Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: shammy davis jnr on February 01, 2012, 10:25:55 am
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time to scrape a few pennies together for a new van mount needs to be hot water system but which one do u preffer and why
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Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
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Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid
idealrob
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Whys it not legal,
Every burger van, caravan etc carry lpg cylinders,
Why arent they going to die.
And its a few thousand saving ??
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Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid
idealrob
And the "Sweeping Generalisation" award goes to ...
IDEALROB!
Yay!
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In answer to the DIY system, was on about an unsecured tank being the main danger, as well as most lpg tanks and not informing insurance companies, so policy null & void, so could cost thousands more, and we moan about window cleaners undercutting, but most do the same with supplies
idealrob
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In answer to the DIY system, was on about an unsecured tank being the main danger, as well as most lpg tanks and not informing insurance companies, so policy null & void, so could cost thousands more, and we moan about window cleaners undercutting, but most do the same with supplies
idealrob
Yawn.....
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I've no experience with hot but purefreedom seem to be highly rated & very competitive on price.
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Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid
idealrob
why is it not legal .
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i looked at the pure freedom . and its a good system but i knew it was something i could do easy enough which i did ive had no probs and it works well and i saved a lot of dough. i cant understand why anyone would pay all that money on a system when basically its just a bunch of connectors . hey everyone to their own . i paid for mine in weeks on a return . but buying a system its gonna take a lot longer i suppose the real entrepreneurs are the ones who can get up and running and make a profit the quickest .
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If I could afford it then Pure Freedom hot for me. Thing is it's diesel and can be plumbed into the van tank if you wished. No gas cylinders to change and proper box and mounting.
I have the Fogwash which is far cheaper and looks it. It does the job but can be a bit temperamental, needs a gas cylinder change every couple of weeks, really needs a flue. Plus insurance might be a problem.
Pure Freedom is a 500 mile round trip plus at least a days wages lost travelling for me. Fogwash is less than £300 Pure Freedom probably well over £3000 just for the heater and fitting.
Big difference in price just for hot water.
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Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid
idealrob
why is it not legal .
Its not legal if the insurance company have not been informed of a modification, and unsecured load, and if it hits you at speed in a crash, and you then you do survive, whats stopping you from causing further damage to yourselves, or more importantly other road users, is this enough
idealrob
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Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid
idealrob
why is it not legal .
Its not legal if the insurance company have not been informed of a modification, and unsecured load, and if it hits you at speed in a crash, and you then you do survive, whats stopping you from causing further damage to yourselves, or more importantly other road users, is this enough
idealrob
not really because do you need some sort of exclusive qualifacation to bolt a tank to the sub frame. i thi
nk not as for informing the insurance company about modifacations to the van well thats only a phone call. just because pure freedom bolts it to the sub frame doesnt mean they are more qualified to do this than a mechanic or body shop. my tank is fully framed and bolted by a pro and i still paid less than 1400 for the set up compared to pure freedom 3000 or 6500 for a heated system those guys make a lot of money for old rope.
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How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
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How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?
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How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?
By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself. ???
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How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?
By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself. ???
By definition you are securing a tank to a van that will not only modify the handling of it you are also fixing it in place.
Do you honestly think insurance compaines are stupid ?
More so you you think they would pay you out if you have an acciedent ?
Do you think your argument would stand up if you hurt/killed someone ?
this is just my opinion but I think you would be deep in the brown stuff.
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How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?
By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself. ???
By definition you are securing a tank to a van that will not only modify the handling of it you are also fixing it in place.
Do you honestly think insurance compaines are stupid ?
More so you you think they would pay you out if you have an acciedent ?
Do you think your argument would stand up if you hurt/killed someone ?
this is just my opinion but I think you would be deep in the brown stuff.
Totally agree, and i know what i am happy with an ionic crash tested system, and Alexander swan policy, that they know whats professionally fitted, and peace of mind for me or more son to drive, and yes it cost a few hundred pounds more, but as i said above, whats the price on life & peace of mind and blood guilt for me or my son
idealrob
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How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?
By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself. ???
By definition you are securing a tank to a van that will not only modify the handling of it you are also fixing it in place.
Do you honestly think insurance compaines are stupid ?
More so you you think they would pay you out if you have an acciedent ?
Do you think your argument would stand up if you hurt/killed someone ?
this is just my opinion but I think you would be deep in the brown stuff.
Do you know of any cases where they have failed to pay, for example, when a DIY window cleaning van has caused damage with them blaming the equipment carried?
Humour me, I like statistics.
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Know cases when someone has fitted a inew cd/stereo and the car was stolen, and insurance refused to pay as the car stereo was more desirable, never mind the insurance stats, Do you value your life Sunshine Stuart ? You have a VW van which is high on safety
here is a link http://www.window-tools.com/windows/water-fed-poles/van-insurance-for-hot-water/?action=printpage
idealrob
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Know cases when someone has fitted a inew cd/stereo and the car was stolen, and insurance refused to pay as the car stereo was more desirable, never mind the insurance stats, Do you value your life Sunshine ? You have a VW van which is high on safety
idealrob
Yes of course, but I also think that suppliers and insurance companies use fear of death rather than facts to relieve us of money.
I would still like to know the if they have ever failed to payout.
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I would also be happy to see, in writing from the insurance company, the point that a small tank ratchet strapped in is a modification to the van.
Add to that a statement of what is classed as secured.
Any 'dolly' at the other end of the phone can say what she wants to help you decide but will they put it in writing?
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Any 'dolly' at the other end of the phone can say what she wants to help you decide but will they put it in writing?
http://www.alexanderswan.com/windowcleaners.html
We're able to offer very competitive rates on commercial vehicle insurance for Vans fitted with or without WFP Systems. Vans fitted with Water Fed Pole Systems are classed as modified vehicles so this must be disclosed to the insurer. We have a panel of insurers that accept this modification and the policy is endorsed to state that the vehicle is fitted with a Water Fed Pole System to avoid any complications in the event of a claim.
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Any 'dolly' at the other end of the phone can say what she wants to help you decide but will they put it in writing?
http://www.alexanderswan.com/windowcleaners.html
We're able to offer very competitive rates on commercial vehicle insurance for Vans fitted with or without WFP Systems. Vans fitted with Water Fed Pole Systems are classed as modified vehicles so this must be disclosed to the insurer. We have a panel of insurers that accept this modification and the policy is endorsed to state that the vehicle is fitted with a Water Fed Pole System to avoid any complications in the event of a claim.
As I understand it they mean bolted fitted systems rather than a collection of items in the back of a van.
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For sure, they mean systems fitted by a company, rather than joe-bloggs. When I renewed my insurance they were told I had a tank and all they wanted to know was that it weas professionally fitted. They have to start somewhere regarding likely ability of the system to withstand a crash and 'professionally fitted' is their starting point even if joe bloggs could do a better job.
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A competent person can fit a tank that will withstand the forces of a crash as well as any professionally fitted system,.. it takes a lot of thought & a good bit of effort, but it is possible.
That said, I've seen plenty of DIY setups installed installed by complete incompetents,....
ALWAYS inform your insurance,.. it doesn't matter if you consider it a modification or not, it only matters how they consider it.
As for hot,.. an immersion element is by far the cheapest & safest DIY job IMO. I have a fogwash personally, but I've gone to the trouble of installing a flue and multiple vents in the van because of it. Again, its essential to inform your insurance!
I personally like the look of the pure freedom hot, but can't justify the price when compared to DIY.
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A competent person can fit a tank that will withstand the forces of a crash as well as any professionally fitted system,.. it takes a lot of thought & a good bit of effort, but it is possible.
That said, I've seen plenty of DIY setups installed installed by complete incompetents,....Same here, Ive seen a 800L tank held in by 1Tonne strap!
ALWAYS inform your insurance,.. it doesn't matter if you consider it a modification or not, it only matters how they consider it.Again always. Mine knows and does not think that the equipment in my van is modification
As for hot,.. an immersion element is by far the cheapest & safest DIY job IMO. I have a fogwash personally, but I've gone to the trouble of installing a flue and multiple vents in the van because of it. Again, its essential to inform your insurance!As long as the IH has its own fuse on the fuse box. That is a legal requirement.
I personally like the look of the pure freedom hot, but can't justify the price when compared to DIY.
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For sure, they mean systems fitted by a company, rather than joe-bloggs. When I renewed my insurance they were told I had a tank and all they wanted to know was that it weas professionally fitted. They have to start somewhere regarding likely ability of the system to withstand a crash and 'professionally fitted' is their starting point even if joe bloggs could do a better job.
What size tank do you have?
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Like I said - Sweeping generalisation time ...
A DiY system can be fitted competently. Even the Masterguild of Window Cleaners (population 34. ;D) man agrees.
I believe that Idealrob banging on about "bloodguilt" sounds like "righteousness overmuch". ;)
Now if he had said "A DiY system that has not been fitted properly might cause severe injury or even death in an accident" Then fair enough.
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For sure, they mean systems fitted by a company, rather than joe-bloggs. When I renewed my insurance they were told I had a tank and all they wanted to know was that it weas professionally fitted. They have to start somewhere regarding likely ability of the system to withstand a crash and 'professionally fitted' is their starting point even if joe bloggs could do a better job.
What size tank do you have?
350
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Like I said - Sweeping generalisation time ...
A DiY system can be fitted competently. Even the Masterguild of Window Cleaners (population 34. ;D) man agrees.
I believe that Idealrob banging on about "bloodguilt" sounds like "righteousness overmuch". ;)Yes I feel completely clear on the "bloodguilt" statement. The problem on here is that people presume that we all work in the same way. I bet nobody works how I do. And if challenged I would argue that the most picky H&S pedant would struggle to find issue with it.
Now if he had said "A DiY system that has not been fitted properly might cause severe injury or even death in an accident" Then fair enough.
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woooooooooosssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh lol now the insurance is taken care of guys i thank you but its really the pound for pound all rounder im thinking off the gubbings which is the alpha male of the wfp world tryed and tested
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ps.
My 650l tank is secured with eye bolts through the chassis and then ratchet strapped round the tank. I informed my insurance company that the bolts had been fitted by a commercial automotive engineer down the road and they said that's fine. It's not classed as a modification, according to them.
So, anyway, what is the best hot? ;)
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pj you devil you ;D
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professional or diy cowboy make your own mind up,
backpack with a hot water bottle is not for me , nor mobile bombs.
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better off with a set of ladders ;) does away with a bomb in the back and all that ;D
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professional or diy cowboy make your own mind up,
backpack with a hot water bottle is not for me , nor mobile bombs.
Mine was fitted by a commercial automotive engineer, it's safe. You can pay £2-3k to get the same thing tailor fitted if it gives you peace of mind, mine cost about £150.
If you hit something head on fully loaded at anything over 40mph it's going to be bad whatever you've done in the back.
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A tank strapped in & secured via the manufacturers anchor points is not classed as a modification., nor does it make the van "more desirable".
If a builder goes to his merchant & gets loaded up with a pallet of bricks- has he modified his vehicle?
WW- "modify the vans handling"? ;D come'on, please! ???
It's the window cleaners who are to blame for this "excuse" to hike prices. It you who have put the fear of god to the insurance companies! ::)
If you "have" modified your van via bolts, clamps, spreader plates etc & are ped off because of your huge premium & lack of choice (as many companies are now refusing to cover you) then deal with it!! ::)