Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: BartG on April 10, 2012, 10:54:03 pm
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Hello guys !
Recently bought a car and ladders for a startup, and I am concerned a bit whether I can ' drive around with a ladder on ' not having a 'business' policy ..
It clearly says on my policy documents " Excludes use for business purposes, but what exactly does it mean?
Lets say I've got two jobs this week, no jobs next week and 3 jobs week after. Can I in that case transport a ladder on my car's roof on normal sd&p policy or I'm not covered?
I know the best thing would be upgrade to business one but I have 0 years NCB and just simply can't afford it at the moment.
Thanks !
Bart
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Hello guys !
Recently bought a car and ladders for a startup, and I am concerned a bit whether I can ' drive around with a ladder on ' not having a 'business' policy ..
It clearly says on my policy documents " Excludes use for business purposes, but what exactly does it mean?
Lets say I've got two jobs this week, no jobs next week and 3 jobs week after. Can I in that case transport a ladder on my car's roof on normal sd&p policy or I'm not covered?
I know the best thing would be upgrade to business one but I have 0 years NCB and just simply can't afford it at the moment.
Thanks !
Bart
You can't use it for business! if you have an accident, your insurance gonna ask you why you had a ladder,bucket and the rest of your window cleaning kit in your car? you won't get cover!
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Right, thats fair enough, but I'm curious if a few irregular cleans a month ( just starting up and have ONE customer so far ;-) )can be considered by insurance company as a business. I would obviously upgrade, once I can afford it !
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Ask your insurance, best thing to do!
By the way, welcome on this forum and good luck! ;)
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It's not for business use - regardless of whether it's a 'startup' business, 'having a tough time' business, 'I'm only doing it on my day off' business, or even a 'it's only a bit of beer money' business.
As mentioned, if you have to make a claim, there's a very good chance it will be turned down - and you are liable for prosecution.
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Also, if you're registered as self employed, the insurance company will find that out and if you only have the one vehicle......
Having said that, maybe when you had the accident you were on the way to a friends house to clean his windows for nothing and just as a favour because he's your mate?
Dunno. ???
I wouldn't risk it now but in the past...... ::) (the rolley eyes isn't working)
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JUst use the car and ignore all the do gooders.Many have before you and many will after you.
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for a car you dont need business insurance you just need to ask your insurer to change a few details so the car will be used for social ,domestic and business use . this could increase your premium but it will be far cheaper than been prosecution and a possible criminal record plus you will get your insurance cancelled and may not get insured again with any kind of insurance . MIKE
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Have you phone your insurance company for a price shouldnt be that much more i pay about £55 a month for fully comp with business cover .
Ive had a bump before while window cleaning on just normal insurance and they wanted to know everything
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i found business use car insurance was not anymore than ordinary car insurance when i was using a car
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Like a few have said, call your insurance.
Generally it doesn't make a difference but the roof rack might put it up a bit. If you don't tell them and you have a bump you won't be covered.
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It doesn't usually cost any more to add business mileage. On the price comparison sites they usually ask you how many miles you cover per annum including business. When I added it to my last policy it cost me nothing but then I am only paying about £200 a year.
If it says no business use that's what it means.
Interestingly if you have a van or pick up and a customer offers to pay you a £10 to take something to the tip for them then you also have invalidated your insurance unless you have also selected ' carriage of goods for hire or reward. '
Of course there's nothing stopping you doing a favour and then the customer offering to cover your fuel......
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Thanks for all your valuable advice,
I rung up my insurance and what they said they can not cover my ' business ' due to some reason, so I canceled it and get a policy from tescos :)
Under my circumstances it's 1700 a year ( sic!) but I've got now business use class 1 and it was only like 200 a year more, in sum not that bad !
Thanks again, I'm of canvass now :D
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old thread i know guys but i have an issue with insurance
some ******** decided he was gunna reverse into me and insurance has decided they will repair my vehicle after almost a week of not having a vehicle because ***** is denying liability
my main issue is they have decided i can have a courtesy car but they wont give me a courtesy that has roof racks etc and i wont be covered to put roof racks on it
apparently i have business use class 1 and they are saying it doesnt cover roof racks i should have business class 3?
even though my policy clearly says used in connection with drivers business and travel etc and they are aware that im a window cleaner
they wont provide me with a hire car unless i prove the other driver was at fault and i have to wait for the shop it happened nr to go through there cctv to find the incident has anyone had this issue before and what would you reccomend i do
cant go to work until i have a replacement vehicle
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Even if you had van you would not get a courtesy van with a roof rack as most insurance companys use a local hire company which dont fit roof racks to vans or cars .
I had a Suzuki grand vitara when using wfp trolley and my courtesy vehicle was a chevrolet matiz i managed to force 8 containers in and the trolley and pole .
Sorry mate but you aint got a hope of a motor with a roof rack .
Ring local hire companies to see what they have got and pay for it yourself otherwise you will be out of work for weeks . Mike
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David why did it take so long are you not fully comp.
If you are, your own insurance will fix your vehicle and claim it back.
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yes i am fully comp
they had to get the estimate from the garage then decide if they are fixing my vehicle which they have now decided they are going to do its the garage that is fixing my vehicle that is providing the courtesy car but admiral is saying they dont have to provide a vehicle that covers the carriage of ladders or something
i sent all the information relating to the crash but i feel im basically being told i have to provide all the evidence to prove he reversed into me which is taking time getting responses from shops etc in the area to get cctv evidence
wouldnt have been an issue if the ***** had admitted liability but as hes saying i drove into him i have to prove otherwise
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Is leaving your ladders at customers' houses not an option?
If not, hire or buy one for the courtesy car, depending on the cost, of course.
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yes i am fully compthey had to get the estimate from the garage then decide if they are fixing my vehicle which they have now decided they are going to do its the garage that is fixing my vehicle that is providing the courtesy car but admiral is saying they dont have to provide a vehicle that covers the carriage of ladders or something
i sent all the information relating to the crash but i feel im basically being told i have to provide all the evidence to prove he reversed into me which is taking time getting responses from shops etc in the area to get cctv evidence
wouldnt have been an issue if the ***** had admitted liability but as hes saying i drove into him i have to prove otherwise
That's very unusual that the insurance company are expecting you to provide cctv evidence?
And being fully comp your vehicle should be repaired without any hassles, regardless of if it was your fault or other drivers fault.
The last couple of accidents i've been involved in the last few years (not my fault) I had the hire company ring me up that day and van was delivered next day.
Almost as if they could not get here quick enough.
Maybe you should consider trying another insurance company next time who will treat you better.
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yup ive googled issues with admiral and many have bad experiences
ive basically had there crappy legal company telling me they wont give like for like until they hear back from the other insurance company on liability or until i can prove liability which then means i can get a hire car
the voice recordings i made of the guy admitting liability apparently cant be used!!!!
yet the shops cctv can
the only vehicle they will provide is one from there garage which is is a category a vehicle like a corsa or something which wont have racks and is provided by the garage not admiral
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im still waiting for the shop to actually go through there cctv and then pass it onto me so until that is sorted im basically stuck
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im still waiting for the shop to actually go through there cctv and then pass it onto me so until that is sorted im basically stuck
I would go down there and move them on a bit.
Even if it meant slipping them a few quid to get the evidence you need.
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My van died in october so rather than rushing into buying one i hired a van for a month, you can claim 100% of the money against tax.
if you go down this route get a price for the week and a month, because the monthly rate was only just over the price for 2 weeks.
hope you get this sorted mate.
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well i recieved a phone call off the insurance this evening saying they wouldnt be continuing with the policy as i have class 1 business use and apparently i need class 3?
ive sent them towards my dads direction with the phone call as hes the one who took the policy out im really panicking now as i think they where trying to say they wouldnt be paying for the repairs on the car?
anyone have any ideas on this or am i basically knackered :'(
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Feel for you mate , But providing you or your dad has provided the correct information you should not have any problems mate . Mike
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yup they was definately informed when we took out the policy that i was a window cleaner (just off job description it shows carrying ladders) and i used the vehicle to carry ladders etc and travel to and from work with it
http://www.admiral.com/car-insurance/motoring-advice/car-insurance-buyers-guide/which-class-of-use.php that was what i found on there website regarding class of use etc
and limitations as to use are
social,domestic and pleasure and travel between home and permanent place of business and use in connection with this drivers business
pretty sure that as my rounds are permanent and also houses don't move they would be permanent places of business :)
ive left my dad to deal with it and phone them back as far as i was aware class 3 was for carrying goods that i was selling as its clearly not the case im hoping he can quote them legally where they stand
if not ill have to phone insurance ombudsman and also take the case and relevant documents down to a solicitor
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Surely the broker should tell you what class of insurance you require?
When I phone for a quote I give them the details and tell them the van is used solely for business use and trust that they give me the correct policy.
Sounds to me that if you did give the correct information to them before taking out the policy they have either cocked up the admin or they are just trying to wriggle out of upholding the claim.
If you are in the right you should take the matter further.
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im currently on the phone to admiral getting them to define the policy useage to me and send me all of the information via email
indian call centre staff have there uses
im going to forward all of this information onto the insurance ombudsman in the morning and so far they are clearly in the wrong
by there definitions my policy contains the following
for regualr business use too different places of work more than 2 times per week
there is also no restrictions on business usage
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as the claim goes they are honouring the claim and my policy wont be cancelled for 7 days hopefully my car will be fixed by then - (irrelevant if it is or isnt i'm still not happy)
Im forwarding all the information onto the insurance ombudsman first thing in the morning so hopefully something will come of it
it will also cost me extra money with another policy as i will also need to declare the accident even though i wasn't at fault so will need to see how much its going to cost,
so far looking at the comparison websites im looking at about an extra 250 - 300 pounds per year
with a bit of luck the insurance ombudsman will force them to continue the policy at least till all issues with the accident etc are resolved
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David I think you do need class 3 insurance to clean windows.
It includes what is known as commerical traveling.
Which means Visits to customers.
Google class 3 insurance for info.
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Business use: Class 1
This will cover the vehicle in connection with your job, such as driving to different sites away from your place of work. It may also cover a spouse for the business use, but not another named driver – so be sure to check the insurer’s wording. It will exclude commercial use (such as delivery of light goods) and selling (such as door-to-door). All other drivers on the policy get social, domestic, pleasure and commuting use as shown above.
Business use: Class 2
There are a number of variations of Class 2 depending on the insurance provider. The policy will usually cover both the policyholder and a named driver for the business use, although some insurers may stipulate that the two must work in the same occupation. Class 2 will still exclude commercial use and selling.
Business use: Class 3
This will provide business cover for the transportation of light goods (e.g. meal or flower delivery), and some selling purposes (such as door-to-door sales).
surely ladder use would be in connection with my job?
i did phone them and go through the policy when i took the policy out surely the onus would be on them to let me know what policy i actually need?
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ok so a little update while ive been sat at home twiddling my phones ive been getting quotes from various car insurance sites and guess who comes up as one of my quotes
bell (who happen to be another of admirals companys) so i phone the nice chappy from admiral who goes through the policy details etc with me based on the quote and its definately covered for business use etc so i ask him about carrying ladders on the vehicle and wether that is covered on the policy or not as i need to be doubly sure (just innocently checking ::))
its definately covered for that he says so i then proceed to ask him what the class of business use is and its only class 1 business use :)
needless to say i have the quote reference no of this quote plus the time and date and the name of the chap (calls are recorded for training purposes you know) for when the manager phones me about my impending doomed policy and it being on the wrong class of useage
wondering how hes going to try and fob it off with hard evidence of misselling policys and im wondering exactly how the fsa is going to deal with the situation when i phone them back with this quote reference no to add to my list of complaints :)
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You will always get some idiot on the end of a phone who gets it wrong i am pretty sure i had class 1 business use and never had any problems with claiming in the past .
IMO comparision websites are a waste of time i have now gone back back to using a broker after many years as i know i will get the cover i need and be certain i am getting the correct cover . Mike
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Did you ask him did it cover window cleaning?
Some of the insurance companies wouldnt even give me a quote
once I mentioned window cleaning.
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yes it definately covered window cleaning
its been 3 days and ive made countless phone calls to them adn am still awaiting a phone call back
they have told me that many different stories now its getting ridiculous
the last phone call tried telling me as i use my vehicle for actual cleaning windows im not insured?
like wtf im sure i drive my car into someones garden and my car has a crane attached to it to get to the windows
my policy covers me for travelling to different sites which is what it is used for......... i dont use reach and pole system so car isnt used for the actual business activity just to get me there
i park up, take the ladders off and clean houses when im finished i put the ladders on the car and go home hence going from site to site........... still wating for them to phone me back now after 3 days the plus sde is they should have received a letter from the fsa by now might hopefully make them poop a brick
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Can you not hire or purchase a ladder rack then claim the cost back as uninsured losses from the other guys insurance?