Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: shammy davis jnr on February 01, 2012, 10:25:55 am

Title: whats hot and whats not
Post by: shammy davis jnr on February 01, 2012, 10:25:55 am
time to scrape a few pennies together for a new van mount needs to be hot water  system but which one do u preffer and why
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: steven ainger on February 01, 2012, 02:17:40 pm
Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: idealrob on February 01, 2012, 02:54:28 pm
Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job

And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not  legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid

idealrob
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: steven ainger on February 01, 2012, 03:14:11 pm
Whys it not legal,
Every burger van, caravan etc carry lpg cylinders,
Why arent they going to die.
And its a few thousand saving ??
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 01, 2012, 03:17:24 pm
Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job

And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not  legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid

idealrob

And the "Sweeping Generalisation" award goes to ...

IDEALROB!


Yay!
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: idealrob on February 01, 2012, 05:12:05 pm
In answer to the DIY system, was on about an unsecured tank being the main danger, as well as most lpg tanks and not informing insurance companies, so policy null & void, so could cost thousands more, and we moan about window cleaners undercutting, but most do the same with supplies

idealrob
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 01, 2012, 06:43:56 pm
In answer to the DIY system, was on about an unsecured tank being the main danger, as well as most lpg tanks and not informing insurance companies, so policy null & void, so could cost thousands more, and we moan about window cleaners undercutting, but most do the same with supplies

idealrob

Yawn.....  
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on February 01, 2012, 06:48:38 pm
I've no experience with hot but purefreedom seem to be highly rated & very competitive on price.

Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: keyser soze on February 01, 2012, 07:04:44 pm
Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job

And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not  legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid

idealrob
why is it not legal .
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: keyser soze on February 01, 2012, 07:13:10 pm
i looked at the pure freedom . and its a good system but i knew it was something i could do easy enough which i did ive had no probs and it works well and i saved a lot of dough. i cant understand why anyone would pay all that money on a system when basically its just a bunch of connectors . hey everyone to their own . i paid for mine in weeks on a return . but buying a system its gonna take a lot longer i suppose the real entrepreneurs are the ones who can get up and running and make a profit the quickest .
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: Dave Willis on February 01, 2012, 07:29:42 pm
If I could afford it then Pure Freedom hot for me. Thing is it's diesel and can be plumbed into the van tank if you wished. No gas cylinders to change and proper box and mounting.
I have the Fogwash which is far cheaper and looks it. It does the job but can be a bit temperamental, needs a gas cylinder change every couple of weeks, really needs a flue. Plus insurance might be a problem.
Pure Freedom is a 500 mile round trip plus at least a days wages lost travelling for me. Fogwash is less than £300 Pure Freedom probably well over £3000 just for the heater and fitting.

Big difference in price just for hot water.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: idealrob on February 01, 2012, 09:07:20 pm
Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job

And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not  legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid

idealrob
why is it not legal .

Its not legal if the insurance company have not been informed of a modification, and unsecured load, and if it hits you at speed in a crash, and you then you do survive, whats stopping you from causing further damage to yourselves, or more importantly other road users, is this enough

idealrob
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: keyser soze on February 01, 2012, 09:55:12 pm
Ive voted diy,
Because its cheap and does the same job

And dont forget it will kill you if involved in a major accident, but lets not forget its cheaper, and not  legal, but whats life matter if you save a few hundred quid

idealrob
why is it not legal .

Its not legal if the insurance company have not been informed of a modification, and unsecured load, and if it hits you at speed in a crash, and you then you do survive, whats stopping you from causing further damage to yourselves, or more importantly other road users, is this enough

idealrob
not really because do you need some sort of exclusive qualifacation to bolt a tank to the sub frame. i thi
nk not as for informing the insurance company about modifacations to the van well thats only a phone call. just because pure freedom bolts it to the sub frame doesnt mean they are more qualified to do this than a mechanic or body shop. my tank is fully framed and bolted by a pro and i still paid less than 1400 for the set up compared to pure freedom 3000 or 6500 for a heated system those guys make a lot of money for old rope.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 01, 2012, 10:12:13 pm
How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: Window Washers on February 01, 2012, 10:17:03 pm
How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 01, 2012, 10:19:42 pm
How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?

By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself.  ???
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: Window Washers on February 01, 2012, 10:26:32 pm
How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?

By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself.  ???
By definition you are securing a tank to a van that will not only modify the handling of it you are also fixing it in place.

Do you honestly think insurance compaines are stupid ?

More so you you think they would pay you out if you have an acciedent ?

Do you think your argument would stand up if you hurt/killed someone ?

this is just my opinion but I think you would be deep in the brown stuff.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: idealrob on February 01, 2012, 10:30:54 pm
How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?

By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself.  ???
By definition you are securing a tank to a van that will not only modify the handling of it you are also fixing it in place.

Do you honestly think insurance compaines are stupid ?

More so you you think they would pay you out if you have an acciedent ?

Do you think your argument would stand up if you hurt/killed someone ?

this is just my opinion but I think you would be deep in the brown stuff.

Totally agree, and i know what i am happy with an ionic crash tested system, and Alexander swan policy, that they know whats professionally fitted, and peace of mind for me or more son to drive, and yes it cost a few hundred pounds more, but as i said above, whats the price on life & peace of mind and blood guilt for me or my son

idealrob
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 01, 2012, 10:31:43 pm
How is it a modification of the van when most DIY users are simply transporting equipment from one site to another?
::) really ?

By definition it will be a collection of equipment put together to perform a task rather than modifying the van itself.  ???
By definition you are securing a tank to a van that will not only modify the handling of it you are also fixing it in place.

Do you honestly think insurance compaines are stupid ?

More so you you think they would pay you out if you have an acciedent ?

Do you think your argument would stand up if you hurt/killed someone ?

this is just my opinion but I think you would be deep in the brown stuff.

Do you know of any cases where they have failed to pay, for example, when a DIY window cleaning van has caused damage with them blaming the equipment carried?

Humour me, I like statistics.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: idealrob on February 01, 2012, 10:42:26 pm
Know cases when someone has fitted a inew cd/stereo and the car was stolen, and insurance refused to pay as the car stereo was more desirable, never mind the insurance stats, Do you value your life Sunshine Stuart  ? You have a VW van which is high on safety

here is a link http://www.window-tools.com/windows/water-fed-poles/van-insurance-for-hot-water/?action=printpage


idealrob
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 01, 2012, 10:48:57 pm
Know cases when someone has fitted a inew cd/stereo and the car was stolen, and insurance refused to pay as the car stereo was more desirable, never mind the insurance stats, Do you value your life Sunshine ? You have a VW van which is high on safety

idealrob

Yes of course, but I also think that suppliers and insurance companies use fear of death rather than facts to relieve us of money.

I would still like to know the if they have ever failed to payout.



Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 01, 2012, 10:59:44 pm
I would also be happy to see, in writing from the insurance company, the point that a small tank ratchet strapped in is a modification to the van.
Add to that a statement  of what is classed as secured.

Any 'dolly' at the other end of the phone can say what she wants to help you decide but will they put it in writing?
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: H S and Son on February 02, 2012, 08:20:11 am
Any 'dolly' at the other end of the phone can say what she wants to help you decide but will they put it in writing?




http://www.alexanderswan.com/windowcleaners.html

Quote
We're able to offer very competitive rates on commercial vehicle insurance for Vans fitted with or without WFP Systems. Vans fitted with Water Fed Pole Systems are classed as modified vehicles so this must be disclosed to the insurer. We have a panel of insurers that accept this modification and the policy is endorsed to state that the vehicle is fitted with a Water Fed Pole System to avoid any complications in the event of a claim.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 02, 2012, 08:22:47 am
Any 'dolly' at the other end of the phone can say what she wants to help you decide but will they put it in writing?




http://www.alexanderswan.com/windowcleaners.html

Quote
We're able to offer very competitive rates on commercial vehicle insurance for Vans fitted with or without WFP Systems. Vans fitted with Water Fed Pole Systems are classed as modified vehicles so this must be disclosed to the insurer. We have a panel of insurers that accept this modification and the policy is endorsed to state that the vehicle is fitted with a Water Fed Pole System to avoid any complications in the event of a claim.


As I understand it they mean bolted fitted systems rather than a collection of items in the back of a van.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: H S and Son on February 02, 2012, 08:28:51 am
For sure, they mean systems fitted by a company, rather than joe-bloggs. When I renewed my insurance they were told I had a tank and all they wanted to know was that it weas professionally fitted. They have to start somewhere regarding likely ability of the system to withstand a crash and 'professionally fitted' is their starting point even if joe bloggs could do a better job.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: Nathanael Jones on February 02, 2012, 08:29:48 am
A competent person can fit a tank that will withstand the forces of a crash as well as any professionally fitted system,.. it takes a lot of thought & a good bit of effort, but it is possible.

That said, I've seen plenty of DIY setups installed installed by complete incompetents,....

ALWAYS inform your insurance,.. it doesn't matter if you consider it a modification or not, it only matters how they consider it.

As for hot,.. an immersion element is by far the cheapest & safest DIY job IMO. I have a fogwash personally, but I've gone to the trouble of installing a flue and multiple vents in the van because of it. Again, its essential to inform your insurance!

I personally like the look of the pure freedom hot, but can't justify the price when compared to DIY.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 02, 2012, 08:37:58 am
A competent person can fit a tank that will withstand the forces of a crash as well as any professionally fitted system,.. it takes a lot of thought & a good bit of effort, but it is possible.

That said, I've seen plenty of DIY setups installed installed by complete incompetents,....Same here, Ive seen a 800L tank held in by 1Tonne strap!

ALWAYS inform your insurance,.. it doesn't matter if you consider it a modification or not, it only matters how they consider it.Again always. Mine knows and does not think that the equipment in my van is modification

As for hot,.. an immersion element is by far the cheapest & safest DIY job IMO. I have a fogwash personally, but I've gone to the trouble of installing a flue and multiple vents in the van because of it. Again, its essential to inform your insurance!As long as the IH has its own fuse on the fuse box. That is a legal requirement. 

I personally like the look of the pure freedom hot, but can't justify the price when compared to DIY.

Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 02, 2012, 08:38:40 am
For sure, they mean systems fitted by a company, rather than joe-bloggs. When I renewed my insurance they were told I had a tank and all they wanted to know was that it weas professionally fitted. They have to start somewhere regarding likely ability of the system to withstand a crash and 'professionally fitted' is their starting point even if joe bloggs could do a better job.

What size tank do you have?
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 02, 2012, 08:44:48 am
Like I said - Sweeping generalisation time ...

A DiY system can be fitted competently. Even the Masterguild of Window Cleaners (population 34. ;D) man agrees.

I believe that Idealrob banging on about "bloodguilt" sounds like "righteousness overmuch".  ;)

Now if he had said "A DiY system that has not been fitted properly might cause severe injury or even death in an accident" Then fair enough.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: H S and Son on February 02, 2012, 08:45:40 am
For sure, they mean systems fitted by a company, rather than joe-bloggs. When I renewed my insurance they were told I had a tank and all they wanted to know was that it weas professionally fitted. They have to start somewhere regarding likely ability of the system to withstand a crash and 'professionally fitted' is their starting point even if joe bloggs could do a better job.

What size tank do you have?

350
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: SunShineCleaning on February 02, 2012, 10:27:21 am
Like I said - Sweeping generalisation time ...

A DiY system can be fitted competently. Even the Masterguild of Window Cleaners (population 34. ;D) man agrees.

I believe that Idealrob banging on about "bloodguilt" sounds like "righteousness overmuch".  ;)Yes I feel completely clear on the "bloodguilt" statement. The problem on here is that people presume that we all work in the same way. I bet nobody works how I do. And if challenged I would argue that the most picky H&S pedant would struggle to find issue with it. 

Now if he had said "A DiY system that has not been fitted properly might cause severe injury or even death in an accident" Then fair enough.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: shammy davis jnr on February 02, 2012, 01:51:07 pm
woooooooooosssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh     lol now the insurance is taken care of guys i thank you  but its really the pound for pound all rounder im thinking off the gubbings  which is the alpha male of the wfp world  tryed and tested
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: Pj on February 02, 2012, 02:03:52 pm
ps.

My 650l tank is secured with eye bolts through the chassis and then ratchet strapped round the tank.  I informed my insurance company that the bolts had been fitted by a commercial automotive engineer down the road and they said that's fine.  It's not classed as a modification, according to them.

So, anyway, what is the best hot? ;)
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: shammy davis jnr on February 02, 2012, 02:22:30 pm
pj  you devil you  ;D
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: pristine window cl on February 02, 2012, 05:52:35 pm
professional or diy cowboy make your own mind up,
backpack with a hot water bottle is not for me , nor mobile bombs.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: david watts on February 02, 2012, 06:22:25 pm
better off with a set of ladders ;) does away with a bomb in the back and all that ;D
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: Pj on February 02, 2012, 06:30:57 pm
professional or diy cowboy make your own mind up,
backpack with a hot water bottle is not for me , nor mobile bombs.
Mine was fitted by a commercial automotive engineer, it's safe.  You can pay £2-3k to get the same thing tailor fitted if it gives you peace of mind, mine cost about £150.
If you hit something head on fully loaded at anything over 40mph it's going to be bad whatever you've done in the back.
Title: Re: whats hot and whats not
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on February 02, 2012, 06:42:30 pm
A tank strapped in & secured via the manufacturers anchor points is not classed as a modification., nor does it make the van "more desirable".

If a builder goes to his merchant & gets loaded up with a pallet of bricks- has he modified his vehicle?

WW- "modify the vans handling"? ;D  come'on, please! ???


It's the window cleaners who are to blame for this "excuse" to hike prices. It you who have put the fear of god to the insurance companies! ::)


If you "have" modified your van via bolts, clamps, spreader plates etc & are ped off because of your huge premium & lack of choice (as many companies are now refusing to cover you) then deal with it!! ::)