Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: The Carpet Cleaning Pro on January 15, 2012, 04:35:48 pm
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There seems to be a big thing about agitation these days and it seems to have become a major issue in getting power agitators such as sebo duo etc. To be honest on most jobs I come accross I do not need it. A GOOD vac, a good QUALITY prespray, dwell time and then a nice even extraction with the trucky and a good QUALITY acidic rinse. What ever happend to preventative cleaning, correctional cleaning, and if needed a salvage clean. (as taught on Prochem courses) It looks like most are just going in spraying a prespray down , scrubbing the hell out of it, then blasting with hot water extration.
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...power agitators such as sebo duo etc.
The Duo certainly isnt a 'power' agitator - it's lightweight and flimsy, only good enough on the lightest of soils tbh.
Mark
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Depends what you're trying to do with it Mark! If you're trying to rip the tufts out of the carpet, no it's not going to do that. But for wool or nylon it's more than adequate, just slow over big areas but then most domestics where it would be used aren't a problem in that respect.
Mick I think there's 2 answers to your question. First thing is, that it is a much bigger pain in the backside to not quite get the result with a tentative attempt first time, and then have to go over it again with a more thorough process. Machine agitating makes sure that you get the solution worked in as well as possible so it leaves no doubt in your mind that you might have done any better.
Secondly, to remove agitation from the equation you have to increase the other parts of the cleaning pie. In most cases this means the strength and amount of pre-spray, and also the grunt you have to put into the extraction. Agitation can mean the difference between one pass with the wand at 300psi compared to back and forth at 500psi to bully the dirty bits clean.
Put simply, a lighter pre-spray followed by agitation and the resulting lower powered rinse required, leaves a much drier carpet behind.
I don't subscribe to this view that "microsplitters" have to be agitated otherwise they don't work, in the same way that I don't believe you can spray a detergent down and just leave it and it will work just as well. Agitation required is dictated by the soil conditions and the carpet fibre/construction. I sometimes agitate detergents quite a lot... I sometimes never agitate microsplitters.
Another thing... your pre-vac may be lifting the pile, doing the job of an agitation process that some others might employ after pre-spraying having skipped the vac stage (as if any of us would do that ;) )
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I use a host machine to lift the pile the end results is better.
Shaun
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I used to pre spray then get a good stiff brush and agitate. From the forum I was never really convinced about the sebo duo's as I got the impression that they were a bit light.
Bought a crb on ebay for not much more than a second hand sebo....wow!
Using the crb you can see which stains are going to come out and with a bit of extra work on the others it's a cinch now. I use SPM and even a cold water extraction and a beige or white coloured carpet does not fill me with trepidation any more.
Just remember to clean the machine off before you go to the next job otherwise you get a whole load of black carpet crud deposited on the next customer's carpet!!!
Back's a bit better too!
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Agitation is not always about scrubbing the carpet to death, but even on lightly soiled carpets its useful to break the surface tension and allow the prespray to soak into the carpet quicker thus reducing dwell time and amount of prespray used, and enabling you to get on with the job a bit quicker.
Its a no brainer really, ;)
Steve
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Its a no brainer really, ;)
Where can you get these no brainers from, I must get one ;D
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Plenty of no brainers on this forum, you don't have to look too hard ;D ;D
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Plenty of no brainers on this forum, you don't have to look too hard ;D ;D
and Jim's there Leader!!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D
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No, I'm their GOD
BOW DOWN SMALL BLOWER!!
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No, I'm their GOD
BOW DOWN SMALL BLOWER!!
There's an offer you can't refuse Billy...
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I'm not sure whether it's a big hype or not. It might well come down to the sprayer chemicals you're using.
Me being me, I was curious about the pre-spray stage and what it actually did. I sprayed a carpet and then got down on my hands and knees with a magnifying glass. What I saw was millions of tiny droplets of liquid sitting on top of the pile. When I agitated the carpet with my finger and looked again I saw that the agitation had broken up the droplets and wetted the pile where I had agitated.
Now it probably depends on three variables:
1 - drop size of the sprayer
2 - surface tension of the spray liquid
3 - physical properties of the carpet pile.
One thing I AM certain of, though. Droplets sitting on top of the pile are not doing anything useful.
Therefore, agitation cannot possibly hurt. No agitation can possibly result in wasted time, energy and chemical.
If you must err, err on the side of caution and agitate, even if it's only with a brush to make sure that the spray does actually wet the carpet. The dwell time is then actually time when the chemicals are in contact with the soiled fibres and not just sitting uselessly on top.
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Did everyone do a bad job before mechanical agitaton was available??
I find a brush does the job 90% of the time on residential jobs.
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Good post Seymour.....
Tony you are a young tiger, so a brush is fine, but wait till you start creaking when you walk like I do, anything mechanical that will make the job easier is used.......................... trust me................ I am a doctor well alright not a doctor exactly but a grumpy old git with aching and creaking bones...
;D ;D ;D
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If you must err, err on the side of caution and agitate, even if it's only with a brush to make sure that the spray does actually wet the carpet. The dwell time is then actually time when the chemicals are in contact with the soiled fibres and not just sitting uselessly on top.
Blimey we agree on something ;D ;D ;D ;D
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If you must err, err on the side of caution and agitate, even if it's only with a brush to make sure that the spray does actually wet the carpet. The dwell time is then actually time when the chemicals are in contact with the soiled fibres and not just sitting uselessly on top.
Blimey we agree on something ;D ;D ;D ;D
Nah - I was only joshin'
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Thank god for that :)
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If you have a TM you have much more scope not to agitate.
Some places I won't bother agitating at all or maybe I will lug something big and heavy out the van.
It's as required and what will ultimately save me the most time.
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Did everyone do a bad job before mechanical agitaton was available??
I find a brush does the job 90% of the time on residential jobs.
No, but I do an even better job now.... :)
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anything mechanical that will make the job easier is used.......................... trust me................ I am a doctor well alright not a doctor exactly but a grumpy old git with aching and creaking bones...
;D ;D ;D
Couldn't agree more .......and I am a doctor ;D
Rog
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One of the reasons we did not agitate long ago was that we used quite strong detergents in the tank,so quite a lot got put on the carpet with a decent pressure at short range. This enabled it to coat the fibres on the first pass. It then did not get rinsed.
Some of the stuff we used was recommended to be handled with gloves and face protection. And if you splashed it on paintwork it stripped it bare in seconds.
Now things are much more civilised and very much safer and better at cleaning.
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Your right and spot on there kinver..
Creaking bones hector ;D
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aggitation..... years ago it was not a widely practiced thing and most of us that did it used rotarys on stinking pub , restaurants and clubs. A crb is far superior. I take great pride in what I do and use the best chemicals and methods that I can. Ok i do come accoss situation where I do not need a crb, any body that has one will realise the benefits if you have never used on you wont.
I have had so many people that have used the argument that their machine is powerfull and gets hot enough not to warrant it. This argument will stay with them until they work alongside you.
A crb with a good prespray will give you better results, save you a lot of money on spotters and you will not have to get on your hands and knees any where near as often to spot. If you think a pile brush is any comparison to a host or envirodry then you are in cloud cookoo land. Yes a pile brush is better than nothing but better than somthing that costs 50 times the amount ????????????
The people that have moved to crb can talk from experience the peole with pile brushes can talk from a position of ignorance.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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I'm with Peter on this one - in my short time cleaning carpets (7 months!) I've gone from a brush, to a sebo duo, to a CRB machine. I still use the sebo occasionally on relatively clean carpets, but generally the CRB comes out. Soon as you go over an area once or twice, you get an idea 95% accurate of whats going to come out (if it hasnt already just by agitation alone!), and whats going to need more attention. These machines are carpet cleaners in their own right - quite often people will comment "Are you done already?" before you've even put a wand down.
As it happens (and no, this was not the point of my post) I might have a CRB machine up for sale over the next few days ;D . If anyone is interested, text me on 07830 021836 and I'll keep you posted.
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They are brilliant, oh by the way I'm selling mine.
Sounds like they are good as those whole room driers. ;D
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I didn't say I'm selling mine, I said I'm selling A CRB (maybe).
Most people who've got one will tell you how good they are. If someone has one that they are selling because they don't get use out of it, I'd be genuinely surprised.
As for the driers, I've said in the past that I don't find them particularly effective (though I have kept one as they are useful for upholstery - but I certainly have no use or room for 2 of them)
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Ash
I didn't know you had been selling a drier, it was a general observation. As for your a CRB I was just pulling your leg. They are great, I might even be interested. ;D
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;D Yeah, sold a snail blower. I'll put the CRB on here for a few days before eBay.
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http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=145485.0
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No matter how much you vacuum a carpet, putting a crb on it you get so much crap out again. After a while of using a crb you will realise: a crb that vacs as well will add yet another dimension to carpet cleaning.
The reason that there is so much hype is because it works so well. if you are not doing it you really are missing out on something. But you can still carry on telling yourself that you are doing everything right...........
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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And yet we live in a world where most people seem to be happy if you have something that mechanically wipes the carpet with a towel so long as the price is right. :'(
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catch those worms!!!!!
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And yet we live in a world where most people seem to be happy if you have something that mechanically wipes the carpet with a towel so long as the price is right. :'(
Yup
and if the customer is happy, it is them who pay the bills
;D ;D ;D
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On a really cruddy EOT I will usually CRB dry then vac, it gets a load of rubbish out, then prespray then CRB again. It is amazing how much comes out of the carpet before rinsing.
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Thinking of buying a crb now ???
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Ok
Can anyone recommend a good machine?, and is it worth spending more to get one with built in vac?
Mr B