Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on March 24, 2012, 09:09:20 pm
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Enjoy -
http://youtu.be/3ncj5T4p7iQ
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i would if i could login
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PRIVATE VIDEO??????? Can not access it??
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PRIVATE VIDEO??????? Can not access it??
oops sorry - its public now.
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Notice the nightmare orange hose in coils and loops. Try getting around the back of a house with that stuff...
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I would get locked up if I started rocking like that in someones front garden lol!
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anyone else spotted all the problems within this video. :o
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anyone else spotted all the problems within this video. :o
Brushes against bricks, lets scratch those windows
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anyone else spotted all the problems within this video. :o
Brushes against bricks, lets scratch those windows
there's are worse than that from a company that are meant to provide training to others.
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I would get locked up if I started rocking like that in someones front garden lol!
lol
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ill have to give that rocking action a go for a day .rsi do happen .i have a nightmare back after polling for 5 yrs.
have started doing strength exercises which seem to be working .
but be carefull guys.
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I think everyone is guilty of leaning there brush against the odd wall, just give it a clean b4 you use it again.
Great mag by the way Lee! Keep up the good work!
Videos are a great idea to include, When i was first setting up wfp I was clued to youtube for ideas and tips, I think a technique and tips video (other than rocking) section would be good.
:)
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sorry, i was bored senseless and the poles look crap.
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
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ill have to give that rocking action a go for a day .rsi do happen .i have a nightmare back after polling for 5 yrs.
have started doing strength exercises which seem to be working .
but be carefull guys.
You see info is great. Knowledge is power!
;)
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I think everyone is guilty of leaning there brush against the odd wall, just give it a clean b4 you use it again.
Great mag by the way Lee! Keep up the good work!
Videos are a great idea to include, When i was first setting up wfp I was clued to youtube for ideas and tips, I think a technique and tips video (other than rocking) section would be good.
:)
On its way. I got bags of ideas to help everyone :)
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sorry, i was bored senseless and the poles look crap.
Hey Graham. Hopefully the next one you will like :)
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
I must admit I mentioned this to Richard from Ionics. See, when I buy a pole I naturally assume a 21 foot is the actual height. Some companies including Ionics use the height as a marker when holding and count your body height in. Im not too sure why, but well pointed out.
Its important to ask your pole supplier if the height stated is actually the height of the pole.
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
I must admit I mentioned this to Richard from Ionics. See, when I buy a pole I naturally assume a 21 foot is the actual height. Some companies including Ionics use the height as a marker when holding and count your body height in. Im not too sure why, but well pointed out.
Its important to ask your pole supplier if the height stated is actually the height of the pole.
I am :-X
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
I would imagine it breaks the trade description act.
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
I must admit I mentioned this to Richard from Ionics. See, when I buy a pole I naturally assume a 21 foot is the actual height. Some companies including Ionics use the height as a marker when holding and count your body height in. Im not too sure why, but well pointed out.
Its important to ask your pole supplier if the height stated is actually the height of the pole.
I am :-X
But like I said they are not the only company that does that. And Im not too sure why it is like that.
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
I must admit I mentioned this to Richard from Ionics. See, when I buy a pole I naturally assume a 21 foot is the actual height. Some companies including Ionics use the height as a marker when holding and count your body height in. Im not too sure why, but well pointed out.
Its important to ask your pole supplier if the height stated is actually the height of the pole.
I am :-X
But like I said they are not the only company that does that. And Im not too sure why it is like that.
Its obvious Lee they take us for mugs and are mis-selling products and by "they" i mean any company that sells poles this way.
It would be like going to a sweetshop to buy 1/2lb of sweets and getting home and realising the bag weighed 1/8lb.
not the best illustration but its all ive got on a sunday evening after a large chinese.
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I would get locked up if I started rocking like that in someones front garden lol!
This cracked me up ;D
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On the Ionics website they list the length of the pole in feet but it's extended length in metres. So a 32 foot pole extends to 8.54 metres.
8.54 metres is 28 foot and not 32ft.
So you'd be buying a pole that's advertised as 32 foot that's 28 foot long. The reason Ionics give is one thing but to list their poles as X length in feet but with the extended length in metres is to my mind, deception.
If both lengths were given in feet then I'd accept it but as it is.....
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write to watch dog or whatever pishy programme covers this
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anyone else spotted all the problems within this video. Shocked
One I noticed was the guy from Ionics saying not to use your arms, its all in the hip movement... And then straight after using his arms ???
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ditto ;D
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has there been any recorded cases of RSI using poles the reason i ask is i train doing endurance lifting that involves the same action with heavy weights for hundreds of reps the guy who started this way of training has some interesting thoughts on RSI, when he first started training he was advised by a doctor friend that training the way he did would wear out his shoulder joints and cause RSI but his reasoning on the subject was that his shoulders arms and joints etc where made of the same substance as his ankle joints yet your ankle joints dont wear out from walking no matter how many times you use them in fact it can make them stronger so why should his shoulders and arms, he does believe that running are heavy impact movements can effect joints but that isnt the case if using a WFP as it is a smooth action with no impact, this same guy gets up each morning and does upto 1000 sqauts without stopping and yet his knees are still in great shape, by the way he is now 63 years old and has done these actions for well over 30 years, so my question is what really causes RSI and if we arent to use our arms and rock instead then surely if it is the repetitive movement that causes RSI will you not now get RSI in the hips ???
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has there been any recorded cases of RSI using poles the reason i ask is i train doing endurance lifting that involves the same action with heavy weights for hundreds of reps the guy who started this way of training has some interesting thoughts on RSI, when he first started training he was advised by a doctor friend that training the way he did would wear out his shoulder joints and cause RSI but his reasoning on the subject was that his shoulders arms and joints etc where made of the same substance as his ankle joints yet your ankle joints dont wear out from walking no matter how many times you use them in fact it can make them stronger so why should his shoulders and arms, he does believe that running are heavy impact movements can effect joints but that isnt the case if using a WFP as it is a smooth action with no impact, this same guy gets up each morning and does upto 1000 sqauts without stopping and yet his knees are still in great shape, by the way he is now 63 years old and has done these actions for well over 30 years, so my question is what really causes RSI and if we arent to use our arms and rock instead then surely if it is the repetitive movement that causes RSI will you not now get RSI in the hips ???
Great post TP
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has there been any recorded cases of RSI using poles the reason i ask is i train doing endurance lifting that involves the same action with heavy weights for hundreds of reps the guy who started this way of training has some interesting thoughts on RSI, when he first started training he was advised by a doctor friend that training the way he did would wear out his shoulder joints and cause RSI but his reasoning on the subject was that his shoulders arms and joints etc where made of the same substance as his ankle joints yet your ankle joints dont wear out from walking no matter how many times you use them in fact it can make them stronger so why should his shoulders and arms, he does believe that running are heavy impact movements can effect joints but that isnt the case if using a WFP as it is a smooth action with no impact, this same guy gets up each morning and does upto 1000 sqauts without stopping and yet his knees are still in great shape, by the way he is now 63 years old and has done these actions for well over 30 years, so my question is what really causes RSI and if we arent to use our arms and rock instead then surely if it is the repetitive movement that causes RSI will you not now get RSI in the hips ???
Great post TP
I second that ;)
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has there been any recorded cases of RSI using poles the reason i ask is i train doing endurance lifting that involves the same action with heavy weights for hundreds of reps the guy who started this way of training has some interesting thoughts on RSI, when he first started training he was advised by a doctor friend that training the way he did would wear out his shoulder joints and cause RSI but his reasoning on the subject was that his shoulders arms and joints etc where made of the same substance as his ankle joints yet your ankle joints dont wear out from walking no matter how many times you use them in fact it can make them stronger so why should his shoulders and arms, he does believe that running are heavy impact movements can effect joints but that isnt the case if using a WFP as it is a smooth action with no impact, this same guy gets up each morning and does upto 1000 sqauts without stopping and yet his knees are still in great shape, by the way he is now 63 years old and has done these actions for well over 30 years, so my question is what really causes RSI and if we arent to use our arms and rock instead then surely if it is the repetitive movement that causes RSI will you not now get RSI in the hips ???
Very interesting, I smell a good article here. I will look into this. Good post!
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When he kicked the pole at 1.42min I was waiting for it to fall on the customers car.
If I caught any of my lads leaving a pole like that I would not be happy.
Extended, Un secured and on brick work? Not a good idea!
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has there been any recorded cases of RSI using poles the reason i ask is i train doing endurance lifting that involves the same action with heavy weights for hundreds of reps the guy who started this way of training has some interesting thoughts on RSI, when he first started training he was advised by a doctor friend that training the way he did would wear out his shoulder joints and cause RSI but his reasoning on the subject was that his shoulders arms and joints etc where made of the same substance as his ankle joints yet your ankle joints dont wear out from walking no matter how many times you use them in fact it can make them stronger so why should his shoulders and arms, he does believe that running are heavy impact movements can effect joints but that isnt the case if using a WFP as it is a smooth action with no impact, this same guy gets up each morning and does upto 1000 sqauts without stopping and yet his knees are still in great shape, by the way he is now 63 years old and has done these actions for well over 30 years, so my question is what really causes RSI and if we arent to use our arms and rock instead then surely if it is the repetitive movement that causes RSI will you not now get RSI in the hips ???
Very interesting, I smell a good article here. I will look into this. Good post!
lee if you want more info on this i will give you the background of the guy and what he says in his book there could also be an interesting aspect to this training and how it can help window cleaners
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Thats interesting Trevor.
Im surprised that fella you mentioned has not got some joint or cartilage problems from doing 1000 squats a day! Maybe he is an anomaly.
Different movements will affect joints in different ways.
A squatting movement would definately affect the flexation of the hip joint and the knees while putting load strain on the ankles.
But getting back to the movements in wfp there is definately a tendency to use arm movement which I think is natural.
But repeated motion does impact the elbow joint, wrist and to some extent the shoulders.
I would of thought the method shown in the video with Ionics would be quite safe to use on the hips because no flexation of the joint is taking place, you are just shifting weight from one leg to the other.
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cartilage and other soft materials muscle etc do wear and as you get older
things naturally break down excessive use of certain joints will cause you problems
over long periods of time i dont see many 80 yr olds sprinting around.
unfortunately due to the generally sedinatary life styles people have these days
with crap diets and reduced exercise our bodies dont have whats neccessary to keep
the body healthy and pliant for excessive use over long periods of time,hence rsi
injuries in younger and younger people.
best to keep your self fit eat a good a good diet take suppliments as necessary
especially as getting older. i have used the rocking motion a lot since i had joint pain
better to spread the impact of the exercise throughout the whole body than just individual
areas such as elbow shoulder and neck joints,since using this method i no longer have any
issues in these areas
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GPS must be feeling very smug. ;D
Those poles look a pig. Looks like ionics just bought up all the "reach it" poles that the wannabe alan sugars couldnt shift. ;)
BVC.
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GPS must be feeling very smug. ;D
Those poles look a pig. Looks like ionics just bought up all the "reach it" poles that the wannabe alan sugars couldnt shift. ;)
BVC.
Oooooooh you bitch! ;D get to work and no samosa today you fat git.
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has there been any recorded cases of RSI using poles the reason i ask is i train doing endurance lifting that involves the same action with heavy weights for hundreds of reps the guy who started this way of training has some interesting thoughts on RSI, when he first started training he was advised by a doctor friend that training the way he did would wear out his shoulder joints and cause RSI but his reasoning on the subject was that his shoulders arms and joints etc where made of the same substance as his ankle joints yet your ankle joints dont wear out from walking no matter how many times you use them in fact it can make them stronger so why should his shoulders and arms, he does believe that running are heavy impact movements can effect joints but that isnt the case if using a WFP as it is a smooth action with no impact, this same guy gets up each morning and does upto 1000 sqauts without stopping and yet his knees are still in great shape, by the way he is now 63 years old and has done these actions for well over 30 years, so my question is what really causes RSI and if we arent to use our arms and rock instead then surely if it is the repetitive movement that causes RSI will you not now get RSI in the hips ???
Very interesting, I smell a good article here. I will look into this. Good post!
lee if you want more info on this i will give you the background of the guy and what he says in his book there could also be an interesting aspect to this training and how it can help window cleaners
Good idea, lee@windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk ;)
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Degenerative Joint Disease - Symptoms, Treatment and Prevention
http://www.healthscout.com/ency/416/577/main.html
Just waiting for my operations on hand,already had one done and now been diagnosed with it in shoulder joint....caused by repetative actions ...according to diagnosis reports by orthopeadic & rheumatology consultants at colchester hospital.....
Maybe the old guy is a one off(maybe not one but you know what i mean) as the consultants have said that repetative actions in the workplace account for a lot of this type of injury.....
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Degenerative Joint Disease - Symptoms, Treatment and Prevention
http://www.healthscout.com/ency/416/577/main.html
Just waiting for my operations on hand,already had one done and now been diagnosed with it in shoulder joint....caused by repetative actions ...according to diagnosis reports by orthopeadic & rheumatology consultants at colchester hospital.....
Maybe the old guy is a one off(maybe not one but you know what i mean) as the consultants have said that repetative actions in the workplace account for a lot of this type of injury.....
how long have you been window cleaning for ? just interested to see how long it took for your joints to bugger up.
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I have had loads of problems now for nearly 8 years,thats when i started with the pole....but i will not put it all down to wfp as i used to own a cabinet making business and one of my main tasks was to run the spindle moulders which used to vibrate like crazy when i didn't get the blades sharpened....
But the wearing away of the bones has definatley quickened due to working wfp........it obviously doesn't mean that everyone will suffer,we all have differing levels of injury/disease resistance,but mine will degenerate in the future until i have to pack it in,but by having the joints fused and plates put in my arms i hope i can slow the inevitable down a bit.....
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I have had loads of problems now for nearly 8 years,thats when i started with the pole....but i will not put it all down to wfp as i used to own a cabinet making business and one of my main tasks was to run the spindle moulders which used to vibrate like crazy when i didn't get the blades sharpened....
But the wearing away of the bones has definatley quickened due to working wfp........it obviously doesn't mean that everyone will suffer,we all have differing levels of injury/disease resistance,but mine will degenerate in the future until i have to pack it in,but by having the joints fused and plates put in my arms i hope i can slow the inevitable down a bit.....
Aww mate that sounds really bad. And possibly painful??
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how old are you dw?
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Degenerative Joint Disease - Symptoms, Treatment and Prevention
http://www.healthscout.com/ency/416/577/main.html
Just waiting for my operations on hand,already had one done and now been diagnosed with it in shoulder joint....caused by repetative actions ...according to diagnosis reports by orthopeadic & rheumatology consultants at colchester hospital.....
Maybe the old guy is a one off(maybe not one but you know what i mean) as the consultants have said that repetative actions in the workplace account for a lot of this type of injury.....
i am not saying the old guy is correct with what he says ( he would hate being called old as he is fitter than any young man i have met) but it does make sense, we walk every day and our ankle joints dont break down for the majority of us in fact doctors tell us to walk more and our ankles take all our weight so why should our shoulders and arms be any different as they are made of the very same material our ankles are, i know personally after five years of this training my shoulder and arm joints seem to be in the best shape ever and i know lots of others who would say the same, but as said all are different and each should do what they feel is right for them.
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how old are you dw?
47 daz.....
I am what i call a typical example of how a fit bloke (i used to play gridiron in my 20's for top teams here and Australia) can let their health and fitness deteriorate over time by not taking care of themselves.
My general laziness towards fitness has indeed added to my condition (that has been confirmed by a rather sarcastic nurse.. ;D) and i do intend to regain a good level of fitness which may well help my joints in the future.
But the problem for me will be my business.I intended when i started to do this well past retirement,ironically i thought it would be a good way to keep the pennies coming in and to keep fit and healthy.... :-\
Anyway,there are a lot worse than me,some of the poor sods i see at the clinics...well they must just be in constant pain and turmoil.There was a post on here recently about a former wc who had a much more advanced condition than mine...so i should think myself lucky really.
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Hi Trevor, I agree with some of the content of your posts. I am a firm believer in "use it or lose it" and have done high levels of exercise for over twenty five years {now aged 46}. However, one important thing to remember is the ankle was designed {after it evolved} for lots of walking and running. The shoulder is not designed for doing 1000 shoulder presses in one hit for example. It will wear out and then break. The same is true for our elbows when wfping, it is not a natural movement that we can do for hour after hour without getting problems.
I did a block of flats this morning, worked from 08:00 to 14:00 with a thirty minute break. My neck was very sore during the higher windows after a while, not much I can do about that but where possible, I cupped the base of the pole in the right hand and walked or rocked to and fro, much easier on the elbow joints.
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My dads 61 wfp's 4 days a week! not a spot of bother with any joints, He has worked in hard manual labour jobs all his life, 15 years commercial cleaning involving the manual mopping of 1000's of square feet of flooring on a weekly basis (not a machine in sight)
IMO you are what you eat/do
keep fit and active and you should not have any problems with joint pain.
HE DOES NOT ROCK BACK AND FORWARD IN PEOPLES GARDENS ;D
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still dont understand why they call them 21 foot poles or whatever length when they actually are not
I must admit I mentioned this to Richard from Ionics. See, when I buy a pole I naturally assume a 21 foot is the actual height. Some companies including Ionics use the height as a marker when holding and count your body height in. Im not too sure why, but well pointed out.
Its important to ask your pole supplier if the height stated is actually the height of the pole.
yes it is important to ask, because they're snide but you need to know they do that or you wont know to ask will you i got a 31ft off brodex only to find it was only 28ft they did offer to change it if i paid p&p both ways & for the extra length so that was my last dealings with them
dont you think its the suppliers job to make it clear
you dont by a pair of 32 leg jeans only to find they're actually 28 do you nor do you need to ask
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Its important to ask your pole supplier if the height stated is actually the height of the pole.
Is it? Do you ask British sugar and tate and lyle if a 1 kilo bag of sugar is actually one kilo? No, i didn't think so.
If i buy a twenty foot pole and its not 20 foot i'll go to trading standards right after i've sent the pole back.
Maybe i'm being awkward, maybe ts important to do things like ask your barber is he actually going to cut your hair, who knows !!!
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how old are you dw?
47 daz.....
I am what i call a typical example of how a fit bloke.......................
...............has been failed by the NHS !! I've yet to meet anyone with fused joints who has a positive comment about them. Fingers not working as they should etc............
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Hi Trevor, I agree with some of the content of your posts. I am a firm believer in "use it or lose it" and have done high levels of exercise for over twenty five years {now aged 46}. However, one important thing to remember is the ankle was designed {after it evolved} for lots of walking and running. The shoulder is not designed for doing 1000 shoulder presses in one hit for example. It will wear out and then break. The same is true for our elbows when wfping, it is not a natural movement that we can do for hour after hour without getting problems.
I did a block of flats this morning, worked from 08:00 to 14:00 with a thirty minute break. My neck was very sore during the higher windows after a while, not much I can do about that but where possible, I cupped the base of the pole in the right hand and walked or rocked to and fro, much easier on the elbow joints.
sorry Tom but your shoulder is made of the same substance as your ankle and so quite easily can be trained to carry out 1000 lifts on a regular basis without causing injury, history shows that many of our ancestors even in recent history carried out physical tasks with arms and shoulders withoot suffering from RSI, all farm work included heavy lifting of bails of hay and manure with shovels yet i think you weill find it hard to find an old farmer suffering from RSI , all tree fellers in america used heavy axes day in and day out and even with the heavy impact and shock their shoulders where fine, even on the large sailing ships both present and past involved pulling and hoisting ropes using shoulders and arms for long periods of time, i am now 45 years old and can do many 100s of lifts using 20kg weights in each arm on a regular basis, i have now done this for over 5 yearsand my shoulders arms and joints are in the best condition they have ever been , check some of the videos on youtube under dragan challenge and you will see many are now seein the results from training this way.
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Hi Trevor, I agree with some of the content of your posts. I am a firm believer in "use it or lose it" and have done high levels of exercise for over twenty five years {now aged 46}. However, one important thing to remember is the ankle was designed {after it evolved} for lots of walking and running. The shoulder is not designed for doing 1000 shoulder presses in one hit for example. It will wear out and then break. The same is true for our elbows when wfping, it is not a natural movement that we can do for hour after hour without getting problems.
I did a block of flats this morning, worked from 08:00 to 14:00 with a thirty minute break. My neck was very sore during the higher windows after a while, not much I can do about that but where possible, I cupped the base of the pole in the right hand and walked or rocked to and fro, much easier on the elbow joints.
sorry Tom but your shoulder is made of the same substance as your ankle and so quite easily can be trained to carry out 1000 lifts on a regular basis without causing injury, history shows that many of our ancestors even in recent history carried out physical tasks with arms and shoulders withoot suffering from RSI, all farm work included heavy lifting of bails of hay and manure with shovels yet i think you weill find it hard to find an old farmer suffering from RSI , all tree fellers in america used heavy axes day in and day out and even with the heavy impact and shock their shoulders where fine, even on the large sailing ships both present and past involved pulling and hoisting ropes using shoulders and arms for long periods of time, i am now 45 years old and can do many 100s of lifts using 20kg weights in each arm on a regular basis, i have now done this for over 5 yearsand my shoulders arms and joints are in the best condition they have ever been , check some of the videos on youtube under dragan challenge and you will see many are now seein the results from training this way.
Well Trevor i am certainly going to take a look at differant strenghning techniques,so i will start with having a look at what you said above.
I had lithotripsy yesterday on my wrist,basically shock waves passed through the bones,i dont know if it will work yet as i have more to follow so fingers crossed it will help.
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DW just as a recomendation i would advise starting with light weights of say about 8kg each arm even this may be too much at first, you need to be able to complete about fifteen minutes non stop with the weight you choose doing about 15 reps per minute, you obviously already have a medical condition so be carefull and dont push too hard at first ,on another note can i also advise that you eat 2 sticks of raw cellery a day this is excellent for bones and rheumatism, this is no coincidence as bones consist of 21% sodium the same as cellery is 21% sodium, do this for two weeks and let me know if your condition improves.
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I think it is worth bearing in mind the rocking motion, but not for regular residential. If you have a rigid light pole then moving your legs around to clean windows 15 foot in the air would be a waste of time and impossible to do at speed. When a pane of glass could be cleaned in under 5 seconds but require 2 or 3 down and up strokes plus a rinse you would need to be dancing to keep up with the brush head! However when your speaking of 25ft+ up then the leg movement starts to make sense.
The other thing to keep in mind with the leg rocking technique is that you aren't just moving the pole up and down the window but you are also moving your whole body weight with you leg muscles which are far bigger than your arm muscles, so you get more of a cardio work out, especially if your carrying excess weight, either in fat or an unnecessarily heavy pole. This means that you will be out of breath faster.
On the subject of shoulder and elbow pain, I found that 5 years ago mine were giving me hassle, however as poles have improved my joint pain has disappeared. I now make it a rule to buy the lightest stiffest pole that I can afford, and in more than one size.
Simon.
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I think it is worth bearing in mind the rocking motion, but not for regular residential. If you have a rigid light pole then moving your legs around to clean windows 15 foot in the air would be a waste of time and impossible to do at speed. When a pane of glass could be cleaned in under 5 seconds but require 2 or 3 down and up strokes plus a rinse you would need to be dancing to keep up with the brush head! However when your speaking of 25ft+ up then the leg movement starts to make sense.
The other thing to keep in mind with the leg rocking technique is that you aren't just moving the pole up and down the window but you are also moving your whole body weight with you leg muscles which are far bigger than your arm muscles, so you get more of a cardio work out, especially if your carrying excess weight, either in fat or an unnecessarily heavy pole. This means that you will be out of breath faster.
On the subject of shoulder and elbow pain, I found that 5 years ago mine were giving me hassle, however as poles have improved my joint pain has disappeared. I now make it a rule to buy the lightest stiffest pole that I can afford, and in more than one size.
Simon.
I agree