Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Crystal-clear on April 11, 2012, 07:46:58 pm
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isnt it great when you get a phone call from a leaflet , you can double it first time sell em anything cos they just really want it,
im slowly trying to build up more work that i can sub out long term but im not looking forward to the painful canvassing process you know pick up 10 have 5 left on 3rd clean and its the mistery factor , u never know what you got till you clean it 3 times.
leaflet customers are just so much better but then you need to wait for the phone to ring.
who builds with leaflet only? how many u need to drop for say 100 calls or better yet 100 cleans.
i can get 20,000 leaflets for a reasonable price its tempting but then what should i be paying to deliver them and more important you need a trustworthy company to deliver them
i wonder how lees 100k drop went.
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My business is built entirely on leaflets. If I drop 225 I get a customer (not a call). Mine contain a price, so almost every call is a customer, as they have already got over that hurdle. So, for me to get 100 customers costs 22,500 leaflets.
Ref delivery, I was sick of lying delivery companies (to hear more drop me an email), so I placed an ad on Gumtree for self-employed leafletters at £6 an hour. I got hundreds of responses and chose the two who had the gumption to look up my phone number and call. They carry a tracker so I know (1) the hours they have been out and (2) the streets they did (you can actually see their tracks up and down garden paths on Google Earth so you know they aren't just going for a stroll). They drift about doing the hours that suit them but if I wanted more customers I'd just up the pressure a bit and get a handful going. I'm pretty stuffed full at the mo so I don't need them going at it full-tilt.
They deliver around 120 an hour, so 5p each. My leaflets are just under 3p, so 8p x 225 = £18.00 for a self-qualified customer. I think that's an absolute bargain. £18 each for your 100 customers will be £1,800. You simply can't avoid the mathematical truth in there, I'm afraid.
As for waiting for the phone to ring, I get about 25% within a week, 25% second week, 25% third week and then the rest over the next year or so. (The exact numbers are a handful of % different but near enough).
So, 20,000 leaflets will be whatever you pay plus £1,000 delivery and at my rate of response would get you 89 customers.
Hope that helps,
Vin
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Who supplied the tracker that's used?
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Thank you Vin Very helpful post indeed you broke it all down even.
this tracker thing sounds quite interesting how did you get them that?
also m8t dropping over 20k in leaflets dont you find it hard to cover areas?
for example say you wanted to hit a certain pstcode with over 100 streets how do they stay on top of that?
and do they drop your leaflets as single for only £6 an hour?
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Perfect windows,how do put your prices on the leaflets to accomadate different size properties,I'm quite intrested in doing this.
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Perfect windows,how do put your prices on the leaflets to accomadate different size properties,I'm quite intrested in doing this.
its a guide price im guessing a bit like lee pryors
i think its a good idea. might have to put one in as it will break the ice already , only downside im thinking is it will be in the one off peoples head so when they call to ask for a one off and say its 3x they might think they are getting ripped off.
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I'm going to look at pryors site to see his structure
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iv employed 2 partime leafletters over the last year or so and for every 1 honest worker theres 10 skivers !
im now v.good at spotting a Skiving leafletter ,heres some SURE signs
- covering too much ground ,a skiver overexaggerates how far he walks
- never complaining about aching legs/hips,cos hes been holed up in a bus shelter!)
- loves texting,a skiver texts bigtime to pass his workday
- tries hard to switch to work alone,rather than in a pair- a skiver will go the extra mile to be alone
- happily works 6 hours or more( a genuine leafletter flakes at 5 hrs)
- says he loves working in the rain(of course,cos hes in the dry in the bus shelter again )
- FAKES being tired, a trudging walk style,but within seconds hes walking very quickly,especially once paid
a good way to catch out a wayward leafletter is to praise them,say youre doing good- then they increase the skiving as they think you are dozy - at that point theyre easy to catch by following them in disguise ,wearing a wig works well i hav found
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My business is built entirely on leaflets. If I drop 225 I get a customer (not a call). Mine contain a price, so almost every call is a customer, as they have already got over that hurdle. So, for me to get 100 customers costs 22,500 leaflets.
Ref delivery, I was sick of lying delivery companies (to hear more drop me an email), so I placed an ad on Gumtree for self-employed leafletters at £6 an hour. I got hundreds of responses and chose the two who had the gumption to look up my phone number and call. They carry a tracker so I know (1) the hours they have been out and (2) the streets they did (you can actually see their tracks up and down garden paths on Google Earth so you know they aren't just going for a stroll). They drift about doing the hours that suit them but if I wanted more customers I'd just up the pressure a bit and get a handful going. I'm pretty stuffed full at the mo so I don't need them going at it full-tilt.
They deliver around 120 an hour, so 5p each. My leaflets are just under 3p, so 8p x 225 = £18.00 for a self-qualified customer. I think that's an absolute bargain. £18 each for your 100 customers will be £1,800. You simply can't avoid the mathematical truth in there, I'm afraid.
As for waiting for the phone to ring, I get about 25% within a week, 25% second week, 25% third week and then the rest over the next year or so. (The exact numbers are a handful of % different but near enough).
So, 20,000 leaflets will be whatever you pay plus £1,000 delivery and at my rate of response would get you 89 customers.
Hope that helps,
Vin
absolute quality post m8
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hi vin.
what was your job description details as i was just gonna put one on gumtree to gain some leaflet droppers.
mail me if you like m8, id like to discuss this with you pls
info@cannockwindowcleaning.co.uk
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I'm going to get some done,any cheap places and also would like them to go in the letter box without a struggle what size,thickness would do?
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Perfect windows,how do put your prices on the leaflets to accomadate different size properties,I'm quite intrested in doing this.
If you look on my website (link below) you'll get the idea
V
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Who supplied the tracker that's used?
It was from Maplins. Very simple - one button to switch on at start of deliveries, one to switch off. They send the log file it generates with their invoices. The only possible scamming that can go on is if they deliver someone else's leafets with mine (which might slightly reduce my strike rate), but I do occasionally see them out and haven't caught them at this yet.
Vin
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I'm going to look at pryors site to see his structure
I hope you like it ;)
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My business is built entirely on leaflets. If I drop 225 I get a customer (not a call). Mine contain a price, so almost every call is a customer, as they have already got over that hurdle. So, for me to get 100 customers costs 22,500 leaflets.
Ref delivery, I was sick of lying delivery companies (to hear more drop me an email), so I placed an ad on Gumtree for self-employed leafletters at £6 an hour. I got hundreds of responses and chose the two who had the gumption to look up my phone number and call. They carry a tracker so I know (1) the hours they have been out and (2) the streets they did (you can actually see their tracks up and down garden paths on Google Earth so you know they aren't just going for a stroll). They drift about doing the hours that suit them but if I wanted more customers I'd just up the pressure a bit and get a handful going. I'm pretty stuffed full at the mo so I don't need them going at it full-tilt.
They deliver around 120 an hour, so 5p each. My leaflets are just under 3p, so 8p x 225 = £18.00 for a self-qualified customer. I think that's an absolute bargain. £18 each for your 100 customers will be £1,800. You simply can't avoid the mathematical truth in there, I'm afraid.
As for waiting for the phone to ring, I get about 25% within a week, 25% second week, 25% third week and then the rest over the next year or so. (The exact numbers are a handful of % different but near enough).
So, 20,000 leaflets will be whatever you pay plus £1,000 delivery and at my rate of response would get you 89 customers.
Hope that helps,
Vin
That's well worked out Vin.
I think both leafleting and canvassing both have their place... I built my round canvassing.
Andy
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hi vin.
what was your job description details as i was just gonna put one on gumtree to gain some leaflet droppers.
mail me if you like m8, id like to discuss this with you pls
info@cannockwindowcleaning.co.uk
I lost the original, but it was something like:
Reliable self-employed leafletters 10-40 hours a week
The text outlined what I was looking for, clarified self-employent status and mentioned that carrying the tracker was a condition of payment of invoices.
Tracker at: http://www.maplin.co.uk/bluetoothandreg-gps-travel-tracker-351568 - Mine was £60, now £20.
Vin
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I'm going to look at pryors site to see his structure
I hope you like it ;)
You may find that mine is very much similar to Lee's...almost as if I nicked it!
Vin
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I'm going to look at pryors site to see his structure
I hope you like it ;)
hey lee how u doing m8
ill post you my newest trifold in A3 ;D
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i think you got an amazing setup vin,
so that thing tracks where they are at all times when you connect it to the pc?
or can you see it while they are walking?
i havnt tried looking for self employed leafletters but i can imagine it cant be that easy
and you are even getting invoiced by them at £6 an hour sounds like you got yourself a couple of hard working decent guys ,
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would be interested to know what tracker you use Vin, that sounds like a good bit of kit.
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i think you got an amazing setup vin,
so that thing tracks where they are at all times when you connect it to the pc?
or can you see it while they are walking?
i havnt tried looking for self employed leafletters but i can imagine it cant be that easy
and you are even getting invoiced by them at £6 an hour sounds like you got yourself a couple of hard working decent guys ,
It tracks them and stores the data inside itself. When they attach it to their PC to charge it they download the tracking file and send it to me with their invoice for hours worked. I check a sample of their tracks against invoices and know that I'm not being ripped.
They both love the work. One's a drummer who loves that he can just decide to go out and earn £24 for a walk and the other's a mum who said she was bored witless at home and now loves going out to walk.
My Gumtree ad got so many replies that I had to take it off after two days as I was being flooded with emails. And that's in a city with very low unemployment.
Vin
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also m8t dropping over 20k in leaflets dont you find it hard to cover areas?
for example say you wanted to hit a certain pstcode with over 100 streets how do they stay on top of that?
I gave them both a city A-Z and they just keep track with a marker pen of the streets they have done. I give them an area to do and they work it through at whatever pace suits them then call me for the next area. I love the steady drip of work that this brings in.
Employing your own also means you can describe the types of places you want done, so for my business they don't do blocks of flats or long rows of terraces. Means my leaflets go where I want them to.
Now if I wanted to do more, I send them out with a local directory thingy that gets delivered every month - I can do up to 34,000 at a pop that way but I don't like the flood of work that hits; however once I have a franchisee on I'll be doing it.
I'm trying to get a friend of the wife's to set up leafletting in the way I do it; there'd be such demand for honesty in eaflet delivery services. I really have researched and I've found some real scammers out there. I like my way but there is some hassle attached.
Vin
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and that file they download and email to you cant be doctored?
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are you able to take a picture using print screen and post it up here so we can see what it looks like?
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spoke to a leafletter tother week, hes paid direct by a leafletting firm 50 quid for each shift of 1000 leaflets,says starts 0730 finishes about 2 - 3.30
the part i dont believe is that he delivers the full 1000 each day . nobody could do that amount day in day out ,so the firm or him must be binning them
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maplan sold out try this for tracker.
e bay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GPS-Tracker-Tracking-Data-Logger-Bluetooth-/320833721594?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_GPSSystems_GPSSystems&hash=item4ab32e14fa#ht_1043wt_1037:
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IS THERE ANY SOFTWARE/WEBSITE FOR SEEING HOW MANY HOUSES PER STREET ???
NOT BEING LAZY HERE JUST SEEING IF YOU PREPARE FULLY ?
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Bob what if he is also delivering another 2 leaflets as well, thats £150 a day for 1000 homes delivered too!! rain or shine!!!! 1000 a day is easy believe me i know!!!!!
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are you able to take a picture using print screen and post it up here so we can see what it looks like?
Work PC switched off - will try to remember to do it tomorrow.
Vin
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are you able to take a picture using print screen and post it up here so we can see what it looks like?
Work PC switched off - will try to remember to do it tomorrow.
Vin
cheers ,infact i just spoke to a self employed leafletter the other day he said he wants £30 per thousand and will do 1.5k a day so thats £45 ill mention this gps thing to be sent with the invoice. looking forward to see that picture!
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My business is built entirely on leaflets. If I drop 225 I get a customer (not a call). Mine contain a price, so almost every call is a customer, as they have already got over that hurdle. So, for me to get 100 customers costs 22,500 leaflets.
Ref delivery, I was sick of lying delivery companies (to hear more drop me an email), so I placed an ad on Gumtree for self-employed leafletters at £6 an hour. I got hundreds of responses and chose the two who had the gumption to look up my phone number and call. They carry a tracker so I know (1) the hours they have been out and (2) the streets they did (you can actually see their tracks up and down garden paths on Google Earth so you know they aren't just going for a stroll). They drift about doing the hours that suit them but if I wanted more customers I'd just up the pressure a bit and get a handful going. I'm pretty stuffed full at the mo so I don't need them going at it full-tilt.
They deliver around 120 an hour, so 5p each. My leaflets are just under 3p, so 8p x 225 = £18.00 for a self-qualified customer. I think that's an absolute bargain. £18 each for your 100 customers will be £1,800. You simply can't avoid the mathematical truth in there, I'm afraid.
As for waiting for the phone to ring, I get about 25% within a week, 25% second week, 25% third week and then the rest over the next year or so. (The exact numbers are a handful of % different but near enough).
So, 20,000 leaflets will be whatever you pay plus £1,000 delivery and at my rate of response would get you 89 customers.
Hope that helps,
Vin
fair play some ones done theres maths nice figures mate ive just ordered 30,000 and want these going out over next 8 weeks then another 30,000
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Good posts from Vin-well informed on his business activity
I combine the two, if I'm out knocking I always take a wad of leaflets for the'not ins' or even if they got a cleaner, still leave them a leaflet coz you never know( picked up a £25 job recently coz their regular guy missed a bay and couldn't be arsed to call back and do it)
If I'm honest -I prefer canvassing but it may be the way I do it. I absolutely qualify every potential customer so they know exactly what's involved and so my drop out rate is very low
It's horses for courses but would like an update from Lee please? :)
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are you able to take a picture using print screen and post it up here so we can see what it looks like?
Work PC switched off - will try to remember to do it tomorrow.
Vin
cheers ,infact i just spoke to a self employed leafletter the other day he said he wants £30 per thousand and will do 1.5k a day so thats £45 ill mention this gps thing to be sent with the invoice. looking forward to see that picture!
Be VERY wary of someone claiming to do 1.5k a day. Week in, week out, my guys average 120 an hour over all types of properties. 1,500 a day would be over 12 hours' work and sounds a little suspicious.
Vin (Still on wrong PC)
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are you able to take a picture using print screen and post it up here so we can see what it looks like?
Work PC switched off - will try to remember to do it tomorrow.
Vin
cheers ,infact i just spoke to a self employed leafletter the other day he said he wants £30 per thousand and will do 1.5k a day so thats £45 ill mention this gps thing to be sent with the invoice. looking forward to see that picture!
Be VERY wary of someone claiming to do 1.5k a day. Week in, week out, my guys average 120 an hour over all types of properties. 1,500 a day would be over 12 hours' work and sounds a little suspicious.
Vin (Still on wrong PC)
fair comment what i might do is watch him for the first 3 hours and he wont know i am.,
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It's here:
http://img862.image%shack.us/img862/7316/trackeroutput.jpg (take out the % between the words image and shack- for reasons I can't understand, this forum censors the site's name)
Vin
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are you able to take a picture using print screen and post it up here so we can see what it looks like?
Work PC switched off - will try to remember to do it tomorrow.
Vin
cheers ,infact i just spoke to a self employed leafletter the other day he said he wants £30 per thousand and will do 1.5k a day so thats £45 ill mention this gps thing to be sent with the invoice. looking forward to see that picture!
Be VERY wary of someone claiming to do 1.5k a day. Week in, week out, my guys average 120 an hour over all types of properties. 1,500 a day would be over 12 hours' work and sounds a little suspicious.
Vin (Still on wrong PC)
fair comment what i might do is watch him for the first 3 hours and he wont know i am.,
dont watch the first 3 hours, better the last couple !
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It's here:
http://img862.image%shack.us/img862/7316/trackeroutput.jpg (take out the % between the words image and shack- for reasons I can't understand, this forum censors the site's name)
Vin
thats amazing so u have some software that you got with it where u can zoom in and see in even better detail?
are the different colours different days?
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First comment - Perfect Windows - Perfect comment. Well done. if you can turn your art into a science then you're on the road to happiness and success (and maybe already arrived :) )
Secondly, leafleting. Speaking as someone who's had his hand bitten by a few dogs (from sticking it through the letterbox) I'm surprised that the house type hasn't been mentioned.
100 Leaflets on a terraced street takes 30 mins. 100 on Millionaires Row could take 4 hours.
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It's here:
http://img862.image%shack.us/img862/7316/trackeroutput.jpg (take out the % between the words image and shack- for reasons I can't understand, this forum censors the site's name)
Vin
Vin, they missed my old man at the end of Barnsland!! sack 'em.
:o
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My business is built entirely on leaflets. If I drop 225 I get a customer (not a call). Mine contain a price, so almost every call is a customer, as they have already got over that hurdle. So, for me to get 100 customers costs 22,500 leaflets.
Ref delivery, I was sick of lying delivery companies (to hear more drop me an email), so I placed an ad on Gumtree for self-employed leafletters at £6 an hour. I got hundreds of responses and chose the two who had the gumption to look up my phone number and call. They carry a tracker so I know (1) the hours they have been out and (2) the streets they did (you can actually see their tracks up and down garden paths on Google Earth so you know they aren't just going for a stroll). They drift about doing the hours that suit them but if I wanted more customers I'd just up the pressure a bit and get a handful going. I'm pretty stuffed full at the mo so I don't need them going at it full-tilt.
They deliver around 120 an hour, so 5p each. My leaflets are just under 3p, so 8p x 225 = £18.00 for a self-qualified customer. I think that's an absolute bargain. £18 each for your 100 customers will be £1,800. You simply can't avoid the mathematical truth in there, I'm afraid.
As for waiting for the phone to ring, I get about 25% within a week, 25% second week, 25% third week and then the rest over the next year or so. (The exact numbers are a handful of % different but near enough).
So, 20,000 leaflets will be whatever you pay plus £1,000 delivery and at my rate of response would get you 89 customers.
Hope that helps,
Vin
absolute quality post m8
How bad were the companies mate? the issue of trust is a tough one for me but till now have just had to factor in 10-20% getting lost in transit. I have a minimum % rate and have always got that till recently. Just pulled the trigger on 100k with a company we have used for a few years but the rate has dropped considerably since the last run. Dropped 250k last year and done ok. First 50k this year is disgraceful. Trying to figure out if its the climate or if im gonna go the tracker route. Tracker route still works out more expensive imo but you know exactly what you are paying for so you can take the hit if you so wish.
how did you "prove" you were getting mugged off. Gonna be dumping 250 this summer so would be interested in your experience.
Regards
BVC.
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[/quote]
How bad were the companies mate? the issue of trust is a tough one for me but till now have just had to factor in 10-20% getting lost in transit. I have a minimum % rate and have always got that till recently. Just pulled the trigger on 100k with a company we have used for a few years but the rate has dropped considerably since the last run. Dropped 250k last year and done ok. First 50k this year is disgraceful. Trying to figure out if its the climate or if im gonna go the tracker route. Tracker route still works out more expensive imo but you know exactly what you are paying for so you can take the hit if you so wish.
how did you "prove" you were getting mugged off. Gonna be dumping 250 this summer so would be interested in your experience.
Regards
BVC.
[/quote]
in my opinion, if it works out cheaper using a company to drop leaflets, than paying your own guys... the company are not legitimate.
you know for a fact that on average a leafleter will drop on average just over 100 leafltets/hour. so if you pay them min wage that £60 per thousand leaflets. if a company is quoting cheaper than this, and many of them will, they are pulling as fast one somewhere. there's no way to make leafleting more efficient.. other than getting your leafleters to run.. and on min wage they aint gonna be running for you!
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......just a guess on my part but I think leaflettng-companies drop leaflets from two or three businesses in one go....I've steered clear of them (as they were suspiciously cheap) but tried getting a local lad to drop leaflets along with the local paper....not a single call....I don't think it gets the attention you require when delivered with other material.....like the pizza/kebab leaflets....they just hit the recycling bin without a second thought (unless I'm hungry)
Also would add the "foothold effect" is significant (I'm embarking on a 50k drop leaflet only drop (limited canvassing) which is going well) what I would price in is the neighbours you get as a result of getting one customer from the leaflet, I got a call this week, nice little estate, picked up four neighbours on the first clean.....those deals should be priced in to the economic return of the leaflets, no?. ;D ;D ;D
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......just a guess on my part but I think leaflettng-companies drop leaflets from two or three businesses in one go....I've steered clear of them (as they were suspiciously cheap) but tried getting a local lad to drop leaflets along with the local paper....not a single call....I don't think it gets the attention you require when delivered with other material.....like the pizza/kebab leaflets....they just hit the recycling bin without a second thought (unless I'm hungry)
Also would add the "foothold effect" is significant (I'm embarking on a 50k drop leaflet only drop (limited canvassing) which is going well) what I would price in is the neighbours you get as a result of getting one customer from the leaflet, I got a call this week, nice little estate, picked up four neighbours on the first clean.....those deals should be priced in to the economic return of the leaflets, no?. ;D ;D ;D
leafleting companies do all sorts of things. for a start they immediately say that some thing like only 90 % of houses will be leafleted out of the areas youve agreed.
some of them are plain rip offs, but there are good ones out there too. another option is the royal mail distribution, but your leaflets go in with the post. you will still get a response tho, even then
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The flyers go out with 3 or 4 others. Maybe im on my own but I flick through whats delivered just to see if there is anything of use to me. I make that about 100 - 120 an hour so It should work from a financial perspective for the company.
I have been happy with the return till now. Just wondering if anyone else had experience a significant drop in % rate return. I reckon there are double the wcs in my area since last year so should not be suprised there is less work about. what do you reckon.
BVC.