Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mark_roberts on December 08, 2011, 11:10:38 pm
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Havent had the TM v portable debate in a while and with the introduction of supposedly new vacuum technology for portables and along with auto feed and dump and diesel heaters or similar.
Has the time come to seriously reconsider the need for a petrol TM to clean domestic carpets given that an electric machine can equal almost all advantages apart from vacuum of a TM.
Thanks
Mark
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Don't be silly.
Doesn't matter what gizmos they add to a bucket on wheels, it will never out perform, clean as well, or as quickly and efficiently as a TM.
Right, that's stirred things up nicely, I'm off ;D
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Hi Guys
No!!
Cheers
Doug
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Don't be silly.
Doesn't matter what gizmos they add to a bucket on wheels, it will never out perform, clean as well, or as quickly and efficiently as a TM.
Right, that's stirred things up nicely, I'm off ;D
What he said!!!! ;D ;D
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I refer the right honourable gentleman to the previous 256,000 threads on the subject!!!!
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Both do the same job one at the low end of the scale the other the high end .
so if you have x number off customers that need cleaning in y number off hours to clean them = z amount off hours needed. then on a sliding scale off A being the lowest machine possible and z being the highest machine possible when x number possible with A then you need to move on to the next level ,to you get to max number x and z machine is reached simple really ;D
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My mate Glynn was telling me about his recent experience with a porty (yes, we all have one), he said the effing thing couldn't suck the smoke off a fAg. He said a few other things about it to but are unrepeatable on here. ;D
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Simon is it about your ego or is it about making Money . what drives your internal id having one bigger than the next guy , I think this size issue is a thing that is playing on your mind ;D ;D
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Simon is it about your ego or is it about making Money . what drives your internal id having one bigger than the next guy , I think this size issue is a thing that is playing on your mind ;D ;D
Neil,
You're quite right, it is about making money, you can make a lot more of it with a TM ;)
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I still couldn't justify having a TM... Unless you can clean ovens with one... ;D
I got the heat, the psi from the electro-diesel "Zeta" and the suction to do a cracking job from the fantastic Jaguar 6.6, but.... I know someone who has a Numatic CDT machine, he's a lot busier than me and his customer's are happy. He's making more money than me as a result. Says it all really, I'm almost embarrassed that I thought I was better than him because I have a more powerful set up... How wrong can you be? :(
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Colin has summed it up perfectly
It means sod all what you've got,
It's what you do with it!
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Simon is it about your ego or is it about making Money . what drives your internal id having one bigger than the next guy , I think this size issue is a thing that is playing on your mind ;D ;D
Neil,
You're quite right, it is about making money, you can make a lot more of it with a TM ;)
You "CAN", but that doesn't necessarily mean you do. Customers are more price concious than ever so they aren't bothered that the TM guy has to charge more than the guy with the Karcher "Sud Squirter" They wouldn't know a Rug Doctor from a Titan to be fair....
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Thats right buy a TM ..... theeeere greaaat... tie up one of your biggest investments - van - so that you cant offer other services (which pay far better + reg work - not booked one day in advance ;D ;D ;D) Bye ;D im off ....
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No...no..NO! Don't buy a TM, they are crap, honest!
Rug Doctors rule ;D
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Why even bother with a hi- power portable? There are quite a few people who make a good living with a 2nd hand scrubber thrown in the back of their estate car and as far as the customer is concerned they have cleaned the carpet.
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No...no..NO! Don't buy a TM, they are crap, honest!
Rug Doctors rule ;D
I would never say a TM is crap, of course they aren't crap. Being a carpet cleaner, I can fully appreciate the fact that they DO make your life so much easier, that's a given...
Rug Doctor's ARE crap, but have you ever tried telling a Rug Doctor user that, they refuse to believe you.
A friend of ours uses a Bissel and cleans her carpets every 3 weeks (OCD, big time) She let me have a go yesterday with her rug (Oh Matron!) so I could prove a point and she said she still thinks her Bissel does just as good a job....
>:(
Bloody Philistine ;D
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;D ;D
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I use a twin porty but I only do domestic nowadays.
If I did a load of commercial it would have to be a TM.
Horses for courses.
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i lost out on a job the other week to a chap with a TM.... not on power performance cleanability etc... ON PRICE...he was cheaper!... and i dont consider myself expensive!....
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I know someone who clears £800+ per week with a transit connect working 40-50 hours as a courier , the van cost him 11k .
I have a neighbour who makes £300 a week with a merc actros 460bhp tractor unit he double shifts with his brother pulling containers from ports to warehouses, his truck cost him £65k plus vat .
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If I was to go down the TM route think I would
go for the Prowler.
Punches it's weight and is removable.
John
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So has any one actually compared say the jag with heat to a small TM for domestic work.
For commercial bar work TM rules but I dont do that so not looking for that comparison.
Mark
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Hi Guys
The big difference I noticed when going TM was that achieving a really good job was much easier as well as quicker.
I do not get the aches and pains as before and miss trhe rush hour home, all helps to make life a bit easier as the years roll on !
Cheers
Doug
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If I was to go down the TM route think I would
go for the Prowler.
Punches it's weight and is removable.
John
Yes, but it is very limited in its application, espcially if you're thinking of doing commercial work. I think most sweitch to a TM because they want to broaden out the kinds of work they can take on.
Simon
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Tm for me equals speed and dry I have a Jag and it's not as fast or as dry like for like but it costs approx were 5 cheaper the Tm is still cheaper than staff quality of clean is down to the cleaner so to answer Mark's question with another question, "how fast do you want to clean?"
Shaun
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the problem with subject like this is that every thing is looked on as an us and them situation but as Simon has said we are all portable users. Before I had a truckmount I can remember at leat 20+ hwe machines that I have owned. I have modified and improved and also have years experience at using several different truckmounts. The problem is that you do not see very much difference in performance but the difference is vast. If you are running a machine from 2 plugs the maximum constant load that you can run is 5 H.P..
I do not know where anybody went to school but that is a vast vast difference to 20+ h.p.. I just fail to see how anybody can really get taken into that the perfomance is comparable in any way. Truckmount owners are speaking from experience not hearsay.
It does not matter what advances have been made there is a vast difference.
I find it hard to believe that with the opportunities you have with the members of this forum to seee equipment in action that people still insist on putting up stupid aguments.
If do not have a truckmount then you are seeing only one side of the coin quite obviously people are not going to call you up to tell you that they are only going to use truckmount operators, so you are quite obviously you are only going to meet the people that have no objection to the equiment that you advertise.
If we say that we have compared on thing against another then we get all ther people that use (say rotary against a crb for aggitation) then all the rotary users are posting as if we have just called their mothers prostitutes.
I believe that the forum is a fantastic source of information for all but I do think that a lot of things are reacted to in a very childish manner. If I had seen a forum like this before it would have saved me a very lot of expensive mistakes.
Some people on here have a vast experience of lots of diferent equipment and people should really sit back and think constructively about what is being said instead of treating posts like some sort of personal insult.
If andbody ever wants to compare one system against another then I am more than happy to show anyhthing that I have.
I do not know everything and do not have the best equipment but I am always trying to improve. I would be happy if my bussiness could always afford to buy the best and that is what I will keep aiming for. The better your equipment and your talents the less competition you will have.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com][url]www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://[url)[/url]
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I agree with what Peter says , with the additional view that as well as bigger more powerful equipment doing a better job this does not always mean more profit.
Who would leave an employee in charge of a 30k TM even after training , who would leave an employee in charge of a £500 buffer , most people.
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I would imagine a buffer could do some damage too in a house, in untrained hands :)
Andrew
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blimey peter, don't you spout on!!!!!!!!!! I had to read that in 2 halves, i fell asleep!!!!!!! ;D ;D
to save everyone a bit of reading, what peter is trying to say is, TM is better than portable, end of!!!!!!!!!! If you want to see the difference, speak to him!!!!!!!
See, that would have saved you loads of typing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I skipped the long post. (I always do) I like a person who can summarize efficiently,well done Billy.... ;D
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£500 rotary do £25k pa
£30k tm do £60k pa
You do the maths on which creates the best ROI ;D
Right I'm off to bed before I get my post verbally kicked to death ;D ;D
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[quote author=petermaybury
If you are running a machine from 2 plugs the maximum constant load that you can run is 5 H.P..
[/quote]
5 max on the one circuit ?
5 = 3700 watts
using one house circuit per cord you could double that .
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I don't get this "you need a truckmount if you are doing big commercials" it basically cuts down on time no matter what size job you are doing. For big commercials get the buffer out. A lot of them are out of hours anyway so the noise is a factor.
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£500 rotary do £25k pa
£30k tm do £60k pa
You do the maths on which creates the best ROI ;D
Right I'm off to bed before I get my post verbally kicked to death ;D ;D
Why would the rotary operator only do £25k ?
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let the kicking commence!
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£500 rotary do £25k pa
£30k tm do £60k pa
You do the maths on which creates the best ROI ;D
Right I'm off to bed before I get my post verbally kicked to death ;D ;D
Why would the rotary operator only do £25k ?
Good question Robert..... I work a lot quicker than a truckmount can..... I did a job for an ex member of this forum, and when I had finished he said that he would only just have got the TM warmed up....
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[quote author=petermaybury
If you are running a machine from 2 plugs the maximum constant load that you can run is 5 H.P..
5 max on the one circuit ?
5 = 3700 watts
using one house circuit per cord you could double that .
[/quote]
More John, more... Your posts have been helping me with my insomnia ;D
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Why would the rotary operator only do £25k ?
It was just a figure, it could just have well been any figure even as low as £10k if need be.
The point being ROI is far better with a rotary, that doesn't mean a rotary is suitable for every job. My first method of attack is HWE but sometimes there's no need for that and if a rotary gets the job done then rotary it is.
But anyway I'm never going to argue that portable is better than TM because it's not, but a portable is cheaper to run and if you're organised as quick to set up as a TM.
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No one can ever deny that a TM is better if the question is which sucks best ,and pumps out the hottest water most consistently , any TM would win every time .
If the question is which is the most convenient, profitable ,user friendly , then the TM can be beaten in most scenarios
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Yawn...................
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Jason.
Utter rubbish!
That doesn't mean to say that other systems aren't good, but a TM gives you the opportunity to produce stunning results (which glues your customers to you) whilst at the same time practically printing money.
Simon
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£500 rotary do £25k pa
£30k tm do £60k pa
You do the maths on which creates the best ROI ;D
Right I'm off to bed before I get my post verbally kicked to death ;D ;D
Why would the rotary operator only do £25k ?
Good question Robert..... I work a lot quicker than a truckmount can..... I did a job for an ex member of this forum, and when I had finished he said that he would only just have got the TM warmed up, but at least I'd of done a proper job...
;D
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Not all TM owners limit themselves to £60k pa.
Shaun
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No one can ever deny that a TM is better if the question is which sucks best ,and pumps out the hottest water most consistently , any TM would win every time .
If the question is which is the most convenient, profitable ,user friendly , then the TM can be beaten in most scenarios
i can think of 100s of scenarios that other systems would beat a T/M but we don't clean a 100 different scenario's ......99% of the time we deal with 1 scenario a normal domestic home with dirty carpets. for this scenarios then the T/M wins hands down.
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Normally I pull up, wheel the porty (Jag) to the door etc, plug the Zeta into an outside tap and electrics and rely on that for constant, red hot water supply. The porty has auto dump so there is no bucket emptying and certainly no filling from an electric shower.
I can now appreciate how much of a ball ache and a waste of time the whole emptying/filling really is and I can definitely see the benefits of running a TM.
I just wish I had 3 jobs a day to justify buying one..... :(
But as far as getting great results go, I'm more than happy that I am doing just a good a job as the TM boys... (And girls!)
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£500 rotary do £25k pa
£30k tm do £60k pa
You do the maths on which creates the best ROI ;D
Right I'm off to bed before I get my post verbally kicked to death ;D ;D
[
Why would the rotary operator only do £25k ?
Good question Robert..... I work a lot quicker than a truckmount can..... I did a job for an ex member of this forum, and when I had finished he said that he would only just have got the TM warmed up....
Hector,
Stop doing drugs, mate ;D
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I do a lot of houses in the middle of Guildford and due to parking restrictions I wouldn't get a tm parked near enough . So tm for me would reduce earnings .
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i like truckmounts, but then i like portable, but which ones better, theres only one way to find out ;D
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Derek all you need is the glasses ;D
Shaun
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And the oversized collars!
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portables are better than truckmounts, oh for gods sake knock it off will you.
Merry Christmass however you clean carpets
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I do a lot of houses in the middle of Guildford and due to parking restrictions I wouldn't get a tm parked near enough . So tm for me would reduce earnings . how would you tm users cope with that .
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I live in a small market town with very narrow streets where the van would totally block the street. it is impossible to use a T/M just like it is in lots of towns in the UK.
but this is the biggest excuse going for not having a truck mount........, these streets equates to about 2% of all the streets, considering only 14% of the population have their carpets cleaned I lose 0.002% of my potential customers because of parking problems
its just excuses
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The real excuse is.... Most people can't afford a TM.... simple as that!!!
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i dont want one this year i will change my scorpion for a jag job done . and im not bothered about saving time because even when im really busy ill have 3 job done by 2oclock . if we all had 5 or 6 jobs a day it would be ok but i bet theres not many on here get more than 2 jobs a day .
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I do 4 to 5 per day. Couldn't manage without the TM.
Simon
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I do 4 to 5 per day.
NO. You can't count living room, dining room, hallway, stairs, landing as 5 jobs Simon....you should know better by now ;D
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Neil,
Leave me alone, I'm doing my best ;D ;D
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Truckmount's are just better in every way. All these mounting portables in vans are just want to be Truckmount operators. In the last two years I can only think of three jobs where I had to get the portable out because of access. Heats better suctions better jobs easier etc etc
Tony
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Tony,
Agreed. Shhhh, tho, you'll upset the other people, you know the ones with plastic buckets with motors attached to them ;) ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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Well, I'm happy with my plastic buckets... Whenever it goes wrong (Which it hasn't) it costs a few hundred quid at most to fix with almost no down-time. With a TM or even if the van goes titz, you're out of work, out of pocket...
I'll still probably end up with a TM, but I'll be sure I know how to fix the thing myself before I do... ;)
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Tony,
Agreed. Shhhh, tho, you'll upset the other people, you know the ones with plastic buckets with motors attached to them ;) ;D
You leave my sucking dustbin alone you bully ;D
It's not pretty but I love it and anyway the customer can't see it. :D
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'sucking dustbin' ;D I love it ;D ;D
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sorry but am too busy to watch the forum all the time! I was hoping that somebody would pick me up on the claim to voltage to h.p. it is possible to do with heat ressistant cables and the blue plugs but because of constant load ampage you could not get a manufacturer to supply such a beast what I was trying to emphasise is that the two trouckmounts and portables are incomparable. Those of us that have the two can be made too use the portable and it is in no wat shape or form comparable to a truckmount. The recent advance that manufacturers have made in vacuums and constant feeds were something that a lot of us in the industry were doing 20 years ago. The difference between the theoretical portable at the top end of the portable market (4hp) is not comparable to the bottom end of the truckmount market(20 hp). You can go anywhere further down the portable market to get further away from the upper end of the truckmount market. You actually need to see the two side by side to see that they are incomparable.
Do not make your van into a dedicated carpet cleaning vehicle ( people might mistake you for a professional)
Take note of the machine salesmen they know it all...........
The prowler will not give you the best of both worlds as you will have an underpowered truckmount that you cannot push very far or take up any stair cases or slopes.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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sorry but am too busy to watch the forum all the time! I was hoping that somebody would pick me up on the claim to voltage to h.p. it is possible to do with heat ressistant cables and the blue plugs but because of constant load ampage you could not get a manufacturer to supply such a beast what I was trying to emphasise is that the two trouckmounts and portables are incomparable. Those of us that have the two can be made too use the portable and it is in no wat shape or form comparable to a truckmount. The recent advance that manufacturers have made in vacuums and constant feeds were something that a lot of us in the industry were doing 20 years ago. The difference between the theoretical portable at the top end of the portable market (4hp) is not comparable to the bottom end of the truckmount market(20 hp). You can go anywhere further down the portable market to get further away from the upper end of the truckmount market. You actually need to see the two side by side to see that they are incomparable.
Do not make your van into a dedicated carpet cleaning vehicle ( people might mistake you for a professional)
Take note of the machine salesmen they know it all...........
The prowler will not give you the best of both worlds as you will have an underpowered truckmount that you cannot push very far or take up any stair cases or slopes.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
your theoretical top end portable is not limited to 4 HP ( which would be a 3000w twinvac) neither should you need special wires or plugs , As best practice you should be using 2.5 mm wire for high power applications ,and neither is it a constant load in general use .
There is no reason why you cannot have, for eg, a quad vac (8HP ) running on two cords on two house circuits ...
the reason quad vacs and even triple vacs are not as popular has more to do with production costs and practical design than electrical issues ..
The recent advance that manufacturers have made in vacuums and constant feeds were something that a lot of us in the industry were doing 20 years ago
Can you explain the above statement :)
As far the Prowler not been ' the best of both worlds' im sure you could argue a case for its strengths ... no cords ... onboard heat ...fairly low cost , actually some here have spent almost as much on a Jag and a hot powerwasher ... and still dont have near as much performance ;D
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sorry but am too busy to watch the forum all the time! I was hoping that somebody would pick me up on the claim to voltage to h.p. it is possible to do with heat ressistant cables and the blue plugs but because of constant load ampage you could not get a manufacturer to supply such a beast what I was trying to emphasise is that the two trouckmounts and portables are incomparable. Those of us that have the two can be made too use the portable and it is in no wat shape or form comparable to a truckmount. The recent advance that manufacturers have made in vacuums and constant feeds were something that a lot of us in the industry were doing 20 years ago. The difference between the theoretical portable at the top end of the portable market (4hp) is not comparable to the bottom end of the truckmount market(20 hp). You can go anywhere further down the portable market to get further away from the upper end of the truckmount market. You actually need to see the two side by side to see that they are incomparable.
Do not make your van into a dedicated carpet cleaning vehicle ( people might mistake you for a professional)
Take note of the machine salesmen they know it all...........
The prowler will not give you the best of both worlds as you will have an underpowered truckmount that you cannot push very far or take up any stair cases or slopes.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
your theoretical top end portable is not limited to 4 HP ( which would be a 3000w twinvac) neither should you need special wires or plugs , As best practice you should be using 2.5 mm wire for high power applications ,and neither is it a constant load in general use .
There is no reason why you cannot have, for eg, a quad vac (8HP ) running on two cords on two house circuits ...
the reason quad vacs and even triple vacs are not as popular has more to do with production costs and practical design than electrical issues ..
The recent advance that manufacturers have made in vacuums and constant feeds were something that a lot of us in the industry were doing 20 years ago
Can you explain the above statement :)
As far the Prowler not been ' the best of both worlds' im sure you could argue a case for its strengths ... no cords ... onboard heat ...fairly low cost , actually some here have spent almost as much on a Jag and a hot powerwasher ... and still dont have near as much performance ;D
My Jag and Zeta are getting results that are wowing my customers, especially the regulars. One I did yesterday at a Chinese restaurant said "How comes it's only taken you an hour? It's always taken you at least 2 hours in the past.." I explained it's probably because there's no filling and emptying, the heat of the water is cutting through the grease better and because the SPM does a better job than the PB I used on all previous jobs.... ;)
To top it off, the carpets were touch dry on my departure....
The TM I would like is £17k, my set up was sub £4k... You do the math :P
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When you get more work reguarly you'll find that the amount of time you spend on 'machine movement' becomes expensive compared to your math believe me I have had the same thoughts myself if a TM was expensive compared I would have gotten rid of mine by now.
Shaun
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I do a night club carpet twice a year, scorpion with inline heater took 5 hrs,
16hp TM did it in 3 1/2
my new Maxx470 does it in 2 1/2 hrs
Andrew
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Bloody Amateur!
Shaun
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A lot of people are missing the point. Most truckmounters were where the people that have been in the industry for a few years a long time ago. I used to have these ill informed opinions of truckmounts that I had never had any experience of.
I started and used portables for years and moved on but at the time I thought that I had good equipment. The veiws that I had about truckmounts were veiws that were made talking to other people with portables. It was not until I saw 2 people doing with a truckmount what I was doing with 5 portables on site and paying 5 peoples wages. that the penny finally dropped. As for advances in vacuum there has not been a lot most are still using thbe same ametek motors that were around 30 years ago. Constant feed is fine if the connection is outside and what you are feeding is outside and there is not any joints or weak places that are inside. I thought that I could configure something better than other but the reality it that the money in the industry is where the truckmounts are.
What ever arguments you come up against the truckmount is the ultimately designed machine for doing the job. It is the system that the majors customers in the industry use. In the last few years technology in truckmounts has moved further forward than portable machines. The latest machine are giving far more perfomance to h.p. are a lot less complex electrically and more economical to run. As for the techy side have had a hard day and will have a look tomorrow if time permits...........
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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Guys
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Ian, what an utter pile of crap.
Just goes to show, customers will believe anything!
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I agree with Ian because I believe in applying logic to the physics which is what that is.
Which leads me onto:
What is the difference between unethical and ethical advertising? Unethical advertising uses falsehoods to deceive the public; ethical advertising uses truth to deceive the public.
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What about the health angle, i switched to t/mount because of the possible ::) long term health implications of portable machines.
Dave
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What about the health angle, i switched to t/mount because of the possible ::) long term health implications of portable machines.
Dave
What ??? ???
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Neil
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Jim
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Where did I say that?
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I don't think the prowler is under powered. For the majority of work it is plenty powerful enough. I use mine for mainly domestic and the odd pub and office if not low profile and find it delivers all i need. For large commercial i usually bonnet.
The great plus i think the prowler has is the ease of maintenance and low running costs. If the machine needs any work doing on it, take it out the van and its easy access to parts.
I hook mine up to a 500ltr tank in the van, use a hydro force sprayer and i think i have a great set up for the type of work i do.
If you need to run dual operator , massively long hose runs, do cruise ships, minging night clubs then you you may need something more.
I know john used a prowler for flood and fire work.
The back up with the prowler is second to none as well.
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It’s totally BS trying to compare the two (and yes I had one/two or three actually one ;D)
Look at a job Thursday no way would I do it even with the most powerful porty (black max) carpets rank and two flights of stairs to cart up. Job done this morning with the reliable TM and on double yellow lines (at any time) will be changing my billboard to look more official Ghanaian (what a lovely bloke).
Ian
It dose ring and I dont advertise and with the upmost respect why respects ???
Yoda aka len
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Performance wise a series/parallel quadvac could compete with a 13hp / roots 33
This is the only example i can find using some of the new gen motors but these are pretty much prowler figures ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVIBnuq50h4
( this could be a two cord system @ 230v)
If someone stuck two more 6.6 up the jaguars silencer they could get similar figures ...
Even though the Americans are disadvantaged electrically , entry TMs cost little more than porty over here , and gas is cheap , they still have more innovative portys than the UK .
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I`ve had t/ms and portables over the years and currently running a woodbridge 25. I have a ninja 2vac 400psi machine as a back up or where I cant get the t/m to. I have to say that it feels like the ninja is even working properly compared to the t/m. Very poor vacuum and waterflow but still wouldnt be without one whatever make. If I could get comparable power from an electric tm, I would buy one tomorrow!
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I`ve had t/ms and portables over the years and currently running a woodbridge 25. I have a ninja 2vac 400psi machine as a back up or where I cant get the t/m to. I have to say that it feels like the ninja is even working properly compared to the t/m. Very poor vacuum and waterflow but still wouldn't be without one whatever make. If I could get comparable power from an electric tm, I would buy one tomorrow!
likely because your series ninja has 200 " lift and about 100 cfm ... not a great setup id say especially for +25ft ...
id say you'd notice a good difference changing to a triple vac ( 140" lift and 300 cfm ) or the 6.6 machines ( which shouldn't have quite as much , but the owners say they work well ::)
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A truckmount will offer better extraction and a constant supply of hot water compared to most portables, however there are a few things we need to consider here:
1 We are now in a recession and the bottom line is most customers could not give a monkeys what gear you use as long as the job gets done and the price is right.
2 You better have a good supply of work if you have a TM because it can be a huge investment compared to a porty.
3 The general running costs will be higher in most cases, TM's need to be permanently fixed inside the vehicle (unless its a prowler) so a larger van is required
4 A porty can be removed from the vehicle and can be taken to very remote areas where as TM's cant.
Dont get me wrong if i had the work and the money i would have a TM, but would never get rid of my Jag
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If you have enough work for a TM then why would you have to worry about overheads. If you cant afford a TM its because you dont get enough business. Simple as that
You dont hear TM operators moan about costs, only former TM operators who then go on to bamboozle everyone on how you dont actually need a TM but then go and try make their portable setups as close to a TM setup as possible.
Sounds like sour grapes.
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In my earlier days of starting c.cleaning , i used as most starters portables, raptor prob been the best , certainly for good heat, .....i still have by the way , i have seen the same arguments put over by porty owners of which i admit was one of them untill i had an opportunity to purchase a t/m and did so, well rest assured all of you porty owners are losing out , I am not saying finacialy in paticular although that does come into the equasion , but the simple facts of making life so much easier and speedier.
i have 2 jobs to attend a little later today , both last minute calls for a spill of food, and one custy kid walked with mud on shoe after i had just cleaned them last week, i know for a fact i will be around 5 minutes at the latter, £55 .... the other may take a little longer !! again £55
the hassle of the porty for this work lmo not worth it :)
simple facts . Wake up and smell the coffee
geoff
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It goes round and round in circles this argument.
I reckon most porty users would love a TM, but don't take my word for it, I'll do a poll...
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My Scorpion isnt bad at all in terms of suction, actually still love it.
But each job's setup and breakdown was 40 minutes. That to me is a waste of time.
I target 3 to 4 jobs per day. Half the day would be gone effing around and not doing what makes the money, which is wanding.
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My Scorpion isnt bad at all in terms of suction, actually still love it.
But each job's setup and breakdown was 40 minutes. That to me is a waste of time.
I target 3 to 4 jobs per day. Half the day would be gone effing around and not doing what makes the money, which is wanding.
I have to say, in wet weather like today, I really wish I had a TM.
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Makes no difference. Finished my second and final job this morning and a caller came through for a job. He said I could do it today.
It was just down the road but I booked it in for Wednesday.
Far too miserable. TV day
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In my humble opinion... From the 90 or so previous replies, only Ian Harper has spoken any sense. Everyone else is just comparing willy sizes! Even those well endowed can be poope in bed (im not talking from experience!)
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Colin
As I understand it you have a very powerful top of the range prtable set up.
From your other posts you have suggested Oven Clleaning often keeps you going.
Indicating you are not working solidly at Carpet Cleaning and sweating your ......... off so you walk like John Wayne day in day out
Why would you want 10grands of depreciation a year plus serving costs plus an increase in your fuel bill which will just continue to rise.
May bee its you desire to concentrate on Carpet Cleaning in that case go for it, but if you like variety sick the way you are and work at expanding your fleet
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The extra capacity your TM gives you makes it a no brainer. It does cost more to buy and run but the thing almost sells itself if you have an ounce of marketing ability. Stick with a portable if you want to but how many people go back to a portable after a TM? A handful, if that.
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The story that tm operators are selling their units and go back to portables reminds me of the people who used to justify carrying on smoking because they knew someone who lived to be 96 and smoked 20 a day. ::)
Yes I am sure some people do go back to portables but they are in a tiny minority and I would guess they should never have gone truckmounted in the first place. Most of us have now owned multiple Tm's. Is it really beleivable that we made a big mistake and then did it again and again?
On another point we talk about TM's vs portables. This is way too general as not all portables are the same and not all TMs are either. There is a huge difference between a single vac/100 psi porty and a triple vac/500 psi model. Likewise a 13 hp prowler and a 69 hp Titan. Would I swap a top end porty for a Prowler? Maybe but maybe not because the difference is small. Would I swap for a Titan/Thermalwave? YES because the difference is enormous. Even then you have to have the work for it, be able to afford to buy it etc.
Personally i hope that anyone who is working the Central London area continues to be persuaded to remain portable. Remember you can't use them in Cities ;)
Nigel
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Well said that man ;D
Top post, Nigel. ;)
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Personally i hope that anyone who is working the Central London area continues to be persuaded to remain portable. Remember you can't use them in Cities ;)
Nigel
Yes, but you and I both do. Fair enough, you have to be bloody minded with traffic regulations & imaginative with pipe layout but isn't that half the fun of this business
Simon
Nigel's post is excellent and does sum up this repetitive argument to a 'T'
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If your hose runs dont regularly exceed 50 feet, get yourself and triple vac. Onboard water tanks and Zeta heater.
You'll work just as quick as a TM operator.
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Where in central London don't your hose runs ever exceed 50', Warren?? ;)
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I work London. Just not Zone 1, dont know how anyone does it. Ball ache deluxe
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A variation from the mundane ;)
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If your hose runs dont regularly exceed 50 feet, get yourself and triple vac. Onboard water tanks and Zeta heater.
You'll work just as quick as a TM operator.
Warren,
I can't think of a single job I do where your statement would be true.
Nigel
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Colin
As I understand it you have a very powerful top of the range prtable set up.
From your other posts you have suggested Oven Clleaning often keeps you going.
Indicating you are not working solidly at Carpet Cleaning and sweating your ......... off so you walk like John Wayne day in day out
Why would you want 10grands of depreciation a year plus serving costs plus an increase in your fuel bill which will just continue to rise.
May bee its you desire to concentrate on Carpet Cleaning in that case go for it, but if you like variety sick the way you are and work at expanding your fleet
Some very valid points Ian, thank you...
I am only available to do 3 jobs at most a day being the house husband so to speak. I plan on letting the business build up nice and steady until I can put more time, effort and of course money into it.
I hope then to have someone do the oven cleaning side of the business.... We'll see how it goes I suppose... :)
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If your hose runs dont regularly exceed 50 feet, get yourself and triple vac. Onboard water tanks and Zeta heater.
You'll work just as quick as a TM operator.
Warren,
I can't think of a single job I do where your statement would be true.
Nigel
I run the Zeta from the van and always have the Jag at the door, I can't think of the last time I used over 50' of hose...
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Okay Nigel...Do you want your competitors negating your invested advantage or not ;)
TM's are outdated okay
-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If your hose runs dont regularly exceed 50 feet, get yourself and triple vac. Onboard water tanks and Zeta heater.
You'll work just as quick as a TM operator.
In other words tell me what you want what you really really want IT'S a TRUCKMOUNT.
Or is it just a PRETEND Truckmount ;D
Tony
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Colin.
Are they all Cornish Pixie House's most lounges I clean are over 25' long 8) 8)
Tony
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On a serious productivity note.
Ive noted the biggest time savers on converting from triple vac to TM apart from the obvious power is.
A: Hose Reel - MASSIVE time saver for me
B: Waste water disposal very quick
C: On board water, this sometimes can actually be a problem if you have scarce tap availability like I do but on the whole a big time saver.
Actual wanding I cant say blows my mind, maybe because Ive only got a Boxxer 318
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I work London. Just not Zone 1, dont know how anyone does it. Ball ache deluxe
It depends on which jobs in Central London you do and how you organise yourself.
Believe it or not there are plenty of properties in Zone 1 with parking. Alternatively clients are used to suspending parking bays to have services in their homes. Failing that you can order a resident bay permit online. Failing that I park illegally with emergency signs on and so far this year I have had one ticket. I make it quite clear to my clients that if I can't park the job won't be done and this seems to make spaces appear. Rather than it being ball ache I feel like I lead a charmed life swanning in to my reserved parking space.
In the past year I have used my Airflex Turbo twice and one of those was a commercial in Woking.
Any properties that can't be truck mounted I turn away or pass on to a fellow carpet cleaner. Thing is being a truck mounted operator in London is quite rare and it seems you can be a bit more picky about where you work and still have an overflowing diary.
Its all about knowing where and how you want to work and making it happen.
Nigel
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Colin.
Are they all Cornish Pixie House's most lounges I clean are over 25' long 8) 8)
Tony
Usually modern houses or Cornish Cottages.
I always carry a bag with an extra 50' of hose and I always keep the machine outside.
Are we meant to be impressed because you use longer hoses.... ??? How pathetic!!!!
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or is it just a PRETEND Truckmount ;D
Tony
No, its not a pretend TM, its just maximizing utility of a portable setup.
Well its what I would do anyway
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Lighten up Colin My little pixie ;D
Tony
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Colin
Is your oven cleaning unit installed in your van or is it removable? I am thinking of adding it as an add on but was wondering if it can be removed so it can be used outside without stinking the van out?
Any thoughts?
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The dip tank is on wheels and I keep it on the van at all times.
I just remove the Jag from the van, position the dip tank and crack on...
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Hmmm not sure its worth stinking the van out for the odd oven clean...hmmmm
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You can get dip tanks that are removable
Jim
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Porta-bile most definatly a better ;), why the hell would anyone need to be able to do a job quicker and hotter thats just madness, mind you lot less bad backs since started to use a TM. Happy Christmas to one and all no matter how you clean carpets.
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j347/revitaclean/IMG_8923.jpg)
p.s don't look at the picture
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Paul thats the biggest down draft fan ive ever seen ;D
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Bet you say that to all the girls.
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Hmmm not sure its worth stinking the van out for the odd oven clean...hmmmm
???
I've never had a smelly van due to cleaning ovens, the dip tank has a sealed lid and the only thing that emanates is steam, which smells like degreaser which is rather pleasant....
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3 TMs to clean a trampoline ;D
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3 TMs to clean a trampoline ;D
naaaa thats how paul and the crew get back over the fence.
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Guys
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most of that post makes no sense and is just your opinion which you are stating as though it was fact and trying to back up your 'facts' by referring to non provable quotes from Eric browns book .
nearly every point you make in my opinion is rubbish ( although I say.... in my opinion...... because in reality who is to say my opinion is more valid than yours)
to take just one sentence......
if more Porty owners put the facts on their sites then the customer would become more informed and prices would drop for them. porty owners have nothing to fear.
2 questions I can see why customers would want prices to drop but why would we want prices to drop?
secondly...... you are saying if porty owner put the fact on their websites that portables can clean just as well as T/ms then prices would drop.... but they would have nothing to fear,.. so you are making the assuption that the prices would fall only for T/M owners. Where does this assumption come from?
you have posted pure waffle although it is quite eloquently written it is still waffle
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I have to agree with Mike, it's very confused rambling Ian.
I think your in danger of over anilising and as a result over complicating and coming up with nonsense that could hinder your business. You need direction!
For the record plenty of portable users get the same prices or more as TM users as well as vice versa.
I met a guy at alltec who used a portable and charged more than me and his turnover was considerably higher than mine.
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Ive run both TM and Porty.
Currently run Porty with full time helper.
When quiet op does postcards etc,
If i was going to go back to the TM'S i would invest in a Prowler without a shadow of a doubt, but for now im happy.
Mark
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Mark,
A fulltime op, crikey, you could save an awful lot of that cost if you were running a TM as you woulkd get a lot more work done more quickly.
Simon
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Hi guys
Ian, rather than write loads of spin trying to justify the unjustifiable why don't you just buy a TM and join us, it is much easier to get a top job.
Happy new year.
Doug
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One thing Dr Eric Brown doesn't mention in his book is the marketing aspect of a TM v portable. The problem is that if people have a problem with a carpet cleaner it is usually someone with a portable, that's not being disrespectful to the many top guys using portables, just a focus on the fact that the shisters in this business use cheap portables which customers can't differentiate one from another. A TM system however looks the part and that alone builds confidence, so to avoid another diappointment go with the people with top of the range equipment. The marketing / sales power of a TM is incalculable, but is very significant and that added sales value is enought to pay for one.
It goes without saying that whatever the equipment when you come to doing the job its all down to operator skill and application.
Simon
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Ian, rather than write loads of spin trying to justify the unjustifiable why don't you just buy a TM and join us, it is much easier to get a top job.
Doug
Thats the thing Doug, Ian did have a TM (albeit a prowler). He couldnt get the prices because of bizar marketing that only he knows (he told his clients on his website video to 'barter' for cheaper prices if they have a TM - which he had!!).
Exactly, mad as a hatter. I wonder why he gave up on that idea and went back to a portable...hhmm let me think.
Mark
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No customer ever asked me about the equipment I use, 99% don't care about it. Usually 2 things important for them: end result and price. I beleive the end result is down to the operator, the price is all about ones sales skills. IMHO these skills are the most important factors. Everyone should use what suits their needs and in many situations it won't be a TM. It is not the machine what makes a business succeed or fail. You can starve to death with a shiny TM parked on your drive. No one will call you just because you have one. I think comparing the two is a bit like comparing a F1 car to a WRC. Horses for courses.
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it's not that people ask what equipment you use, though increasingly people do, it is what they see on your website and other advertising, TM's look the part and build credibility and make you look more professional.
Simon
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it's not that people ask what equipment you use, though increasingly people do, it is what they see on your website and other advertising, TM's look the part and build credibility and make you look more professional.
Simon
Simon, you choose to build your marketing around your TM and it works for you (only judged by your website). That is only one option. A good salesman will convince the average customer about the advantages of the portables in two minutes flat. You should realize it is you who sell the service and you put the things together to look professional. A twenty years old Ford rustbucket Transit with a same age leaking, smoking, rattling TM is still considered to be a TM, but I don't think it will make a good professional impression.
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First off, I'm speaking from a position of extreme ignorance! I run neither yet, although I'm toying with the idea of refurbishing a CTD 902 and going into business part time.
I would have thought that it's horses for courses.
How would a TM operator clean a fifth storey flat on a busy road? It somehow doesn't seem feasible.
And I'm sure that a porty operator would find it uneconomical to clean some very large buildings.
And there is probably a large amount of work out there where the only difference is in the results gained by the skill of the operator and the equipment used is really not important.
Isn't it really a case of segmenting the market? Decide which area of the market you want to serve and then serve it (i) to the best of your ability whilst (ii) maximising your profitability.
As Colin Day said, he knows a guy who runs a very simple porty set up and makes loads more money than he does.
A friend of mine who's a hypnotherapist always says: The best business doesn't go to the therapist who's best at therapy; it goes to the therapist who's best at marketing. I suspect that it might also be true for carpet cleaning.
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First off, I'm speaking from a position of extreme ignorance! I run neither yet, although I'm toying with the idea of refurbishing a CTD 902 and going into business part time.
I would have thought that it's horses for courses.
How would a TM operator clean a fifth storey flat on a busy road? It somehow doesn't seem feasible.
And I'm sure that a porty operator would find it uneconomical to clean some very large buildings.
And there is probably a large amount of work out there where the only difference is in the results gained by the skill of the operator and the equipment used is really not important.
Isn't it really a case of segmenting the market? Decide which area of the market you want to serve and then serve it (i) to the best of your ability whilst (ii) maximising your profitability.
As Colin Day said, he knows a guy who runs a very simple porty set up and makes loads more money than he does.
A friend of mine who's a hypnotherapist always says: The best business doesn't go to the therapist who's best at therapy; it goes to the therapist who's best at marketing. I suspect that it might also be true for carpet cleaning.
It can be done, but I believe the guy in question should be running a more powerful machine to help him do the job quicker, seeing as he already has a good customer base and could easily fit more work in.
My tie at the moment is being a stay at home dad as such, so I only have a limited time to market and actually carry out the work. Once the kids are old enough to walk home on their own and sort themselves out, I'll be going full swing at my business...
Once the work is coming in at a good pace, I probably will invest in a spanking new TM so I can then clump 5 days of work into 2-3 days of work, which will give me freedom to do more marketing so I can build up to a solid 5 days work.
At least, that's the plan..... :)
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I think if your busy get a TM. Otherwise a portable will do, but TM does not equal higher prices - that's up to the man. Also I don't think TM equals more work either again that's up to the man too, and don't look too an associatation to get you more work either - that's wishful thinking.
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Guys
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Ian,
With great respect you clearly don't know what you are talking about TM's.
I don't know any TM operators offer loads of extra services, indeed quite the opposite.
Your idea that cheap TM cleans is the way to open up the market is wrong as it assumes that TM operators charge more, most don't yet earn more money because of the extra speed and efficiency a TM gives you.
I'd stay away from TM's if I were you as you will never make money with one,
Simon
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My prices wouldn't change if I had a TM. Surely you'd be getting more money per hour as you would be working that much more efficiently....
For example, I did a job yesterday that took me just over and hour and a half. Half an hour it took me before I was pre-spraying. There was no suitable tap for the Zeta so it meant bucket filling.
I can see the potential benefits of a TM as I charged £80 for the job. So using the porty earned me £53 per hour where as the TM would have easily earned me £80 per hour... I just need a decent volume of work and I'd be ready for the TM ;).
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Try LM..............
NO buckets
NO messing with this ere water stuff
Quick cleaning
Quick drying
NO contest
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My prices wouldn't change if I had a TM. Surely you'd be getting more money per hour as you would be working that much more efficiently....
For example, I did a job yesterday that took me just over and hour and a half. Half an hour it took me before I was pre-spraying. There was no suitable tap for the Zeta so it meant bucket filling.
I can see the potential benefits of a TM as I charged £80 for the job. So using the porty earned me £53 per hour where as the TM would have easily earned me £80 per hour... I just need a decent volume of work and I'd be ready for the TM ;).
This is all going around and around in circles. ;D ;D
You would of charged the same, carried out the work quicker .. But your running costs are far more!! ;D ;D If we invested in TM we would have to increase costs no q.
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we invested in LM from porty and we increased our prices, and we have less running costs ( well none actually ;D )
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Try LM..............
NO buckets
NO messing with this ere water stuff
Quick cleaning
Quick drying
NO contest
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You'd have thought Richard B Fisher would use LM being an ex farmer and all that. He's got good experience of muck spreading.... ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D
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we invested in LM from porty and we increased our prices, and we have less running costs ( well none actually ;D )
Well Hector, just wondering how you would get on with some of the mingers I have to do. Do you turn some work away that's just too bad for LM?
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I have had to turn 2 jobs down in the last 12 months...
However I do some real mingers with LM and the customers are always happy when I leave.
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what this topic about????
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what this topic about????
Monkey Tennis... Stay with the programme will you!
;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D
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Billy has an alert set up for the word 'minger' ;D
Hector, I turn down about 10 jobs a year, usually encrusted Mr Whippy style dog turds that have been there some time.
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There is a very very expensive house in Winchester in the expensive part of Winchester that we had to walk away from....
Staircase that would look about right on the QE2 (no problem) at the top a landing and hall that if I looked through binoculars I may have seen the other end, however it stunk to high heaven..
"oh this is dog $h1t alley" said the owner, "we let the boys play here as though it was outside, sort it out will you?"
We did leave that one
Would not have done it with a porty either.....
However TM?? nah not a chance :P
;D ;D
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Try LM..............
NO buckets
NO messing with this ere water stuff
Quick cleaning
Quick drying
NO contest
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You'd have thought Richard B Fisher would use LM being an ex farmer and all that. He's got good experience of muck spreading.... ;D ;D ;D
i have all methods at my disposal.
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There is a very very expensive house in Winchester in the expensive part of Winchester that we had to walk away from....
Staircase that would look about right on the QE2 (no problem) at the top a landing and hall that if I looked through binoculars I may have seen the other end, however it stunk to high heaven..
"oh this is dog $h1t alley" said the owner, "we let the boys play here as though it was outside, sort it out will you?"
We did leave that one
Would not have done it with a porty either.....
However TM?? nah not a chance :P
;D ;D
When someone says 'sort it out will you' I hear that cash register sound in my head £££KERCHING!£££
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It was really horrible Wynne
no way with a rotary though
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I think the only way is to have several systems at your disposal, we need LM for some rugs that have ridiculously loose dye, also portables are handy for some jobs as well, at least once or twice a quarter we do get one of those jobs where it's portable only, but sorry lads a TM not a lifestyle, marketing gimmick or even a massive cost if you have the use or need for one , it's just a big HWE machine.
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Now can we discuss something easier like middle east peace
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If the TM business model works then why do TM Owners have to add other services?
I certainly don't consider anything I do to be "added" because it is an inclusive part of the range of services I provide to keep my customers' floors & soft furnishings in good condition.
The smart businessman recognises that his customers have more than just carpets & upholstery to clean and make money out of.
Some of us ENJOY doing things other than carpets & upholstery all day long. There's a lot more skill and knowledge involved in taking your service portfolio up to higher levels.
Imagine leaving the house at 9am to do a carpet clean for £90, then another one for £120, then one more for £70, then home for 2pm with £280 racked up for the day.
Now imagine if you cleaned some leather, rugs, tile & grout or curtains at the same time for a couple of those customers. Home a couple of hours later but without ANY additional travel expenses and probably with 50% or even 100% more money in the bank. No brainer really.
your prices are high and are keeping the market small.
Bullsh*t. Firstly, and I probably speak for the majority of TM owners here, my prices aren't any higher with a TM than with a portable. Secondly, the "market" is not being kept small by anyone's high prices, just as much as it won't be expanded (usefully) by anyone's low prices. This is the sort of industry where we CREATE our market by provoking interest and using our skills to sell the services at the prices we feel comfortable working at, whichever end of the scale that might be. Which ties in with the next point...
I agree that prospects like the idea of TM cleans but most put cost first.
I don't even sell the TM when quoting, barely even mention it except for access reasons. Most customers don't put cost first, they put themselves first, more specifically what they WANT which is a good job doing. If they're reassured they're getting a great job they pay the price. All down to sales skill.
If any carpet thinks that adding a TM will give them more work they are wrong. Just look at TM owners and how many other services they provide and you have the proof that it will not. if they where busy just cleaning carpets thay would not have the time to provide these services or would have other staff, which most don't.
Firstly I think the majority of TM owners DO mainly concentrate on carpet & upholstery. But more to the point, I don't think anyone has speculated on buying a TM because they are stupid enough to believe it will somehow create more work.
People buy a TM for one of 3 reasons in my opinion:
1) Their workload has got so high with a porty they can not cope, and do not want to employ anyone
2) They wish to reduce their working hours on carpet & upholstery to either improve their lifestyle or allow more time in their day for OTHER INCOME STREAMS
3) They just have to have "big boys toys" and don't really need a TM but just WANT one (in which case more fool them, but these type are in the minority)
I think you'll find more TM owners employ people than you think. In fact I can think of 10 or so off the top of my head just from recent posts on the TM forums
if you want a bigger market in the UK them cheap TM cleans are the way this will happen
Again, complete bullsh*t. Cheap groupon (or similar) cleans are the only real possibility of dragging any noticeable volume of new customers into the carpet cleaning market, who wouldn't otherwise use carpet cleaning services...... but do we really want this type of customer? They wouldn't be a normal customer in a normal market anyway so send them back to B&Q for another hire of a rug doctor. Real businessmen aren't interested in them
Cheap TM cleans are the same as cheap porty cleans so why bother? You're still flogging your ar*e off for slave wages.
Surely you're smart enough to figure out that you make much more profit by spending more time in fewer customers' houses, doing bigger jobs per visit.... which means...... a wider range of services!!!!!
The big issue is that most Tm owners feel that its all a dig at them its not.
I don't feel you're having a dig at TM owners. I feel sorry for you because you're misguided and foolish. I've never read one word of sense in anything you've ever posted on any forums.
Aside from making up lies to pass off as marketing, all you do is concentrate on price price price as if you think that's what customers only ever think about
If you aimed yourself in the right direction, at the right customers, you might see the light. If you want to scrabble around with the cheapo monkeys competing at cut throat prices for the worst customers in your locality that's up to you, in fact carry on that way because it leaves a little more room for someone with their head screwed on to make a living in your area :)
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And breathe ;D
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Great post Jim, sometimes i dont read long winded posts, but read all and agree with all
Andrew
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Last time I read that much it was a book by Tolstoy.
Shaun
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Last time I concentrated that long it was a film called toy story!
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Agree with Jim 100% 8)
I also think its safe to say that he is misguided and over analizes absolutely everything. He cant settle on a marketing message - instead he has many and really has no focus to remain consistent.
He's just as bad with his area that he works. He is a one man band but travels as far as from chelmsford in essex right up to cambridge, his working radius must be 60 miles at least - and travelling to do cheap work. Its a really bizar business model.
Just an observation.
Mark
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Well,
i must say i read every word of Jims post, agreed with every word and basicly said exactly what i was thinking , only Jim did manage to put it more eloquently than i would ;)
Insert Quote
Quote from: C.C. Salisbury (it is I...... Hector) on Yesterday at 06:40:02 pm
There is a very very expensive house in Winchester in the expensive part of Winchester that we had to walk away from....
Staircase that would look about right on the QE2 (no problem) at the top a landing and hall that if I looked through binoculars I may have seen the other end, however it stunk to high heaven..
"oh this is dog $h1t alley" said the owner, "we let the boys play here as though it was outside, sort it out will you?"
We did leave that one
Would not have done it with a porty either.....
However TM?? nah not a chance "
Obviously, never seen what heights and capabilities a t/mis capable off ;D
Geoff
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Last time I read that much it was a book by Tolstoy.
Shaun
yeah right shaun, don't you mean toy story ;D
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Obviously, never seen what heights and capabilities a t/mis capable off Grin
Geoff
Simon showed me his monster and let me hold his hose the other month :o :o :o :o :o :o
what I meant was that there was so much $h1t there that the TM would have to be taken apart and cleaned properly so would not be worth the time and effort.....
;D ;D ;D
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Jim
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Jim BIG BOY'S TOY'S lol ;D ;D ;D ;D.
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Jim & Mark
you are very rude. i will not reply as you have got personal.
ian
I actually thought Mark was describing Jim when I read "he over analizes absolutely everything"
;D ;D ;D
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Last time I read that much it was a book by Tolstoy.
Shaun
Spend Less, Save More by Bert Tolstoy? ;D ;D
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Last time I read that much it was a book by Tolstoy
He said he read it. He did not say anything about finishing it. :D
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Jim & Mark
you are very rude. i will not reply as you have got personal.
ian
I actually thought Mark was describing Jim when I read "he over analizes absolutely everything"
;D ;D ;D
Same here ;D ;D as he travels about the same distance :P ;D ;D
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Denis how did you know? Saying that you do have to have it in the first place (unlike poor me)
War and peace is a great book and it kept me warm as I was trying to read it in the public library.
Shaun
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Sorry you feel like that Ian. Sometimes the kid gloves come off when I take up an issue with someone.
I stand by everything I've said above.
Could it be that you simply don't have any response to my comments? ;)
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Jim
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Just so others know there is no relationship between low price and low profit. but there is between high overhead and high price
Ian,
On behalf of others - What the hell does that mean ???
Nigel
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nigel think ian doesn't know himself, i'll get me coat :o :o
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Low prices are fine if you KNOW you are making a profit, unfortunately I don't think many do until they have to pay tax or something expensive goes bang.
If you get it right though you can employ people to do the work. Most people however will want to stay a one man band and I think you are doing yourself a real disservice if you under value your work.
One man bands who are growing invariably want a more powerful machine so they can do even more work, they can also put their prices up. The opposite also applies of course, so if someone goes back to a portable from a TM that is in my mind a marketing FAIL. No disrespect to those who have done it, I know some have a helper instead, but that's just a different way to do more work.
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Ian, with "respects" you don't know what the hell MY customers think! Just because the list you bought contains ex-customers of a franchisee in the same network as me (I presume that's what you're inferring) doesn't mean they are the same type of customer, does it?!
The type of customer attracted by a business depends on many variables, probably the most influential being the type of marketing employed. Mine most certainly are not over-conscious about price so therefore if yours are, then we're not serving the same type of customers!
Maybe the guy went under because he was attracting the wrong sort of customer?!
Have to agree with Nigel, your last sentence makes no sense at all ???
Financially speaking, the only relationship that matters is turnover vs profit margin :)
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[quote author=ian harper link=topic=143393.msg1187187#msg1187187 date=
..........Just so others know there is no relationship between low price and low profit. but there is between high overhead and high price
[/quote]
Ouch! That really is a bizarre comment. Did you actually mean to post that??
Of course there are relationships between different things - they might not be the same but you can still relate them.
As I'm not the brightest - can you clarify what you actually meant, Ian?
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why oh why does everybody think a tm costs a fortune to buy and run .
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why oh why does everybody think a tm costs a fortune to buy and run .
The one I want (Brand New with 2 years warranty) is £17k....
I think £17k's a fortune and not to be parted with, willy nilly.... ;D
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why oh why does everybody think a tm costs a fortune to buy and run .
The one I want (Brand New with 2 years warranty) is £17k....
I think £17k's a fortune and not to be parted with, willy nilly.... ;D
yes buts thats new colin
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I wouldn't want second a hand TM though, there's always an element of risk taking of someone else's problems on. I CBA'd with that....
And I'll want a dual operator machine as I'll probably take someone on, but it's early days yet.... ;)
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A decent tm with the hoses , van all setup vat etc is 20k over 4 years until it is worth 2 k, this means that with financing costs it is £100 a week every week , which means £300 a week in EXTRA turnover would be needed to stay the same for me .
For others this would be different.
Top of the range porty set up would be 5 k , worth 1k after 4 years
Top of the range rotary system 2k , worth 500 after 4 years.
After 20 years , 3 marriages 2 houses bought , paid for and given away , 3 kids brought up , dozens of foreign holidays , flash cars and a nice lifestyle , ill stick with the rotary for now.
Once the shop is built and paid for and if I had another windfall then I would get another TM , but would not rely on it for the bulk of my income.
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[quote a ;) ;)uthor=jasonl link=topic=143393.msg1187533#msg1187533 date=1325333527]
A decent tm with the hoses , van all setup vat etc is 20k over 4 years until it is worth 2 k, [/quote]
if anyone has a £20k T/M thats 4 years old and they will sell it for £2k please call me straight away!!!!!
or perhaps Jasons figure are just waffle to help sell the point he is trying to make
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OK £8k AFTER 4 YEARS , I dont think everyone realises depreciation is one of the biggest costs in TM ownership .
Yes they are good machines , but for profit , LM all the way.
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any figures can be manipulated to make a point.
if i offered everyone who wants one a truck mount and thery only need to pay me a £1.50p for every hour they use it who would say no? because a £10k truckmount will last 7.5k hours so the initial investment in a T/M is only £1.50p an hour.
of course this is waffle but to is just as applicable to mention the lifetime cost of buying a truckmount as it is to bring depreciation into the discussion
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Colin 2nd Hand for me every time It's only like buying a car.
Jason are you on another planet don't know where you get your figures from.
Cheers Tony
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Plant/machinery depreciation is commonly written down at 25% per annum
On that basis, over 4 years, £20k would depreciate to £6,328.13 :)
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Hi guys
TM's do cost a lot more to buy and run but they make you a lot more money.
It all depends on where you want to be in the market.
LM can be a fantastic earner, the only times I have done four figures in a day has been LM. Unfortunately it's not as good on domestic and a lot more messing around.
Happy new year
Doug
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OK £8k AFTER 4 YEARS , I dont think everyone realises depreciation is one of the biggest costs in TM ownership .
Yes they are good machines , but for profit , LM all the way.
I think everyone has a different idea about money being well spent.
For instance Jason didn't you buy a new Range Rover (which I doubt created ANY income for you) only to lose tens of thousands on it when you sold it? You obviously thought it was worth it to you. You could have bought a Skoda, it would do the same job and cost the same as you lost in depreciation on your Chelsea tractor.
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I wouldn't want second a hand TM though, there's always an element of risk taking of someone else's problems on. I CBA'd with that....
If anyones got or knows of a 2nd hand TM for sale then I'd be interested, afterall 16 years as a mechanic has it's plus points with machinery.
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Colin 2nd Hand for me every time It's only like buying a car.
Jason are you on another planet don't know where you get your figures from.
Cheers Tony
I know what you're saying, but I wouldn't trust a TMer not to sell me a lemon.... ;D ;D ;D
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OK £8k AFTER 4 YEARS , I dont think everyone realises depreciation is one of the biggest costs in TM ownership .
Yes they are good machines , but for profit , LM all the way.
I think everyone has a different idea about money being well spent.
For instance Jason didn't you buy a new Range Rover (which I doubt created ANY income for you) only to lose tens of thousands on it when you sold it? You obviously thought it was worth it to you. You could have bought a Skoda, it would do the same job and cost the same as you lost in depreciation on your Chelsea tractor.
Funny you should say that , as I now drive a 15k Skoda Yeti !
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OK £8k AFTER 4 YEARS , I dont think everyone realises depreciation is one of the biggest costs in TM ownership .
Yes they are good machines , but for profit , LM all the way.
I think everyone has a different idea about money being well spent.
For instance Jason didn't you buy a new Range Rover (which I doubt created ANY income for you) only to lose tens of thousands on it when you sold it? You obviously thought it was worth it to you. You could have bought a Skoda, it would do the same job and cost the same as you lost in depreciation on your Chelsea tractor.
Funny you should say that , as I now drive a 15k Skoda Yeti !
15k eh! thats quite high mileage for a skoda, ;D
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Never thought I'd say this but I think Skoda make cracking cars. The shape of the Yeti probably makes it ideal as a back up vehicle if you needed to.
Happy New Year.
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It is nowhere near as good as the RR sport , but the build quality is up to the VW Audi group standard .
I would rather have a decent car than a TM though .
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TM one pass clean, simples ;D
My system cost new (everything including van) £40k
Bought second hand after 4 years with 1,200hrs for £15K
Still running perfectly after 8 years of service (2200hrs) and could sell easily for £5k
Some will say, It hardly gets used.... this is true, as a typical day due to it's top notch efficiency, it only run's for an hour or two, doing 2 or 3 jobs a day and uses £3 something per hour on diesel.
I also have to use LM, Porty ect...but my TM pulls rank on these methods every-time!!
I agree with Jim and Mike and I too have trouble understanding Ian's posts, surely the name of the game is to say," yes I can do that for you" (the customer) and charge enough to make a good profit out of each job regardless of how you do it.
Graeme
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I would rather have a decent car than a TM though .
;D
Shaun
PS does that Skoda have a big footprint?
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"I would rather have a decent car than a TM though"
I would like to see a skoda clean a lounge carpet as good as a TM.. ;D
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TM one pass clean, simples ;D
My system cost new (everything including van) £40k
Bought second hand after 4 years with 1,200hrs for £15K
Still running perfectly after 8 years of service (2200hrs) and could sell easily for £5k
Some will say, It hardly gets used.... this is true, as a typical day due to it's top notch efficiency, it only run's for an hour or two, doing 2 or 3 jobs a day and uses £3 something per hour on diesel.
I also have to use LM, Porty ect...but my TM pulls rank on these methods every-time!!
I agree with Jim and Mike and I too have trouble understanding Ian's posts, surely the name of the game is to say," yes I can do that for you" (the customer) and charge enough to make a good profit out of each job regardless of how you do it.
Graeme
Similar to what i got, for 20k i got a Mercedes Sprinter 06 with 23k miles on clock,
fully kitted out at Hydramaster by first owner, with a 470 Maxx turbo diesel, with only 62 hours on the clock, fully lined out, with astro turf, HM shelving, various chemicals, 1 wand with a green glide and a stair tool, and an un-used drimaster 2 which i sold to Billy.
Not ran it for a year yet, used scorpion once in that time, dont have access or parking problems, as there is always a way around it, even blocked roads off in quiet areas, and park on double yellows with sign up saying emegancy flood work !!!
Unbelievable power compared to a tripple vac, yes a porty can do same job eventually, but nowhere near the drying times or flushing capabillities.
With regular oil filter changes etc i hope to run it for 20 years, fuel wise i dont know what it costs, my farmer friend supplies me with red diesel as i need it and i clean al his cpts, suites etc as required, even for his staff and family houses, easier than forking out cash !!
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
Me to, so many extras to mention including; x4 fans, porty. DM1, RX20, Rotovac, wands & hoses, wet vac, Rotary, bonnets and pads, ladders, heaters, hose ramps, Gloria sprayers, Hydrafoce, water claw, shelving and chemicals, the list goes on and on...(a bit like me) Not to mention taking all the goodwill customers too... ;D
Got offered a "turn key" outfit in a transit van recently, a Blazer with all the bits you need to get going for about four grand, okay it was an 06 Tranny with 100k on the clock and the Blazer had been to the moon and back (fitted with a new engine recently) all one owner from new, the van had to be worth that alone.. ::)
Graeme