrob
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I have employees so I have to have a good under standing of all health and saftey regulations
And it does say in the Working at Height Regulation A place is ‘at height’ if a person could be injured falling from it, even if it is at or below ground level.
WAHR place duties on employers AND the self-employed
If you had a injury at work it must be reported to RIDDOR
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well it would seem you have answer lol like the other guys have said just set a bloke on and do the driving , try and get someone who cant drive and who dont live near you round that way they wont pinch your work (hopefully ) and as for the wife mmmmmmmmm i had 1 like that i soon off hired her and replaced with a newer and better model
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OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON
so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.
I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.
He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.
and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing
sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.
I would have understood this better IF YOU HAVE PUT some SHOUTY bits in THE reply
ART.
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I'm going to go to Pristine Window Cleanings house later to post a flyer, accidently on purpose injure myself ans then sue the crap out of him. IDIOTS
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I have employees so I have to have a good under standing of all health and saftey regulations
And it does say in the Working at Height Regulation A place is ‘at height’ if a person could be injured falling from it, even if it is at or below ground level.
WAHR place duties on employers AND the self-employed
If you had a injury at work it must be reported to RIDDOR
Yes but only certain injuries - so you are not totally correct. Not every injury MUST be reported. Breaking digits (fingers/toes) are not reportable nor are injuries that keep you off work for less than 7 days (includes weekends!). N.B. this recently (APRIL) increased from 3 days.
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I will say again try to make CLAIM on custys home insurance.
Do not SUE anyone
Steve by all means drop one of your flyers round, if my insurance deems fit to give you £10,000,
fair play to you it wont bother me none.
Alan
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What's the difference between suing someone then and making a claim Pristine? I think in legal terms effectively they're the same thing.
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Hi Matt
But there not are they, insurance is in place for both situations, a claim is a REQUEST, for compensation, sueing is I AM COMING TO GET AS MUCH AS I CAN YOUR POSSESIONS IF NEED BE. Thats the difference
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OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON
so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.
I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.
He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.
and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing
sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.
No offence Pure Hydro but I have seen you quote WHAD a few times in various posts.
To my knowledge there are no WHAD regulations in force?
Although WAHR (Working At Height Regulations) are applicable to our trade.
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no idea about whad, but if your telling me that because he used a step ladder he BROKE THE LAW, then we are all breaking the law every day ??? aint we?
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no idea about whad, but if your telling me that because he used a step ladder he BROKE THE LAW, then we are all breaking the law every day ??? aint we?
If you don't know what WHAD is you really shouldn't be giving advice really, as he clearly broke the rules as do I often, but I wouldn't try claim for my own stupidity
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It's WAHD fellas ;D
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what, because he used a step ladder to reach a low level window, he is stupid.are you saying that as he uses wfp, he is not allowed to use a stepladder, now that is BOLLxxxx, the only real advice that i gave was dont listen to us, but get pro advice.
not like you though eh , lets just call him stupid, thanks for your usual
input. at least i am trying to help and i do think that many of you are too serious about almost everything on this forum, you just take things tooooo literally
Alan
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Pristine the use of ladders is outlawed if there is a feasible alternative.
Failure to use that feasible alternative will in the eyes of insurance companies render him unable to sue or claim. If you have an accident in a car and you are driving with undue care and attention you wont be able to make a claim. Its the same the world over.
Inusrance companies will simply turn round and say 'He needn't have had that accident, it was his fault he didnt use the safer alternative, end of story'.
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no idea about whad, but if your telling me that because he used a step ladder he BROKE THE LAW, then we are all breaking the law every day ??? aint we?
if there is an accident then yes, unless this is footed by someone else or the right safety equipment is used to secure it, it is all within the wording. just like ladders are not banned, just if you use them incorrectly then fall it is your fault
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OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON
so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.
I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.
He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.
and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing
sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.
No offence Pure Hydro but I have seen you quote WHAD a few times in various posts.
To my knowledge there are no WHAD regulations in force?
Although WAHR (Working At Height Regulations) are applicable to our trade.
You are correct I always mix the letters up :P but I never use a ladder or step ladder, why bother when my pole does the climbing
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sue the wife , and then move in with the custy . sorted
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It's WAHD fellas ;D
dohh ;D
Pristine go google the rules, then give advice
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nope cant find anything about wahd sorry.
ah but now i see, you mean work at height regs.
if you had said that, then.
ok nope, sorry, still cannot see how he BROKE THE LAW, or a REGULATION that states if you use wfp then you can NOT, use a step ladder .
none of us saw how he used that ladder ,so cannot state that he broke any law or regulation,remember, he fell to one side because he felt dizzy, not because he was lazy or stupid.
PHEW there I rest my case mlord
Alan
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Was the ladder secured, that is the law. If you do a job with out working from the ground eg a pole, a full written risk assesment has to be done for each job, thats the law. Was the ladder numbered & recorded in an inspection book, was it a trade ladder, the list goes on.
Here is the link from How Do They Affect Window Cleaners?
http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/wahd.html
Even before the regulations were published, the consultation document made it clear that they would have a profound impact on window cleaners. There are few other trades where work at height, in particular the use of ladders, plays such an integral part of the working process.
Put simply, the regulations say that if a task can reasonably be done without the need to work at height, then it must be done that way.
They also require that when ladders are used (and a risk assessment must show that work at height was unavoidable) then those ladders must be "secured".The Regulations and Water-Fed Pole Systems
An obvious question that arises is how does the advent of water-fed pole systems affect window cleaners in light of the new regulations? The answer is somewhat complex.
It is now illegal to work at height where a risk assessment would show that it is reasonably practical to complete the task from the safety of the ground.
Its a simple fact that the vast majority of window cleaning work can now be done without the need to work at height by using a water-fed pole system. As using a system is almost always faster (and therefore more efficient) than using ladders, and can clean to greater heights than is possible from ladders, it would be very hard to argue that using a water-fed pole was not "reasonably practical" in the majority of cases.
This takes on a particularly serious dimension for employers who could be prosecuted under the new regulations if their worker has an accident while using ladders for a cleaning task that could have been done with water-fed pole.
The HSE has promised more guidance on what it would consider to be "reasonably practcable" in the context of the regulations, but this has not yet been produced.
All Ladders Must Be "Secured" - What Does That Mean?
Schedule 6 of the regulations require that when ladders are used, they must be "secured", and then goes on to describe specifically how that is to be done.
1)"Securing the Stiles"
For example, tying them using straps or chords to an existing structure (eg scaffolding). This method is not practical for most window cleaning
2)"An effective anti-slip or other effective stability device"
For example a rojak stopper or ladder leveller. More than one device may needed.
3)"Any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness"
This may include having another person 'foot' the ladder as a last resort
The law and guidence is there for those who want to look, others just make excuses, with a wont happen to me attitude.
the simple fact is its law, we use it , we are safer and earn more money quicker, great, imagine having to do a written risk assesment for every individual job, when using a ladder ?
idealrob
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nice one Rob,
Alan
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nice one Rob,
Alan
See you can learn something on here, just most ignore it till it ends in shattered lives
idealrob