Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: William McCafferty on March 18, 2012, 07:52:42 pm
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anytime anyone posts a topic or responses to a topic and they state what they have as a turnover or wage, they are slated or praised depending on the figure quoted.
Personally if someone is quoting figures below what I am achieving then I might give advice on how I command more, I try not to sound like I'm bragging but others seem to think I am.
You then get some who are doing really well, now these people also get slated, why?
Personally I would like to see how they achieve what they say they do, numbers and facts don't lie, providing they are true facts and figures.
A lot of ladder cleaners have heard that wfp returns more per hour than trad on most properties, yet when anyone anyone now pushes wfp they are believed.
Turnover and money earnn't is a emotive subject, with some who object to figures being quoted, yet these same people want to know how they can streanline their business with better equipment or what have you.
So is there a double standard being operated by some?
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i think there needs to be a Block button on here so you can stop people you dont want in you topic ;D ;D
£400-£500 a day can be done, if you take the help off posts on here.
please keep all the good post coming lads ;D ;D ;D
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i think there needs to be a Block button on here so you can stop people you dont want in you topic ;D ;D
£400-£500 a day can be done, if you take the help off posts on here.
please keep all the good post coming lads ;D ;D ;D
as the person who starts a topic i think you can delete any of the posts can't you? i only noticed this today, but honestly think that this might be the only way to keep a topic on subject without other posters slating comments made and preventing other people contributing.
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F--- off about posting earnings I don't want to know. Its all rubbish anyway. I don't think we should discuss such matters.
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F--- off about posting earnings I don't want to know. Its all rubbish anyway. I don't think we should discuss such matters.
Don't read the threads then.
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just checked. you can't. you can only delete your own replies :(
i wonder what would happen if you reported to a moderator as off topic or inflammatory ?
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F--- off about posting earnings I don't want to know. Its all rubbish anyway. I don't think we should discuss such matters.
don't read the threads and dont post on the threads.
i;m not being rude here. there are plenty of topics on here that I;m not interested in which i don't contribute to.
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if people did not post what they earn I THINK I WOULD STILL BE TOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHEAP ;) and be happy to earn less, ;D ;D
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F--- off about posting earnings I don't want to know. Its all rubbish anyway. I don't think we should discuss such matters.
Vince
Thats a good point.
so lets go back in time, say 15 years when wfp was not heard of.
Some idiot comes onto to a forum and says he can now clean houses twice as fast as he use to with ladders.
You would not want to know how he is doing it? or would you want to know how he is doing it?
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Some idiot comes onto to a forum and says he can now clean houses twice as fast as he use to with ladders.
You would not want to know how he is doing it?
or are you still on ladders?
Of course we would, but that's got nothing to do with posting about earnings, has it?
That would be ways in which we can speed up!!
I agree about not saying how much we earn, what does it really achieve? The majority now how much you can earn in a good day, but you do get the better days when yu can earn a lot more, but people come on here posting those kind of figures for one reason only, to willy wave. The majority of people that post the figures are bullpoopers!
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That's easy. if it fits this definition http://www.brainyquote.com/words/br/brag138628.html
Then a forum is not the place.
If you just want to help then a simple explanation that wfp is generally a better earner then fair enough. Unfortunately most wfp operatives forget the massive overheads compared to trad.
There is no need to spout daily earnings then pretend you are trying to help people because it simply falls into the catagory of bragging. It's bad taste and bad manners.
There are hundreds of ways to help newbies, I don't believe bragging is one of them.
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turnover per day or in a week should be taken witrh a pinch of salt, its the overall figure for the year that matters.
This figure also need to filter down to the work and time involved.
A ladder cleaner can have a turnover figure which is what he wants, but a wfp guy could be doing the same figures, while working less than 20% of what this guy does.
We all look at ways to increase our earnings, some increase their prices, some come off ladders to wfp, some upgrade their poles or equipment etc etc.
so therefore we all are interested in increasing how much we can earn from this trade.
so if someone says they have a certain turnover figure, instead of pooping on them from a great height, rather look at how they are achiving it.
Remember we all can still learn from each other.
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who do you respect on this forum? Who do you look up to? JV Price? Alex Gardiner? Dave St Ives? Approved? any one of them would be classed as successful. Don't see them blabbing their earnings - why is that do you think?
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good post hydro ;)
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who do you respect on this forum? Who do you look up to? JV Price? Alex Gardiner? Dave St Ives? Approved? any one of them would be classed as successful. Don't see them blabbing their earnings - why is that do you think?
Good post Mr Etting :)
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I don't mind anyone posting about earnings provided it's truthfull and there's some explanation or something about how they earn that but when even the simple logistics or driving between jobs means that it's impossible........
Last Friday I spent more time in traffic jams that I did window cleaning but these posters never have problems with traffic, have all the jobs almost next to each other or in the next street, they are all quick, easy and pay well, they're so superhuman they can do 30, 40 or 50 houses a day, every day, and they never seem to mention about the organisation that would be needed or how they go about it.
There's so much BS posted and often it's obvious it's BS.
As posted above, it's willy waving.
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who do you respect on this forum? Who do you look up to? JV Price? Alex Gardiner? Dave St Ives? Approved? any one of them would be classed as successful. Don't see them blabbing their earnings - why is that do you think?
ok a newbie comes on and say he is starting up and he going to start charging £3 a house (front and back)
What would you say to him?
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I don't mind anyone posting about earnings provided it's truthfull and there's some explanation or something about how they earn that but when even the simple logistics or driving between jobs means that it's impossible........
Last Friday I spent more time in traffic jams that I did window cleaning but these posters never have problems with traffic, have all the jobs almost next to each other or in the next street, they are all quick, easy and pay well, they're so superhuman they can do 30, 40 or 50 houses a day, every day, and they never seem to mention about the organisation that would be needed or how they go about it.
There's so much BS posted and often it's obvious it's BS.
As posted above, it's willy waving.
+1
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who do you respect on this forum? Who do you look up to? JV Price? Alex Gardiner? Dave St Ives? Approved? any one of them would be classed as successful. Don't see them blabbing their earnings - why is that do you think?
ok a newbie comes on and say he is starting up and he going to start charging £3 a house (front and back)
What would you say to him?
Giving advice on pricing a house is different to bragging how much you earn a day week, month whatever.
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I don't mind anyone posting about earnings provided it's truthfull and there's some explanation or something about how they earn that but when even the simple logistics or driving between jobs means that it's impossible........
Last Friday I spent more time in traffic jams that I did window cleaning but these posters never have problems with traffic, have all the jobs almost next to each other or in the next street, they are all quick, easy and pay well, they're so superhuman they can do 30, 40 or 50 houses a day, every day, and they never seem to mention about the organisation that would be needed or how they go about it.
There's so much BS posted and often it's obvious it's BS.
As posted above, it's willy waving.
[/quote)
these posters are found out by how long they normally last on a forum.
I know that if someone said they do this or that which I'm am not them I would ask questions and look at if I could use the same methods.
The same applies when new tools or chemicals come onto the market, if its going to earn me more then I am interested.
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who do you respect on this forum? Who do you look up to? JV Price? Alex Gardiner? Dave St Ives? Approved? any one of them would be classed as successful. Don't see them blabbing their earnings - why is that do you think?
ok a newbie comes on and say he is starting up and he going to start charging £3 a house (front and back)
What would you say to him?
Giving advice on pricing a house is different to bragging how much you earn a day week, month whatever.
How?
This person might be happy and ready to earn £50 a day, he then finds a forum and finds that its possible to earn more over time.
How is he to know this if its keeped secret.
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remember OCS
They startted off as a window cleaning company 100 years ago, and earn;t a pittance.
They now gross over £700 million a year.
we all cannot just earn the minimum wage
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look at the ionic vid 4 bed house in 12min by one cleaner ??? if priced well and planed out 20-30 a day can be done.
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Yeah i have always enoyed reading the earnings posts. They inspired me to put some prices up and helped improve my efficiency.
It doesn't seem that long ago when £200 in a day earnings were scoffed by the majority on here. Now the majority can.
Earnings posts help drive up achievable prices, i reckon. So keep them coming and let the ones who are interested sift through the bs and learn how someone is doing it.
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Yeah i have always enoyed reading the earnings posts. They inspired me to put some prices up and helped improve my efficiency.
It doesn't seem that long ago when £200 in a day earnings were scoffed by the majority on here. Now the majority can.
Earnings posts help drive up achievable prices, i reckon. So keep them coming and let the ones who are interested sift through the bs and learn how someone is doing it.
Mark I swear it was you that I spoke to few years. Ack do you still clean in st. Neots ?
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Yeah i have always enoyed reading the earnings posts. They inspired me to put some prices up and helped improve my efficiency.
It doesn't seem that long ago when £200 in a day earnings were scoffed by the majority on here. Now the majority can.
Earnings posts help drive up achievable prices, i reckon. So keep them coming and let the ones who are interested sift through the bs and learn how someone is doing it.
Mark I swear it was you that I spoke to few years. Ack do you still clean in st. Neots ?
You bought those brokem sl2 sections off me awhile back. I don't remember any conversation though. Its not me from st neots.
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Yeah i have always enoyed reading the earnings posts. They inspired me to put some prices up and helped improve my efficiency.
It doesn't seem that long ago when £200 in a day earnings were scoffed by the majority on here. Now the majority can.
Earnings posts help drive up achievable prices, i reckon. So keep them coming and let the ones who are interested sift through the bs and learn how someone is doing it.
Mark I swear it was you that I spoke to few years. Ack do you still clean in st. Neots ?
Ok mate, is another mark not seen your posting for a long while
You bought those brokem sl2 sections off me awhile back. I don't remember any conversation though. Its not me from st neots.
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one of the problems seems to be that some people decide whether something is 'true' or not by what they've experienced and what they believe is possible. so they are always going to be limited by their own experiences.
and how can you judge whether people are real or not by how long they stay on a forum. if people who post about earnings or daily workloads get abused and bullied by other forum contributors, i'm not surprised they don't stick around.
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Who cares? ;D
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one of the problems seems to be that some people decide whether something is 'true' or not by what they've experienced and what they believe is possible. so they are always going to be limited by their own experiences.
and how can you judge whether people are real or not by how long they stay on a forum. if people who post about earnings or daily workloads get abused and bullied by other forum contributors, i'm not surprised they don't stick around.
Not how long they stay around you can just tell, people that post thing like this don't stick about because normally they are shown to be talking out off there a@&
And when shown it they can't handle it that's the cold hard truth Richard and as as winpro says who cares, what others warn make no difference to others at all
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look at the ionic vid 4 bed house in 12min by one cleaner ??? if priced well and planed out 20-30 a day can be done.
Blimey. Here we go again.
Dream on.
Sorry mate.
Work out the logistics.
Are they all near together, no traffic problems, all 12 minutes, no unexpected hold ups, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
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pricing - good
Rate per hour Good
Full all day or volume Good
How much your earn NO GOOD. ??? ??? ???
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F--- off about posting earnings I don't want to know. Its all rubbish anyway. I don't think we should discuss such matters.
Don't read the threads then.
Its not ME reading the threads that I am concerned about. There is already one thread running with some idiot talking about earning £500 a day.
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what i earn is my business and mine only,
why would i want to tell you lot or anyone,you only be jealous ;D
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who do you respect on this forum? Who do you look up to? JV Price? Alex Gardiner? Dave St Ives? Approved? any one of them would be classed as successful. Don't see them blabbing their earnings - why is that do you think?
ok a newbie comes on and say he is starting up and he going to start charging £3 a house (front and back)
What would you say to him?
Giving advice on pricing a house is different to bragging how much you earn a day week, month whatever.
agreed!unfortunately this forum is full of little boys masquerading as men hoping to
be little celebritys on here..oooh look at me i need to inflate my ego i have deep insecurities
and a small thingy but look at me waving my large trunk around. ;D
seriously giving good advice to people about pricing equipment and good workpractices
is totally different to quoting figures (SOME OVERINFLATED)lacks class and is in bad taste
hey what would i know im just a window cleaner! ;D
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I earm what I earn some days good some days great some days rubbish I do my own thing and only concern myself with my earnings.
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I earm what I earn some says good some days great some days rubbish I do my own thing and only concern myself with my earnings.
well said! :)
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Personally i couldn't care less what other people earn .
The way I see it as long as you are earning what you want to earn and are happy with the way things are going who cares .
There are always going to be people Willy waving saying "oh look at me i earn more than you ". So what ?if it makes you feel good belitteling other people on what you earn carry on . because remember your only a window cleaner !!!!!!!!
Myself im yet to start but when i do i wouldn't bother posting how much i earns there will allways be people earning more than you and there will allways be people earning less than you . that's life for you .
in my last trade i had a decent paid job and had a side business aswell i was happy with what i was earning circa a grand a week but it came to an abrupt end due to ill health .
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F--- off about posting earnings I don't want to know. Its all rubbish anyway. I don't think we should discuss such matters.
Don't read the threads then.
Its not ME reading the threads that I am concerned about. There is already one thread running with some idiot talking about earning £500 a day.
I got within spitting distance of that once and once only on a very large, very well priced job. I priced it before I realised how quickly WFP can get around some jobs. Never again though. A couple of nights later, and for a few nights after, I kept getting woken up by pains in one of my arms. It wasn't worth it. Pace myself much better now. Not willy waving here. Just telling the WHOLE truth about that day. After the pain I went through, I wouldn't do a day like that again for a thousand. I can earn perfectly OK money without knocking my body to shreds.
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I am with Gavinb on this.
I set myself achievable targets and if I hit them, great. If I fail, I don't worry as every day is different and it balances out over time.
The more you put into this game, the more you will get from it. How much depends on you. Though I don't see the need to publish earnings, we could ask ourselves honestly; are we jealous of those who say they earn more, or do we hold in derision those who don't. Or are we happy for ourselves and for each other in that we can encourage each other with useful tips on what has helped us to stay in business.
John
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All the WILLY WAVERS :P if you want to brag lets see a copy of your Tax return then i may be impressed :o
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All the WILLY WAVERS :P if you want to brag lets see a copy of your Tax return then i may be impressed :o
I agree with this one; you can blank the personal details out.
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It's all twaddle, I made far more money in my last job than I do now, but at least I go home in the evening, the wife and I have a bite to eat, cup of tea, life's good.
If you can pay your bills and have a bit left over to enjoy yourself then you're doing as well as anyone else.
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It's all twaddle, I made far more money in my last job than I do now, but at least I go home in the evening, the wife and I have a bite to eat, cup of tea, life's good.
If you can pay your bills and have a bit left over to enjoy yourself then you're doing as well as anyone else.
That's it in a nutshell.
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the people who post about huge earnings are the same people whoo post wingey stories of losing a 5 quid customer, (you would think earning that much you wouldnt notice) and the same people who post about the ammount of newbies on their patch. go figure you read on here about potential earnings and see easy money to be made.
every trade people lies about how much money they earn
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For the £500 a day guys, what vans you all running? I've 2 on the road. An older shape expert 04 reg and an 09 transporter, 174 - I don't make £500 a day so can I assume you have v6 vito's or the like?
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???
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Drugs. ;D
Off his head. Different planet.
CUCKOO
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I've heard of thread drift before but that looks like someone has pressed a wrong button somewhere :)
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maybe driving traffic to his website maybe ??
loose link to thread though ... if harness comes undone u wont be earning anything ever again ;D
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What the hell has harnesses got to do with earnings.Come on Guys get with the program. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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I'd love to earn £500 a day; I'm happy earning twice that in a week. I've tried hard to see how I could do it and, apart from putting my prices up to a daft level, I can't think how it can be done.
Perhaps after 20 years I'm still missing something, or, heaven forbid, perhaps there's a bit of story telling going on ;D
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so all i need to get up to is £250 per week then i can leave buses.
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There's certain costs to consider, fuel, various van costs etc. also you need to factor in having no holiday pay, sick pay nor employer pension contributions.
Once you work all that out then you'll know how much you need
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I feel that there are 4 groups who come under this topic,
1 These are the ones who want to show off and LOOK AT ME.
2 These are the ones who are getting the higher rates and they want to help those you are not getting it, to increase their turnover figures.
3 These are the ones who know how much can now be made from window cleaning, but they don't want anyone else to know, because the extra competition will spoil it for them, so they will keep very quite or bitch.
4 These just like to keep these sort of details between themselfs and the taxman, but the taxman might not be seeing the whole picture all the time.
5 These are the ones who believe that £6 front and back is a reasonable charge for a house.
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My friend runs a garden centre and on the forum he is on they discuss takings, overheads, record days, profit etc. it allows them to compare their own business to others across the country.
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I feel that there are 4 groups who come under this topic,
1 These are the ones who want to show off and LOOK AT ME.
2 These are the ones who are getting the higher rates and they want to help those you are not getting it, to increase their turnover figures.
3 These are the ones who know how much can now be made from window cleaning, but they don't want anyone else to know, because the extra competition will spoil it for them, so they will keep very quite or bitch.
4 These just like to keep these sort of details between themselfs and the taxman, but the taxman might not be seeing the whole picture all the time.
5 These are the ones who believe that £6 front and back is a reasonable charge for a house.
well that 5 groups and not 4 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so i never listen to what you earn ;D ;D ;D
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I feel that there are 4 groups who come under this topic,
1 These are the ones who want to show off and LOOK AT ME.
2 These are the ones who are getting the higher rates and they want to help those you are not getting it, to increase their turnover figures.
3 These are the ones who know how much can now be made from window cleaning, but they don't want anyone else to know, because the extra competition will spoil it for them, so they will keep very quite or bitch.
4 These just like to keep these sort of details between themselfs and the taxman, but the taxman might not be seeing the whole picture all the time.
5 These are the ones who believe that £6 front and back is a reasonable charge for a house.
well that 5 groups and not 4 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so i never listen to what you earn ;D ;D ;D
;D
You've three types of window cleaners; you've got those who can count, and those who can't!
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I feel that there are 4 groups who come under this topic,
1 These are the ones who want to show off and LOOK AT ME.
2 These are the ones who are getting the higher rates and they want to help those you are not getting it, to increase their turnover figures.
3 These are the ones who know how much can now be made from window cleaning, but they don't want anyone else to know, because the extra competition will spoil it for them, so they will keep very quite or bitch.
4 These just like to keep these sort of details between themselfs and the taxman, but the taxman might not be seeing the whole picture all the time.
5 These are the ones who believe that £6 front and back is a reasonable charge for a house.
well that 5 groups and not 4 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so i never listen to what you earn ;D ;D ;D
don't worry, I have stopped saying what I do, and I have now stopped helping anyone from getting what I get.
What I do and how I do, is up to others to figure out how i do it, and I don;t really care anymore, I got more important things to look at and do, why bother.
O, I will leave the typo error to prove I am human and can admit mistakes when they happen, just the same as when I type the truth, which a lot either cannot believe or don't want others to hear.
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Why would anyone in their right mind want to help all the competition earn as much or more than them? Are you nuts?
That's their business and if they aren't blabbing anyway then it's no concern to me what they earn. It's none of my business and who cares anyway?
What makes you think you're earning more than everyone else anyway? You might well be on the bottom of the pile. ;D
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don't worry, I have stopped saying what I do, and I have now stopped helping anyone from getting what I get.
What I do and how I do, is up to others to figure out how i do it, and I don;t really care anymore, I got more important things to look at and do, why bother.
O, I will leave the typo error to prove I am human and can admit mistakes when they happen, just the same as when I type the truth, which a lot either cannot believe or don't want others to hear.
I think you are secretly willy waving by writing the above.
If you actually didn't care, you wouldn't have written that you don't care. People that genuinely don't care tend not write about how they don't care. It's sort of contradictory.
On most forums, like this one, it's best not to take things too seriously.
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I view this forum to exchange tips with like minded people. It has helped me, and in return I offer tips that I have found helpful.
To post earnings is not helpful really. I have earnt good money on a Monday only for it to rain the rest of the week. The turnover figure is not the amount you will take home. So I think posting earnings doesn't encourage/help anyone, and it's not the purpose of this forum, do that down the pub if you need the ego boost, personally I'm not interested in what you earn, I do alright, that's all that matters to me.
If you were employed and earnt £10 an hour, it would cost your employer around £20-£25 an hour to employ you, we cover all these costs ourselves, so it's best not to get overexcited about a good day.
If you work hard w/cleaning allows you to earn a decent living, and you can get to see your kids.
I have earnt more in the past than now, 2009 I lost two large contracts, if I had got carried away about how much they made me I would now be out of business.
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the profit you ve made after all expenses,tax,insurances etc have been taken out of your yearly income is the reality of how much your earning.
i think if your left with £20,000 profit after ALL expenses and tax at the end of the year as a one man band your doing a lot better than a lot on here!!!! ;)
c mon i think everyone should put up how much profit they ve made after all deductions!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
i read a report the other week saying that over 65% of people lie/exaggerate on forums,internet,facebooketc.GO FIGURE!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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don't worry, I have stopped saying what I do, and I have now stopped helping anyone from getting what I get.
What I do and how I do, is up to others to figure out how i do it, and I don;t really care anymore, I got more important things to look at and do, why bother.
O, I will leave the typo error to prove I am human and can admit mistakes when they happen, just the same as when I type the truth, which a lot either cannot believe or don't want others to hear.
I think you are secretly willy waving by writing the above.
If you actually didn't care, you wouldn't have written that you don't care. People that genuinely don't care tend not write about how they don't care. It's sort of contradictory.
On most forums, like this one, it's best not to take things too seriously.
Spot on, Wossy, about the not caring bit. I was going to explain that, but I didn't care enough to do so at the time.
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I think that I'm very old fashioned and just like my dad ,who always said that you just never asked what someone was earning?
If they are successful, you will see just by pointers (new vans, more staff for multiple operators and nice new shiny sport type work vans for single operators who always seem to be on holiday)
There will be always a few who will live completely beyond their means in dream land, remebering a local undertaker in my home town, flying round in italian sportscar,riding harleys everywhere who spectacularly went bust owing 100's of k's
To some extent this is a pointless thread , because we will have such a dichotomy of answers that it will never reveal any grain of truth for newbies or pros alike
Only an accountant will give you an answer if you were looking to buy or sell because by then, your really at the sharp end of the truth
As for me, I would like to think I'm doing ok for a fairly fresh face in the game - I'm working really hard to provide for my family and that, in a nutshell, is all I care about and I don't waste energy dreaming about ifs,maybes and could have beens
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Why would anyone in their right mind want to help all the competition earn as much or more than them? Are you nuts?
That's their business and if they aren't blabbing anyway then it's no concern to me what they earn. It's none of my business and who cares anyway?
What makes you think you're earning more than everyone else anyway? You might well be on the bottom of the pile. ;D
I don't mind helping anyone out, I have spoken to some cleaners around my areas and when prices have been mentioned, we have both learn't.
I have learn't that you can ask and get more than I was, because my competitors are charging more, I also come across cleaners who are charging a lot less than me but they felt that they cound't ask for more, after some encouragement they now charge more.
I have also helped out my competitors by borrowing/giving them equipment or even work, if you remember I even offered you a brand new controller when you had your problems.
I don't see the harm, I don't tell them everything of course, my commercial contract prices and contact details are never disclosed.
A new guy has just started around my area and he is charging £10 for front and back and the insides as well.
I think I will keep quite with this guy as he has tried to get a couple of pubs with these prices off me.
I don't mind him undercutting me and if I lose the pubs, well their carpet and upholstery cleaning bill will increase, and when he goes out of business or they want me back, well their old price will be replaced by a newer one which is 50% higher.
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You did indeed offer me a controller once, but that's the point I'm making - there are loads of ways to help fellow windowcleaners out and like I said before bragging isn't one of them. I was also recently helped out by two guys on here when my van was hit off the road. One I'd never met in my life and yet he willingly lent me a spare tank whilst the other fetched it for me.
That's when forums really come into their own and I'd like to feel I would do the same if I got the chance. Just my opinion and one I unfortunately feel strongly about.
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You did indeed offer me a controller once, but that's the point I'm making - there are loads of ways to help fellow windowcleaners out and like I said before bragging isn't one of them. I was also recently helped out by two guys on here when my van was hit off the road. One I'd never met in my life and yet he willingly lent me a spare tank whilst the other fetched it for me.
That's when forums really come into their own and I'd like to feel I would do the same if I got the chance. Just my opinion and one I unfortunately feel strongly about.
The best post in four pages.
I am happy to keep my earnings private.
Years ago Taxi drivers earnt great money untill that was discovered and now they are over run with drivers all earning far less.
The same will happen, is happening to us I'm sure
Art
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Do you think some people find their self esteem in their daily turnover, hence the need for them to brag about it?
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Do you think some people find their self esteem in their daily turnover, hence the need for them to brag about it?
yes ;D