Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Seymour Sunshine on January 02, 2012, 02:40:11 pm
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Just by following the threads I can see that there are supporters and detractors on both sides. Everybody has an opinion. (A bit like football!!!)
Has any independent organisation done a scientific comparison?
It shouldn't be too difficult to do, should it? And it could be something to do at Carpex in March.
Why doesn't somebody:
(i) get a length of carpet from a walkway where it's pretty uniformly dirty along its length,
(ii) cut it in three equal pieces and then
(iii) clean each one by a different method.
(iv) Then do a HWE on each section and see what, if anything, comes out.
Or maybe it's a job for TACCA.
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well i certaimly know which the superior clean, how ever i do use lm on ocaasions ,does that give you some indication :)
As for independent !!!! why are you suggesting tacca are independent ? as as far as i can gather if you do not have hwe you are not considered for membership, hardlu independent imho .
Geoff
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a range rover, an F1 car and a seven seater galaxy, which ones best?
answer is none of them and all of them,
now if you own all 3 and have the knowledge to know when each car comes into its own, then you'll always be a winner. simples. ;D
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a range rover, an F1 car and a seven seater galaxy, which ones best?
answer is none of them and all of them,
now if you own all 3 and have the knowledge to know when each car comes into its own, then you'll always be a winner. simples. ;D
Yes, I take your point, but it's not really a very useful comparison. I'm not suggesting that we compare racehorses and donkeys, they are similar animals for different purposes. I'm suggesting comparing different methods of cleaning carpets, which are different animals for similar purposes.
So I still think it's a fairly valid question: Which method would get the best results on three similarly soiled samples of carpet?
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Do you mean dry foam, absorbent pad, dry compound?
But any way all low moisture cleaning is only categorized by the IICRC as 'interim cleaning' it has it's place as maintenance cleaning program BUT is only to per long 'restorative cleaning' which is HWE
Clearly the industry is more advanced than you give it credit for, Perhaps you should buy the IICRC S100 standard reference guide for carpet cleaning it costs £85 ouch! But it's the most comprehensive guide to carpet cleaning ever put together!
It's worth having to refer too.
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i was pointing out that all jobs are different, if your saying just a piece of carpet with easy access then its a no brainer, HWE everytime will do the best job. everybody knows that. ???
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now if you own all 3 and have the knowledge to know when each car comes into its own, then you'll always be a winner. simples. Grin
I've got all three and use all three. Don't know about the knowledge though ;D
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BUY IT ;)
http://www.iicrc.co.uk/images/standards-form-uk.pdf
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now if you own all 3 and have the knowledge to know when each car comes into its own, then you'll always be a winner. simples. Grin
I've got all three and use all three. Don't know about the knowledge though ;D
what? including the F1 car? ;D
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Yep, I'm going to use the engine to drive the world's first 800 brake horsepower truckmount.
That would power some blower!
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i was pointing out that all jobs are different, if your saying just a piece of carpet with easy access then its a no brainer, HWE everytime will do the best job. everybody knows that. ???
I'm not trying to be funny or offensive or anything untoward, but there are lots of things that everybody knows and turn out to be old wives' tales with no basis in truth at all. There are other things that everybody knows are old wives' tales that turn out to be perfectly true. The difference is only found by a proper scientific investigation.
If IICRC has done a scientific study and come to a clear conclusion, then that's the answer I was looking for.
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I have all 3 to hand, but use HWE on 98% of my work.. (At a guess!!!)
I do have success with all 3 methods, but I believe HWE offers a deeper clean....
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Yes IICRC have done tests in the states and yes HWE is more effective.
LM has it's place for maintenance clean but it's recommend that it's broken up with restorative cleaning to remove the residues and soil left behind by LM cleaning.
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So what happens when I get called in to deal with the left over residues from a HWE "clean" on a low profile office carpet that looks worse than before they started?
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tell them next time get someone it who knows what they are doing!!
it wasn't the method that caused the problem but the operator
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So ... Let me get this straight:
gary22 has all three systems.
his website says that he can clean carpets without leaving a wet-sheep smell behind. (presumably, a wet-sheep smell is not a good smell to have in your office.)
so does gary22 agree that HWE is always best? He has, after all, got all three, but chooses to use a LM system on office carpets.
Mike Halliday seems to be suggesting that it's the operator at fault if there's a wet-sheep smell left behind after an HWE job.
Sorry, but I'm getting mega confused here.
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"Wet sheep smell" is associated with wool rich carpet.... Surely!
And, where did Mike mention the wet sheep smell ???
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sorry i thought you were asking about cleaning a small piece of carpet,
the best method for cleaning a sheep is strap it to the roof of your car and go through the car wash, surely. ;D
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And, where did Mike mention the wet sheep smell ???
it wasn't the method that caused the problem (= wet sheep smell) but the operator
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Low profile carpet found in offices responds better to bonnet cleaning.
Mike was referring to residues. (read the post above his)
Wet sheep smell is wool as Colin says.
God your getting me confused ;D
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sorry i thought you were asking about cleaning a small piece of carpet,
the best method for cleaning a sheep is strap it to the roof of your car and go through the car wash, surely. ;D
Best method is similar to washing a sheep dog:
I - tie animal to a tree.
II - spray with a hose until thoroughly wet.
III - rub in large quantities of pet shampoo.
IV - hose off until water runs clear.
(Repeat III and IV if necessary)
V - untie animal and allow to dry naturally.
VI - groom when dry.
Also known as CWND = Cold water natural dry method.
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;D
would that not cause shrinkage ;D
LM boys will be here in a bit saying whats wrong with a quick spray and a towel rub. ;D
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Low profile carpet found in offices responds better to bonnet cleaning.
Mike was referring to residues. (read the post above his)
Wet sheep smell is wool as Colin says.
God your getting me confused ;D
gary22's web site refers to wet sheep smell in office carpets. I think he might be using "wet sheep" as a catch all for unpleasant, musty, "damp" smells.
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So let me see if I am getting this right...........
Colin smells like a wet sheep......
Derek has shrunk .........
CraigP is a confused god...........
Gary22 has/wants/needs a F1 TM
Mike Halliday has/is a confused operator.....
Now what was the question???:
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;D
would that not cause shrinkage ;D
LM boys will be here in a bit saying whats wrong with a quick spray and a towel rub. ;D
Tin hats...On!
;D
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So let me see if I am getting this right...........
Colin smells like a wet sheep......
Derek has shrunk .........
CraigP is a confused god...........
Gary22 has/wants/needs a F1 TM
Mike Halliday has/is a confused operator.....
Now what was the question???:
no no no, it was me that asked craig to clean colins sheep with gary's F1 truckmount while mike watched on confused
keep up hector ;D
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so who has shrunk then??
or was that Colins sheep??
who is Colin??
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I AM a smelly sheep, but I much prefer to be bonnet cleaned, it's less invasive and simply distributes the mucky colour, so my fur is uniformally dull.... ;D
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And that Mr Symour sunshine is the answer to your question
Bonnet (LM) clean
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
so says the shrunken F1 driving smelly sheep
;D ;D
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i thought colins tin hat shrunk????? even i'm confused now
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Thanks for all the helpful answers. I've finally decided what to do ... I'm going to be a professional sheep groomer!
At least then, if it smells like a damp sheep afterwards, I've got a good excuse.
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sheep groomer eh ??? is that the politically correct way of saying it? ;D
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getting back from CIU at the Apollo...
lets look at this carefully....
in all situations the client is asking us to clean the carpet, so we need to know the definition of 'clean'
according to the dictionary it means
free from foreign & extraneous matter
So how can we measure how clean we make the carpet, a test By the USA organisation CRCI (as reported in Cleanfax magazine) tested the cleanliness of a carpet by weighing it..... according to them if you remove contaminants from a carpet it will weight less . if you think about it this does make sense.... until you think about it more, then you can see flaws in this theory.
Eg: I often bonnet clean polypro' rugs and they look really clean but sometimes i will take them off site and do them properly in the unit.
my first step is to beat the back of the rug to remove the vast mount of dry soil the lays deep in the pile. at this point the rug will weight vastly less then if I had bonneted the rug but will not look any cleaner .... but according to the CRCI the beaten rug is cleaner than the bonneted as it contains less foreign & extraneous matter
So is clean really what the client is asking for or do they mean something else? if theynow really mean 'clean' then just spend an hour dry vaccing and tell them that the carpet is cleaner than if you had used any other method.
to answer my own question when 99% of clients ask for clean they want the carpet to look clean not be clean
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Don't forget when your "grooming" the sheep do
it at the edge of a cliff so it pushes back.
John
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I have all 3 to hand, but use HWE on 98% of my work.. (At a guess!!!)
I do have success with all 3 methods, but I believe HWE offers a deeper clean....
dito
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Don't forget when your "grooming" the sheep do
it at the edge of a cliff so it pushes back.
John
;D ;D
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i have all 3 methods at my disposal and a muck spreader and a fendt ( F1 version in the tractor world)
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Love this post i can see that CIU 2012 will be a good one. ;D
Now That's what i call cleaning forums 80 available from all good forums now ;D
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So, to summarise what I have learned thus far:
1 - HWE is ALWAYS better than LM or VLM except for situations where it isn't.
2 - Clean means different things to different people. Customers don't really want clean carpets, they want carpets that appear to be clean.
3 - Some carpet cleaners are expert sheep handlers.
4 - There are some good people on this forum guaranteed to make me laugh out loud.
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I think the CRI test was something to do with using UV light? There's something in the blurb on Hydramaster's website, or at least there was, that the boxer 427 with RX-20 achieved the "gold" standard
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Jim I think I remember that test, didn't it lose all credibility when the rug Doctor also attained the 'gold' standard
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So Jim is a 427 year old boxer who won a gold medal ............
But Mike thinks the medal is not credible because of a doctor on a rug????
the plot thickens.........
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Probably right Mike. Let's face it, the same facts can be used to back up different arguments, as we all know too well!!
Me personally, I don't need anything proving to me by any independent body or scientist, I know which way carpets are best cleaned :)
And I have VLM, rotary, portable and truckmount options at my disposal.
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I was'nt kidding!!
http://www.squidoo.com/Rug-Doctor-Might-Pro
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Probably right Mike. Let's face it, the same facts can be used to back up different arguments, as we all know too well!!
Me personally, I don't need anything proving to me by any independent body or scientist, I know which way carpets are best cleaned :)
And I have VLM, rotary, portable and truckmount options at my disposal.
Please excuse me for being a bit thick ... but when you say: "I know which way carpets are best cleaned :)" it implies that there is one way and one way only of doing it.
Yet you also say:"And I have VLM, rotary, portable and truckmount options at my disposal" which implies that there are different methods that can be used optimally in different situation.
So which is it?
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Don't forget when your "grooming" the sheep do
it at the edge of a cliff so it pushes back.
John
Not necessary if you tuck its hind legs into your wellies. Or front depending on preference.
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I use the portable when access isn't possible or practical with the Truckmount
I use the rotary (on its own) when the customer's preferred price is below mine (normally commercials or EOTs)
I use VLM when the carpet doesn't permit water based cleaning.
The magic word is "compromise", which applies to three out of the four systems mentioned, the other is un-compromised :)
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I use the portable when access isn't possible or practical with the Truckmount
I use the rotary (on its own) when the customer's preferred price is below mine (normally commercials or EOTs)
I use VLM when the carpet doesn't permit water based cleaning.
The magic word is "compromise", which applies to three out of the four systems mentioned, the other is un-compromised :)
Now that is a ***** answer.
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If you don't like ***** answers, stop asking ***** questions ;D
(not sure what ***** even is though!!)
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I thought he meant 5 star answer
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Now that is a ***** answer.
GREAT Might be wrong jim ;D
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If you don't like ***** answers, stop asking ***** questions ;D
(not sure what ***** even is though!!)
Sorry. Meant 5-star
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Oh I see!
8)