Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: derek west on December 15, 2011, 06:31:21 pm
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think it was bob who said painters and decorators earn a nice crust, was doing the carpets in a house today and the P&D was there, got talking (as ya do) and asked him how much he was charging, £80 a day he said, all though some guys round here get £150 a day. not sure about the rest of the country but that hardly seems like a good wage. £80 a day equates to £400 for a standard week, less expenses, hmmmmmm. might as well not bother. luckily, he never asked me how much my 2 hour job was. ;D
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My thoughts exactley. :D
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Ditto and I'm poor!
Shaun
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Don't forget Derek that he probably hasn't got
even half the outgoings you've got.
No expensive gear to buy, keep serviced and
replace.
Most of the P and D's I know don't even need
to advertise.
No marketing, flyers to buy etc.
Did a P and D house just round corner from where
I live who also goes in my local.
He started at 16 and has just retired at 65 and he
told me he advertised for his first 4 weeks in business
and never bothered after that and was always booked
solid 5 and 6 days a week.
John
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John has a point about the outgoings.
Aparantly I should be spending £100 a day :-\
Still wouldn't swap jobs though!! ;D
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john, yeah suppose to some degree your right, but they still have petrol insurance accountants wear and tear etc... and at £80 a day that just don't add up, okay £150 a day and its a nice earner especially with no advertising etc... but then at £150 a day, your competing with the rug painters who charge £80 a day and so you still have to sell yourself. ps... i'm no P&D myself but his work looked spot on.
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My late dad was a P&D,always told me to avoid the trade due to people doing their own jobs and too many cowboys.Bit like CC really ;D
When you think about it now,work for P&D must have diminished a lot due to UPVC windows and doors ect.Outside work was the mainstay of his business for 8 months of the year in those days.
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The P&D we got in to do my mother-in-laws place whilst we were away on holiday charged £130 a day and that with a 40 mile round journey for 4 days, and we had to book him 4 months in advance of the job.
How many on here would work for that?
Umm thought so....not many
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double his prices and spend 20% of his earning on advertising, he will lose some jobs for being too expensive but still will be fully booked with 80% pure profit extra.
they think becuase they are constantly booked they must be doing something right......... but we all could be fully booked if we charged £10 a room
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They are not all cheap cheap cheap. I had my livingroom painted recently and the chap charged me £400. Took him 2 days, 9am till 3pm.
That included the paint, two coats on the walls and ceiling, radiators painted, all wood worked painted i.e. cornice, three door frames, bay window, skirting boards etc. And he sanded all the walls and wood work too.
He's been self employed for three years, doesn't advertise, works out of an estate car and has the same ladders and brushs since he started.
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When you start off cc then it's slow then it starts to roll a bit 20 years on you can earn a small mint, a P & D will start off with a full week and 20 years later he'll be 5 weeks+ in front but the difference is we get paid by the job and if you have the work all year round then it pays better than day rate which most P & D's are on.
Shaun
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The guy who does mine charges £130 per day.
Materials are extra.
He needs booking a minimum 6 week in advance.
Sometimes if it's a small job he's off by 3.
That's say £2800 per month with a couple of saturdays
thrown in.
Less say 22% for taxes and NI after his yearly allowance
is taken into account.
That's say £620 w/o any fiddling so £2180 per month.
Say £70 per month fuel round here because it's well
populated so most work won't be far away.
£20 per month insurance.
£50 per month tackle which is probably on topside.
Let's say £2000.
£20 tax and £20 insurance for van.
£160 for lease/loan for van if he don't own it yet.
£1800 profit per month.
I could live on that.
John
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Many P and D's work 7 days also.
Shaun
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My P & D is the wife :D
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Mine to.
Cutting in is not her forte or is considering dust sheets.
If I was to criticize, you know what the answer would be.
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The guy who does mine charges £130 per day.
Materials are extra.
He needs booking a minimum 6 week in advance.
Sometimes if it's a small job he's off by 3.
That's say £2800 per month with a couple of saturdays
thrown in.
Less say 22% for taxes and NI after his yearly allowance
is taken into account.
That's say £620 w/o any fiddling so £2180 per month.
Say £70 per month fuel round here because it's well
populated so most work won't be far away.
£20 per month insurance.
£50 per month tackle which is probably on topside.
Let's say £2000.
£20 tax and £20 insurance for van.
£160 for lease/loan for van if he don't own it yet.
£1800 profit per month.
I could live on that.
John
whats interesting about this is it illustrate how a small increase in price can make a big increase in profit.
on a £130 a day he earns £450 profit a week if he put his prices up by £20 a day he would make a full £120 extra pure profit a week.... so a small increase makes him an extra 25% more money.
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A little secret we found a while ago
http://www.easywalls.co.uk/?gclid=CPHmhfz6hK0CFUVTfAod4yc0SA
Cutting in is so easyyyyyy ;D
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double his prices and spend 20% of his earning on advertising, he will lose some jobs for being too expensive but still will be fully booked with 80% pure profit extra.
they think becuase they are constantly booked they must be doing something right......... but we all could be fully booked if we charged £10 a room
I thought you had a problem retaining customers?
I hardly think a P&D would want advice from you..... ;D
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double his prices and spend 20% of his earning on advertising, he will lose some jobs for being too expensive but still will be fully booked with 80% pure profit extra.they think becuase they are constantly booked they must be doing something right......... but we all could be fully booked if we charged £10 a room
I thought you had a problem retaining customers?
I hardly think a P&D would want advice from you..... ;D
obviously you missed this bit I've put in bold ;) ;)
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double his prices and spend 20% of his earning on advertising, he will lose some jobs for being too expensive but still will be fully booked with 80% pure profit extra.they think becuase they are constantly booked they must be doing something right......... but we all could be fully booked if we charged £10 a room
I thought you had a problem retaining customers?
I hardly think a P&D would want advice from you..... ;D
obviously you missed this bit I've put in bold ;) ;)
I'm only pulling your leg.... ;D
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on the other side of the coin i had a guy fit the steel liner for my wood-burning stove and he charged me £800 for 1.5hrs work .... robbing bas-turd
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I need to get on the 'steel liner forum'
Shaun
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I need to get on the 'steel liner forum'
Shaun
Here you are
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/907648-Rust-on-steel-liners
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Thanks Neil my cousin has 7 fireplace shops can't be hard can it?
Shaun
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I'm a P & D by trade, used to be able to paper a lounge in 4 -5 hrs .
Hated every minute of it... :(
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I'm a P & D by trade, used to be able to paper a lounge in 4 -5 hrs .
You should have used the MAXX470 wallpaperer, you'd have done it in 2.5 hours ;D
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Hi Guys
I know lots of painters and decorators and they do o.k , nothing special.
The ones that really make the money are the ones who employ and take on the big contracts.
Cheers
doug
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Had Dynorod out today although on an Insurance job
However to replace my taps they want £65 an hour
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Price to paper a feature wall around £155 normally 3-4 rolls time to do max 2.5hrs not a bad rate.
Tony
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doug said it right , if you employ people and take on good contracts the money is there but guys think about it how many of you would pay any tradesman to work in your house on a day rate ? you would all be to frightened you would get ripped off and you would probably be right.
I have been in the game a long time and i have not come across many domestic customers willing to have work done on a day rate nor have i come across many decorators willing to work on day rate (for domestic customers) . we all get the odd job where we can come out with £200 a day with luck and no complications but the reality is we all think we can work as fast at 50 as when we were 30 but we cant and as someone who is currently working as a decorator and a carpet cleaner i can tell you i come home a lot sooner , a lot happier , and with more money in my pocket when i do a days carpet cleaning than i do when i do a days painting.
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Not best pleased with a P & D yesterday. Had a 2 bed rental property to do. New tenants wanted to move in before christmas so squeezed it in. There was paint spills all over every carpet and as I'd surveyed and priced before he did the work. It should have been a mornings work, but turned into the best part of a day.
Bah humbug! >:(
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Not best pleased with a P & D yesterday. Had a 2 bed rental property to do. New tenants wanted to move in before christmas so squeezed it in. There was paint spills all over every carpet and as I'd surveyed and priced before he did the work. It should have been a mornings work, but turned into the best part of a day.
Bah humbug! >:(
Note to Elfyn.......
"price subject to condition as seen on Wed 12.4 2011(or whatever the date)"
Did you know there were P & D's going in before you?
If so, easily covered with "price and service does not include any paint spillages etc. which if not removed immediately may become permanent"
:)
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Price to paper a feature wall around £155 normally 3-4 rolls time to do max 2.5hrs not a bad rate.
Tony
What a light weight, I would do that today in an hour and a bit.
Come to think of it £155 an hour, perhaps its not too bad after all, I might pick up the brushes again. ;D
I was also trained in Rag Rollling and Marbeling by proper tradesmen not the if you can pyss you can paint brigade we have today.
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I suppose it's similar to C/C ...........I'm really surprised at the prices mentioned on here as they're are lower than cheap P and D's were charging 30 years ago but I suppose Householders can buy loads of gadgets and sit in on mini seminars in B and Q then imagine they know " how to do " just about anything which must cream off a massive volume of Traditional Painters 's work.
As I type I'm realising that most on here have grown up in a totally different Work environment from me.
In my teens and twenties we still had an excellent Education System which supplied candidates for apprenticeships via Junior Secondary Schools and the system worked fine until idealistic Socialist Politicians decided it was not a fair system and EVERYONE should be able to go to University..............What followed has been well documented but the end result is that youngsters who were non academic but could have become HAPPY and WELL PAID in work that suited their abilities while the more academic types pursued the " Professions " Ironically in recent times the tradespeople's earnings have risen sharply ( at least they have around here ) and I know of a few who returned to working as Painters/Decorators and the quotes been privy to over the past 20 years equate to gross earnings of around £400 per day.
In many cases they use the same trick as plumbers where they start a job and leave it after a couple of hours to go to another and possibly a third something we can't do in this industry.
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In my teens and twenties we still had an excellent Education System which supplied candidates for apprenticeships via Junior Secondary Schools and the system worked fine until idealistic Socialist Politicians decided it was not a fair system and EVERYONE should be able to go to University..............What followed has been well documented but the end result is that youngsters who were non academic but could have become HAPPY and WELL PAID in work that suited their abilities while the more academic types pursued the " Professions "
You are correct in that. What it really boils down to is supply and demand, some years back the Queen struggled to find a plumber to be on the Royal payroll, why? because the wage was £60k and every plumber worth his salt was earning more than so none applied. what happened then was that every Tom, Dick & Harry thought I'll have some of that then and in a short time the market place was flooded with plumbers and the prices went down.
The same thing is happening with graduates. There was a time when only the select few went through uni and subsequently got the best jobs with the best wages, now everyone at 18 goes there as a right and comes out at 21 with masters degrees means the wages have gone down.
Of course on the plus side the manual labour market has benefited because no one wanted to 'work' for their living and prices went up.
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A masters degree take a lot more work than a basic one . A masters has become what a plain degree once was. My daughter can barely spell , and does not comprehend a 24 hour clock , yet is well on her way to completing a social work degree, its a mad system
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It's a system that politicians of all parties can't / won't address.
They know it's wrong but in order to keep the unemployment numbers down, the more who stay in education for as long as possible the better the figures show.
Perhaps the better way would be to show the number of people IN EMPLOYMENT not the other way.
For a so called intelligent group those coming out of university crack me up when they say they can't get a job because of the number applying for each job, clearly they can't understand supply and demand.
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the weird thing about this P&D i was talking too was the fact that i was too embarassed to tell him how much i was getting paid for my 2 hours work. i seem to feel that out of all the services, cleaning is at the bottom of the ladder and yet i would guess that on the average (one man band operators) we're the highest paid, my advice! shhhhhh lets keep it that way, no one will ever know ;D
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"Note to Elfyn.......
"price subject to condition as seen on Wed 12.4 2011(or whatever the date)"
Did you know there were P & D's going in before you?
If so, easily covered with "price and service does not include any paint spillages etc. which if not removed immediately may become permanent""
That would be my normal terms Helen BUT -
Unfortunately, This job was for a Rental Agency that I have, over about 10 years, done a lot of work for. The P&D they normally use is as good as gold - never have any spills. What I didn't know was that the property owner insisted on using his own P&D. I've kicked up a stink and said that I'm going to charge for the extra time spent, but as the Rental Agent is such a valued customer I probably won't.
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the weird thing about this P&D i was talking too was the fact that i was too embarassed to tell him how much i was getting paid for my 2 hours work. i seem to feel that out of all the services, cleaning is at the bottom of the ladder and yet i would guess that on the average (one man band operators) we're the highest paid, my advice! shhhhhh lets keep it that way, no one will ever know ;D
Your starting to get the point...................... ;)
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2 degrees to my name and 14 years working in a "profession"
13 years as a cc.
Would I go back to my former life?
Well nowadays....
I sleep better
I eat better
I've lost weight
I'm fitter
I'm stronger
I have little or no stress
My hours of work have now crept upto the level I was working
My annual pay....................?
Well lets just say I won't be reverting to my former job as there is no comparison..
Rog
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Hey Rog we got something in common its 2 degrees here at the moment ;D ;D
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Just shows you how lazy bankers are :o
Shaun
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2 degrees to my name and 14 years working in a "profession"
Yes but you probably got yours when the subjects actually meant something and there was a chance that you could fail it.
The current lot are coming out with degrees in TV watching (media studies) and advanced hair removal (beuti therapy) which is a cop out on what university should be about. But on the plus side, the more who go to uni, the less there is likely to start manual labour businesses.
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Just shows you how lazy bankers are
Shaun ;D ;D
Laughed my ar$e off at that one!!
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The time was when a trade meant somthing I started at 15 signed my indentures at 16 and came out of my time at 21 now six months down the road they think they know it all. Having tried on many occasions to employ them trust me they don't
Tony
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Hey Rog we got something in common its 2 degrees here at the moment ;D ;D
Hi Steve
Good job I didn't say 3 degrees-might have had Prince Charles on here expressing interest ;)
Rog
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Just shows you how lazy bankers are
Shaun ;D ;D
Laughed my ar$e off at that one!!
At least Shaun knows his "b" from his "w" :o
Rog
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Yeah, just a shame he talks wollocks half the time ;D
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3 degrees you dirty old man ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHoDax1WJuQ
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The time was when a trade meant somthing I started at 15 signed my indentures at 16 and came out of my time at 21 now six months down the road they think they know it all. Having tried on many occasions to employ them trust me they don't
Tony
I mentioned indentures to one of my customers who done a 6 month course in plastering now passing himself off as a plasterer, I like you signed my indentures attended college day release doing my Onc then went back to do the high national later. I miss them apprenticeship days so much the laughs we used have no good now too much health and safety
Our decorator charges £50 a day because I know him normally charges £75 he took 2 1/2 days to do our stairs and lounge when I gave him £150 he tried giving me £25 back as he had not been there a full day,didn't have the heart to tell I'd just made what I was paying him for a couple of hours work.
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So really they charging a Five Day Rate rather than a Day Rate.
Dave