Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve Weatherley on March 19, 2012, 08:37:39 pm

Title: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Steve Weatherley on March 19, 2012, 08:37:39 pm
Looks like for now we can continue to clean windows with wfp after the ban comes into effect on 5th April. I wonder if the ban will extend to window cleaners if the drought continues.........and which industries would they regard 'non essential users' along with window cleaners?
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: richard jagger on March 19, 2012, 08:42:33 pm
I have called them and it does not apply to window cleaning as its for commercial use. BUT CALLED YOUR SUPPLIES AND FIND OUT. ??? ???
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Steve Weatherley on March 19, 2012, 08:47:38 pm
yes I know that but I am wondering how long before it DOES apply to us
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: bad trippy on March 19, 2012, 09:47:51 pm
Im ok coz Tosh lives in Wales, where they have tons of the stuff.
He's only 25 min drive from here, so guess where im gonna be getting me water from?
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Window Washers on March 20, 2012, 07:24:33 am
they talked about a drought and it then rained, typical  ::)
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: andyM on March 20, 2012, 08:00:53 am
I heard an intriguing story.....
One of the reservoirs repeatedly shown in the media in Northamptonshire has been deliberately kept at a low level due to construction maintenance work been carried out there.
Footage and pictures of this particular reservoir have been used in the media to highlight the dire drought situation.
Media manipulation? :o
No surely not.......... :-X

Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: gto on March 20, 2012, 08:11:18 am
where i live in northamptonshire there are 14 lakes within a 2 miles (old gravel works) and a 40ft wide river bursting its banks.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Tom White on March 20, 2012, 08:11:41 am
Im ok coz Tosh lives in Wales, where they have tons of the stuff.
He's only 25 min drive from here, so guess where im gonna be getting me water from?

Yep, more water than we can shake a stick at over here:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/2012-03-20_08-09_SavingWater.jpg)

Apologies for including the Taff Lasses in the screen shot.  If anyone thinks this is offensive, please use the report to moderator button.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Londoner on March 20, 2012, 08:29:48 am
Thirty odd years ago when I worked for the Water Board there were plans quite well developed to run a pipeline from South Wales to London along the side of the railway line to bring in water. Similarly a pipeline from "up north" along the side of the canals. They would dig up the towpath, sink a pipe and then cover it over and restore the towpath. Nobody would even know it was there.

None of it happened, presumably it all got axed somewhere along the way
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: H S and Son on March 20, 2012, 08:54:35 am
Do you think it is as simple as that? Put a pipe in the ground and that is it? Nothing else?
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: gto on March 20, 2012, 09:48:50 am
Do you think it is as simple as that? Put a pipe in the ground and that is it? Nothing else?

he never said that.
he said they planned to do something about water supply and didn't bother.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: andyM on March 20, 2012, 10:55:41 am
The idea of sensible investment into infrastructure probably got shelved when the water utilities were privatised.

Call me cynical..... ;D
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: SPE on March 20, 2012, 10:58:02 am
I am in the south and the thing that is concerning me more is that I fill my van with an ro that is in my flat. I have no off street parking and so the hose out to my van is visible for 3 hours a couple of times a week.
Its only going to take one disgruntled neighbour or "busy body type jobsworth" to try and shop me for using a hose pipe.
The only way round it I can see is for me to get up really early to fill the van or fill up barrels and carry them out to van which will be very time consuming and a real pain.  :(

simon
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: andyM on March 20, 2012, 11:00:53 am
If window cleaners in your region are still exempt from the hosepipe ban you having nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: SPE on March 20, 2012, 11:22:11 am
yes to my knowledge we are still exempt in sussex but I would still not welcome a visit from the water board due to a nosey neighbour, whilst out working I am not bothered in the slightest. My set up is far from ideal because I live in a highly populated area in a small flat and its my neighbours and general publics attitude to seeing a hose pipe coming out of my front door thats concerning me most, plenty of grumpy people about just at the moment !
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: richard jagger on March 20, 2012, 02:02:04 pm
Why don't you lot phone your water suppler and then you can put this problem to bed instead of guessing and  working up every one frenzy.There is not difference between the media and this forum lets make more sensation. Come on guys this is not the news of the world. ::) ::)
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Londoner on March 21, 2012, 07:51:28 am
Why don't you lot phone your water suppler and then you can put this problem to bed instead of guessing and  working up every one frenzy.There is not difference between the media and this forum lets make more sensation. Come on guys this is not the new of the world. ::) ::)

We have done that and didn't like the answers we got.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Luke B on March 21, 2012, 08:29:17 am
Has anyone tried to find the actual hosepipe ban exemptions in the Water Use Act 2010 legislation? Its this law the water companies are using and have to apply ie. they can ban nothing further than the law states although some of it is obviously worded and some is open to interpretation.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: johnwillan on March 21, 2012, 08:53:05 am
I believe Veolia Water Central are acting within the law but has misinterpretted the spirit of the law highlighted by their independent stance in this matter.

It is decision of each water company to impose the regulations how they see fit, but it is the intention of the industry to present a united front, unfortunately Veolia on this occassion has decided to stand alone.

To clarify: You cannot use a hosepipe (WFP in our case) to clean a domestic property using domestic, commercial, metered or unmetered Veolia Central Water.

You can clean commercial properties but not domestic.

You can bring water in from another provider and clean whatever you wish.

I suggest you:

1: Write to Veolia Central Water and request an exemption, highlighting their independent stance and how their actions will destroy your livelihood.
2: Forward your exemption request to your local MP and request assistance
3: Forward your exemption request to the water companys trade body and ask for assistance as they want to provide a united front.

I have done all of these.

If they do not have a change of heart I intend to source water from outside the area probably Thames.

However, even though Veolia Central have clearly stated in the FAQ's document that we cannot operate during this time I feel confident we would be within the law to use WFP on the grounds of H&S as stated in the exemptions listed is the 1991 act.

Hope this helps

John



Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: johnwillan on March 21, 2012, 09:20:28 am
Here is the email sent to Veolia Water Central requesting exemption from the ban, please feel free to use it or any part of it to help change Veolia Waters stance.

Dear Company Secretary

Ref: Temporary Use Ban

I operate a domestic window cleaning business with operators using water fed poles and I am very concerned about restrictions imposed in the forthcoming temporary use ban.

In the question and answers document accessed from the drought page of your website you state:

We are window cleaning business, are we affected?
Yes. You may not use a hosepipe to clean the windows of domestic premises. Hosepipes can still be used for cleaning windows of commercial premises but please make every effort to conserve water.

I am a window cleaning company and I fill my water tank from home for use at private properties. AmI affected by the ban?
You cannot fill up your tank with a hosepipe for use in washing windows or use a hose system connected to the mains to wash domestic windows.

Each of our vehicles carries water, which we use to clean domestic windows, we do not connect to the domestic supply, we work in accordance to the current working at height regulations and we only use water fed poles, we do not own and are not trained in the use of ladders.

As there is no viable alternative to the water fed pole, according to your guidelines we will have no alternative other that to cease trading destroying the livelihoods of  operators and the many years of hard work that has gone into building this business.

We understand the importance of water to our business, we have always been respectful in its use and constantly look at ways to reduce consumption, we appreciate these are difficult times and we will implement traditional methods wherever possible.

Thames, Anglian and Southern Water to name but a few have taken a measured approach to the temporary use ban as outlined in these exemptions.

Southern Water
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/Environment/WaterResourcesLatest/restrictionsNotice.asp Exceptions
The following are excepted from the prohibitions in this notice:
Using a water-fed pole to clean the windows of domestic premises in the course of a business;

Thames Water
http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/corp/hs.xsl/15420.htm
Commercial/business water use
Are window cleaners who use hosepipes affected?
No, they are not affected by the ban

Anglian Water
http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/environment/water-resources/E90894F6CB2546F88BFF82408F9B81CE.aspx
What am I still allowed to do?
Use a hosepipe in a garden or for cleaning walls or windows of domestic premises, paths or patios, a private leisure boat or an artificial outdoor surface, where such use is necessary for health and safety reasons;
Use a hosepipe in the course of a business to clean a private motor vehicle, or for cleaning walls or windows of domestic premises, paths or patios or an artificial outdoor surface, where this is done as a service to customers.

I therefore formally request an exemption from the temporary use ban in order to maintain trade and save the livelihoods of our operators.

I look forward to your earliest reply and a positive outcome.


Regards

 
John Willan

Ideal Window Cleaning
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: johnwillan on March 21, 2012, 09:50:37 am
You make your request for exemption to:

The Company Secretary: droughtrepresentations@veoliawater.co.uk it must be in by 17:00hrs on Thursday 29 March 2012.

If they decide to vary the planned restrictions as a result of representations received they will publish a further notice.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: andyM on March 21, 2012, 07:07:38 pm
I believe Nathanael Jones of the Master Guild of Window Cleaners is also considering draughting a letter to water companies stating how a ban on WFP window cleaning will put Health & Safety of window cleaners at risk.
Might be worth people joining the Guild to ensure a mutual benefit.  ;)
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: richardlingard on March 22, 2012, 06:22:06 pm
by the way that nathanial is an expert of fogwashes and propane powered heaters as well
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: dd on March 22, 2012, 07:52:00 pm
You make your request for exemption to:

The Company Secretary: droughtrepresentations@veoliawater.co.uk it must be in by 17:00hrs on Thursday 29 March 2012.

If they decide to vary the planned restrictions as a result of representations received they will publish a further notice.

Trouble is if you are refused does it put you on their radar and make you more culpable if caught as you cannot plead ignorance?
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: richard jagger on March 22, 2012, 10:37:53 pm
The water companies make so much money surely they can compensate one losses due to the ban on hose pipes.
Title: Re: Hosepipe Ban in the South
Post by: Londoner on March 22, 2012, 10:42:29 pm
You make your request for exemption to:

The Company Secretary: droughtrepresentations@veoliawater.co.uk it must be in by 17:00hrs on Thursday 29 March 2012.

If they decide to vary the planned restrictions as a result of representations received they will publish a further notice.

Trouble is if you are refused does it put you on their radar and make you more culpable if caught as you cannot plead ignorance?
good point