Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: steve k on January 07, 2006, 08:26:06 am
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I clean 2 houses on a new development which is still not fully built.
I charge £10 -£15 per house and obviously as a new development with lots of 3 storey properties and windows over sloping roofs/conservatories, it is ideal for WFP. I approached the sales office about 3 months ago and asked if I could leave some cards there for new owners.
I was told that there was a cleaner on the estate but people were not happy with him as he had already damaged gutters and roof tiles which the owners were reporting to the site manager as defects which he had to put right. The site manager knows it is the window cleaner but without proof is unable to do anything. Apparently, the owners will not mention it to the cleaner because he is "quite intimidating"
Anyway, I had a canvassing session around the estate this week, leafleting the properties with high windows and properties newly sold. I got 3 enquiries within a couple of hours. I also got a call from the cleaner who was not at all happy as he had the "contract" with Wimpey (rubbish-no such contract exists) and it`s not done to work on an area where someone else is.
I said "what about the houses you don`t clean?"
"I clean every house on the estate" he said
"well I clean 3 and have done for a few months and I am not taking any of your custom, I am canvassing the houses you do not clean"
"they are my houses" he said "if they want a window cleaner, they will ask me"
Anyway, the conversation rumbled on with me not getting anywhere as it got towards the inevitable "I have 5 lads working for me and I`m just warning you...you are not working on the estate no more"
When I laughed at this, he offered to pay me to stop canvassing!!
In all honesty, I can understand his worry as I think he has had a word in his ear from the site manager and I think after seeing my leaflets/WFP/van etc he may be concerned he will lose the round to me.
I would not like this to happen in all honesty but really believe there is room for me as well.
I`m a bit unsure how to proceed.
I am tempted to quote and take on anyone who phones me who DO NOT use him at the moment.
If he hasn`t canvassed these customers and they want a window cleaner, then that is his fault for resting on his laurels.
No amount of reassurance from me that I would not take any of his existing custom got through to him.
I will not be taking money from him, by the way but it seems a bit strange to offer to pay me to keep away.
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If he's got 5 lads working for him he must have a lot of work already and won't miss a few customers.
Round here ( NW London ) There is always another window cleaner working the street / estate already who is going to get the hump when you start canvassing.
I always say "there a lot of glass out there, more that you and me will ever manage to clean. So you do your share and I'll do mine. I'll try not to get in your way and you do the same - OK? "
Corny but it works
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I clean 2 houses on a new development which is still not fully built.
I charge £10 -£15 per house and obviously as a new development with lots of 3 storey properties and windows over sloping roofs/conservatories, it is ideal for WFP. I approached the sales office about 3 months ago and asked if I could leave some cards there for new owners.
I was told that there was a cleaner on the estate but people were not happy with him as he had already damaged gutters and roof tiles which the owners were reporting to the site manager as defects which he had to put right. The site manager knows it is the window cleaner but without proof is unable to do anything. Apparently, the owners will not mention it to the cleaner because he is "quite intimidating"
Anyway, I had a canvassing session around the estate this week, leafleting the properties with high windows and properties newly sold. I got 3 enquiries within a couple of hours. I also got a call from the cleaner who was not at all happy as he had the "contract" with Wimpey (rubbish-no such contract exists) and it`s not done to work on an area where someone else is.
I said "what about the houses you don`t clean?"
"I clean every house on the estate" he said
"well I clean 3 and have done for a few months and I am not taking any of your custom, I am canvassing the houses you do not clean"
"they are my houses" he said "if they want a window cleaner, they will ask me"
Anyway, the conversation rumbled on with me not getting anywhere as it got towards the inevitable "I have 5 lads working for me and I`m just warning you...you are not working on the estate no more"
When I laughed at this, he offered to pay me to stop canvassing!!
In all honesty, I can understand his worry as I think he has had a word in his ear from the site manager and I think after seeing my leaflets/WFP/van etc he may be concerned he will lose the round to me.
I would not like this to happen in all honesty but really believe there is room for me as well.
I`m a bit unsure how to proceed.
I am tempted to quote and take on anyone who phones me who DO NOT use him at the moment.
If he hasn`t canvassed these customers and they want a window cleaner, then that is his fault for resting on his laurels.
No amount of reassurance from me that I would not take any of his existing custom got through to him.
I will not be taking money from him, by the way but it seems a bit strange to offer to pay me to keep away.
If he's offering you money to stay away, I imagine that he's unlikely to be able to back up his thinly veiled threat about "5 lads working for him".
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Its obvious that this bloke feels threatened by you because you are doing a professional job and hes not. His only option is to put you out the picture, he sounds like a right loser if i were you i'd stick in there and do the work.
I dont believe in under-cutting window cleaners to get work as long as you do your job right your customers stay with you, there is no such thing as " my patch, my work, ive been on here longer than you" crap ! ::)
Steve, i think its time for this bloke to move on or conduct his business professionally, tell him you dont want his money but you'll give him a days training for free ;D
Brett
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Steve
This guy is just a BULLY and like all Bullys' he is full of crap and won't backup what he threatens.
What I would do is to phone him up and say that I don't like to be threatened and would he like to repeat his threat, if he does then record what he says and then tell him that you have him on tape.
I would then tell him that if anything happens to you or your business then copies, of this tape, will be going to the site manager of the housing estate, as well as their head office, you will also be handing a copy to the police.
I would also say that if he does carry out his threat and you lose business as a result then a copy of this tape will be used as evidence in any lawsuits and damages that you decide to pursue.
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I dont know what its like where you are. But up here there is a firm that gives site managers back handers in return for getting them the work.
When someone else goes onto the site they say its already taken care of, this way it freezes out the competition.
Where I have my rounds there is another 2 window cleaners one of them is a really great guy, we have a good bit of banter with each other. Especially when someone sells a house and the new owner moves in we consider them fair game sometimes we even swap work. The other is a grumpy sod that doesnt talk much and doesnt really think we have a right to have work on his round.
Personally I think you should canvass the hell out of it, because maybe his customers are not happy with him and they have the right to choose.
A bully can only bully someone who allows himself to be bullied.
Tell him its nothing personal just business.
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i wood tell him 2 send all 5 at once. then tell him its his turn. u dont nick others customers. thats a red flag 2 a bull. i would go 4 it big time on principel. threaten u then offer u money 2 stay away. hurt him where it realy hurts. TAKE THE LOT. i would
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Hi steve
I take it this is your first estats mate. Site managers knowing it was the windowcleaner who broke the tiles. Sky people knowing it was the windowcleaner who bumped the arial with the ladder and finally the windowcleaner walking over the plants. Over the last 10 years (when they were putting ip these large estates) ive had numerous complaints about the above and managed to put the customer straight about it. I mostly do new built estates and find it a bit of a pain when someone moves in, brings their own windowcleaner(if my customer moves to another estate where someone else does i pass them on) and the windowcleaner end up with about 10 customers out of about 75. Personally i wouldnt touch an estate with a windowcleaner already there but if your sure you want to, play fair. Hows this guy supposed to know whats going on? Ive never met a site manager too scared to tell anybody anything because they are intimidating. To me it looks as if you are turning up trying to get this work off him by trying to make out your wfp system would be better for them.
Dont take this personel as its only my opinion and i dont know any of you.
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it`s not the site manager who is intimidated, it`s his customers. If a gutter is damaged or a roof tile broken, the owners are reporting it to the site manager as new build damage and wanting it repaired/replaced. The site manager is, I believe, after ruling out his own workers, convinced it`s the window cleaner.
I also clean on a few estates where several window cleaners work ok alongside eachother.
This estate started occupying about 8 months ago and there are about 60 houses. About 40 are occupied and the cleaner has about 30 of those. The people who have been contacting me over the last 2-3 days after my leafleting have said they are not even aware of a window cleaner on the estate and that my leaflet is the first they have ever had.
It`s interesting that the calls I have had are from the houses with 3 stories which he cannot do and I am more than willing to do.
I reckon there are 20 houses there for me and my WFP at £10-£15 a house. This is less than 5 minutes from where I live so is a good earner.
On the subject of how I am selling my service, I do point out the benefits of a WFP system BUT this is NOT so I can take custom off a ladder user. IN fact, the first question I ALWAYS ask a caller is "do you have a window cleaner at the moment?"
If they answer yes, I tell them that I cannot offer them a service but please do keep my number or pass it on to anyone you know who might be looking for a window cleaner.
I actually do see the other cleaner`s point of view to a certain extent, but there are people on this estate who he has not contacted in months.
They have dirty 3 storey windows that need cleaning by someone - he does not appear to have the tools to clean them and I do. I`m offering to do the job, the owners are willing to pay me and he is getting a bit uptight. ???
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I can see why he is a bit uptight Steve. I think he feels threatened, but he has to understand that if he cant do them you will. Let him know you wont nick his customers but the ones who require their windows cleaned you will have to do. You are entitled to do them as he cant.
Good Luck Danny
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this bloke is some sort of idiot, do any of you lot on here do every house on a certain estate "i doubt it" there is enough work for all, example talking to another cleaner the other day we do a few each on a little estate same houses and i am dearer than him and we are both working and talking. As for the threats, well even though i work alone it would not be too hard to get some lads together if needed, i would really go for it if i were you
good fortune simb0
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Steve,
You're an ex-para. I'm sure you know how to handle this guy. I bet by the time you've buried him and finished cleaning your spade, you'll have forgotten all about it.
Just go about your business in the professional manner you would've anyway; that's my advice.
From a personal point of view, I really enjoy meeting other window cleaners. They come from such diverse backgrounds and it's great to 'chew the fat' and talk a bit shop with someone who does the same job as yourself.
When it comes to my non-window cleaning friends, I don't talk about my work as I know it bores the pants off them.
If he feels threatend by you taking his customers, he's obviously lacking in social skills, has no rapport with his customers and doing a sub-standard job and perpetuating the myth that all window cleaners do a shoddy job for a bit of extra beer money.
As Simbo said, he's obviously an idiot.
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Tosh,
you are right but the young para of old that was me has mellowed a bit. The thought of my 2 kids at home counting the days to my release from HMP Butlins has stopped me many a time from actions that 15 years ago I probably would have done without a thought. ;)
Do you live in South Wales?
If you do, did you do that mad thing that some people do and tab up Pen-Y-Fan to see sunrise on new years day?
Love that place...home from home ;D
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...and perpetuating the myth that all window cleaners do a shoddy job for a bit of extra beer money.
So that's not true then? ;D
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I think once you have spent a good bit of time in civvy street, you seem to loose that squaddie instinct of smack first ask questions later.
You also think in advance about the consequences of your actions.
I have been in a few situations lately and I have thought to myself "I could punch your lungs out, or snap your neck".
But you show restraint.
I always laugh and walk away from confrontations.
Something I never have done in my life.
Keep you eye on the money, I have traded my beer tokens for lifestyle tokens.
Good Luck
Gary
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never a truer word spoken preston!
steve, canvass everyone and if people have a window cleaner, ask them if they are satisfied with the service provided.
if yes, leave your card for the future, if no then give them your good service.
if this plonker who thinks your "on his patch" does a good job then he has nothing to worry about.
if he doesnt then his beer float gets reduced.
business is business, fair and square. some of my customers have come to me as they were not happy with their previous w/c and even though i charge more ,they are happy as i come when i say i will and i clean their windows.
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I went out today and did 4 houses on the estate. They all told me that the window cleaner had been round to every house on the estate telling them he was the "Wimpey" window cleaner. When they told him that they had made arrangements with me, apparently he became really angry :D
He rang me 10 minutes ago and I was very civil to him but also made it clear that I would stick with the customers I had got.
He actually started backtracking and asking me about WFP...it turns out he is panicking because he has told all his customers that he doesn`t do the top 2nd floor (ground/first/second)
Then my leaflet appears with photos of me doing the exact same windows with my WFP and they have started asking him if he has a WFP.
He asked where he can get a trolley so I pointed him to Ebay!!
He aslo asked if he could see my WFP in action and promised to give me any houses that he just cannot do ;D
aaahh...I love happy endings :'(
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Well done mate.
Sounds like his bark is harsher than his bite.
Best of luck to ya.
Gary
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We have been carpet cleaning for 25 yrs and have just started wfp from scratch.
Not wanting to tread on toes we have chatted and asked other wc s about the patches we are leafletting. All have been OK and quite a few have taken our leaflets and given them out to enquiries as they have more than enough work and are turning it away.
Takes all sorts!
Trevor
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I went out today and did 4 houses on the estate. They all told me that the window cleaner had been round to every house on the estate telling them he was the "Wimpey" window cleaner. When they told him that they had made arrangements with me, apparently he became really angry :D
He rang me 10 minutes ago and I was very civil to him but also made it clear that I would stick with the customers I had got.
He actually started backtracking and asking me about WFP...it turns out he is panicking because he has told all his customers that he doesn`t do the top 2nd floor (ground/first/second)
Then my leaflet appears with photos of me doing the exact same windows with my WFP and they have started asking him if he has a WFP.
He asked where he can get a trolley so I pointed him to Ebay!!
He aslo asked if he could see my WFP in action and promised to give me any houses that he just cannot do ;D
aaahh...I love happy endings :'(
A similar thing is happening with me with a new estate with 3 storey houses but i havent spoke to the other window cleaner yet,he aslo can`t do the top floor and some people are having conservatorys built so the first floor wont be able to be done from a ladder,o how i just love WFP,Gaz ;D
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Hi Steve Pen-y-fan is brilliant - I was up there sunrise 2005 on January 2nd - snow, still (usually gale force winds) and fantastic views.
But I notice you're from Liverpool and you must know that Snowdonia even tops the Brecons. Do Cader Idris first - fantastic mountain and then the one in my piccy - good ole Crib Goch.
It's no good asking Tosh - he's from windswept Northumberland - he thinks that anything over 1000ft is a real mountain! ;D
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I spent nearly 5 years in the Paras so got to know Brecon intimately so really enjoy the mountains there although the place seems to look the same from wherever you are on the Beacons!!
I agree Snowdonia is a fantastic place but not knowing it inside out, I would have to navigate and believe me, my lack of map reading ability literally stalled any career I might have had... ;D
I have sat on top of Fan Fawr in thick snow and looked over to the Fan...not a sound...just white blanketed stillness...absolute bliss ;)
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It's no good asking Tosh - he's from windswept Northumberland - he thinks that anything over 1000ft is a real mountain! ;D
Hey,
I've climbed Mont Blanc (the highest mountain in Western Europe) and most of the other high peaks in Europe (well Germany, Austria, England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales too).
I know how to 'French Walk', tie knots and order beer in several different languages, and have spent nights in snow holes (okay only two nights, but I've done it; when we couldn't find the next hut before it got dark).
In the French Alps I was so badly sun-burnt I looked like I'd been scorched in a car accident (I lost my hat, sun glasses and sunscreen whilst drunk in Chamonix).
I never really enjoyed mountain climbing though. It just got me time off from work. It was a lesser of two evils. In the army it's called 'Adventure Training'.
I've also spent two weeks sports parachuting in Netheravon, which is a lot more fun than what Steve K has ever done from his Para Regiment work.
Jumping out at 300 feet - as modern day para do - is not much fun - your parachute has barely enought time to open - and I believe it's the lowest a Para can now jump. Obviously the less time spent in the air, the less time you can be shot at.
5000 feet is really good fun though, especially when you haven't got a 30 lb back pack, plus rifle and then forced live in a hole for the next fortnight once you land.
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Tosh, it was 800 ft in my day and even then you had 3..!! yes..3 seconds to realise a malfunction of your main canopy and deploy your reserve before you hit the deck. I was scared every jump...I did 35... and judging by the number of hardmen closing their eyes and moving their lips, I wasn`t the only one...still the best time of my life though...when you landed safely, the thought of a couple of cold, wet and muddy weeks in a hole was alright by me.
I am SURE I read on an earlier post that you lived in S.Wales. ???
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He does but he's in Chepstow, so close to the South-East border I can see the whites of his eyes from the North West edge of my patch across the Severn Bridge in England.
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Hi Steve,
Had a similar problem today in bowring park area. Took on several new customers prior to xmas. Nice people, anyway decided to canvas rest of area and came across 'local window cleaner' Threatening self and staff that he would 'sort us out' if we canvassed 'his round' needless to say after trying to explain about free enterprise etc.etc he was quite adament that we should stay away. After initial enquiries this so called window cleaner charges next to nothing doesn't do the job properly. We have been asked by his present customers to clean their windows but they are afraid to cancel him. Anyway to cut a long story short we took on these new customers and canvassed the whole area. At the end of the day steve we can't let these cowboys intimidate us we are professionals and run legitimate businesses. By the way this fella from wimpey I'm sure we have had a run in with him but he did not offer us money he promised us loads of work if we stayed off his 'patch' which as you can guess we did not.
Oh by the way if you come across someone selling a round locally I would avoid them. Met a bloke today selling a round valued £4k He turned up half canned totally unprofessional charges £4 a house no accounts at all when we told him we were not interested got quite verbally aggressive etc---just a warning note to everyone.
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The wimpey lad has actually been on the phone and he is looking out for work for me!!
The round for sale that you mention...it`s not the one advertised in Knowsley Village is it?? Seen it in last nights echo. ???
Cheers