Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: nick king on December 15, 2011, 06:36:17 pm
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Beware !!!!!!!!!! he is recruiting again,offering £700 + PW for team leaders & £250 PW for canvassers...just thought i would let you all know.since plenty of you are looking for him,for various reasons.
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Beware !!!!!!!!!! he is recruiting again,offering £700 + PW for team leaders & £250 PW for canvassers...just thought i would let you all know.since plenty of you are looking for him,for various reasons.
paul is a decent bloke!
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To be honest, I think alot of problems stem from communication break down - Im quite close with the people I work with, not in it for tons of money, but in it to try and help people, and provide a good loyal service. Always interested in how appointments go - its about trust - and for people realising that they can rely on me. But thats just the way I work. always have.
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i think with door knocking a lot dont like the results, as they think if they get professional companys in and they should bring loads of work in at £20 a pop, and not the £7 that is the going rate for the area
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A boss is only as good as him team and workers!
Its not his fault if sometimes people let him down,he is addressing that problem by building a strong reliable team!
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I think your always going to get a few problems with canvassing companys no matter who they are, but they do get you work fast.
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well you obviously havent worked for or with him,i know so many people who are chasing him for money, a lot of things make so much sense now,since we have left.Never pays full wages on time,and then rips us off for,cancellations when you leave.I realise now from lots of window cleaners why he wld never answer the phone or why we never went back to a productive area...... he was poopting on people.
Oh well live and learn but never forget......what goes around comes around.
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Paul from doorknockers if you read this, your welcome to call me about the grand you owe me or the £500 OF WORK ;)
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Sorry to say,you aint got a chance,he still owes me wages for when i left,conveniently said i had loads of cancellations,i rang the customers myself,none of them had cancelled,but said the window cleaner hadent turned up,was smelling strongly of alcohol and had cleaned 3 times......funnily enough the window cleaner came from Sawston(where Paul lives) and was his mate...... STRANGE THAT.
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Do you run a canvassing company Nick?
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Hi Colley,my mate and myself started this up about 3 months ago,we are slowly building a reliable team,and its going quite well.So yes we are.
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email me your details please Nick. I'm thinking of getting canvassing done next spring/summer if I can hit my own targets
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email me your details please Nick. I'm thinking of getting canvassing done next spring/summer if I can hit my own targets
email sent
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Nick what areas do you cover?
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Nick what areas do you cover?
we cover quite alot of areas at the mo,cheshunt,cambridge,guildford,windsor,Huntingdonshire,Biggin Hill,London,Ware,Haverhill,Southend,Norfolk,Hitchin,Brentwood,Saffron Walden,Braintree and a few others too.
Nick
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I think we might be a bit far away in that case Oxon/glos borders
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I think we might be a bit far away in that case Oxon/glos borders
We do travel,when we go to Guildford,the window cleaner wants us for 2 days,so he pays for us to stay in a B&B
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Send me an email and we will talk in the New Year
regards Steve
steve.rix@hotmail.co.uk
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What are your rates nick ??
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Hi Nick, I would be interested in some work in the new year in the following area's, Brentwood, Wickford, South Woodham Ferrers in Essex, just send me an email if you get some.
Regards Brian.
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Nick, I would be interested to speak with you, one about getting me some work and secondly about a website for what you do and I have generic search names for this line of work that people are typing in google ;)
Ian
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I see your back ian.
every post i'm reading the last couple of days your in there :)
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I see your back ian.
every post i'm reading the last couple of days your in there :)
I am back for a bit, could you send me a text so I can store your number, lost eveyones number when I smashed my old phone, iphone have different sim card and phone was shagged so dont have it.
did you fix my lead? I could have done with it the other day.
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i'll text you now
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What are your rates nick ??
Hi Mick
We charge x2 for every deal,fuel to location,and we pay back full money( if the customer pulls out after one clean,if not then just half the money) or replace the deal.And we stick to your criteria.
Nick
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If you only guarantee it for 1 clean why are you charging x2????. i wouldnt use you anyway just was asking thats all. Most canvassed customers takes 6 odd months to ween out the crap anyway.if you charged x1 or 1.5 with a 1 clean guarantee then that would be more fair and beat the competition out there for yourself.
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If you only guarantee it for 1 clean why are you charging x2????. i wouldnt use you anyway just was asking thats all. Most canvassed customers takes 6 odd months to ween out the crap anyway.if you charged x1 or 1.5 with a 1 clean guarantee then that would be more fair and beat the competition out there for yourself.
if i get a customer for £10 OPM....to me £20....and he gets window cleaned once and then pulls out,why should i pay back £20 and the window cleaner gets his £20 + £10 for the clean.Admittadly he has cleaned the windows,but ive done alot of walking for that £10.
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A boss is only as good as him team and workers!
Its not his fault if sometimes people let him down,he is addressing that problem by building a strong reliable team!
Paul had some good workers,which unfortunatley he wouldnt listen to,his Asian workers apart from one decent guy,use to sign imaginary people,no phone numbers or postcodes.If the customer was not sure if they wanted a window cleaner or not,they would sign them up instead of leaving a card and let them think about it first.We would never go to any of the meetings and he rarely told us the full criteria of what we wld have to work to.We have all left him.....good job too,as so many people are after him for money.
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That all sounds familiar
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canvassing is a tough business and Paul Bass has been in it longer than most if not the longest. Because of the way canvassing works there will always be crappy customers and unhappy window cleaners. YOU MUST go into any canvassing arrangement with your eyes open and verbally confirm all customers before you pay for them - that way there is minimal (though still a bit) of fall off.
Paul Bass is actually a decent and honest guy (when put alongside other bosses of canvassing comapnies) and beleive me i have used a lot of them as well as been a boss of a canvassing company myself.
This Nick feller who has started this thread is clearly a disgruntled employee of which there are many in all walks of life in all industries so it would be wise to take his bashing of Paul Bass with a pinch of salt. Im sure when and if Nick is ever as long in the tooth as Paul Bass in the canvassing world there will be as many if not more unhappy window cleaners plaguing him with calls and disgruntled employees on here starting up on their own and rubbishing him as a boss.
Though at least this post has got him some free advertising even though it is at the detriment of Door knockers and Paul Bass.
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I was long in the tooth with the amount of work i got.
When paul went out and canvassed with him and his missus things were fine and we had a good relationship. When he got all his Asian workers on board it turned bad. But he was too blind too see it (or knew but didn't care) and even accused me of trying to rip him off so we partied ways. He was a slippery character also.
Since then i have taken on my own canvassers and know exactly what too expect and the way that door knockers done buisness was shoddy and dishonest
to quick to sign up anything to get the fee and worry about the drama later. He could have a great business if he put some simple measures in place
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I was long in the tooth with the amount of work i got.
When paul went out and canvassed with him and his missus things were fine and we had a good relationship. When he got all his Asian workers on board it turned bad. But he was too blind too see it (or knew but didn't care) and even accused me of trying to rip him off so we partied ways. He was a slippery character also.
Since then i have taken on my own canvassers and know exactly what too expect and the way that door knockers done buisness was shoddy and dishonest
to quick to sign up anything to get the fee and worry about the drama later. He could have a great business if he put some simple measures in place
have to agree with this, i had no problem till he did the same with me, and still to this day owes me work, he did give me some work that was out of area, to which I looked at and was all under priced one -off cleans and not something I would entertain, I never heard nothing back since then which I as great shame as It worked well till this point, unless that work is replaced he would never get a penny or a recommendation from me every again, so paul if you do read this my number is still the same one.
Till then I would recommend people to avoid sadly.
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Nick not having a go but,
If you take £10 for a £10 first clean your cleaner will get ped only a matter of time. please clean a first clean to see what its like,also being told cheers thanks for that mate ill call you in 2 years when 2 montnly for example sounded great when they were rotten.
at 200% this forum should be called canvassitup.co.uk because pulling in £300 on a saturday getting £300 if they all cancel and £600 upfront on first clean we might as well all jack in the window cleaning and turn canvassers,who wants to give me £600 for a days work plus travel and hotel any area? £300 of it is payable no matter what but ofc i only sign serious customers who always lie and say anything they want to get that 3 years worth of dirt on frames and windows off for a price anyone will say yes to!
end of the day nick you havnt seen a customers face on 2nd clean have you? not the true work the dodgy ones, they have a look of despair,and all the regular talk you told them when they were black they cant remember.
cancelations are massive in your trade its the customers that ruin it,if you pick up £1000 that could become £400 after 3 cleans ,if you worn your cleaners about this would they still pay you 200%?
you can make this work but my advice for repeat customers ie us window cleaners is charge less. offer very little or almost no guarantee
good luck
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Would people use a company that staged the payments? I built my round from nothing starting last november. We still had cancellations but nothing like the rates being mentioned in here. I would work very closely with window cleaners to find out why people cancelled and they would only pay for completed work. I am always looking for new ways to make money and think this could be it if done correctly....
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your cancelation rate was lower cos u canvassed it yourself,but your pick up rate would have been lower too.
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Thats just an assumption, we never hit less than 100 in new work and often hit between 150 and 200. I come from a sales background....
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thats what i mean your figures are solid but 100-200 isnt amazing high you will still get cancelations
Alot of others also come from a sales background so do it,it doesnt mean you can pick out the cherrys when canvassing especially when you have worked the morning with no biters, tell me you wont sneak in the odd 50% 50% customer to put bread on your table?
the problem is you are a good sales man but this is something you cant sell to people , they wont really be willing to enter a contract on the door and those that do will be very few contracts would maybe be a way around it but, its not just cancelations , its the non corporators, they dont want the front only, must be full house must be at certain times wont leave gates open , all these go into the figure of about 50% after 3 cleans i would say at least 40%
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If i was going to do it i would be honest and write everything down, no point putting in rubbish as i would only get paid on work completed. I am going to try and change peoples perceptions of this. Will only take payment once been done, then next payment after been done the dollowing month. Yes there will be cancellations and issues but if dealt with correctly then the value of the good work will far out value the bad. It will still be cheaper than buying existing work.....
And anyone that gets more than 200 with 2 people is just putting anything through.
Quality not quantity.....
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yes.
if you take 2 payments or 3 payments per clean thats you being realistic.question is what % are you after also u gota trust your window cleaner.
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Expenses on the day then the first clean once done next day. Then the next clean the following month. So its 2 cleans plus expenses but its staged over 2 months and only whats cleaned so no one out of pocket...
The biggest issue is trust both ways, i am sure some cleaners will try it on but its about trying to find the right cleaners to work with. Have a two locally as a start but i am worried about finding new cleaners i can trust.
I will be checking and calling all customers back so i have a true picture of whats been cleaned and cancelled.
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If i was going to do it i would be honest and write everything down, no point putting in rubbish as i would only get paid on work completed. I am going to try and change peoples perceptions of this. Will only take payment once been done, then next payment after been done the dollowing month. Yes there will be cancellations and issues but if dealt with correctly then the value of the good work will far out value the bad. It will still be cheaper than buying existing work.....
And anyone that gets more than 200 with 2 people is just putting anything through.
Quality not quantity.....
If you were going to do it like that, i would be charging 3 times the clean, and any expenses i would get paid up front after you have canvassed the work. Its a business, and its a hard business as well, so to make it worth while you need to be charging.
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I just want it to be fair both ways, what worries me most is getting paid in month two. I just know I am going to get turned over at some point and dont want this to get nasty.
You think people would pay first three cleans?
If done right i could be out next week....
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Yeah i do. If your going to offer something different, ie in the way of staging the payments, then i think 3 x would be more than fair. You will get messed about by a few i have no doubt in that, so make it worth your while.
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I suppose they only paying for the good customers that will go on to be long term earners so sounds fair. Also this way i dont have to guarantee work as they only pay for work thats cleaned...
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3x is way to much , u wont have any cleaners even 2 times is alot.
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Why is two cleans alot? Where can you buy work cheaper? I appreciate canvassing not to everyones taste but why should i work for less?
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2 cleans is not a lot, and for what you will be offering, 3 times is not a lot.
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I am talking about creating a game changer here, a way to access canvassing services with 100% no risk....
I dont think i will go for three cleans to be honest, i think 2 cleans plus decent expenses is fair enough....
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Well if you do it, Good luck, let us know how you get on in 6 months.
:)
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I am doing it with the two local guys, i know i can trust them. But always on the look out for work, willing to travel anywhere too. Think i should be busy as risk free.....
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So just out of interest, would people be interested in the terms as stated earlier in the post?
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So just out of interest, would people be interested in the terms as stated earlier in the post?
YES..... :)
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Thats the best response i could have hoped for lol
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Maybe but You would have to narrow it down more,
first clean customer pays cleaner £20 for a first clean you get £20, 2nd clean customer pays cleaner £20 for 2nd clean you get £20 3rd clean customer cancels you are out with 200% , cleaner has made 2x running costs losses and worked for nothing what would you do in these situations?
10 of these and your cleaner may/will get anoyed,and start cherry picking your work to the point that he is almost aggressive telling customers its minium 6 cleans please let me know before i clean , then you get pop central of 50% before the first clean.
you gota work out a rate/deal that aint to much to window cleaner and a rate that keeps u in work all year round u prob will get a few customers charging 200% over 2 cleans but i dont think people will be biting as hard if it was cheaper.
end of the day a window cleaner could simply employ his own canvasser and give him say £3 per lead any decent doorknocker should pull 4 leads an hour, half of these will be jobs it works out alot cheaper then 200% the cleaner might get a plooder who doesnt do his reknocks or make knock sheets so work will be all over the place rather then more compact but still. alot cheaper and its all a numbers game
so the trick is you offer a more professional approach naturally for more then a random but why would a cleaner employ his own if you can offer him a decent deal is 200% a decent offer? that you would have to confirm with others people who are desperate will take you on but would they use you again and again i dont know,
i guess if someone is prepaid to give you 100% 2 times and understand he may have 45% left by the time you are out then fine
you defo are being more open minded, i think you aint far from it , rather then taking money upfront then refunding you are only charing for what comes on i still think thou with running costs 200% a bit to much for all year round work however you will have the edge over many and someone will give you a try!
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I couldnt do it any cheaper, if a window cleaner was being that aggresive i wouldnt want to work with them any more. As a canvasser i cannot guarantee a customer is going to stay on board for life. Customers cancelling is going to happen, thats a fact but overall in value of business gained over the year i defy anyone to show me a cheaper way of getting work. Yes they could employ their own canvassers but if it was that easy everyone would have their own already but its not that easy to find good quality canvassers.
Its a choice each person has to make but i really believe this is the best option on the market at the moment....
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im with you on that one, ive dumped 3k leaflets with 3 jobs :)
canvassing works much better,if your stick rate is high u should be ok, its just such a bloody mistery till its cleaned again and again!
i do now thou use a different tactic it filters out customers like hell i love it
its basically offering everyone a one off then asking them if they want to go regular for the reduced price if they are happy with the work, works a treat pick up rates not as high but the stick rate is into the 85%s
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I never really have any problems with refunds/cancelations , when it's my own canvassing, but hit a few problems when employing people, not sure id have more than one person in with me again, not worth headaches
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So you go in high advertising one offs? Then offer a discount to carry on? We just offered a decent regular service at a good price and had a retention rate over 75%.
From what i have seen on here i think alot of work is lost from window cleaners not doing a good job or being over keen. I think all the talk of trying to sign people up to contracts or even hinting that they must commit for life scares the hell out of people.
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I think the only way forward is for the canvassing company to "sign up" customers on the door... i.e. the customer actually signs a sheet of paper agreeing price and frequency.
On the window cleaners side staged payments could work if the window cleaner signed a contract stating that all work was the property of the canvassing company until all payments had been met.
I'm actually thinking of offering canvassing services myself... Have been thinking about it for some time.
Andy
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You cant sign up window cleaning customers to a contract, if its done my way then i with my team would knock on doors on a monday and be cleaned and collected on a tuesday. My first fee then becomes due. Then its cleaned a month later and my second fee becomes due. If it dont clean then no fee so no risk, if anyone interested just let me know.
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Not everyone you sign up would want it cleaning on the next day?? You couldn't canvass and schedule cleans on behalf of the window cleaner it would become a nightmare.
I don't mean sign up a customer to a specific contract, but explain to them that you are canvassing on behalf of XYZ Window Cleaning and you need them to sign the form so that you can pass their details on to the window cleaner and cleaning can commence... It would weed out any messers as they would be hesitant about signing.
Andy
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Yes but no need for contracts if they going to have them done the next day, why wouldnt a customer on the door say yes to tomorrow? In my experience if they genuine then they say yes, you do get the occasional person say next time but the cleaner wouldnt have to pay for it till next time so not an issue....
I have built my own round from scratch so know all the pitfalls but trying to answer them all from day one....
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Yes but no need for contracts if they going to have them done the next day, why wouldnt a customer on the door say yes to tomorrow? In my experience if they genuine then they say yes, you do get the occasional person say next time but the cleaner wouldnt have to pay for it till next time so not an issue....
I have built my own round from scratch so know all the pitfalls but trying to answer them all from day one....
What I mean is it would weed out any messers who only wanted 1 clean... They would be hesitant about signing a piece of paper which stated a price and frequency... You could still get messers saying yes to a clean the next day, and then saying no to the 2nd clean a month later.
I don't think any method is full proof... But as you said in a previous post trust is very important between canvasser and window cleaner, if there is trust and honesty on both sides then any problems can be ironed out.
I've built my own business from scratch to... The good thing about building your own round is that you can spot a messer a mile off!
Andy
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Also... You could charge double for first cleans... I've started doing that myself now...
Worst case scenario is the window cleaner would still break even after 1 clean!
Andy
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If they just a timewaster who wants a one off but agrees to whats said on the door then would happily not charge for that job, but i would have the customers details so would contact them to confirm. If its my fault no fee, if its cleaners fault due to poor clean or damages or something random like gates left open etc then i would expect first clean fee.
What i am trying to put together has never been done and has to be fair both ways, so i will be fair but its a zero tolerance if the cleaner trying to get away with things. I would keep full records of all jobs and will contact all cancellations.
Anyone who is happy and looking to build a long term working relationship should be happy with these terms....
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No need to charge double if done right on the door, will just put people off and scare them away. Its a very simple transaction and should be kept that way, no need to make it complicated.....
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Not trying to make it complicated, just giving ideas...
At the end of the day canvassing for someone else is a bit of a mine field for both parties involved... The way you are suggesting still has all the same flaws as how other canvassing companies currently operate, its just the steps you put in place might help a bit, although would probably introduce other problems.
Perhaps commercial canvassing is the way to go... It would be easier to sign up a commercial client to an actual contract and then charge the window cleaner a % of the contract value? This kind of service might appeal to smaller contract cleaning companies to?
Andy
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Have seriously thought about the commercial route but i have purely concentrated on domestic, thats not saying i couldnt turn my hand to it. Do commercial sign up to a contract? Would have thought it harder than domestic
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Lol. anybody who needs canvassing doing must have time on there hands..go out and get your own customers...being a peoples person is a key to have being a window cleaner.
people who pay x2 and x3 for canvassed work are mugs as it is easy to find some1 willing todo it for less than 1 clean. most window cleaning canvassers are window cleaners who couldnt hack it anyway (messers), If not then why are they not building up massive empires and employing cleaners to earn big bucks in the long term instead of comeing on here touting for work past midnight for a quick money fix???
What a stupid post... Perhaps you typed it in your sleep?
Done the right way a good canvassing company could build up long term relationships with various window cleaners, so it wouldn't be just some quick money fix, its a business offering a valuable service.
Andy
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Have seriously thought about the commercial route but i have purely concentrated on domestic, thats not saying i couldnt turn my hand to it. Do commercial sign up to a contract? Would have thought it harder than domestic
I don't think the majority of guys on here with commercial work sign customers up to a contract?
However, I know some who do... And I think it should be the industry norm.
Commercial clients sign contracts for other services like IT systems, contract cleaning etc... So why not window cleaning?
Andy
PS. I'm off to bed now ;)
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Mike deleted all his posts from here last night lol
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So who would use a canvassing service if the deal was right?
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i personaly wouldnt not at 200% over 2 cleans its just to much, someone might be willing to thou.
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So who would use a canvassing service if the deal was right?
Only if you signed them up for 3 months
;D
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So who would use a canvassing service if the deal was right?
Only if you signed them up for 3 months
;D
[/quote
with a 100% first clean charge :)
now those 2 things will truley pre filter the messers.
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100 percent first clean charge?
How much do you expect people to work for then crystal? 2 cleans guaranteed my way is cheap work...
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100 percent first clean charge?
How much do you expect people to work for then crystal? 2 cleans guaranteed my way is cheap work...
its alright mate, as i say most would tax people 200% upfront you at least are saying over 2 cleans,
i would have taken you on maybe 15 months back at this stage im quite busy and would only consider decent offers.
break it down then
so you will go out and price first cleans at normal value easy pick ups not extra for first right?
cancelations on first clean cleaner still pays you 100%? or negotiable?
cancelations on 2nd clean cleaner still pays you 100%? or negotiable?
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I will go out and knock and book in say 150 for next day, you then clean them the next day, say 2 cancel on the day or overnight at 10 each. You then pay me 130. In 4 weeks time you clean them again, and only pay for whatever cleans again. So you only pay for the customers that stay on. The only other extra are expenses on the day.
These are non negotiable as i am waiting to be paid and have a load of extra work checking cancellations etc...
You wont buy cheaper work anywhere....
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I will go out and knock and book in say 150 for next day, you then clean them the next day, say 2 cancel on the day or overnight at 10 each. You then pay me 130. In 4 weeks time you clean them again, and only pay for whatever cleans again. So you only pay for the customers that stay on. The only other extra are expenses on the day.
These are non negotiable as i am waiting to be paid and have a load of extra work checking cancellations etc...
You wont buy cheaper work anywhere....
so say you pull a grand all cleaned then say 300 drops out cleaner pays you 700 and so on for next yea thats a decent deal.
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Its as fair as i can make it, you only pay for what cleans, it will work well if everyone honest. I will be calling all cancellations though to check the reasons.
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I will go out and knock and book in say 150 for next day, you then clean them the next day, say 2 cancel on the day or overnight at 10 each. You then pay me 130. In 4 weeks time you clean them again, and only pay for whatever cleans again. So you only pay for the customers that stay on. The only other extra are expenses on the day.
These are non negotiable as i am waiting to be paid and have a load of extra work checking cancellations etc...
You wont buy cheaper work anywhere....
So you expect a window cleaner to work for three months for nothing then they inherit about 50% of the work you canvassed but they haven't had to fork out anything except fuel and maybe hotel room. As long as your not coming down in an artic lorry and not expecting to stay in the presindetial suite in the Crowne Praza I think it works out a better deal than a mass leaflet campaign or buying existing work. I'd be up for that.
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You only have to clean it twice so in 4 weeks we all square, you will generally retain over 50 percent longer than a year....
My expenses are fuel and a bed if necessary lol...
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u should leave an email in your profile or here im sure someone will take you up on that offer,
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u should leave an email in your profile or here im sure someone will take you up on that offer,
Was about to say. For a canvasser you aren't giving us much in the way of contact details. I've got my website on here but I don't think I'll get many people calling from here for their windows done.
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You only have to clean it twice so in 4 weeks we all square, you will generally retain over 50 percent longer than a year....
My expenses are fuel and a bed if necessary lol...
What would you expect to pick up in work for a days canvassing? Do you have targets that you usually achieve?
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If you look back through the posts i have only just decided to give this a go, i built and sold my own round last year so i do know what i am doing. Just tried to put email in profile and not sure it worked or not. Will add my website at bottom. I have also enquired about advertising for business on here....
I am going to give this 100% and make this work for all people involved...
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All contact details are on my website shown at the bottom....
Just for the record we would aim for 150 a day between 2 of us....
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You know what I would be up for it. I'm saving up for a system for my van and to get it wrapped then I would be well up for it. If I could work out your expenses that would make it so easy to work out how often I could afford to get it done.
I'm guessing around £80 for fuel and then a room in a hotel?
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Where are you? Will work out the mileage and let you know exactly and whether it would be better to stay over if you want more than a day at a time. Would suggest you only have one day at a time to start....
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I'm on the Wirral mate. I know what your saying about one day at a time first. I'm thinking along them lines but I've really sat down and gone over and over the price of advertising so I was doing a quick work out in my head of what it would cost long term as well as getting bits and pieces done in the near future done.
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You are looking at 60 a day in fuel, but thats your only outlay really as you can pay my bill with the money you collect...
All you need is a spare day and three crisp 20 pound notes lol
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Sounds like a plan! I'm up for that. I'm aiming to book in Feb would that be okay?
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I have two local guys i am starting for in the new year but the sooner the better lol just get in contact soon and we will book a date. Will need as much notice as possible....
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call me tomorrow on 07828444778 and we can have a proper chat about it then.
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Will do, talk soon
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George, do you know GD Roundbuilders?
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Yes it was me but was trying to start with a clean slate and do things differently...
I want to now do things how they should be done, had more problems than you will ever know but i am sure all you judgemental people who dont even know me have already made your mind up.....