Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: steeley on February 08, 2012, 01:21:33 pm
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How fed up do you feel with this weather, personally i find it very annoying when you heat van bring in trolley etc, only to find that you reach your 3rd job and the pole hose freezes water as it pumps, i knew this would happen if i used the hose reel on the ground but thought id be safe enough with trolley, can anyone tell me if this still happens with hot water fed pole systems, or is that the answer and way forward??
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Hot is the way forward,...
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Yes, but does it stop your hoses and nozzles freezing up? ;D
I believe hot water freezes faster than cold water, for some weird quantum reason, so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
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hot water systems at www.windowcleaningequipment.co.uk
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so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
Never did with me last year, Ive been using cold this year quite simply because I cant be bothered with all the gas malarky, insurance issues, safety etc. Saying that I've not been stopped by the cold this year.
That business about hot water freezing faster is IMO a simple mis-understanding or people twisting exactly what does occur. Does hot water freeze faster or lose its heat faster than cold water? I think it probably looses any heat faster, however that doesnt mean it'll be frozen before cold water.
Hotter water obviously has more heat to lose, it might lose it at 5°C per minute whereas cold water may lose its heat at 3°C per minute, which is as has been said faster. But if the hot water's temperature is already 45°C whilst the cold waters temperature is only 5°C it'll take the hot water 9 minutes to reach zero whilst it'll only take the cold water something like 2 minutes.
The conclusion being, hot water would most likely enable you to keep working whilst the cold water system may well fail; thus hot water is beneficial. It certainly doesn't mean the hot water system will freeze before the cold water system which is what some peeps on here have tried to imply in the past.
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hot water systems at www.windowcleaningequipment.co.uk
looks interesting is it safe though does it need venting, carbon monoxide loose in back of van doesnt sound great, maybe better to just wait it out till the temp rises above -2 its so frustrating
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so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
Never did with me last year,
Thanks, Matt.
A few times now I've checked my system was running fine in the morning, nothing frozen, but shortly after starting work my nozzles have frozen. I suspect that's because the water I was using was close to freezing already, then the ground sucks even more 'heat' from the water in the hoses resulting in stoppages.
But I remember seeing an experiment on the TV where a bucket of hot water was thrown over one car windscreen and a bucket of cold water was thrown onto another car windscreen.
The hot water froze first. Counter intuitive, I know, but I think the explanation was that the hot water is less dense than the cold and looses heat quicker; or sumpthin'! ???
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Yes, but does it stop your hoses and nozzles freezing up? ;D
I believe hot water freezes faster than cold water, for some weird quantum reason, so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
I find hot lets me work a lot more than I ever could with cold. That said, there are a couple of things I do on really cold days to make life easier:
1: Before I leave home, I run my system for a couple of minutes with the end of my hose in the tank - heating up the whole reel. That way when the hose is laid out in the snow it won't freeze for a good 10 or 15 mins at least.
2: I fill my trad bucket with hot pure water. If the brush/jets ever freeze, a quick dip in the bucket will sort it quickly & once the hot water is flowing you won't have any more problems. :)
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Yes, but does it stop your hoses and nozzles freezing up? ;D
I believe hot water freezes faster than cold water, for some weird quantum reason, so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
I find hot lets me work a lot more than I ever could with cold. That said, there are a couple of things I do on really cold days to make life easier:
1: Before I leave home, I run my system for a couple of minutes with the end of my hose in the tank - heating up the whole reel. That way when the hose is laid out in the snow it won't freeze for a good 10 or 15 mins at least.
2: I fill my trad bucket with hot pure water. If the brush/jets ever freeze, a quick dip in the bucket will sort it quickly & once the hot water is flowing you won't have any more problems. :)
which hot system do you have??
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so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
Never did with me last year,
Thanks, Matt.
A few times now I've checked my system was running fine in the morning, nothing frozen, but shortly after starting work my nozzles have frozen. I suspect that's because the water I was using was close to freezing already, then the ground sucks even more 'heat' from the water in the hoses resulting in stoppages.
But I remember seeing an experiment on the TV where a bucket of hot water was thrown over one car windscreen and a bucket of cold water was thrown onto another car windscreen.
The hot water froze first. Counter intuitive, I know, but I think the explanation was that the hot water is less dense than the cold and looses heat quicker; or sumpthin'! ???
Its confusing. However, refering to that experiment, at some point in the course of that the hot water if it loses its heat faster than the cold surely must be at the same temp as the cold (at some point in time) so wouldnt the hot water then have exactly the same properties as the cold water? Surely it must have. So at that point in time surely it will lose any latent heat at the same rate as the cold, so it couldnt freeze any quicker. ??? ???
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I've a DIY fogwash.
There's a vid of it here (Showing off a frost protect controller I've had built)
http://igg.me/p/65532?a=215355
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I.'ve cleaned a frozen up conni first thing this morning nothing froze . with hot water that is
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Thanks, Matt.
A few times now I've checked my system was running fine in the morning, nothing frozen, but shortly after starting work my nozzles have frozen. I suspect that's because the water I was using was close to freezing already, then the ground sucks even more 'heat' from the water in the hoses resulting in stoppages.
But I remember seeing an experiment on the TV where a bucket of hot water was thrown over one car windscreen and a bucket of cold water was thrown onto another car windscreen.
The hot water froze first. Counter intuitive, I know, but I think the explanation was that the hot water is less dense than the cold and looses heat quicker; or sumpthin'! ???
It's called the Mpemba effect. No one really knows the rules it follows and why the same experiment conducted twice can have different results.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect
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great video nat...
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Havent had any freezing issues yet..(I use and L5 and also have a 300w fishtank heater in van tank overnight).
I also do what Nat does (run heater for a couple of minutes through each reel before starting off in the morning)
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On sub zero days I heat the temperature to warmish say 35-40 degrees. You loose a lot of heat in the hose so that by the time the water gets to the pole the heat has almost gone, however it is still enough to stop it from freezing in the pole.
Compare it to a cold system the water in the tank being maybe 4 C by the time it's gone down the hose to the pole it's more like 1 C, doesn't take a lot to work out what's going to happen at the brush head. The only job I've been frozen off of in the last 2 years was a factory with no heating, all the gear worked fine but it was -10 out and the water froze on the glass meaning we couldn't rinse off properly. Had the factory had the heating on things would have been different.
Simon.
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i started at 930am today on a commercial job and it was -2 outside.NO FREEZING HOSES OR JETS!!and i use a cold system.finished at 315pm £170 better off.
the cold weather has not stopped me working at all this winter yet.i leave oil filled rad on full all night with a duvet over top of my tank.it got down to -7 here last night.no issues whatsoever.
i leave hose and pole running most of the time apart from the odd 5 mins here and there when im tradding ground floor windows and doors.
if i have a break/lunch i wind hose in and leave van running with heater on while im eating/having a brew.i bring trolley and reel in overnight.
last year my jets froze a couple of times but a glass of hot water from a spare flask soon got me up and running again within 2 mins.IVE NEVER HAD A HOSE FREEZE UP ON ME YET!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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I often wonder why you shouldn't put hot / warm water on your windscreen in the cold in case it cracks, but you can clean windows with it, could it crack the glass aswell ??
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Put hot water on your wind-screen from a WFP system should be fine, the problem is caused by the comparison of temperatures (the inside house temp and outside temp)
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i dont understand this hot water freezes faster than cold cuz im trad and in the morning sometimes when its cold and my applicator has gone cold and then the glass freezes a lot of the time i can dip in my bucket of warm/hot water then un-freeze the glass and be quick with a squeegee so i dont have to rub all the ice off glass
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I fitted a boiler last year and the only time i use it is on conservatories that don't have heating. And it will find any weaknesses in the hose, also it comes out lukewarm not that great. But it will not freeze.
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IMMERSION HEATER ELEMENTALs my dear watsons, it's the way forward I'm telling you!
No freezy for me yet, and no cracky glassy either, cos although it's hot in the tank, by the time it comes out of 100m of hose it's barely tepid, but FINE for windows, and keeping hoses nice and flexible too..
No faffing with gas bottles or all the insurance issues that could arise from that, not to mention the space a gas bottle would take up in the van.. No sir!
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I believe hot water freezes faster than cold water, for some weird quantum reason, so does warm water in your hose not freeze if you're working?
Not always. There are many, many variables to take into account and I don't think a wfp system was a consideration when the Mpemba effect was 'discovered'.
Water will freeze when it reaches freezing point.
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I often wonder why you shouldn't put hot / warm water on your windscreen in the cold in case it cracks, but you can clean windows with it, could it crack the glass aswell ??
you can crack glass if the temp of the water is too hi. i've done this myself when i jacked the temp right up on first cleans for a bit. if there is a fault in the glass cutting you can cause this to go. it wont crack a properly cut piece of glass, but of course if the fault is at the seal (where the factory cuts them) you cant see it. if you keep the temp warm, say 30 deg you wont have a problem.
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How fed up do you feel with this weather, personally i find it very annoying when you heat van bring in trolley etc, only to find that you reach your 3rd job and the pole hose freezes water as it pumps, i knew this would happen if i used the hose reel on the ground but thought id be safe enough with trolley, can anyone tell me if this still happens with hot water fed pole systems, or is that the answer and way forward??
the short answer is YES. we had days last year when we had problems with our hotwash (due to batterey probelms it turned out) when the temp was really cold (minus 8 etc). when the hotwash was working we could work no problem, when not working we were slowed down, or couldn't work.