Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: red star on March 18, 2012, 07:32:52 am

Title: How to pay staff
Post by: red star on March 18, 2012, 07:32:52 am
im taking on another lad to do my cleans for me at the end of the month ive known him for years honest and reliable and worked for me on / off for the last 8 years doing allsorts so his honesty and reliability doesnt come into the equation
im just to busy to run both my garden works and window cleaning so it should work out splitting the work im supplying everything van water equipment etc and him just his time
whats the best way to pay him by the job or a day rate
his not a slacker but i reckon he would still achieve a bit more if a money incentive was there and would probably put in more hours if was on a price per job
if i went down the price per job what percentage split or if day rate whats the going rate at the moment

any views appreciated
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Ian101 on March 18, 2012, 08:03:50 am
If it was me I would pay him a percentage of van turnover.

You just need to decide what level.

Do you "pay" him 50% of turnover or 50% of turnover less running costs, 35% or 25% or 60% .. only you would be able to decide.

I dont want to work too many more Saturdays but growing business this year and my son wants to work a Saturday as does my part time helper so if van did £xxx would I split it 3 ways or 50/50 with them sharing the half .. not worked it out yet myself.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: AS Window Cleaning on March 18, 2012, 08:17:36 am
this is an interesting one, I'm in similar position, taking him on 1 day a week. was going to pay him around 80 quid, but thought about paying percentage as incentive too,

was thinking around about 30 percent of total income, or just over, not too sure how much would do together but guessing upwards of 260, which would put him around the 80 a day or better if you pushed on.

guess u need to work out how much likely to do a day, how much he wants/u want to pay, and work out percentage based on that?
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: red star on March 18, 2012, 08:20:06 am
 i was thinking 20% running costs
then 40-40 split

say 20 jobs a day at tenners
200 notes
40 running costs
then 160 split 2 ways
that gives 80 quid

i know when he labours thro the agencies he works for around the 50 quid mark a day so he would be better off
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 18, 2012, 08:21:06 am
I pay them 8 hrs plus incentives to turn up to work and to sign up custies.

they dont work 8 hrs tho, usually off in 6.5.

always pay them monthly tho as it gives you a bit of leverage if they walk out.  theyll always come back for their wages!
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: red star on March 18, 2012, 08:26:57 am
i would have to pay weekly as he lives hand to mouth
he would be dead of starvation he he got nothing for 4 weeks
plus its not a big concern only 1 lad
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 18, 2012, 08:31:46 am
i;d strongly recommend paying him monthly.  when he leaves he may well have some of your equipment or uniform, or keys!!!  when staff leave some of them, or possibly even a lot of them will not do their best to make it easy for you.  they may leave with the hump and then it makes all the difference if they re owed £400 for a couple of weeks work!

you can give him a sub at the start anyhow so he doesnt starve!
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: AS Window Cleaning on March 18, 2012, 09:01:09 am
depends on how well u know the lad I guess, I'm happy paying mine weekly or daily or whatever, he's also a friend so no probs for me on that part, tho if you had no history that's prob a good idea Richard.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Window Washers on March 18, 2012, 10:54:51 am
i;d strongly recommend paying him monthly.  when he leaves he may well have some of your equipment or uniform, or keys!!!  when staff leave some of them, or possibly even a lot of them will not do their best to make it easy for you.  they may leave with the hump and then it makes all the difference if they re owed £400 for a couple of weeks work!

you can give him a sub at the start anyhow so he doesnt starve!
I agree with Richard in as far as paying monthly.

I can understand the part about if they leave but in all honesty if they are going to leave paying monthly is not going to stop them, personally I pay monthly for cash flow it also cuts done on admin costs and payroll which is done via an accountant.

so cash flow and less hassle would be my reasons cashflow being the main one.
I offer a fixed wage plus benifits
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: William McCafferty on March 18, 2012, 11:42:50 am
I pay monthly but have changed the date from the 15th to the end of the month.

I also pay a 30% bonus on all work compleated providing they have reach the monthly turnover figure.

They also recieve the monthly charge of any new customers they get me, if they sign up any customers on a 6 weekly or longer clean, then the yearly charge is pro rated down to the monthly average.

On bad weather, quite days or their days off and they go leafletling, then i pay them £15 per thousand plus the customer charge (this works out on average at £30 per thousand)

and as a final bonus, after 3 years service and they want too, I will give them a franchise with no upfront fee. (new idea)
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 18, 2012, 12:26:59 pm
depends on how well u know the lad I guess, I'm happy paying mine weekly or daily or whatever, he's also a friend so no probs for me on that part, tho if you had no history that's prob a good idea Richard.

i dont think it makes a lot of difference how well you know them.  i employed a lad who had worked for me for 3 years previously, and was the LT boyfriend of my manager.  He was still a lot of hassle when he left.  nothing seriously bad, but a lot of hassle for me trying to run a business.  makes all the difference if you can let them know they get their final wages when theyve handed back their keys etc.

as soon as you start to pay people to do a job it changes your relationship.  when money is involved people can have very strong emotions attached to their behaviour.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: AS Window Cleaning on March 18, 2012, 01:53:39 pm
Richard, guess it depends how good a friend, and kind of person they are ;)

had mine work on and off a few times....no probs so far anyway. maybe I just got lucky.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: bobby p on March 18, 2012, 03:00:59 pm
i was thinking 20% running costs
then 40-40 split

say 20 jobs a day at tenners
200 notes
40 running costs
then 160 split 2 ways
that gives 80 quid

i know when he labours thro the agencies he works for around the 50 quid mark a day so he would be better off

that sounds complicated ,especially running costs arent fixed so could be sky high if something breaks . i just pay an hourly rate .
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: supernova77 on March 18, 2012, 06:23:50 pm
I have a guy who works for me 3 days a week.

When he's out in the van on his own I pay him 55% of the days turnover... When he works a day WITH me then I pay him a day rate.

Andy
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: NJWindowCleaning on March 18, 2012, 06:33:48 pm
You pay him on a self employment basis for example £8.00 per hour @ 40 hours a week = £320.
Pay on the 28th of each Month unless its a Bank Holidays then pay ona earlier date.
And you could pay a bonus for any new customers and turn up each day etc....  :) :)
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: red star on March 18, 2012, 07:59:16 pm
Settled on a week in hand and 40 percent of days takings 5 quid for every new custy paid after 1st clean and his dropping 1000 business cards a week for 25 quid not a bad deal me thinks
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 18, 2012, 08:57:04 pm
You pay him on a self employment basis for example £8.00 per hour @ 40 hours a week = £320.
Pay on the 28th of each Month unless its a Bank Holidays then pay ona earlier date.
And you could pay a bonus for any new customers and turn up each day etc....  :) :)

exactly what i do except i employ.  i'm sure tho that the WCs would think £8 self employed was better than £6.09 employed.  tho the real cost to me is the same.

Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 18, 2012, 08:59:42 pm
I have a guy who works for me 3 days a week.

When he's out in the van on his own I pay him 55% of the days turnover... When he works a day WITH me then I pay him a day rate.

Andy

i;m shocked you pay anyone that much as a WC?  55% of turnover is huge. especially for an unskilled job.  after your costs you must end up with something like 30% of turnover or less.

my guys earn a wage which is below 20% of my turnover at £50 a day.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: mgba_78 on March 18, 2012, 10:46:43 pm
We pay £300 per week regardless of hours worked. As long as at month end hes done no more than 150 hours.
So if we are stacked, like last week, he did over 45 hours, same with this week, then the other 2 weeks are an easy ride and he'll probably end up leafleting,
We find it easier knowing how much we need to pay out, likewise he knows how much hes gonna earn.

So basically like when it snowed and he worked one day he still earnt £300, but the weeks that followed he did more than his 37.5 hours but still earnt £300. Works for us and employee.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Window Washers on March 18, 2012, 11:08:31 pm
Settled on a week in hand and 40 percent of days takings 5 quid for every new custy paid after 1st clean and his dropping 1000 business cards a week for 25 quid not a bad deal me thinks
Means he will earn more than you from your business unless that on profit your paying and not what he turns over
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: richard jagger on March 19, 2012, 05:26:31 am
A good rule oF thumb is 30 % wages 30 % COSTS AND 30% PROFIT FOR THE BUSINESS .
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Window Washers on March 19, 2012, 08:36:13 am
A good rule oF thumb is 30 % wages 30 % COSTS AND 30% PROFIT FOR THE BUSINESS .
I have to ask what happens to the 10% ::)
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on March 19, 2012, 04:47:22 pm
A good rule oF thumb is 30 % wages 30 % COSTS AND 30% PROFIT FOR THE BUSINESS .
I have to ask what happens to the 10% ::)

Under the mattress ask me no questions i will tell you no lies  :o
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: supernova77 on March 19, 2012, 05:51:59 pm
Quote
i;m shocked you pay anyone that much as a WC?  55% of turnover is huge. especially for an unskilled job.  after your costs you must end up with something like 30% of turnover or less.

my guys earn a wage which is below 20% of my turnover at £50 a day.

55% works for me... He earn's decent money, it keeps him happy and doing a good job. £50 a day is nothing - Whats your employee retention like?

Andy
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: supernova77 on March 19, 2012, 05:54:53 pm
Quote
A good rule oF thumb is 30 % wages 30 % COSTS AND 30% PROFIT FOR THE BUSINESS .

So if I worker turned over £200 in a day, he would only get £60 ?     Costs would be no where near £60 unless he was using a lot of fuel driving miles?

Andy
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Window Washers on March 19, 2012, 06:05:59 pm
Quote
A good rule oF thumb is 30 % wages 30 % COSTS AND 30% PROFIT FOR THE BUSINESS .

So if I worker turned over £200 in a day, he would only get £60 ?     Costs would be no where near £60 unless he was using a lot of fuel driving miles?

Andy
Andy you would be shocked at the cost of what a customer costs you, fine detail it and see what it really costs you, I did this the other day with someone on the phone to show what I meant they where shocked, good for you for paying 55% of your business to someone that does not have to run it, thats a cracking deal for them not so cracking for you. do you pay him this at the end of the day week or when you get paid ? how does the NI and tax and your contribution work in these figures ?
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 19, 2012, 10:40:51 pm
Quote
i;m shocked you pay anyone that much as a WC?  55% of turnover is huge. especially for an unskilled job.  after your costs you must end up with something like 30% of turnover or less.

my guys earn a wage which is below 20% of my turnover at £50 a day.

55% works for me... He earn's decent money, it keeps him happy and doing a good job. £50 a day is nothing - Whats your employee retention like?

Andy

employee retention is fine thanks.  i think you're overpaying him by a long way.  but if it works for you, i'm sure he's a happy man so good for you.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: supernova77 on March 20, 2012, 12:56:22 am
Quote
Andy you would be shocked at the cost of what a customer costs you, fine detail it and see what it really costs you, I did this the other day with someone on the phone to show what I meant they where shocked, good for you for paying 55% of your business to someone that does not have to run it, thats a cracking deal for them not so cracking for you. do you pay him this at the end of the day week or when you get paid ? how does the NI and tax and your contribution work in these figures ?

Yeah he is on a good deal... But I earn from him working for me so I' happy to.

He works for me 3 days a week on a self employed basis... He has other work the other 2 days... Yes, he uses my equipment etc so it's a bit of a grey area, is he actually employed or not etc...


Quote
employee retention is fine thanks.  i think you're overpaying him by a long way.  but if it works for you, i'm sure he's a happy man so good for you.

I wasn't having a go in my last post... I just thought £50 is low, just as you think 55% is high... How much does he turn over in a day?

Andy
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: Richard iSparkle on March 21, 2012, 06:44:31 am
Quote
Andy you would be shocked at the cost of what a customer costs you, fine detail it and see what it really costs you, I did this the other day with someone on the phone to show what I meant they where shocked, good for you for paying 55% of your business to someone that does not have to run it, thats a cracking deal for them not so cracking for you. do you pay him this at the end of the day week or when you get paid ? how does the NI and tax and your contribution work in these figures ?

Yeah he is on a good deal... But I earn from him working for me so I' happy to.

He works for me 3 days a week on a self employed basis... He has other work the other 2 days... Yes, he uses my equipment etc so it's a bit of a grey area, is he actually employed or not etc...


Quote
employee retention is fine thanks.  i think you're overpaying him by a long way.  but if it works for you, i'm sure he's a happy man so good for you.

I wasn't having a go in my last post... I just thought £50 is low, just as you think 55% is high... How much does he turn over in a day?

Andy

no problem andy.  they turn over between 320 and 360 a day at that.  paid for 8 hrs work, but finish after 6.5 usually.  give them bonuses for attendance and for signing up newbies, and another bonus for cleaning newbies on same day.

it is a wage for unskilled manual work.  compare it to ground work jobs etc, and this job is much nicer.

once you start employing and expanding, if that's your aim to have a couple of staff...  things get real expensive if you dont keep a really tight handle on them.  if you start someone too high, you cant increase their wage ever, and if you drop it down they will leave.
Title: Re: how to pay staff
Post by: William McCafferty on March 21, 2012, 07:43:35 am
Quote
Yeah he is on a good deal... But I earn from him working for me so I' happy to.

He works for me 3 days a week on a self employed basis... He has other work the other 2 days... Yes, he uses my equipment etc so it's a bit of a grey area, is he actually employed or not etc...


Quote

I wouldn check on this grey area, otherwise you might get a rather large demand from the taxman for his paye and Ni.

If he is declared paye, then you will have to pay him hoilday pay as well.

and the final nail for employing started this year, because employers and employees have to start paying into a pension scheme.

At the moment this only effect big companies with hundreds of workers, but its being spread over the next few years to cover every employer and employee in the country.

So start planning for this extra 3% in employing even a part timer.

to overcome your "grey area", because he also works elsewere, this helps but he does use your equipment free of charge, if you charge him to use the van and wfp/ladders then it should take you out of the grey area.

But double check with an accountant and the taxmans helpline.