Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: sham33 on March 18, 2012, 04:08:09 pm
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Has any one owned both it would be good to know if its worth the upgrade. Thx.
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Smudger has had both, he's the man to talk to.
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Hi a Merlin produces 720 GPD and a 4040 produces 2300 GPD, therefore a 4040 will be faster, both require good constant water pressure the higher the better
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Ok thanks sounds a lot faster than what i have now.
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The answer is yes it is and less waste had a merlin shocking amounts it wastes
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The answer is yes it is and less waste had a merlin shocking amounts it wastes
Yeah that is one of the other main reasons too especially the way things are right now.
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the merlin is a domestic pure water system thats what it was made for but many do use it for window cleaning with wfp , however the 40/40 ro is the one to use if you have a lot of work and much cheaper to run and with the correct pre -filtration will last you for years, mine is over 12 years old and still the same membrane and its 169ppm in this area which is medium hard.
flush out ro's twice a week with pure water is the answer, just connect your outlet hose to your fill port turn back ro numpty fully anti clockwise switch pump on fuul blast ( As if cleaning windows )
and flush for 10 mins this will clean all the crap in your membrane and always have pre filtration before ro,s eg carbon filter, sediment filter water softener filter (if in hard water area, and back wash this one regular) then before the water comes to pump use a DI resin filter to give 100% pure water with a tds of 0.00
follow this guideline and it will last you forever.
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the merlin is a domestic pure water system thats what it was made for but many do use it for window cleaning with wfp , however the 40/40 ro is the one to use if you have a lot of work and much cheaper to run and with the correct pre -filtration will last you for years, mine is over 12 years old and still the same membrane and its 169ppm in this area which is medium hard.
flush out ro's twice a week with pure water is the answer, just connect your outlet hose to your fill port turn back ro numpty fully anti clockwise switch pump on fuul blast ( As if cleaning windows )
and flush for 10 mins this will clean all the crap in your membrane and always have pre filtration before ro,s eg carbon filter, sediment filter water softener filter (if in hard water area, and back wash this one regular) then before the water comes to pump use a DI resin filter to give 100% pure water with a tds of 0.00
follow this guideline and it will last you forever.
could you clarify the ro flush?
when you say "connect your outlet hose". is this your ro outlet hose or from your van
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Can you flush a merlin and how please
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Can you flush a merlin and how please
I don't have a Merlin but looked into it quite extensively a couple of years back.
Merlin actually do a flushing tank that will automatically back flush your membranes every time the unit stops filtering.
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/GE-Merlin-flushing-tank-4.html
Spruce
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4040 produces more pure water faster than a merlin but the ratio of waste between a merlin and a 4040 is the same - for longevity of a 4040 it should be 70/30 ratio waste/pure which is about the same as a merlin. I have 2 4040's running in line and when doing this it is ok for waste ratio to be 50/50
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Can you flush a merlin and how please
I don't have a Merlin but looked into it quite extensively a couple of years back.
Merlin actually do a flushing tank that will automatically back flush your membranes every time the unit stops filtering.
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/GE-Merlin-flushing-tank-4.html
Spruce
No it doesn't. You can't back flush a Merlin.
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Uh yes you can.
Top port on merlin is for backflushing. Uses pressure to force permeate water back through the membrane fibres releasing trapped salts down the drain.
With a 4040 you are only flushing tap water over the top of the membrane to force salts off the surface of the membrane and Down the drain
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Uh yes you can.
Top port on merlin is for backflushing. Uses pressure to force permeate water back through the membrane fibres releasing trapped salts down the drain.
With a 4040 you are only flushing tap water over the top of the membrane to force salts off the surface of the membrane and Down the drain
what is permeate water ? thats a new one for me ( I love to learn ) :)
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Uh yes you can.
Top port on merlin is for backflushing. Uses pressure to force permeate water back through the membrane fibres releasing trapped salts down the drain.
With a 4040 you are only flushing tap water over the top of the membrane to force salts off the surface of the membrane and Down the drain
No you cant. The top port is for the flush tank.
You can't do it with the flush tank, that is only for TDS spike when turning the Merlin on after stand by.
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No it's not, when you close the permeate (pure water) faucet the permeate in the bladder tank blows backwards over the membranes and out through the waste. This is to prevent salt saturation of the membranes.
You can connect some 1/4 Jg piping to your pole hose, push the end into the top port, and turn the pump on to backflushing your membranes.
We have been doing this for about 5 years, original membranes (it's at my sons house - 2500 to 3000 ltrs pure a week, tds in 135 tds out 11
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to my knowledge merlin has no back flush - the tank is to stop TDS spikes when used for drinking water - which you get with any ro if left for a few days.
i had my Merlin running at over 100 ltrs ph - my 4040 runs just slightly faster but it came with the van, so i don't know what version membrane it is and i'm due to change the pre filters
the biggest advantage the 4040 has is less waste and better pure the merlin used to be 19 the 4040 is 6 but
the merlin served me well for 3 years and easily produced enough water for 2 vans ( 800 ltrs ) every day
Darran
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I back flush my merlin by filling a barrel with pure water then pumping it back through the Merlin using my booster pump using the top port as alanwilson describes.
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Guys, this is completely made up! All your doing is flushing the water your putting in directly to waste! It isn't touching the membranes!
No where in the Merlin manual does it say to do this, doing this will make no difference to your membrane life.
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Guys, this is completely made up! All your doing is flushing the water your putting in directly to waste! It isn't touching the membranes!
No where in the Merlin manual does it say to do this, doing this will make no difference to your membrane life.
well said
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What's the port for then? Why is the flush check valve plumbed into it?
Before you say I'm making anything up check you're right first, you think GE just stuck a port on there for the fun of it?
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-3604-ge-merlin-flush-kit.aspx
Have a look at the direction of travel of permeate water coming from the flush kit, it goes through the membranes the reverse way and then out the drain, the check valve allows this.
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First of all the Merlin is designed as an under the sink ro for drinking water. That means it is on and off sporadically when the tap (faucet) is turned on. The issues with any ro's is they need a few litres of water going through them before they kick in, the initial burst of water out of the unit has very high TDS which kills the resin in some window cleaners set up.
The flush tank simply holds some purified water and mixes it with the initial high TDS when you turn it on, this helps reduce the TDS 'spike' mentioned on the flush tank description.
The Merlin is designed as a minimal fuss domestic unit for the average home owner. This is why there is no back flush to confuse things.
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No it doesn't! Have you got a merlin? Prob no!
Look at the flipping diagram and stop spouting, have a look on gapswater site for more clarification.
Honestly you are giving poor, ill-informed advice.
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Yes and had a flush tank.
What has Gaps water got to do with it? READ THE MANUAL!!!
No where in the literature does it say to do what you suggest yet i'm giving poor, ill-informed advice? Please.
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It's all there for you to see, seriously, that's what it is there for!
It's to reduce salt diffusion across the membranes, improves life of the membranes.
The damage or wear as such, to a membrane, is mostly caused by when it is at rest, the salts settle in the membrane via osmosis because the membranes are not under pressure. It's usually known as salt diffusion and the prob it causes is fouling, or scaling of the membrane, which reduces surface area and therefore the membranes become less efficient, slowing production rate etc.
You can get the larger diagram at GE's web page (need to google it)
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OK not to argue over this but here is the manual:-
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/specifications/MerlinInstallManual.pdf
I cannot see where something as big as this could be missing? Where have you got your info from??
Also read the link you provided carefully. The flush tank is for TDS creep, not for cleaning membranes.
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TSS creep - that is another name for salt diffusion!
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Ok I had a look at your link
Please see pages 7,8 and 12 to start with.
Your own link talks about a flush tank numerous times.
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I think I have to agree with Alan, if you read this (http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/manuals/GE-Merlin-Flush-Kit.pdf) it clearly says that it flushes the outer membrane to reduce the salt saturation with pure water, this is done automatically after each use.
I can see what mrindustry is saying because it basically it's to prevent tds spiking when it hasn't been used for a while.
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Read what it says on the last paragraph of the flush tank info:-
'The flush kit is recommended for applications where a spike of TDS at system start-up is not desirable'
Its not for unclogging membranes. Nowhere does it say to rig up a pump and blast it through the flush port to prolong membrane life. This wont work with the Merlin as it does with other RO systems.
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You can't unclog a membrane without chemicals, we know that. Flushing only helps lessen the impact of diffusion.
The point about Tds spike is relevant as the kit flushes high Tds water away from the membrane with permeate (low Tds/after ro) water.
As regards connecting a pump to flush the merkin, we do it (shurflo 5.2ltr/min) pump. Have a merlin at my sons for about 5 years now, still going well, 2500 ltrs approx a week.
Have a twin 4040 at mine
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Would be interesting to run an experiment side by side with leaving a Merlin as is and doing what you guys do. 5 years is a very long time on one set of membranes.
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You can't unclog a membrane without chemicals, we know that. Flushing only helps lessen the impact of diffusion.
The point about Tds spike is relevant as the kit flushes high Tds water away from the membrane with permeate (low Tds/after ro) water.
As regards connecting a pump to flush the merkin, we do it (shurflo 5.2ltr/min) pump. Have a merlin at my sons for about 5 years now, still going well, 2500 ltrs approx a week.
How exactly do you flush it and do you run a booster on it and what tds do you get out of them and whats your tds before you go through it.
Please
Have a twin 4040 at mine
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Thats an interesting point. When using the booster pump, what is the TDS of the water going in? and the water coming out of the waste?
That would be a test to see what rigging up the flush valve does.
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Here goes.
We use a shurflo window cleaning pump to flush the membranes, it's a spare pump with a 1/4 inch push fit attached. Other end is plugged into merlin flush port, pure water gets pumped in. Obviously tap water into merlin is switched off at time.
We flush it for about half an hour.
Tap Tds in is around 110, Tds out normally 7 or 8.
Tap pressure when running is about 70psi.
Pure water flow is around 75ltrs an hour, obviously not as efficient as new membranes but still doing well enough.