Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 08:07:51 pm

Title: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 08:07:51 pm
expect to make?

After the issues regarding dud thread titles this is a little tongue in cheek, but the facts are real, we have 3 vans and cover over 1500+ miles a week doing work for various  
types of work. I refer to us as we but I really mean "I".

"We" as in my young family are living a decent lifestyle for our efforts but with all of these £300 a day sole trader threads and it being a friday night and me having the weekend off I was wondering what you guys would expect to make in my situation.

8 years ago I was working alone out of a seicento with a roof rack on the top and things have accelerated out of control with VAT and going LTD ect.

It isnt all playing sailing and it certainly isnt a "look at me" thread as the real big boys on here wouldnt entertain such a post.

Im loving it as things stand with the help of my wife and im sure that we can improve over the next few years and push on even more,

Back to the original question though how much seriously would you expect to be bringing in from a venture similar to mine.

Dean




Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Moderator David@stives on February 17, 2012, 08:11:21 pm
Hi Dean

I know how much you roll over, but it isnt enough for that staffing level.

I think you are approx 46% off what you should be achieving
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 08:13:55 pm
Hi Dean

I know how much you roll over, but it isnt enough for that staffing level.

I think you are approx 46% off what you should be achieving

46%???

I was thinking more around 49%.

Thanks for your feedback though, I will take it in and push on.  :)

Dean
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Moderator David@stives on February 17, 2012, 08:21:16 pm
thats what I like about you dean, Always showing off, "look at me"  "look at me"

me me me me em me em me me me me    ;D

Fair play to you though, for being brave enough to talk about your business, I am too scared myself  these days, I cant even show a pic anymore, i am not allowed to talk about my business, I usually get shot down in flames.  :'(
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on February 17, 2012, 08:22:34 pm
dean i think i got a good knowledge
of you business
but only you can answer the question
yr asking !!!
i would say yr substansibly better off now
but as you say windows can be distressing at times
also very rewarding at times !!!
the vast majority of our revenue
goes back into our business
ie equipment breaks unless yr richy wilts n own a shop!!!
vans need replacing
staff come n go etc
but infront of every good general
theres a army of good men .
best wishes for '12 Gav  ;)
onwards n upwards
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Steve CM on February 17, 2012, 08:24:50 pm
At that level of man power i would expect to make over 100k a year after costs
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Richard iSparkle on February 17, 2012, 08:28:33 pm
expect to make?

After the issues regarding dud thread titles this is a little tongue in cheek, but the facts are real, we have 3 vans and cover over 1500+ miles a week doing work for various  
types of work. I refer to us as we but I really mean "I".

"We" as in my young family are living a decent lifestyle for our efforts but with all of these £300 a day sole trader threads and it being a friday night and me having the weekend off I was wondering what you guys would expect to make in my situation.

8 years ago I was working alone out of a seicento with a roof rack on the top and things have accelerated out of control with VAT and going LTD ect.

It isnt all playing sailing and it certainly isnt a "look at me" thread as the real big boys on here wouldnt entertain such a post.

Im loving it as things stand with the help of my wife and im sure that we can improve over the next few years and push on even more,

Back to the original question though how much seriously would you expect to be bringing in from a venture similar to mine.

Dean






I'm going to make a beer mat sketch of £40 000 profit per van with 4 FT employees working on them, and another £27 000 profit off the 3rd van with 2 PT workers, so that's £107 000 profit a year, turnover around £260 000?

Howzat?  :-\
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 08:29:20 pm
thats what I like about you dean, Always showing off, "look at me"  "look at me"

me me me me em me em me me me me    ;D

Fair play yo you though,for being brave enough to talk about your business, i am too scared these days, i cant even show a pic anymore, i am not allowed to talk about my business anymore, i usually get shot down in flames.  :'(

Gav I totally agree mate,

I a text re that work in a minute,
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: king marko on February 17, 2012, 08:30:54 pm
I'm gonna make meself look a right tit here but hey ho -
Let's assume you do about £4/5 k a month + 4 full time x £4/5k a month + 2 part time @ £1k a month each
Total £29k a month (top estimate) £22k (bottom)
Sorry if that's way out  ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Simon@ Clearview contractors on February 17, 2012, 08:31:45 pm
4k per week minimum.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: windowcleaninginessex.co.uk on February 17, 2012, 08:32:38 pm
dean i think i got a good knowledge
of you business
but only you can answer the question
yr asking !!!
i would say yr substansibly better off now
but as you say windows can be distressing at times
also very rewarding at times !!!
the vast majority of our revenue
goes back into our business
ie equipmebt breaks unless yr richy wilts n own a shop!!!
vans need replacing
staff come n go etc
but infront of every good general
theres a army of good men .
best wishes for '12 Gav  ;)
onwards n upwards
Gav,
Good quote and true.... I know you post on here a lot, but this is the 1st time I have understood your writing without reading it 2 or 3 times. Please write like this again no abbreviations.
DARREN
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 08:33:47 pm
At that level of man power i would expect to make over 100k a year after costs

Good answer Steve but it isnt that,

Thats what would be expected for the headache you would think wouldnt you?

Especially if im contributing £3-400 to the pot as a bare minimum.

A couple of my guys are members on here who dont really post but the 2 part timers are as said at best part timers.

Its all good fun though,

Dean
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 08:38:26 pm
thats what I like about you dean, Always showing off, "look at me"  "look at me"

me me me me em me em me me me me    ;D

Fair play yo you though,for being brave enough to talk about your business, i am too scared these days, i cant even show a pic anymore, i am not allowed to talk about my business anymore, i usually get shot down in flames.  :'(

Gav I totally agree mate,

I will text re that work in a minute,
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: james peters on February 17, 2012, 08:57:26 pm
profit after everything £1400 a week.... thats week in week out 52 weeks a year....
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 09:52:48 pm
expect to make?

After the issues regarding dud thread titles this is a little tongue in cheek, but the facts are real, we have 3 vans and cover over 1500+ miles a week doing work for various  
types of work. I refer to us as we but I really mean "I".

"We" as in my young family are living a decent lifestyle for our efforts but with all of these £300 a day sole trader threads and it being a friday night and me having the weekend off I was wondering what you guys would expect to make in my situation.

8 years ago I was working alone out of a seicento with a roof rack on the top and things have accelerated out of control with VAT and going LTD ect.

It isnt all playing sailing and it certainly isnt a "look at me" thread as the real big boys on here wouldnt entertain such a post.

Im loving it as things stand with the help of my wife and im sure that we can improve over the next few years and push on even more,

Back to the original question though how much seriously would you expect to be bringing in from a venture similar to mine.

Dean






I'm going to make a beer mat sketch of £40 000 profit per van with 4 FT employees working on them, and another £27 000 profit off the 3rd van with 2 PT workers, so that's £107 000 profit a year, turnover around £260 000?

Howzat?  :-\

That's a good effort at a guess mate,  is that what you would want?

Cheers,

Dean.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 09:55:26 pm
I'm gonna make meself look a right tit here but hey ho -
Let's assume you do about £4/5 k a month + 4 full time x £4/5k a month + 2 part time @ £1k a month each
Total £29k a month (top estimate) £22k (bottom)
Sorry if that's way out  ;D

Are you from nottingham mate?
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 17, 2012, 09:59:18 pm
profit after everything £1400 a week.... thats week in week out 52 weeks a year....

Fantastic guess mate and I can't fault it. But what happens if a driver is off and you have to work yourself whilst paying the driver who isn't in for being off.

Its all good fun.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: David Kent @ KentKleen on February 17, 2012, 10:00:09 pm
I would 'want' to be earning 60 to 70k a year up here in the dark north east from your set up!
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on February 17, 2012, 10:06:44 pm
i love to earn his salary and dont
forget his dividend now he's ltd  ;D
payable 3x a year lol ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Richard iSparkle on February 17, 2012, 10:08:01 pm


I'm going to make a beer mat sketch of £40 000 profit per van with 4 FT employees working on them, and another £27 000 profit off the 3rd van with 2 PT workers, so that's £107 000 profit a year, turnover around £260 000?

Howzat?  :-\
[/quote]

That's a good effort at a guess mate,  is that what you would want?

Cheers,

Dean.
[/quote]

hey dean.

from my position now, that money would definitely come in handy!  i hear what you re saying about staff and stress, and i guess you only know if it's worth it when you get there...

i reckon those figures are the minimum i would want for that sort of set-up...  i think you can get more profit out of it, but how much extra work that'd be ...  i;m not sure  :P
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: king marko on February 17, 2012, 10:08:54 pm
I'm gonna make meself look a right tit here but hey ho -
Let's assume you do about £4/5 k a month + 4 full time x £4/5k a month + 2 part time @ £1k a month each
Total £29k a month (top estimate) £22k (bottom)
Sorry if that's way out  ;D

Are you from nottingham mate?
Lincs
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: king marko on February 17, 2012, 10:12:22 pm
I'm gonna make meself look a right tit here but hey ho -
Let's assume you do about £4/5 k a month + 4 full time x £4/5k a month + 2 part time @ £1k a month each
Total £29k a month (top estimate) £22k (bottom)
Sorry if that's way out  ;D

Are you from nottingham mate?
Lincs
But have supported the reds for 30 yrs man and boy ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: james peters on February 17, 2012, 10:13:28 pm
after all costs ....1400 a week ...thats 52 weeks a year........
bit of a headache though :o
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: D woods on February 17, 2012, 10:20:50 pm
After all expenses you would want to be making a minimum of £100,000 per year
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: William McCafferty on February 17, 2012, 10:24:28 pm
Hi Dean

there are many factors to look at when trying to work this one out, for a start what type of work is it, how much you charge, do they work on their own or in teams to start.

Personally I have the following figures for my staff

Full Time
1 man in a van is £1000 per week
2 men in one van £1500 per week

Part Time
1 man in van £200 per day
2 men in van £300 per day

Gross profit @ 38%
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: britishwill on February 17, 2012, 10:33:12 pm
Thats exactly what mine is Pure Hydro.

Those figures are achieveable and realistic some weeks better some weeks worse but all evens out!
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Moderator David@stives on February 17, 2012, 11:13:25 pm
Once you staff with admin girl and a right hand man, which you will need to keep your sanity you will be lucky to hit 25% net profit.

even less when you get premises
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on February 17, 2012, 11:17:17 pm
he can afford staff and admin girl
outa his dividend ;D ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Roy Cauldery on February 17, 2012, 11:22:29 pm
Hi Dean , i think your playing games with all of us to see who you can sub work too!! ;D
At those levels , you should be hitting 250k easy  ;D ;D and that's without you being on the tools!!
You got any work in Kent going mate??

Regards
Roy  ;)
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: deeege on February 17, 2012, 11:24:28 pm
What are your average fuel costs per week Dean? That's some serious mileage your doing there.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on February 17, 2012, 11:27:21 pm
his fuel costs r half of the rest
of us honest lads
dean runs on red diesel  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Roy Cauldery on February 17, 2012, 11:34:58 pm
his fuel costs r half of the rest
of us honest lads
dean runs on red diesel  ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/quote
Got an ibc on the back of a Massey fergurson ?
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on February 18, 2012, 12:02:33 am
my fuel bills on the other hand av also
being dramatically reduced
since i had my van wrapped
with a window clean direct livery
i just fill up on richy wilts
account at my leisure  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Cbs Cleaning on February 18, 2012, 02:59:25 am
Looks to me like Dean's been drinking?
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 18, 2012, 04:03:02 am
Looks to me like Dean's been drinking?

I see that you are still online at 4am from friday night, where as I'm awake and ready for work even though I have a day off,

Sad I know,

It looks like somebody else has been drinking???

Dean.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Ian Rochester on February 18, 2012, 06:49:35 am
Interesting to hear what people think the "profits" of this size of business are.  Our window cleaning side is roughly the same size as Dean's and if I was making £100K profit from it I'd be a very happy bunny.

As the business grows so does the overheads:

- A workshop/ lockup area becomes essential
- Vehicle running costs increase (regardless of how well they tell you they are driving, it's not their vehicles and they will never care for it like you did!)
- Equipment costs go up for the same reason, it's not their equipment.
- You spend less time on the tools and more time on managing the business, therefore becoming a cost to the business rather than a source of income.
- Hit £72,000 and you have to become VAT registered, which immediatly puts you 20% more expensive than your sole trader down the road who works from home, has minimal overheads and pockets half the money before the tax man sees it  ;)

We have 6 excellent workers and I'm not knocking any of them, however we are still not making the margins that people perceive are possible.

It is not a linear scale, if you're making £30K profit now, by taking 4 people on will not increase your profit by £120K.

I'm off to work now to open up for three lads who are working this morning.  :)
 
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on February 18, 2012, 07:25:38 am
He be lucky if he is making 30k a year dont forget loads of the work is subbed and he only recentley went VAT registered.
Good luck to you lots of hassle for not to much return
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 18, 2012, 08:00:32 am
He be lucky if he is making 30k a year dont forget loads of the work is subbed and he only recentley went VAT registered.
Good luck to you lots of hassle for not to much return

Window cleaning can be very distressing at times. I have spoken about it in the past.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Cbs Cleaning on February 18, 2012, 08:11:05 am
He be lucky if he is making 30k a year dont forget loads of the work is subbed and he only recentley went VAT registered.
Good luck to you lots of hassle for not to much return

Window cleaning can be very distressing at times. I have spoken about it in the past.

Do you always turn to the booze in times of crisis?
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 18, 2012, 08:25:19 am
Sometimes yes, but on this occasion I have just got back from the gym.
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Dean Taberner on February 18, 2012, 09:48:39 am
rtsp://v8.cache8.c.youtube.com/CjMLENy73wIaKgm_Y1yIbTjboxMYJCAkFEIGbXYtcmltSARSBXdhdGNoYPu60MSB4uKeTww=/0/0/0/video.3gp
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: D woods on February 18, 2012, 10:07:25 am
I know of contractors who are running four or five vans turning over lots of money, but making very little if any profit for them selves, reason is they just do not know how to price the work properly.

Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: S.A.J on February 19, 2012, 12:19:52 pm
Hi Dean

there are many factors to look at when trying to work this one out, for a start what type of work is it, how much you charge, do they work on their own or in teams to start.

Personally I have the following figures for my staff

Full Time
1 man in a van is £1000 per week
2 men in one van £1500 per week

Part Time
1 man in van £200 per day
2 men in van £300 per day

Gross profit @ 38%

That's how we now operate!!

3 vans 3 men easy  ;D
Title: Re: If you had yourself, 4 full time men and 2 part time men how much would you
Post by: Frankybadboy on February 19, 2012, 12:53:36 pm
iam not in a postion to say has i dont run a business that size,unlike other who think they are or who think they know what it should be when reailty is they aint got a clue ;)