Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: hilland on April 02, 2012, 05:23:37 pm
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I recently changed over to WFP ( which I love), and my tap water is 89ppm. I bought a DI vesel ( after advice from great people on here). The water was only staying pure for about 1000 litres and I was going through a heck of amount of resin. After getting more advice I bought a second DI vessel so my tap water travelled through two vessels , as I was told it would make the water purer for longer. After about ten days my water was still reading pure 000ppm , but the first vessel started reading 1 - 2 ppm , the following day it raised to 20ppm , then next day 60ppm and today I measured it and it is reading 105ppm. I then measured my tap water and its the same as usual 80 ish ppm. How can water from my tap read that and then goes through a 11 litre resin vessel( which was only changed three weeks ag) and reads 105 ppm, can some one help me. Initially I contacted Window Cleaning Warehouse ( where I bought the vessel) and they said it should be lasting longer than that. I have a fancy there is something wrong with my first vessel, what do you guys think, cheers Ted
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Shake your first resin vessel, I have read that this makes a difference.
I was very dubious about doing it but I did and it works, don't ask me why.
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Although low (I am jealous as mine is 600tds) its not low enough to just di imo. Get an ro and it will last months if not longer. :)
Wouldnt put more than 20tds through resin.
BVC.
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sounds like something wrong but what, all i could say is try everything double check all connectors in and outs, swap the bottles round, try the other bottle on its own, if its right think about a merlin, more watse water but less resin
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Its the tap water reading 89 and coming out of Di vessel reading 105 that stuns me
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I'll sort you Hilly- 8 years of twin DI usage here! ;D
Fisrt- do you fill your tank "through" the DI's so your tank holds pure or do you fill tank with tap water?
Second- what resin brand are you using?
Third- are you sure you have got both DI's flow going through them in the "correct" direction?
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Its the tap water reading 89 and coming out of Di vessel reading 105 that stuns me
It does sound odd but it's not unheard of. Don't know how true this is but someone once said to me that once resin is spent, the water can start absorbing impurities from it - which could explain what is happening to you. Also, are you taking the TDS reading straight after the water has started flowing. Try another reading once the water has been running for a while through the vessel.
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the way I do it is .... The water comes out of my outside tap , it goes through two Di vessels and then into 25 litre barrels as I use a back pack system , The resin I use ( the only one up to now) is Unger. Defo got the vessels in the correct line . I filled 5 x 25 litre barrels ( which read 000ppm) and then I tested the first vessel which read 105 so it had been working for about an hour as I have the water running as slowly as poss
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what size resin vessels are you using ?
as previously commented, i would personally use an ro to bring down the TDS - you may not even need resin as you should get a TDS between 3 and 6 with an RO
not used unger resin, but sounds like it's saturated and maybe letting impurities back into your water.
once your 1st vessel in line hits 30 TDS you need to empty and refill and make it vessel no.2
shake the vessels regularly as the water 'tracks' through the resin leaving large amounts unused - shaking it
gives more resin a chance to be used and if sticking to di only filling from the mains maybe to quick for the resin
to polish the water try running the water through more slowly - hence the question of whether you fill your
tank with tap water and run the di's on the van as your wfp pump is an ideal speed to polish water
Darran
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the way I do it is .... The water comes out of my outside tap , it goes through two Di vessels and then into 25 litre barrels as I use a back pack system , The resin I use ( the only one up to now) is Unger. Defo got the vessels in the correct line . I filled 5 x 25 litre barrels ( which read 000ppm) and then I tested the first vessel which read 105 so it had been working for about an hour as I have the water running as slowly as poss
My tap TDS is the same as yours & I get at least 11,000ltrs of pure per vessel change (10 ltrs of resin)
Something is wrong, that's for sure. This is my advice-
First make sure that both vessels are installed & working correctly i.e. are the riser tubes fully inserted in to the head unit past the sealing "o" ring?
Now, I don't know at what stage you have introduced the "second" vessel but this is what to do-
If the vessels are installed & working correctly then remove the one reading 108ppm. Use just the one which is reading 000ppm. We'll call the removed (108ppm) vessel No-1 & the in-use (000ppm) vessel no-2.
So, when vessel 2 starts reading 003/004ppm you need to fill vessel 1 with fresh resin & add it back into the system. Now vessel 2 (003/004ppm) needs to be pre-filtering vessel 1 (fresh resin). The filtering line should now read tap>vessel 2>vessel 1>barrels. Keep this cycle going the same way from now on. My older resin vessel never reaches my tap water tds before the newer resin needs changing anyway- so mine would never get to 108ppm, it usually gets to about 50/60ppm when the newest resin gets to 002/003ppm & this is when I change.
Also, I would get some Tulsion MB115 resin. Unger are well known for rebadging other products with their own name & your resin sounds very like Purolite MB400 - which is crap!!
Hope that helps a little & you're are right to have a slow flow through the vessels, resin works much better that way. ;)
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I am also assuming BOTH your vessels are 11ltr?
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I am also assuming BOTH your vessels are 11ltr?
Yep both 11litre , one quite expensive from WCW ( which is the one think is at fault) and the other from ebay for 20 odd kwid
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I am also assuming BOTH your vessels are 11ltr?
Yep both 11litre , one quite expensive from WCW ( which is the one think is at fault) and the other from ebay for 20 odd kwid
I also have two 11ltr & also from two different places! ;D
One would filter water with a flow rate in either direction but the other absolutely would not!
One tip I will give you- fill your vessels with resin to approx 4/5ths or just as the vessel begins to narrow in (shoulder). Then fill with water BEFORE you put the riser tube & head back in- this makes the tube go in much easier & less likely to pull out of the head when you move it back & forth to line it up.
Can't emphasise enough the Tulsion resin either. ;) Dowex MB50 is also very good.
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I am also assuming BOTH your vessels are 11ltr?
Yep both 11litre , one quite expensive from WCW ( which is the one think is at fault) and the other from ebay for 20 odd kwid
I also have two 11ltr & also from two different places! ;D
One would filter water with a flow rate in either direction but the other absolutely would not!
One tip I will give you- fill your vessels with resin to approx 4/5ths or just as the vessel begins to narrow in (shoulder). Then fill with water BEFORE you put the riser tube & head back in- this makes the tube go in much easier & less likely to pull out of the head when you move it back & forth to line it up.
Can't emphasise enough the Tulsion resin either. ;) Dowex MB50 is also very good.
cheers mate
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Its the tap water reading 89 and coming out of Di vessel reading 105 that stuns me
you must have the connections the wrong way round, also what resin are you using
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Its the tap water reading 89 and coming out of Di vessel reading 105 that stuns me
you must have the connections the wrong way round, also what resin are you using
no mate , connections correct , unger resin
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wizkid - you are not right ;D
only kidding ! as i posted before i'd get an RO
i would slightly disagree with the resin statement with regard that you are not disposing off resin when it hits 10 ppm
and putting in fresh the resin ( as you say ) then takes on the brunt of the water flow and tds but is used to approx
30 tds so you are saving on resin - small point i know
Darran
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I find your experiences with your DI sounds right and that your first Di will rise quicker is also right as its doing more of the work .As far as I believe using 2 di will not save resin as all you are doing is spreading the load over two which one will normally do. Two di will stop the quick rise in in TDs but not reduce the costs. I would say if your tds is over 30 I would rather use a R O and polish with a di if need be. The D I story can about with having to lay out cash on both R O and D I .I know when my R O which produces at 30 tds and up, I will change my membranes as its just not economical using di on this level costs wise.( 30 TDS)
I know when the TDS starts rising its does very quick as you have found.
Resin cost out weigh the cost of buying an R O so if it was me that would be on my buy list.There will be guys saying I am not right but believe you will find this out in time. Good luck
Well Wizzy
You couldn't be more wrong! ;D
That just indicates that you don't understand the twin DI process at all.
Trust me, 8 years of DI only & all kinds of resin brands etc, I have easily doubled my resin life by the advise I've given above. ;)
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I find your experiences with your DI sounds right and that your first Di will rise quicker is also right as its doing more of the work .As far as I believe using 2 di will not save resin as all you are doing is spreading the load over two which one will normally do. Two di will stop the quick rise in in TDs but not reduce the costs. I would say if your tds is over 30 I would rather use a R O and polish with a di if need be. The D I story can about with having to lay out cash on both R O and D I .I know when my R O which produces at 30 tds and up, I will change my membranes as its just not economical using di on this level costs wise.( 30 TDS)
I know when the TDS starts rising its does very quick as you have found.
Resin cost out weigh the cost of buying an R O so if it was me that would be on my buy list.There will be guys saying I am not right but believe you will find this out in time. Good luck
Well Wizzy
You couldn't be more wrong! ;D
That just indicates that you don't understand the twin DI process at all.
Trust me, 8 years of DI only & all kinds of resin brands etc, I have easily doubled my resin life by the advise I've given above. ;)
He has got a degree from Stella-Bosch University don't you know? ;D
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I find your experiences with your DI sounds right and that your first Di will rise quicker is also right as its doing more of the work .As far as I believe using 2 di will not save resin as all you are doing is spreading the load over two which one will normally do. Two di will stop the quick rise in in TDs but not reduce the costs. I would say if your tds is over 30 I would rather use a R O and polish with a di if need be. The D I story can about with having to lay out cash on both R O and D I .I know when my R O which produces at 30 tds and up, I will change my membranes as its just not economical using di on this level costs wise.( 30 TDS)
I know when the TDS starts rising its does very quick as you have found.
Resin cost out weigh the cost of buying an R O so if it was me that would be on my buy list.There will be guys saying I am not right but believe you will find this out in time. Good luck
Well Wizzy
You couldn't be more wrong! ;D
That just indicates that you don't understand the twin DI process at all.
Trust me, 8 years of DI only & all kinds of resin brands etc, I have easily doubled my resin life by the advise I've given above. ;)
He has got a degree from Stella-Bosch University don't you know? ;D
Yep, but he's missing the other 359 on this occasion! ;D
Poor Wizkid, he's not even here to defend :P
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The resin "going off" VERY quickly is reminiscent of Purolite! I reckon the Unger is just Purolite or very similar.
Resin like this is the worst you can have, especially for a twin DI system- as they rely on the older resin staying low in TDS for as long as possible.
Purolite goes off the scale within a day. Tulsion holds a low TDS for ages once IT starts to go off.
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So do you think its the crap ( unger) resin that has made my first vessel read higher than my tap water
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the way I do it is .... The water comes out of my outside tap , it goes through two Di vessels and then into 25 litre barrels as I use a back pack system , The resin I use ( the only one up to now) is Unger. Defo got the vessels in the correct line . I filled 5 x 25 litre barrels ( which read 000ppm) and then I tested the first vessel which read 105 so it had been working for about an hour as I have the water running as slowly as poss
you got the hoses on in and out the right way?
Sounds simple but could be wrong
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So do you think its the crap ( unger) resin that has made my first vessel read higher than my tap water
aye get some good resin from daqua.
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The resin "going off" VERY quickly is reminiscent of Purolite! I reckon the Unger is just Purolite or very similar.
Resin like this is the worst you can have, especially for a twin DI system- as they rely on the older resin staying low in TDS for as long as possible.
Purolite goes off the scale within a day. Tulsion holds a low TDS for ages once IT starts to go off.
yes , this unger resin went over the top rapidly. When I bought my first resin I hadnt a clue which to buy and I didnt even ask as I bought the vessel from Window Cleaning Warehouse they said do yoiu need resin to which I replied yes and thats what they sent me , I see now that there Unger resin has been reduced by £5 per 25 litre bag
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I recently bought a cheap DI vessel from e-Bay to test the difference between it and an expensive DI vessel I got from WCW which I am very un immpressed with. To cut a long story short the cheap system has now out lasted the expensive one by well over two weeks and it is still going well , where as the expensive one not only lasted less than half the time but it also startted turning out water which was way higher PPM than my tap water ( as I explained earlier on this post ) . I am now going to get in touch with WCW and ask for my money back... does any one agree that I am doing the correct thing , cheers Ted
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As far as I believe using 2 di will not save resin as all you are doing is spreading the load over two which one will normally do. Two di will stop the quick rise in in TDs but not reduce the costs.
Reasoning for two DIs is:
Let's say the input is TDS020 (the number doesn't matter, really, the argument is the same). Have the DI vessels in series, call them A and B respectively. Once output TDS gets to 001, the resin in vessel A is completely shagged and B is starting to go off. At that point, replace resin in A and reverse the order of the vessels. Now vessel B is still outputting at 001 then 002, then 003, up to 020, but you're still getting value out of that resin as it's extending the life of the resin in vessel A (It's working on lower TDS water until the resin in B is completely saturated).
Compare that to having a single DI vessel: In that case, when TDS = 001, you're slinging it all out rather than getting any further use out of it.
Before anyone jumps in, where I've said TDS 001, the actual level at which you dispose of your resin doesn't matter, the principle is the same. In fact, if you think about it, once you're using two resin vessels, rejigging them at TDS 001 doesn't cost you a penny more in resin than refilling at a TDS of 010, so another benefit is that you can always use completely pure (rather than some arbitrary limit) at no extra cost to you.
I don't think that 2xDI will halve your resin costs but it will certainly cut them significantly.
Vin
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I recently bought a cheap DI vessel from e-Bay to test the difference between it and an expensive DI vessel I got from WCW which I am very un immpressed with. To cut a long story short the cheap system has now out lasted the expensive one by well over two weeks and it is still going well , where as the expensive one not only lasted less than half the time but it also startted turning out water which was way higher PPM than my tap water ( as I explained earlier on this post ) . I am now going to get in touch with WCW and ask for my money back... does any one agree that I am doing the correct thing , cheers Ted
Bump
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I recently bought a cheap DI vessel from e-Bay to test the difference between it and an expensive DI vessel I got from WCW which I am very un immpressed with. To cut a long story short the cheap system has now out lasted the expensive one by well over two weeks and it is still going well , where as the expensive one not only lasted less than half the time but it also startted turning out water which was way higher PPM than my tap water ( as I explained earlier on this post ) . I am now going to get in touch with WCW and ask for my money back... does any one agree that I am doing the correct thing , cheers Ted
Well, if you've done evrything right & the performance is lower than a standard DI vessel then I would say give them a ring at least! After all, they are sold as being more economical than standard vessels.
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go trad ;D