Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: happy mondays on December 16, 2011, 10:16:16 pm
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No dont do cheap digs Derek, if I am honest, which I am :) I had noticed you promote that you have passed the exam and find it frustrating as a member that your web design company put a link on your site that could implie to a potential customer that you are associated with this association because you have passed the exam. Even though in some peoples eyes, means nothing at all really :) Just interested to know if it means nothing to your customers who have never heard of them, your logic in promoting the ncca. Imo the small cost of membership is very reasonable for what you can get from it.
like i said paul, i paid good money (to the ncca, money in there bank) for a certificate, and people know what a certificate means so i'd be mad not to promote it, and in a way i'm helping the ncca get recognised. i'm not a member and don't promote that so don't see the problem. ive done 2 courses with the ncca so ive paid a lot to them. personally i think your grief should be with people that have not paid any money into the ncca kitty and still mention there name on trhere website.
i'm not doing anything wrong. ive paid my money, got a certificate and i'm marketing that certificate to my customers.
anyway, join TACCA, its free
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=168506547806
Taken from the December 2011 issue:
NCCA Name & Logo
Current full members of the NCCA only are permitted to use the NCCA name or logo in advertising.
Both the name and logo are registered trademarks and misuse of either is considered as a copyright infringement.
Use of wording such as "trained by the NCCA" is also regarded as misuse.
The association considers all logo or name misuse as theft and has the backing of trading standards.
And about time I say, three cheers for the NCCA ;D
Either pay up or remove the NCCA stuff from your advertising.
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I think Derek's point he was making is that he HAD paid up.. .and was still not allowed to mention it!
Imagine if you had passed a degree at Oxford University but unless you paid them £250 a year you weren't allowed to mention it!! Stupid.
I'm right behind Derek on this, it's absolutely idiotic policy making on the NCCA's behalf.
It would make more sense if they only offered training to their members, therefore removing this problem altogether. They could offer, for example, first year's membership at half price if you take a course.
But what do I know :)
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I think you've missed the point :)
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They said that years ago.
Local cleaner to me is or was the enforcement Director.
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Westy, (maybe you could use your real name and fill out your profile information)
You still completely miss the point so I'll try to explain it in words that aren't too complicated.
If you paid £250 a year to use the NCCA logo and had NOT been on their training courses, you could be an untrained idiot running around ruining carpets under the banner of being an NCCA member.
But having done the courses and not choosing to pay the annual membership, you are considered vermin in the eyes of NCCA.
It is a fact that the majority of experienced, long-established and skilled carpet cleaners in this country are NOT members of the NCCA. That's because they are also sound businessmen and recognise that the NCCA gives them nothing in return for their money.
Until this industry gets a pre-requisite qualification, nationally enforced by law, without which you can not trade, this argument will rage on.
In the mean time I'm quite happy making a nice profit out of running my business in the way I see fit and ethical (I'm an affiliate member anyway, not that I give a rat's ar$e).
You've missed your vocation, you should have been a warden in WW2
"PUT THAT LIGHT OUT"
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They said that years ago.
Local cleaner to me is or was the enforcement Director.
Maybe they need to have a word with him/her then, and give them a kick up the a##e
It is up yo local members to report abuse , he would where possible in his own time unpaid follow it up with Trading Standards etc
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Personally the NCCA sucks, I have a number of cleaners around me who claim and advertise to be members but most certainly are NOT!!! And the NCCA have done nowt about it!!!! "and yes they are aware"
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I'm with the NCCA on this one but they need to inforce & publicise the inforcement.
Dave
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Use of wording such as "trained by the NCCA" is also regarded as misuse.
They cannot impose that rule upon anyone. If you are / were trained by the NCCA, in other words attended their courses, then you are perfectly entitled to say so and they can't do squat about it, just as you are entitled to say you've got a degree from Oxford. But if you add a NCCA logo to that statement then they are perfectly within their rights.
Just a shame they haven't got anything better to do with their time.
Still run by a bunch of self serving myopic idiots, I see. :'(
Simon
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Imagine if you had passed a degree at Oxford University but unless you paid them £250 a year you weren't allowed to mention it!! Stupid.
But what do I know :)
Not a lot, check it out, with any university and most professional bodies I know of unless you are up to date with any fees due then you are NOT considered a graduate !! My dear (soon to be ex) wife spent £20,000 (Yes twenty thousand pounds) on fees for a Warwick University masters degree then we had to pay to attend the graduation ceremony, wether or not she went!
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Someone remind me how many years NCCA have been going on about this, and yet everyone still laughs at the situation.
So they happily take the money off people where upon you attend their school of excellence, get trained by their professionals who show you how to do all aspects of carpet & upholstery cleaning in 2 days and send you on the way......BUT.....don't you dare advertise that you were trained by them (perhaps on the back of 2 days training they have a point ;D) unless you pay them a yearly retainer to say you've been trained by them. ;D
Now, I understand they have their rules and it is written down as such so they may have a point in law, BUT, I bet if it went to court it would get chucked off on the basis of being plain stupid. My Lord the case in front of you is one where we are not happy about Mr X advertising he was trained by us even though he was trained by us and has a certificate to say so.....issued by us Good luck with getting an injunction with that one.
Advertising membership is different if you don't pay your yearly subscriptions by the way.
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Facts are facts, if you have attended / passed any form of training then this can be used as a statement of fact, as long as you don't try to mislead.
The NCCA courses are great as are the IICRC, this mainly due to having great instructors, but this and other silly 'rules' are what puts me off joining, same with the IICRC. It gives the impression that they are about nothing but making money.
I was paid up to the IICRC and still not allowed to use their logo as I had to pay more for the privilage. When I called to question they were actually quite rude and aggressive in their manner, and I was already paying them.
Another simple hard fact; not once has anyone asked if I am qualified, never mind am I a certified and paid up member of any such organisation.
Maybe if they eased off a little they would get more people signing up.............
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Here's another fact.
The public does not understand or maybe even, give a toss about the NCCA (sadly).
It's perhaps, only a matter of time, before the far better publicised TACCA becomes the recognised "authority" in the PUBLIC'S eyes.
Who is better is irrelevant. It is who markets themselves the best... and at the moment it's TACCA that's winning hands down (and gathering momentum).
For the record, I'm a member of neither.
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I'm a member of the ncca but still think its ridiculous that you can't mention you trained with them if actually did & paid the money, but not became a member.
They shouldn't be happy to do the exam & take the money from people if they don't want problems with it, they obviously haven't thought the whole thing through properly,
Regards
Steve
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Totally off topic.
Great paintings Steve (canvas site).
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I think when Watchdog on the BBC had a story about Enterprise cleaning, they didnt even know about the NCCA to ask them to be the "experts" about the said cleaning company. They had some type of lawyer who didnt even know the first thing about cleaning.
Actually, when they caught up with the boss of the said cleaning company, he answeed every question well, and wasnt at all phased with being hijacked by "Watchdog".
In fact is was probably good advertising for him.
Point is no one knows about the NCCA.
In 6 years I have probably been asked twice, maybe even once about NCCA!
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they are a sales tool.
And if Joe Bloggs was trained by them and has a certificate to say he was trained by them......
To put on the website and in all promotional material "trained by NCCA" is stating a fact and cannot be denied by anyone.... therefore in your words " A sales Tool"
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Hi Guys
I can see both sides of this West debate.
Paul is aggrieved that Derek doesn't pay but gets the same marketing benefits although he doesnt get any direct referals.
Derek is right that he has been trained by the NCCA and is entitled to state that truth.
Personally I don't think the NCCA makes enough difference either way to worry about.
Cheers
Doug
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Just to let everyone know, TACCA will be having a training weekend in spring 2012, its open to non members and anyone attending are quite welcome to put "trained by TACCA" on there website, its all good marketting and will benefit TACCA so i'm fine with that.
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"My main aim was to try and spread the word for the NCCA "
Is this not the job of NCCA and what you membership for ?? ???
Still we have had all this before....NCCA is not known by anyone outside the business and that has, and continues to be its biggest problem
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"My main aim was to try and spread the word for the NCCA "
Is this not the job of NCCA and what you membership for ?? ???
Still we have had all this before....NCCA is not known by anyone outside the business and that has, and continues to be its biggest problem
Spread the word of the misuse of the name taken from the December newsletter, what do you want them to do, a national tv campaign telling carpet cleaners not to use the name if they are not members ???
Its up to the members to promote the association, I havent got a problem with that.
Westy,
No it is not. Members surely should expect the NCCA to be actively marketing the NCCA to the wider public. That, surely, is the whole purpose of being a member.
Simon
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Totally off topic.
Great paintings Steve (canvas site).
Thanks Garry,
I've often told my customers I belong to the ncca & they look at me as if I'm talking French ( no disrespect to French people ;) )
I don't bother now, just tell them how great I am & they seem to be more impressed by that ! ;D
Steve
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Why should I not list I'm trained by them I have the certificate plus a few paid up years Certs? I've done training with LTT but don't use their products trained by furniture clinic but don't use their cleaning product done training with Solutions but don't use any of their products to list a few. The folder I take into the clients home contains all these Certs so do I remove them because I don't pay to be a member or use their products?
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Does any association advertise on TV on it's members behalf?
I mean in other industries..
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Hi guys
If some of you younger dynamic guys could join the NCCA and shake it up the industry as whole would benefit.
It's not big enough for several Trade asssociations.
Cheers
Doug
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Don't use the logo on any of my sites but in my portfolio the certificates are in there for customers to review,should I take them out as I'm not a member but have attended and passed their exam?
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No Jim, I am not missing any valid point. I also understand complicated replys so please dont question my intelligence.
Sorry I was a bit tired and grumpy last night, reading back over the thread I was a bit rude, my apologies :-[
But in reply to some of the points you make:
Fact is: Your every day Joe Bloggs searching the internet looking for a carpet cleaner stumbles upon a site that states trained by the NCCA, this site may have a link to the NCCA website, the potential customer could come to the conclusion that the company is connected with them.
Exactly! They ARE connected with the NCCA... they've done one of their bloody courses! Taking someone's money off them for a training course and then forbidding them to say who they're trained by is just nonsensical. As I said earlier, they could easily wipe this problem out altogether by only allowing association members to do the courses.
But of course they won't, because that means they'll sell less courses and make less money. Kind of sticks in the throat, taking your money off you and then kicking you in the balls like that. It stinks.
My gripe is: Why should I have to pay for what really amounts to the same thing. This is damaging a very well recognised association, why? Because next year I and many other members may just do the same thing, so it is in the best interests of the NCCA to stop it now.
Your annual subscription to the NCCA buys you much more than just being able to put their logo on your website, doesn't it. There's a massive list of benefits (http://www.ncca.co.uk/benefitsofmembership.php) you get for your money. So it is ridiculous to say that you are getting the same benefits as someone who just advertises the fact that they're trained by the NCCA.
I am not a lawyer and havent got a clue if it is enforceable, I would guess that the NCCA have, hence the bit in Decembers issue.
It's an out-and-out bluff. I'd love to see the NCCA try to take a case like this to court! It's so short-sighted of them, why don't they realise that outside sources promoting their association and website is a good thing! Free publicity! What they're basically trying to do is cut off their nose to spite their face.
Where are your facts based from that the majority of skilled carpet cleaners are not members of the NCCA?
The simple fact that there are only 545 members (http://www.ncca.co.uk/members.php) of the NCCA!!!! Added to that, the general consensus from forum conversations and from speaking to many different carpet cleaners is that very few are members.
It seems that the NCCA tends to snare newcomers to the industry who think it's the same as being Gas Safe registered, but then as soon as they wise up a bit, many realise that they don't have to be members and maybe don't get much benefit, and hence don't keep up their membership.
Surely if such an organisation has been around for such a length of time it should have the vast majority of carpet cleaning businesses on its books? It just shows that something's not being done right and it's been like that for years.
Why try and damage a long established association?
I don't think anyone's trying to damage the NCCA, if I had PAID for one of their training courses I would damn well expect to be able to tell the general public that fact. It isn't any sort of attempt to damage the association at all, just to benefit from the investment made.
If there's a trend of people leaving the association for various reasons, the NCCA should blame only itself for failing to provide any benefit to its members. It's nobody else's fault but theirs if they can't do their job properly.
The NCCA is maybe not for everyone, or if someone just wants to save a few quid, get rid of the NCCA stuff and maybe put “trained to industry standards”
Hahaha yeah and if you want to see what those industry standards are... that'll be £50 please (http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030171387) just for the bloody privilege!!! ker-CHING goes the NCCA's till......
Doug, the NCCA is run by the old guard and is stuck in its ways. The very prospect that "younger dynamic guys could join the NCCA and shake it up" is exactly what they don't want, so it'll never happen :)
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Excellent post Jim
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NCCA or TACCA who give's a **** at end of the day if i clean carpets and **** any up then whoops but i'm fully insured and 2 i haven't ****** any carpet's yet and i think any customer would rather see FULLY INSURED then NCCA or TACCA at the end of the day i know what my customers understand MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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^^ oi! Potty mouth ;D
I had a letter from the NCCA 3 years ago telling me to remove all mention of NCCA from my advertsing material. I sent it back to them :P
I only mentioned it on my business card that I was trained by them. Like Derek.
Nothing ever came of it.
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Exactly who gives a **** ;D
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I'm not trying to belittle the NCCA at all. I only wish it would/could do what the industry wants it to do, but it seems unwilling or unable. I think the points I've mentioned are valid arguments and represent the views of a fair proportion of carpet cleaners in this country. Hence why some people feel strongly enough to get off their ar$es and try to offer an alternative.
Let's get one thing straight here, I AM NOT involved with TACCA in any way, shape or form. I have taken out membership for my business, like many, to show solidarity to Derek and to make sure I'm on the bus should it end up in a decent destination :)
So I'm a member of both associations.
And with all due respect, it's a bit early to say whether anyone's time has been wasted as TACCA is only in its infancy and it still has a long way to go. But as Derek keeps emphasising, TACCA has not been set up to take on the NCCA at its own game or undermine it in any way - its mission statement differs, and the way it is being managed differs.
I personally think that an association that taps in to the needs of the average carpet cleaner is going in the right direction.
Time will tell :)
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If you feel aggrieved by paying over the odds for very little in return, you shouldn't really take it out on those who know how to "legally" manipulate words in their advertising by saying they were trainedby the NCCA.
I'm sick to the back teeth of being told to join up to make a difference to an already established association, I would be much happier to pay for a service that already exists. It's a bit like taking your car to a garage and being told to fix it yourself :-\
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If someone paid for NCCA training , and wishes to advertise the fact without paying up , and then they are threatened with legal action for doing so , they can be safe in the knowledge that this will never happen , because the NCCA does not have anything like the resources necessary to carry out the legal action, and if they did they are not guaranteed to win, which would then open the floodgates and also be a waste of members money.
Tacca is in the same boat , neither organisation has any clout , just the odd job for each member each year.
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slightly in the NCCA defence.... they problem with using the term trained by the NCCA is if I search google for a NCCA carpet cleaner google cannot recognize the significance of the the words.... trained by....
so if i want a NCCA carpet cleaner( because some one has told me that's who i should use) when I searched 'hull NCCA carpet cleaners' I get 3 companies who are not members of the NCCA but have used the NCCA letters
I'M ONE OF THEM!!!!!! It has picked up an obscure directory that I joined 8yrs ago while I was a member
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I've just soken to my son who is a Litigaton Lawyer. By saying you were 'trained,' or attended courses run by the NCCA, you are merely making a statement of fact and if a case were brought by the NCCA on the grounds that you have stated a fact, that you were trained by the NCCA, the case would be brought down in seconds and all costs persuant to the matter would into the lap of the NCCA.
If you say you were trained by the NCCA and display their logo without being a member then they would be a different matter, but only because of the logo which implies membership.
Simon
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CD tried to stop me putting ex Cd in my advertising , it would cost them at least 20k to take it to a court , I just put it sporadically out of mischief now.
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i am a member of the ncca and tacca and when i ask people if they have heard of tacca they say no, when i ask people if they have heard of the ncca they also say no, i pay the ncca over £200 pa to be a member with no obvious benefits that i have seen so far, i pay tacca nothing also with no obvious benefits so far however tacca is evolving and may prove to be beneficial in the future once it has enough members whereas the ncca is already evolved and seems to be failing miserably.
I agree with westy that people should not benefit from an organisation that they do not contribute to however where i would disagree is where people have done the very expensive training course with the ncca as then i think it reasonable that they are able to state on their websites and paperwork that they are ncca trained, I do not think this is morally or legally wrong and perhaps the ncca are overstepping the mark by trying to say it is.
while we are on the subject of the ncca they may now employ someone to do their marketing but all they seem to do is more and more training courses which in my view only benefits those that get payed to do the training what do the members get out of it?
that last statement in no way implies that any of the ncca trainers are doing anything untoward and if i knew as much as them i wood like to get payed for it too. the point i am trying to make is that all that training benefits the industry and the trainers but the money made from it does not seem to benefit the organisation or its members.
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The NCCA make money out of training far more than out of membership fees I think they could cut off their nose to spite their face if they push the issue but I would image that a statement like this had to be said to appease members, litigation could cause less training courses which would see NCCA, IICRC (or what ever) reduce in size and finances making the trade poorer on money and quality also trainers like Derek Bolton Paul Pearce etc wouldn't be able to pass on their wisdom and also it would hit them in the pocket because they don't work for nothing.
Shaun
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Why would someone pay for a training course if they were then not allowed to tell anyone who trained them??
"Yes Mrs customer I have been trained to the industries highest standard.. Who with? sorry not allowed to tell you without shooting you afterwards"
Doesn't really work does it?
This could cost the NCCA more.......
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Well done NCCA all you have managed to do is pee more carpet cleaners off.......... ???
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I wouldn't say that exactly I think the loop hole is closing because members have asked for it to be closed and as Paul West'y' is a member I can see his point of view but you can't turn back time if you have been on a training course and state that then you are telling the truth.
Perhaps a way around this would be for cleaning product manufacturers to do the courses under their name and then have a NCCA qualified trainer to do the training and then ask if the cleaner wants to do the exam at NCCA hq and become a member.
Shaun
PS Derek who's doing the training?
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shaun.
from the messages i'm getting, the question should be, what type of ales and chasers will be on offer after the training has finished. ;D
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i'm doing advanced ironing training and Little blower maintenance!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaun, did you know i was the first in the uk with a glided iron!!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D
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At a conservative estimate, there are 10,000 carpet cleaners in the UK.
After 41 years of existence, the NCCA have just over 500 members and a fair majority of those members are relatively new to the industry, so approx 5% of the industry are members.
Judge for yourselves what that means in real terms, but please don't tell me that they represent the industry as a whole or have any clout.
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At a conservative estimate, there are 10,000 carpet cleaners in the UK.
After 41 years of existence, the NCCA have just over 500 members and a fair majority of those members are relatively new to the industry, so approx 5% of the industry are members.
Judge for yourselves what that means in real terms, but please don't tell me that they represent the industry as a whole or have any clout.
but how many of the 10000 ish have been trained by the NCCA?
and by their rules how many can say so?
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so tacca has 1%, i'm happy with that
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Steve
I think that says more about the Industry than it does about the NCCA!
Dave
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I'm not 100% sure on this, but I would guess that the NCCA would not have as much of a problem with this.... the fact is they dont want non members advertising that they "have been trained by" with links to the website they/members pay to maintain.
Westy, next time you have a chat with your masters at NCCA perhaps you could ask them to address this question.
Last year I put them to the test. I e-mailed them and said I would be interested in joining so could I do just the exam......if I passed fine, if I failed so be it (although we all know what happens if you fail :o). The answer back was no, I would have to do the 2 day course first. I said I didn't want to do the course I would take my chances with the exam and pay for the privilage of doing it (exam) if it made them feel better.
End result I didn't get to do the exam. Now that's a loop hole for you to deal with, because things like that are costing membership numbers.
Sorry but I know enough people who did the 2 day course, passed the exam and within days had the website up saying 'Expert carpet & upholstery cleaner, trained by NCCA.' WHAT IN 2 DAYS with a tick test that you can't fail (well not on the 2nd attempt anyway because they send you the answers in the post for you to resubmit ;D).
And they want to forbid people stating trained by NCCA even if they were trained by them.
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Simon, my eldest Daughter is currently studying law, I have had a brief chat about it with her today, and in her opinion, the website owner (in this instance the NCCA) has the legal right to request any individual to remove a link to a website owned and run by them for whatever reason they choose, in this case, the reason is very obvious.
All those incoming links are what brings the NCCA website up near the top of a search for carpet cleaning and gives it publicity You have to laugh..
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The revenue they need to exist is from training you can't take an exam without paying for the training unless you send the money for training but don't attend then do the exam.
Shaun
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Why is it ok for a safeclean franchisee to do the exam when there trained by Derek Bolton but not cleansmart or restoromate trainees who are trained by the same man IMO the ncca dont want many members and are happy to plod along
Jim
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Have been a member of the NCCA for a number off years.
Have been involved by going to AGM and also organizing a number of roadshows the NCCA.
The cost is worth it as the referrals we get pays for it and people say they choose us because we are members of the NCCA.
The idea of being able to just take the exam just wont work how does the NCCA know how long a person has been in business for someone may say they have been in business for 10 years but theirs no way to prove it 100 %.
Also the second the exam is sent out someone will post it on some website.
A lot of works goes into the NCCA in the background with the directors giving their time freely and running their own business at the same time.
I feel that the NCCA can’t win what ever they do can’t please everyone but for us the benefits out play the disadvantages.
I did the NCCA course last year again as my daughter was joining the Business everyone on the course had to sign to say they would not use the expression Trained by the NCCA unless they become a member.
Was a worth doing the course for a second time most definitely yes to listen to Paul and Pawlo for 2 days talk the industry they are passionate about was worth the money.
The NCCA is not perfect it never will be, it can’t please everyone but why don’t some who want to NCCA to do this and that join and then go the AGM and vote for changes to be made.
Ray
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The idea of being able to just take the exam just wont work how does the NCCA know how long a person has been in business for someone may say they have been in business foe 10 years but their no way to prove it 100 %.
sorry Raymondo, but I fail to see the relevence of this statement, as the majority who go on the course and then sit the exam have been in the industry ................................................
2 days.....
So if people can sit the exam after 2 days why cannot other people pay to sit the exam after the same time??
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Some one could have been cleaning carpets for 10 years but have never been on one training course whether at the begining or at any time during those ten years.
The NCCA would rather that everyone who wants to take the exam attend the course as well.
I had been cleaning carpets for over 12 years the last time I took the course I learnt so much from it. It was worth the expense.
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"I did the NCCA course last year again as my daughter was joining the Business everyone on the course had to sign to say they would not use the expression Trained by the NCCA unless they become a member."
There you have it.......they don't want you to advertise there training course....why go on the course then.. ???
This is supposed to be run by business people.....frightening
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Some one could have been cleaning carpets for 10 years but have never been on one training course whether at the begining or at any time during those ten years.
The NCCA would rather that everyone who wants to take the exam attend the course as well.
I had been cleaning carpets for over 12 years the last time I took the course I learnt so much from it. It was worth the expense.
Ray,
If thats the case, surely they should fail the exam then??? I'm just being devils advocate!!! ;)
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This is a great video to watch
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69qGnXDVAg&feature=share
Just a quick question, do all NCCA directors teach?
Shaun
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and heres ours ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnHQK2pqmsA
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LIKE it Derek, just noticed 58 seconds in, i think its Richard B Fisher TM, must have some blower on it, its sucked up half the beach ;D take note Billy ;)
Andrew
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LIKE it Derek, just noticed 58 seconds in, i think its Richard B Fisher TM, must have some blower on it, its sucked up half the beach ;D take note Billy ;)
Andrew
;D
just noticed, thats some flood job that is rich ;D
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Another great video Derek I'd say that the NCCA one is more for getting new members and TACCA's for getting new customers.
Shaun
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Does TACCA have complaints procedure in place for members of the public to go to?
I think Derek you may be biting off more than you can chew, it's going to be a lot of admin.
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How good does a complaints procedure have to be? I recent did some work for the NCCA as a favour to one of the directors where a member had some issues not too sure how proficient the complaints procedure was but I do see your point Craig, Derek needs to address it perhaps at his
pup training day.
Shaun
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LIKE it Derek, just noticed 58 seconds in, i think its Richard B Fisher TM, must have some blower on it, its sucked up half the beach ;D take note Billy ;)
Andrew
Not half the beach...it was high tide until Richard showed up ;D ;D
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customers can complain directly through the tacca website, this does not go live but is pending till we've heard both sides of the story, if however you mean, do we go out and assess any complaints. answer is no, but theres no reason why we can't have this in place in the future. anythings possible if enough guys get behind it.
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Hmm, I don't think NCCA go out, it's a form filing exercise, ie customer fill out a form cleaning company fills out a form and the NCCA work to a resolution. Your need someone highly qualified like Paul P for real technical problems to advise.
I don't know how many they get if it's a lot it could be some head ache.
Don't suppose anyone knows the numbers of complaints the NCCA have to deal with?
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Politics and technical does come into it but deplomacy from another member is IMO far better than reams of paperwork it can be avoided.
Shaun
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craig
we've got some very technical guys all ready members of TACCA, and very enthusiastic about the industry.
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I'd get a new accountant!