Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: [GQC] Tim on January 25, 2012, 11:53:24 pm
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Very very pleased with it.
Installed this some time ago now, but using it everyday in ernest now.
First cleans are incredibly fast. I've been cleaning a private school where some windows hadn't been cleaned for about 2 years. Using a Gardiners Flocked Dual Trim 15 degree splay I only have to go over the glass twice and no spots. It's hard to believe how quick it really is.
On maintenance cleans I use a mono xtreme, and I get away with just going over the glass once. If wfp is cheating, then hot wfp is not working at all, it's just that quick, it really baffles the mind.
When I was using cold wfp I thought hot wfp wasn't necessary, maybe for first cleans but that was just it. When a friend of mind starting talking about how fast he was on maintenance cleans the cogs started turning. What if, what if it's really that fast. Well it is.
First half a house or so the water is going through the reel and only half way through I get some proper heat.
Standard microbore seems to lose the heat very rapidly, chatting, lunch, driving around seems to kill the heat quite quickly. Maybe thermobore hose will solve all of this. Yet to try.
Warm hands on cold mornings is wonderful, reeling the hose in is effortless. Bit more stretch in the hose when going round corners but is okay.
Couple of tips I'd like to give.
Turn down the cut of pressure on your pump controller. On my digital Varistream I've got it at 6, flow at 3. 100m microbore. High pressure makes the hoses swell up excessively and increases the risk of hoses blowing.
Make sure your pump cuts off relatively quickly, otherwise the heater will keep going and going, and the water will get very very hot.
A safefill cannister (or any other refillable) makes life so much easier, and cheap to fill too.
Use proper hose clips on the hoses, tighten them up properly and check them again when the hot system has been running for a while. Then use some loctite so they won't budge. The hoseclips from B&Q are actually excellent. The ones from screwfix maul the little teeth on the metal band and keep clicking, unable to tighten. The B&Q ones tighten so much you can actually squish plastic barbs.
Use some WRAS Speedfit braided hoses on at least the hose coming out of the heater. Forget about hoselock.
The new pro-fit hoselock connectors seem to be fine on the hosereel end.
If using a exhaust pipe, make sure it goes straight up, or as straight as possible. Condensation can still be a problem otherwise.
Settings on the hotwash are just above minimum on the water dial, winter gas setting, and gas on a milimeter or so above the min mark.
My system and bits and bobs needed :
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=132874.0
One last interesting thing. To start with I used to clean with just RO water (9ppm), found it was fine on cold, but on hot it's leaving spots behind, plus it seems to slows you down. So fresh resin in the canisters and it's fine now. Plus it's much quicker then with just RO water, Hot DI water seems to dissolve the dirt very rapidly.
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for me i just cant be bothered with the hassle of it.gas bottles,hoses leaking more etc.added expense in insurances and general running costs.
you maybe right about the faster cleans on some work esp if they are really dirty etc but i do just fine with a cold system.if im cleaning fascias/gutters/ soffits/conny roofs then soaking a bit with just cold water or adding tfr/virosol if their really dirty does the trick.
most of my work is general maintenance window cleaning on domestics.the only thing i would say is softer hoses when its cold would be good but the downside is hoses getting damaged more easily i presume.
regards
dazmond
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thanks for run down Tim. I suspect a lot will say the same about hot as we said about wfp years ago, sure it might be good, but I'm fine with what I've got.
it is more expense and hassle, but by all accounts it's worth it. my major concern is with gas and insurance. and don't like idea of cutting hole for exhaust flu. but one day I'll move up in the world!
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maintenance cleans , i only go over the glass once anyway ..
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I have a Hotwash and find it a complete pain in the arse to be honest. It's comfortable in cold conditions but not needed in milder weather. It can wreck hoses, blow connectors and ruin brushes if too hot. Doesn't make cleaning any faster on maintenance cleans unless you change your technique ie. scrub less or don't rinse. The heat softens the hose and fools the varistream giving too much pressure as you know Tim because you've blown your reel apart as I did.
In summary as a luxury it's great but not needed in milder climates.
I've also found half of it is in the mind - I've been cleaning and thinking like you, hot is brilliant - just look at the way that water is sheeting and drying, then i get back to the van only to find the heater has gone out and I've been cleaning with cold water! ;D
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maintenance cleans , i only go over the glass once anyway ..
And me m8 just the once as there is no need to go over more than once.
It's all about the rinsing not the scrubbing
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For me, hot is better in the summer than the winter.
In the winter i have the water only luke warm, the cleaning benefits are minimal,
In the summer you can turn the heat up which helps to clean the sun baked bird poo and baked on bee spots.
I also dont carry a spray vessel anymore, to pre-treat con' roofs or gutter/fascias.
Just crank the heat up and the grime falls off.
Ive been using hot for 3 1/2 years and i dont have any issues with blown connectors, leaks & the extra running costs are £10 per week for gas, worth every penny imo.
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ive got hot wash but use cold will use it on the frosty mornings when they come !!!! As for faster cleans load of rubbish i think cold cleans just as good as hot with birds mess just give it a soak clean some other windows then go back it comes off pretty easy !!! I gotta say the hot will be good when really cold so good to have !!! as for cost not much a 13kg bottle will last about 7 weeks £25 as for flu havnt got one bolted on back door so not a prob as leave open when i will use hot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I have to agree with Tim. Hot wfp is so much better and faster, but I mean hot not luke warm. I find the same problem with hoses cooling down as well. I hate it if I run out of gas in the middle of the day, cold almost feels unworkable now.
Daz when you have hot wfp you will find that tfr is a thing of the past, sofits and con roofs can be done in literally half the time, the wash and rinse off are all done together.
Simon.
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for me i just cant be bothered with the hassle of it.gas bottles,hoses leaking more etc.added expense in insurances and general running costs.
you maybe right about the faster cleans on some work esp if they are really dirty etc but i do just fine with a cold system.if im cleaning fascias/gutters/ soffits/conny roofs then soaking a bit with just cold water or adding tfr/virosol if their really dirty does the trick.
most of my work is general maintenance window cleaning on domestics.the only thing i would say is softer hoses when its cold would be good but the downside is hoses getting damaged more easily i presume.
regards
dazmond
I used to think exactly that way, now that I'm hot I wouldn't go back. I ran out of gas today and it's just so slow. TFR is very slow and takes time to apply, when you first start doing conservatory roofs and guttering with hot wfp that's when you throw the TFR in the bin. More £ per hour, much more actually on those types of cleans.
Yes it is an investment, not just initial layout, but also the gas, but it's nowhere as much as with a Diesel system. You earn your money back quite quickly.
maintenance cleans , i only go over the glass once anyway ..
Maybe I should have elaborated a bit more. It's mainly down to three things how quick you can be on windows. (Purity, flow of water etc not taken into account as that is a standard given)
1. Frequency of clean
2. Brush used
(3. Time and place of clean.)
On 4 weekly work the difference isn't as big as 6, or 8 weekly cleans. With cold on most 4 weekly work you can get away with just going over the glass once. Today I did a mix of 4 weekly, 6 weekly, 8 weekly, and even 10 weekly. Would you be surprised if I said I went over the glass just once? Even with a Flocked Dual Trim I couldn't do that with Cold on the more longer interval cleans. With Hot I can, easily, even with the Xtreme. The difference isn't just the glass, all the cobwebs, spider nests, snail trails and spider poo just dissolves so easy. With cold you need to really attack that dirt, especially on upvc, with hot it just flies off. Anything more then just the standard dust on the window and frames and hot makes it faster.
2. I like to use the lightest brush possible. Today I just used an mono xtreme with hot. Even on some dirty four weekly cleans you need to be careful that you don't leave spots behind, the mono bristles do not dig in enough to make a real difference, they glide over the glass more, needing more passes. Nice and quick on the glass, but not as effective as say a flocked brush.
The hot makes the mono Xtreme softer and digs in more. When used with Cold I've found the soft xtreme is much better in that regard.
Using my flocked Dual trim with cold I can go over the glass just once on quite a few properties, 4 to 6 weekly. On dirty 6 and 8 weekly cleans even then I had to go twice over the glass. Cold just doesn't dissolve the dirt quickly enough. Again anything more then just the standard dirt, and even on 4 weekly cleans using cold with slow down.
I have a Hotwash and find it a complete pain in the arse to be honest. It's comfortable in cold conditions but not needed in milder weather. It can wreck hoses, blow connectors and ruin brushes if too hot. Doesn't make cleaning any faster on maintenance cleans unless you change your technique ie. scrub less or don't rinse. The heat softens the hose and fools the varistream giving too much pressure as you know Tim because you've blown your reel apart as I did.
In summary as a luxury it's great but not needed in milder climates.
I've also found half of it is in the mind - I've been cleaning and thinking like you, hot is brilliant - just look at the way that water is sheeting and drying, then i get back to the van only to find the heater has gone out and I've been cleaning with cold water!
I do agree it can be tricky setting it up right, but once set up right it's fine. No blown hoses, no ruined brushes (my Gardiner's brushes are just great) and no problems with connectors either. Also, I've bypassed the CO2 sensor, so that it doesn't cut out any more. That actually drove me mad, having to go back to the van.
To get back to the Claber reel, it's just not suitable for heavy handed high tension winding. The plates on the inside are held up with plastic brackets. That's where it went wrong, they just buckled. I've bent it all back in shape, being a little less heavy handed on the reel and it's fine. Because of the stretch in the hose I can't reel it in around tricky obstacles any more, because the tension on the reel is too much. Then it starts to deform. Any professional metal reel won't have this problem.
Also the hoselock on the inside of the reel twists and turns, don't think it's doing any good with Hot as I've had twice a problem there.
Adjusting the pressure down is key, there is no fooling the Varistream going on, just need to set the pressure correctly. As for being faster, again, you only need a smidgen of extra dirt on the frames or glass and cold needs much more passes, just think about half a dozen or so snail trails on the window. It takes ages with Cold. So even on small interval maintenance work, the difference is there.
It's also not in between the ears. Not being funny, but I've done these properties for years, I know exactly how fast I am, and exactly how much work the property needs. I've been doing this long enough now to know when I'm making a difference. Hot makes a massive difference on a great number of cleans.
And me m8 just the once as there is no need to go over more than once.
It's all about the rinsing not the scrubbing
In my opinion the scrubbing power is one of the most important things in a brush, as that lifts the dirt off the glass, water rinses it down the window. You can't have one without the other. The rinse rinse rinse if in doubt that is repeated time and time on here is mostly incorrect, it's a combination of the two (not taking into account any issues with the actual glass and frames).
ive got hot wash but use cold will use it on the frosty mornings when they come !!!! As for faster cleans load of rubbish i think cold cleans just as good as hot with birds mess just give it a soak clean some other windows then go back it comes off pretty easy !!! I gotta say the hot will be good when really cold so good to have !!! as for cost not much a 13kg bottle will last about 7 weeks £25 as for flu havnt got one bolted on back door so not a prob as leave open when i will use hot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a contradiction in one sentence. Even though cold cleans as well in the sense of the dissolving of dirt, the reaction rates are much higher. If you have to soak it first, then cold doesn't clean as quick as hot, that's obvious. Also, all time spent add up, so having to go back and forth soaking stuff just slows you down. With hot, it's gone.
Even though some might argue that the above is an opinion, over the last 3 months or so I've been faster all across the board. And that's a fact.
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What temperature do you reckon your at the brush head? How did you bypass the trip? Did you simply join the wires together and miss the switch out? I changed a cylinder on mine the other day and it refused to light afterwards. Have you had the drain valve blow yet or the battery retainers snap?
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What temperature do you reckon your at the brush head? How did you bypass the trip? Did you simply join the wires together and miss the switch out? I changed a cylinder on mine the other day and it refused to light afterwards. Have you had the drain valve blow yet or the battery retainers snap?
Before I ruined my inline temperature gauge I had it around 45-50c. I'm not sure if it's okay to post on a public forum how to bypass a safety device, but yea that's basically it lol.
Haven't had any other problems so far.
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If I could get the poxy picture facility to work I'd show you my reel.
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If I could get the poxy picture facility to work I'd show you my reel.
Okay, maybe use i or similar free hosting. Sometimes posting a link doesn't work, so you can use tinyurl to make the i link smaller.
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are you pulling water through the heater or pushing it? ie. cold through the pump or hot?
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are you pulling water through the heater or pushing it? ie. cold through the pump or hot?
Pushing it, pump before heater. I think the pumps aren't rated for high heat. Don't think the heater on the vacuum side would work at all.
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I've swopped mine around because I'm having pressure problems at the moment and didn't like the unit under pressure. Works the same but means hot water goes through the pump.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1327685224_battered reel.jpg)
Too much heat/ too soft a hose
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That's basically exactly what mine looks like. I'm walking back part of the hose so that there is less tension on the reel. It's fine for cold, but a bit flimsy with hot. Oh well.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1327687823_balloon.jpg)
This was a brand new reel, you can see it grew a fair bit!
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What make is that hose please
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It was replaced by the supplier and marked as unsuitable for hot water afterwards. So I won't name and shame. I'm not sure it's sold anymore.
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Tim, how did you connect the steel hose to your reel? I guess it screws onto the hotwash then a jg barbed insert to the red hose, but then what to the reel? Does the coloured hose take the pressure and heat?
Edit: looks like you've gone from braided to ordinary hose? Which means I can't understand the need for steel especially on the inlet?
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It was replaced by the supplier and marked as unsuitable for hot water afterwards. So I won't name and shame. I'm not sure it's sold anymore.
Ah gardiners then, ???
I brought the same hose 6 months or so ago. Mine was replaced with another hose and that swelled up to.
So i brought 100m of streamline, its been fine.
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If I get a new van, I'll get one of these, reverse mount it. :D
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1914&p=109018&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Cockpit%C2%A0Ventilation
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Tim, how did you connect the steel hose to your reel? I guess it screws onto the hotwash then a jg barbed insert to the red hose, but then what to the reel? Does the coloured hose take the pressure and heat?
Edit: looks like you've gone from braided to ordinary hose? Which means I can't understand the need for steel especially on the inlet?
yea that's exactly how it works. JG to stem/barb adaptor, then hose with jubilee clip.
The hose is amazing actually, doesn't swell. Good stuff, what they use on boats etc.
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It was replaced by the supplier and marked as unsuitable for hot water afterwards. So I won't name and shame. I'm not sure it's sold anymore.
Ah gardiners then, ???
I brought the same hose 6 months or so ago. Mine was replaced with another hose and that swelled up to.
So i brought 100m of streamline, its been fine.
I have some minibore from sureclean - it's not brilliant either to be honest but their pole hose is good.
Streamline microbore was the best I ever had, bought it about five years ago. Waiting to see what Gardiners thermobore is like.
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Sorry, I forgot to answer the question about the braided hose on the inlet. You can get screw to barb connectors, but I wasn't sure if a plastic connector there would get hot or not, so I just bought two of those. Makes it easier to unplug as well if necessary because of the JG speedfit. Originally it came with hoselock connectors, no way I was ever going to put them on. I've vowed to rid my system of hoseloc. Except for the hosereel it turned out all right.
Pretty sure the microbore from Gardiners comes from Streamline as well. So far so good, the first 100m was a duff batch I think, this one is holding up well. Funny how much difference one setting on the varistream makes. At 6 it doesn't swell up that much, at 7 it's much worse.
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How do you adjust pressure on varistream
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How do you adjust pressure on varistream
On the digital Varistream press and hold the plus and minus button for 5 seconds or so till it shows a different value from the flow. Then press and hold the +&- again so it starts flashing, adjust it accordingly. Turn the controller off, then turn on after a few seconds.
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Timbuck2 I just want to answer your Q again about hot be quicker than cold load of rubbish as I said yes with cold you still have to scrub to get birds mess off windows even a lil soak do some other windows then just go back well I found you still have to with hot water so in my opinion hot & cold wash take the same time the only good thing with hot is the pole gets abit warm in the winter months & you could probably still use in the Icy mornings and also hoses are more easier to handle as nice & soft ...... downside with hot I find it cost more money ie gas not much but still costs also I find the pressure drops as its going thru the shower !!!!!!!!!! So I find the windows still look clean with cold & with hot !!!!!!! Not saying I dont like it as I will luv it when the Icy days arrive & i dont have trouble with hoses freezing !!!! :P