Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Deangsi on February 14, 2012, 09:45:42 am

Title: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 14, 2012, 09:45:42 am
thought i mite aswell share what controlers me and a couple of mates have used in the past and some are still using. maplin speed regulator buy this for £15 a circuit box a on off switch and a fuse and you have a controller for £20 i used one for two years and am going to purchace another one this week for my second system, also i have quite a few mates who have used them and never have a problem. hears the link if anyone is interested

http://www.maplin.co.uk/panel-mounted-speed-regulator-module-30310

also using these and a pump i have foand for £25 you can build your own trolly system for about £75 if anyone wants parts list for this let me know  ;D
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 14, 2012, 09:55:55 am
While building it, purchasing all the parts, you could of earnt more than what you've saved, by window cleaning....
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 14, 2012, 01:23:17 pm
build it of an evening or weekend and it takes about ten mins about as long as it takes to have a poo
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 14, 2012, 01:44:24 pm
10 minutes, do you want to come and build our trollies?  we seem to take 1 1/2 hours to build our trollies.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: nokmond on February 14, 2012, 02:14:31 pm
I noticed its only rated at 5 amps max - my pump is 7 amp. Have you had any problems?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 14, 2012, 03:24:12 pm
my mate has one on a shurflo pump 100 psi and always been fine so should be ok
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Ian Sheppard on February 14, 2012, 03:27:03 pm
Purpose design and built units are rated to 10 amps - water resistant to IPS64 - 12 month warranty + manufacturer support.
4 quick connections and every thing built in.

Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 14, 2012, 03:36:06 pm
i agree but just thinking of those people starting out with not alot of cash  ;D
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Ian Sheppard on February 14, 2012, 05:05:49 pm
Yes I will agree that it comes down to cost when starting up, there are pro,s and Con,s either way. The forum is a great way to get people thinking and asking questions.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: jouk45 on February 14, 2012, 05:47:59 pm
THIS ONE LOOKS GOOD
http://coolpc.com/Manual-12V-DC-Variable-Speed-controller/M/B002D3DK1I.htm?traffic_src=GB&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=GB&id=uk
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Sean Dyer on February 14, 2012, 06:30:29 pm
I got a varistream for my main system but im gonna stick a 2nd system in for when i get help occasionally and will try one of these cheap controllers ...
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Sean Dyer on February 14, 2012, 06:37:08 pm
THIS ONE LOOKS GOOD
http://coolpc.com/Manual-12V-DC-Variable-Speed-controller/M/B002D3DK1I.htm?traffic_src=GB&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=GB&id=uk

How would you connect this one to a shurflo?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: jouk45 on February 14, 2012, 08:18:58 pm
or go for this one, i see them on ebay from wfp suppliers,  for near 30 quid, all they are is 12v dimmers
http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/goods.php?id=14001498&utm_source=gbuk
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: richard jagger on February 14, 2012, 09:24:40 pm
So glad to see Mr Travain I am glad to see you on CIP care to tell how much this product took to develop. I am sure e bay made a mistake with price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polar-Vak-Gutter-Agitation-Tool-/200707648017?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item2ebb1baa11#ht_500wt_1156
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 14, 2012, 10:18:24 pm
So glad to see Mr Travain I am glad to see you on CIP care to tell how much this product took to develop. I am sure e bay made a mistake with price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polar-Vak-Gutter-Agitation-Tool-/200707648017?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item2ebb1baa11#ht_500wt_1156



Hello mr wizkid,   Vat in price/angle neck in price/jubilee in price/ steel in price/engineer on my ind est who squashes the end and sends to powder coating in price/ then being as we are a business a profit , any more questions please come back.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 14, 2012, 10:22:15 pm
By the way what is CIP?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: richard jagger on February 15, 2012, 12:01:51 am
CIP: care in pricing. Just seemed a little pricey for such a basic thing.Touched a nerve did I ?  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 15, 2012, 08:36:36 am
No nerve touched... Your obviously a little simple and do not understand costings... Are you charging £ 2.50 for a 0ap's  bunglow? No I guess a little more due to the fact that a business needs to make a profit.

So if you had a company that is manufacturing items, you'd no that everything adds up, at Polarbrite our prices are at a reasonable rate, and we are not in the habit of ripping ANYBODY off, if your concerned about any more of our prices please come and see me to discuss them.....

Many thanks
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Dave Willis on February 15, 2012, 08:52:38 am
No nerve touched... Your obviously a little simple and do not understand costings... Are you charging £ 2.50 for a 0ap's  bunglow? No I guess a little more due to the fact that a business needs to make a profit.

So if you had a company that is manufacturing items, you'd no that everything adds up, at Polarbrite our prices are at a reasonable rate, and we are not in the habit of ripping ANYBODY off, if your concerned about any more of our prices please come and see me to discuss them.....

Many thanks

Whizzkid, the guy who treads on the end of that pipe needs paying his minimum wage plus he gets through four pairs of boots a year and several pork pies a day. Then there is that jubilee clip, not any old clip but a special one. Then there were the months and months of R&D that went into producing such a fine tool. CAAD operators don't come cheap you know!
Beggars belief how Gardiners can produce a Resi-neck with swivel so cheaply - they must scrimp on the pork pies  ??? ???
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 15, 2012, 09:02:59 am
That item which is 27.50 + vat, so what is your argument? You tunnel visioned fool!

This chap will not get wound up, so keep it coming... Tunnel vision characters ... You could even mention ALDI, lidal vacuum cleaners if you like!
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: andyM on February 15, 2012, 09:19:20 am
Have you seen the price of pork pies lately?
Extortionate!  >:(
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 15, 2012, 09:55:16 am
THIS ONE LOOKS GOOD
http://coolpc.com/Manual-12V-DC-Variable-Speed-controller/M/B002D3DK1I.htm?traffic_src=GB&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=GB&id=uk

does look tidy could do with knowing what amp its rated to good find tho :)
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 15, 2012, 09:57:16 am
or go for this one, i see them on ebay from wfp suppliers,  for near 30 quid, all they are is 12v dimmers
http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/goods.php?id=14001498&utm_source=gbuk

i bought 5 of these of ebay from hong kong at £3 delivered and they all broke straight away >:(
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Nathanael Jones on February 15, 2012, 11:15:33 am
or go for this one, i see them on ebay from wfp suppliers,  for near 30 quid, all they are is 12v dimmers
http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/goods.php?id=14001498&utm_source=gbuk

i bought 5 of these of ebay from hong kong at £3 delivered and they all broke straight away >:(

Dimmers will not work, you need a 12v PWM speed controller. They are cheap (less than £10 on ebay) but by the time you add the waterproof box, the waterproof on/off switch, the cable gland and the time it takes messing around assembling them,.. its really is better to buy one ready made,
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Ian Sheppard on February 15, 2012, 12:26:15 pm
While I can see the argument on cost may influence a start up cleaner.

Both Craig and Nat are right on the development side and cost.

Development is done with the cleaners in mind and the features they look and ask for - Hence controls with Volt meters and battery warnings ECT there is a significant investment in time and testing to get to where we are.
The latest controls can take 6 months to get to production ready so we are confident they will perform in the field.

The low cost controls - dimmer switches ECT have technology that is 7 - 10 years old. these were not designed with WFP in mind as Nat points out.
If you have a 5 amp rated controller and a 7 amp rated pump run your pump close to full speed and you will burn out the controller. Ok you can replace it for peanuts, that said replace it 3 or 4 times in quick succession and the Peanuts add up.

These controls are cheap because as soon as the (overseas company who has copied old technology that might work for a bit) has your money that,s the last you hear from them.

Unlike our Distributors who will give support to the product as do we.
 
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: H S and Son on February 15, 2012, 01:41:29 pm
The cheapest way is to not have a controller at all. Once you've worked without one you wont be going back. And it saves water.


I call that win win.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Ian Sheppard on February 15, 2012, 02:27:09 pm
Interesting point - How do you control your water flow? With no controller the pump works flat out pumping the maximum volume of water per minute - how does this save water when compared to a regulator of some kind?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 15, 2012, 02:57:06 pm
he has a t piece with a tap that you can let so much of the flow return to the tank. thats a guess. thats what i am using at the moment untill my van is fixed :)
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Nathanael Jones on February 15, 2012, 03:06:16 pm
he has a t piece with a tap that you can let so much of the flow return to the tank. thats a guess. thats what i am using at the moment untill my van is fixed :)

That works,.. but running your pump flat out will shorten the lifespan of the pump & drain your battery a lot quicker,..
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: H S and Son on February 15, 2012, 03:06:37 pm
he has a t piece with a tap that you can let so much of the flow return to the tank. thats a guess. thats what i am using at the moment untill my van is fixed :)

No, you rinse at 100% flow-rate.

Interesting point - How do you control your water flow? With no controller the pump works flat out pumping the maximum volume of water per minute - how does this save water when compared to a regulator of some kind?

Because with a controller you ponce around, sorry but thats what it is, with the water dribbling down the window at 55% its potential. With a controller you rinse as quickly as is feasibly possible and move on.

You earn more money, everyday, because your not standing waiting to finish one piece if glass before you can move on to the next.

Never had any of the problems Nat has suggested. My battery lasts a year, which is reasonable and my pump is 3 years old.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 15, 2012, 03:28:38 pm
the pressure you get in your hoses must be alot, and iv noticed some cleaners say they are saving water matt and mark lwc hehe :P but it takes alot longer with a slow flow so to be honest u mite aswell have a fast flow clean quicker and earn more per hour! but it can get to the point where its is squirting out that fast it doesnt make a difference need to find the happy medium.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Ian Sheppard on February 15, 2012, 03:51:02 pm
Thanks for the info Matt.  You could say the only rule when it comes to flow rate is that there is no rule.
Every one has their system set as they like it, Controllers are not for everyone. They can offer some extra flexibility to those who do.

Deangsi point about pressure build up is a valid one running the pump at maximum will build pressure. The Pump pressure switch will cut in if it gets to high. It is possible the pressure switch will fail if it is relied on as the sole means of stopping high pressure build up.

Failed pressure switches and worn pumps were among the reasons controllers came about. and why we continue to develop the control to give as much flexibility as possible.

It is why our controls are designed to work with a pump pressure switch and we advise to leave them in line. The control can do more than just regulate water flow.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on February 15, 2012, 04:17:05 pm
I couldn't work without a controller. In 8 years wfp I've worked without one & I've worked with a bypass too.

Without doubt using a controller is the only way for me & the list of benefits are too long for me to be arsed to write! :)
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: LWC on February 15, 2012, 04:28:12 pm
I use one of these cheap controllers deans put up, been on system about a year and really pleased with it!

I have it turned right up with 2 reels going off it, and about 1/2 for one reel, plenty of water coming out.

Dean we DO NOT have the water coming out slow lol, we are concerned about saving water yes only having 350 litres on board, but like you say if you have it on quicker you get the work done quicker.

Anyway, thumbs up to the cheap controller.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 15, 2012, 04:38:20 pm
i like your system matt what happens when the pressure builds up on the shurflo ? does it just shut down ? i have managed to fix one of our old pumps me and mark had and i mite use that in the same way as you. if i have two pumps on the go will i have to have two outlets of the tank or would a simple t piece work from the one outlet?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: LWC on February 15, 2012, 05:12:42 pm
On the vivaro i had there was a simple T, dont need 2 outlets. And yes the shurflo shuts off when it builds up.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: H S and Son on February 15, 2012, 05:20:37 pm
i like your system matt what happens when the pressure builds up on the shurflo ? does it just shut down ? i have managed to fix one of our old pumps me and mark had and i mite use that in the same way as you. if i have two pumps on the go will i have to have two outlets of the tank or would a simple t piece work from the one outlet?

Pumps have a built in pressure switch, it turns the pump off anyway when you reach that pressure. So you're installing something that you already have in the system, whats the pojnt of that?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: LWC on February 15, 2012, 05:24:52 pm
i like your system matt what happens when the pressure builds up on the shurflo ? does it just shut down ? i have managed to fix one of our old pumps me and mark had and i mite use that in the same way as you. if i have two pumps on the go will i have to have two outlets of the tank or would a simple t piece work from the one outlet?

Pumps have a built in pressure switch, it turns the pump off anyway when you reach that pressure. So you're installing something that you already have in the system, whats the pojnt of that?

Think he was asking if it still switches off with the controller matt ;)
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 15, 2012, 06:24:35 pm
i like your system matt what happens when the pressure builds up on the shurflo ? does it just shut down ? i have managed to fix one of our old pumps me and mark had and i mite use that in the same way as you. if i have two pumps on the go will i have to have two outlets of the tank or would a simple t piece work from the one outlet?

Pumps have a built in pressure switch, it turns the pump off anyway when you reach that pressure. So you're installing something that you already have in the system, whats the pojnt of that?



Ive had 3 people come in this week whos pressure switches on their pump have gone due to cold, Ive by passed it and got them running, because they have one of our digi flow controllers, so instantly saved cost of a new pump, happy days.
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: andyM on February 15, 2012, 06:33:04 pm
Sainsbury's and Waitrose seem to be offering the best deals at the moment  ;)
http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/grocery-categories/fresh_pork_pies_in_tesco.html
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: davids3511 on February 15, 2012, 07:15:49 pm
i like your system matt what happens when the pressure builds up on the shurflo ? does it just shut down ? i have managed to fix one of our old pumps me and mark had and i mite use that in the same way as you. if i have two pumps on the go will i have to have two outlets of the tank or would a simple t piece work from the one outlet?

Pumps have a built in pressure switch, it turns the pump off anyway when you reach that pressure. So you're installing something that you already have in the system, whats the pojnt of that?



Ive had 3 people come in this week whos pressure switches on their pump have gone due to cold, Ive by passed it and got them running, because they have one of our digi flow controllers, so instantly saved cost of a new pump, happy days.
Didn't it save the the price of a new pressure switch, not a new pump?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: nokmond on February 15, 2012, 07:42:35 pm
Hope you realise shurflo pressure switches are £1.69 from maplin and not buying the full bottom end of the pump for £25+
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: richard jagger on February 15, 2012, 07:49:06 pm
No nerve touched... Your obviously a little simple and do not understand costings... Are you charging £ 2.50 for a 0ap's  bunglow? No I guess a little more due to the fact that a business needs to make a profit.
You are so right a business must make a profit and at the same time value for money.
I am not simple and have a sound understanding of business costing I would not be surprised if I started my first business before you were born. Not all window cleaner are undereducated  there are some smart cookies among us. I think you underestimate intelligence of this industry . I have been in business for over 40 years and hold a B Com. degree from the the University of Stellenbosh. In business management so costing is like petty cash to me. It might help to remember who your customer are. Attact is not the best line of defence in business. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Dave Willis on February 15, 2012, 07:56:15 pm
I'm confused, why do some controllers use the pumps pressure switch whilst others don't?
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Spruce on February 15, 2012, 08:41:30 pm
I'm confused, why do some controllers use the pumps pressure switch whilst others don't?

Because it's cheaper to make a controller that still utilises the pump's cutoff switch. The controller just reduces the speed at which the motor turns so the pump delivers less water but once you dead end the water flow the pump's pressure switch will cut the pump at what it is set at - say 95psi.

Other controllers that are more expensive do away with the operation of the pressure switch and allow you to regulate the flow and pressure that suits you electronically - hence less wear and tear on the pump, fittings etc. The pump in my son's van is 5 years old and the pump in my van is nearly 7 years old - both Shurflo pumps with Varistream controllers.

I once put a water pressure gauge on the pump on my van to see out of interest where I had set it to my requirements - It was around 55 psi.

Spruce
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 15, 2012, 10:03:52 pm
No nerve touched... Your obviously a little simple and do not understand costings... Are you charging £ 2.50 for a 0ap's  bunglow? No I guess a little more due to the fact that a business needs to make a profit.
You are so right a business must make a profit and at the same time value for money.
I am not simple and have a sound understanding of business costing I would not be surprised if I started my first business before you were born. Not all window cleaner are undereducated  there are some smart cookies among us. I think you underestimate intelligence of this industry . I have been in business for over 40 years and hold a B Com. degree from the the University of Stellenbosh. In business management so costing is like petty cash to me. It might help to remember who your customer are. Attact is not the best line of defence in business. ;D ;D


I'm not suggesting window cleaners are, I've been in the cleaning industry since I left school at 16 in 1988, so who would I be to judge, what I am judging is your attitude towards my products...

80% of my company is our cleaning company where I can test our equipment , the other 20% of my company is my cleaning and janitorial supply company, where I can confidently Market these products... Of which our trade counter and web site has many happy customers.

And most view our prices as cost effective.


Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Craig Trevain on February 15, 2012, 10:06:44 pm
All so if CT( east )Ltd. ( Polarbrite) is that much of a rip off, why have we grown as a compAny year after year since 2000, I guess this is because we are competitive .
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: rosskesava on February 15, 2012, 11:09:25 pm
ding ding..... round 2
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: LWC on February 16, 2012, 07:24:13 am
What the heck are they going on about  ;D
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Ian Sheppard on February 16, 2012, 08:46:52 am
I'm confused, why do some controllers use the pumps pressure switch whilst others don't?

Because it's cheaper to make a controller that still utilises the pump's cutoff switch. The controller just reduces the speed at which the motor turns so the pump delivers less water but once you dead end the water flow the pump's pressure switch will cut the pump at what it is set at - say 95psi.

Other controllers that are more expensive do away with the operation of the pressure switch and allow you to regulate the flow and pressure that suits you electronically - hence less wear and tear on the pump, fittings etc. The pump in my son's van is 5 years old and the pump in my van is nearly 7 years old - both Shurflo pumps with Varistream controllers.

I once put a water pressure gauge on the pump on my van to see out of interest where I had set it to my requirements - It was around 55 psi.

Spruce

Some good points here. That show how using a purpose designed control can give years of service, I have come across some of our early analogues that are going strong after 5 - 6 and 7 years. These units perform a basic funtion very much as described by spruce EG they slow the pump down reducing wear and tear and water use.

As our understanding of how a WFP systems works, in particular pressure when in DE.
We made an engineering decision to design a controller that would run with a pressure switch. It took a lot of time and coding of the processor to achieve this, The cheap option for us would have been not to include this in the design.

We found that disconnecting the pump pressure switch could lead to high pressure build up while in DE. 
With some controllers the pressure will just continue to build up with nothing to stop it.

Left in this DE situation with no pump pressure switch, can mean that hoses connectors will blow or hoses split.
It is also creating a lot of strain on the motor as the pressure has to go somewhere, This can lead to the pump turning - and dumping water somewhere.

By taking the technical route of designing in the pump pressure switch, The pressure switch becomes helps protect the whole system, as the pressure will never get so high that it blows something or dumps water in your van through leaks.

It was important to us that the controller was able to protect the whole system, this is an area we continue to develop. This is one of the differences between our and other controls.


Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 16, 2012, 03:53:51 pm
alot of willy waving going on hear lol thought this was about controlers
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Deangsi on February 16, 2012, 03:54:44 pm
thankyou guys with the constructive comments  ;D
Title: Re: Cheapest controler out there
Post by: Dave Willis on February 16, 2012, 05:06:14 pm
I'm confused, why do some controllers use the pumps pressure switch whilst others don't?

Because it's cheaper to make a controller that still utilises the pump's cutoff switch. The controller just reduces the speed at which the motor turns so the pump delivers less water but once you dead end the water flow the pump's pressure switch will cut the pump at what it is set at - say 95psi.

Other controllers that are more expensive do away with the operation of the pressure switch and allow you to regulate the flow and pressure that suits you electronically - hence less wear and tear on the pump, fittings etc. The pump in my son's van is 5 years old and the pump in my van is nearly 7 years old - both Shurflo pumps with Varistream controllers.

I once put a water pressure gauge on the pump on my van to see out of interest where I had set it to my requirements - It was around 55 psi.

Spruce

Some good points here. That show how using a purpose designed control can give years of service, I have come across some of our early analogues that are going strong after 5 - 6 and 7 years. These units perform a basic funtion very much as described by spruce EG they slow the pump down reducing wear and tear and water use.

As our understanding of how a WFP systems works, in particular pressure when in DE.
We made an engineering decision to design a controller that would run with a pressure switch. It took a lot of time and coding of the processor to achieve this, The cheap option for us would have been not to include this in the design.

We found that disconnecting the pump pressure switch could lead to high pressure build up while in DE. 
With some controllers the pressure will just continue to build up with nothing to stop it.

Left in this DE situation with no pump pressure switch, can mean that hoses connectors will blow or hoses split.
It is also creating a lot of strain on the motor as the pressure has to go somewhere, This can lead to the pump turning - and dumping water somewhere.

By taking the technical route of designing in the pump pressure switch, The pressure switch becomes helps protect the whole system, as the pressure will never get so high that it blows something or dumps water in your van through leaks.

It was important to us that the controller was able to protect the whole system, this is an area we continue to develop. This is one of the differences between our and other controls.




Interesting reply. I have a Varistream that's been giving me no end of trouble especially with too much pressure. I have just fitted a brand new pump and although it's disconnected I know when the Varistream is about to dead end because I can hear the pressure switch click. Most odd.