Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: SPE on January 05, 2012, 01:03:25 pm
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Happy new year everybody,
back to work tomorrow and just took water readings for an hf5 4040
tap tds is 260 ppm, pressure is 30 psi before filters with waste fully open (always presumed that to be the way of knowing my mains pressure ?)
when I produce pure I tweak the waste tap (almost half way) til the pressure guage is set to 60 psi , this seems to give the optimum pure reading before di of 30 ppm. Thats roughly 90 % of tds removed.
Is this what I should be expecting from this membrane ?
I know many of you will say it will work better with a booster pump and this is something I am considering.
For now I am just going to change resin in di as its now reached 12 ppm.
From my research on here and the net it would seem that a suitable booster pump is going to cost £200 +.
I use on average 1500 -2000 ltrs of pure water per week but with only street parking and a flat so the water is needed to be filled straight to van quickly hence the hf5.
Will I see a big benefit to investing in a booster pump in terms of reduced tds ? I'd hope I could get it down to below 10 to reduce my di resin use or possibly even eliminate it if it was low enough.
Dont want to be wasting money just at the moment !
Your advice appreciated,
thanks
Simon
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with a booster pump mine drops to between 3 and 5 never more than that
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Happy new year everybody,
back to work tomorrow and just took water readings for an hf5 4040
tap tds is 260 ppm, pressure is 30 psi before filters with waste fully open (always presumed that to be the way of knowing my mains pressure ?)
when I produce pure I tweak the waste tap (almost half way) til the pressure guage is set to 60 psi , this seems to give the optimum pure reading before di of 30 ppm. Thats roughly 90 % of tds removed.
Is this what I should be expecting from this membrane ?
I know many of you will say it will work better with a booster pump and this is something I am considering.
For now I am just going to change resin in di as its now reached 12 ppm.
From my research on here and the net it would seem that a suitable booster pump is going to cost £200 +.
I use on average 1500 -2000 ltrs of pure water per week but with only street parking and a flat so the water is needed to be filled straight to van quickly hence the hf5.
Will I see a big benefit to investing in a booster pump in terms of reduced tds ? I'd hope I could get it down to below 10 to reduce my di resin use or possibly even eliminate it if it was low enough.
Dont want to be wasting money just at the moment !
Your advice appreciated,
thanks
Simon
I think your TDS should be much lower.
I have the same membrane.
With waste open (when flushing), pressure is about 20PSI.
With waste slightly open (running at about 50/50) it's 40PSI. At 40 PSI it gives a TDS between 006 and 010 - though I expect this to go up as the membrane ages. The tap water is around 200 TDS.
Bear in mind that the first water out after the flow being stopped for a while is higher. Let the water run a while before checking TDS.
I got the HF5 4040 because I didn't want a pump.
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30 is very high,
i use a booster pump to get 70 psi and i get a TDS of 3 from 320 tap water + filling is much faster - well over 100 ltrs p/h
pumps have come down in price and a suitable one can now be brought for around £120
well worth it for quicker filling and low TDS
Darran
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Happy new year everybody,
back to work tomorrow and just took water readings for an hf5 4040
tap tds is 260 ppm, pressure is 30 psi before filters with waste fully open (always presumed that to be the way of knowing my mains pressure ?)
when I produce pure I tweak the waste tap (almost half way) til the pressure guage is set to 60 psi , this seems to give the optimum pure reading before di of 30 ppm. Thats roughly 90 % of tds removed.
Is this what I should be expecting from this membrane ?
I know many of you will say it will work better with a booster pump and this is something I am considering.
For now I am just going to change resin in di as its now reached 12 ppm.
From my research on here and the net it would seem that a suitable booster pump is going to cost £200 +.
I use on average 1500 -2000 ltrs of pure water per week but with only street parking and a flat so the water is needed to be filled straight to van quickly hence the hf5.
Will I see a big benefit to investing in a booster pump in terms of reduced tds ? I'd hope I could get it down to below 10 to reduce my di resin use or possibly even eliminate it if it was low enough.
Dont want to be wasting money just at the moment !
Your advice appreciated,
thanks
Simon
I think your TDS should be much lower.
I have the same membrane.
With waste open (when flushing), pressure is about 20PSI.
With waste slightly open (running at about 50/50) it's 40PSI. At 40 PSI it gives a TDS between 006 and 010 - though I expect this to go up as the membrane ages. The tap water is around 200 TDS.
Bear in mind that the first water out after the flow being stopped for a while is higher. Let the water run a while before checking TDS.
I got the HF5 4040 because I didn't want a pump.
thankyou Paul, yes I bought the hf5 for the same reason that I did not want a pump (my ro is in hallway of my flat and space is an issue) and wanted to keep things simple.
I have been told on here in the past that whilst geographically tds levels of water can be a similar level the efficiency of an ro can vary depending on what elements and quantities make up the tds ie; someone in wales could have a tds of 260 and so could somebody on the south coast, both using same ro and similar pressure but the water they produce could be very different in terms of rejection rate of dissolvable solids depending on what they are.
The waste had been fully open and flushed for two hours prior to the original post today.
I suppose I will only know if a booster pump will work if I splash out on one , I'm just a little sceptical as I've thrown so much money at kit over the past few years its going to have to be worth it or its just more money wasted.
Ian, do you happen to know what tds you were producing without the booster pump ? it may give me some idea as what to expect .
this is the pump several including gaps have suggested
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cbm240-1in-multi-stage-water-pump
however budget is tight and so I am looking at this one
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/051012200
thankyou
Simon
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without booster pump think it was about 12 to 15 but my pressure only 35 to 40 psi ... with pump still not ideal but about 90psi
i could just use my 005 water but still use resin to get to 000 but only change resin twice a year (7 litre dumpy)
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without booster pump think it was about 12 to 15 but my pressure only 35 to 40 psi ... with pump still not ideal but about 90psi
i could just use my 005 water but still use resin to get to 000 but only change resin twice a year (7 litre dumpy)
thankyou Ian, what pump do you have ?
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i would expect alot lower too., is this a new setup? and have you the 2 prefilters running too?
My presssure is less than yours, and even without booster was getting less than that.
Couple of things to check:
Have you got decent pipe work leading to RO? Better to get as close to mains inlet as possible, and as large diameter pipe to help water flow.
Also measure carefully your ratio pure to waste, you say about 50/50. Im sure they could do with running more like 75 waste to 25 pure, tho you can set them somewhere in between. But if you have misjudged it and running too much pure will raise tds and knacker membrane quicker. If your not on a meter be worth lowering the pure production slightly. Either way, measure how long takes to produce pure/waste by timing how long takes to fill a litre bottle so you get it right.
I have clarke cbm240e, excellent pump, when i used it my tds went from 250 down to 2or 3, and producing up to 250 litres an hour at best times. But costs money to run, generates some noise, and abit more hassle.
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Does seem high,mines 280 in 004-5 out,tap pressure 50 ish.
Your tap pressure will be the reading when you have the waste fully shut.
My tap pressure varies betwwen 40-55 psi but my waste setting is always basically the same and that is a 4psi drop from waste fully shut to wherever i turn the valve to get a 4 psi drop. I think with a 4psi drop i get roughly a 2 waste to 1 pure ratio .I`ve never felt i wanted to shut the valve more as it feels i`d be working the membrane too hard.Its in the wrist action and now i`m set in my ways.If i suddenly find a big shift in tap psi then i`ll probably need to check and adjust.
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Does seem high,mines 280 in 004-5 out,tap pressure 50 ish.
Your tap pressure will be the reading when you have the waste fully shut.
My tap pressure varies betwwen 40-55 psi but my waste setting is always basically the same and that is a 4psi drop from waste fully shut to wherever i turn the valve to get a 4 psi drop. I think with a 4psi drop i get roughly a 2 waste to 1 pure ratio .I`ve never felt i wanted to shut the valve more as it feels i`d be working the membrane too hard.Its in the wrist action and now i`m set in my ways.If i suddenly find a big shift in tap psi then i`ll probably need to check and adjust.
Drudge you have confused me a little, do you mean the waste fully OPEN so as not producing any pure ? running the ro without any waste would damage it ?
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My waste tap is only 1/4 open, so nearly shut, this gives me optimum TDS, 375 in 9 out. Have a fiddle with the waste tap, try closing it some more and see if it makes a difference, if not, then there is a problem, with a reading. Of 60psi on the gauge you should be getting a better TDS than 30.
Where did you get the 4040 from? Have you had it apart to make sure the seals are all ok?
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I`m confused a bit with the question.But yes,waste fully shut is not good for the membrane.
I start and finish with the waste fully open and the water running for a minute at least,even with the waste fully open a small amount of pure is produced.
I close up the waste then with an eye on the pressure gauge and for about 2 secs(let it settle) i shut it fully, read the psi,probably about 54 then open the waste to get a reading of 50 and thats it set about right.
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without booster pump think it was about 12 to 15 but my pressure only 35 to 40 psi ... with pump still not ideal but about 90psi
i could just use my 005 water but still use resin to get to 000 but only change resin twice a year (7 litre dumpy)
thankyou Ian, what pump do you have ?
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cbm250ss-1in-stainless-steel-booster-pum?da=1&TC=SRC-booster pump
this one above but prob not the best due to on and off of pressure switch which is no good for membrane but had it for over 12 months and still doing 003 - 006
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i would expect alot lower too., is this a new setup? and have you the 2 prefilters running too?
My presssure is less than yours, and even without booster was getting less than that.
Couple of things to check:
Have you got decent pipe work leading to RO? Better to get as close to mains inlet as possible, and as large diameter pipe to help water flow.
Also measure carefully your ratio pure to waste, you say about 50/50. Im sure they could do with running more like 75 waste to 25 pure, tho you can set them somewhere in between. But if you have misjudged it and running too much pure will raise tds and knacker membrane quicker. If your not on a meter be worth lowering the pure production slightly. Either way, measure how long takes to produce pure/waste by timing how long takes to fill a litre bottle so you get it right.
I have clarke cbm240e, excellent pump, when i used it my tds went from 250 down to 2or 3, and producing up to 250 litres an hour at best times. But costs money to run, generates some noise, and abit more hassle.
no its not a new set up, but the membrane was replaced 6 months ago. Very basic set up done as cheaply as I could , only one pressure guage after 2 x 10" pre filters and no inline tds (an oversight really as had I invested in one would have been easier to monitor what was going on). Old membrane was kicking out 50+ ppm , when new one installed was probably around 12-15
mains supply is in downstairs hallway and ro is in my 1st floor flat sub landing, connected up by 3 meters of 1/2" hose and about 4 meters of 15mm flexi pipe and some john guest elbows, all abit "round the houses" I know, but unfortunately the restraints of no outdoor space and living in a flat have dictated this.
So you maybe onto something there ! I'll have a look at ways to shorten the distance and maybe 1/2" hose the lot , shortest length will still be 4 + meters though.
as for the waste tap setting, I spent some time this morning adjusting and taking readings and the best I got after flushing for 2 hours was 29 and that was probably somewhere between 60/40 and 50/50 waste to pure, less waste it rose and more waste was less pressure and also a rise in tds, so guess I've got that at its optimum.
membranes are near £200, pumps £100 +, can I in any way reverse any possible wear or strain to the membrane by buying a booster and initially flushing it with more pressure for a few hours prior to using ?
Its going to be an expensive month ! :-[
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My waste tap is only 1/4 open, so nearly shut, this gives me optimum TDS, 375 in 9 out. Have a fiddle with the waste tap, try closing it some more and see if it makes a difference, if not, then there is a problem, with a reading. Of 60psi on the gauge you should be getting a better TDS than 30.
Where did you get the 4040 from? Have you had it apart to make sure the seals are all ok?
it was from Gaps Water Lee, but yes its all fitted correctly
Simon
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When you are playing with the settings and you`ve gone to more waste but found a rise in tds that might only be a temporary rise,try readings after 10 mins.
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When you are playing with the settings and you`ve gone to more waste but found a rise in tds that might only be a temporary rise,try readings after 10 mins.
I shall try that thankyou, just ordered an online tds which I should have had all along, will make the process of monitoring things so much easier ! hey ho you save a few quid only to find out the hard way :D