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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve kiff on November 22, 2011, 06:16:44 pm

Title: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 22, 2011, 06:16:44 pm
Hi guys,  newbie window cleaner in Northamptonshire.  Just wondered what you guys think .  I have had 5000 leaflets printed and went out canvassing today with my leaflets.  A combination of leaflet drops and door knocking for approx 3 hours and I got 3 customers. All 3 bed semis £8.  Is this good going? Or should I have hitting more? What do you think?
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Smudger on November 22, 2011, 06:30:39 pm
Well done !

i think thats a pretty good start esp. as you have never done it before.   how many people did you actually
speak to in those 3 hours ??

Darran
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on November 22, 2011, 06:34:55 pm
nice one ;)
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: John F on November 22, 2011, 06:45:20 pm
well done. takes guts to knock doors. thats the difference between those with good full rounds and those with rounds that take ages to get built i suppose.

Keep leafleting and knocking mate. respect.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Taylor & Taylor WC Services on November 22, 2011, 06:49:33 pm
I give myself a target of £100 extra usually takes me 3-4 hours on my own......But I never give up knocking until I hit £100. But if it's your first time your on the right track.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Pope vader on November 22, 2011, 07:20:41 pm
what you saying on the door?
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 22, 2011, 07:35:30 pm
what you saying on the door?
knock knock  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Pope vader on November 22, 2011, 07:38:07 pm
whos there
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on November 22, 2011, 08:03:32 pm
I give myself a target of £100 extra usually takes me 3-4 hours on my own......But I never give up knocking until I hit £100. But if it's your first time your on the right track.

IF YOU COULD DO THAT CONSISTANTLY YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF AS A CANVASSER £200 NEW WORK IN 8 HRS SOLD AT 3 X THE VALUE=£600 A DAY
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Darren Peters on November 22, 2011, 08:29:21 pm
The more you do it the more you will get your sales patter perfected. Make sure you know exactly what services you want to sell I.e what's included in your clean, glass, frames, doors, garage doors etc.

Also think what can you offer the customer that there not getting at the minute
I.e text day before, how to pay you, your tracibility. I wouldn't want someone cleaning my house if I wasnt sure who they are.

Just a few things to think about
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Scrimble on November 22, 2011, 09:14:21 pm
£8 per 3 bed semi is too cheap £10 minimum dont sell yourself short, well done though with the canvassing steve 3 down 297 more to go
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: roundbuilder on November 22, 2011, 09:21:55 pm
I give myself a target of £100 extra usually takes me 3-4 hours on my own......But I never give up knocking until I hit £100. But if it's your first time your on the right track.

as if on your own. come back down from cloud cookoo. you would be a verey rich man if this was true being a canvasser.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 22, 2011, 09:25:26 pm
Thanks for your feedback gentlemen.  Answer to some of your questions.  The 3 custys I actually got were people I spoke to.  I dressed smart.  Snickers work trousers, black boots.  I have had special window cleaning t shirts made so I look more professional.  

I knock on the door And get straight to the point!  Hello, do you need a window cleaner?  I'm looking to build my window cleaning round in the area.   Hard work as I know most people don't want you there , however I know there just must be work out there.  Windys in my area can't be cleaning every single house, lol.

My target is 200 custys!  I have 3 and it's my first day.  I have been practicing on my house windows, my neighbours windows and my mums windows.  I think I'm pretty good at it . Windows look awesome.  

I have bought a professional 22 piece window cleaning kit on eBay. 50 micro fibre cloths.  Ladder , ladder clamps, t shirts printed! Business cards.  Advertising magnets for the doors on the car.  

All experienced windys?  Am I too ambitious looking for 200 custys?  Or is it possible?  
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: John F on November 22, 2011, 09:26:17 pm
hang on guys, the guy just went out and knocked and dropped leaflets. loads of people on here havent got the bottle to knock let alone anything else. the guy got 3 new jobs on his first day. lets keep it in perspective here. any result doing it his way is great. at least he is out there doing something!  :D

i remember the first time i went canvassing. one of te scariest things i ever did. we are born with 2 basic fears, falling over and loud noises. if there was a third fear it would be the fear of rejection. the fact that he has beaten that fear deserves praise enough. advice is always good, but a little motivation goes a lot further.

dont tell the bloke he is too cheap, he is getting results. let him go for it. full respect to anyone who does what he is doing.



Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: John F on November 22, 2011, 09:28:42 pm
if you want to know how to stick more than 200 customers into your round within 3 months mate. ask bluefrog (member on here) he did it. so have a few others.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Pope vader on November 22, 2011, 09:36:57 pm
it is simple,  knock every night,  clean day after   then knock that night and then clean the day after,  do this for 3 months and you will be fine
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: windiewasher on November 22, 2011, 09:51:20 pm
hang on guys, the guy just went out and knocked and dropped leaflets. loads of people on here havent got the bottle to knock let alone anything else. the guy got 3 new jobs on his first day. lets keep it in perspective here. any result doing it his way is great. at least he is out there doing something!  :D

i remember the first time i went canvassing. one of te scariest things i ever did. we are born with 2 basic fears, falling over and loud noises. if there was a third fear it would be the fear of rejection. the fact that he has beaten that fear deserves praise enough. advice is always good, but a little motivation goes a lot further.

dont tell the bloke he is too cheap, he is getting results. let him go for it. full respect to anyone who does what he is doing.





how many custys you got on your round? :o
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: John F on November 22, 2011, 09:59:45 pm
enough to keep 2 of us busy for about 17 to 20 days work a month.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Johnny B on November 22, 2011, 10:52:56 pm
To the OP - Well done. Just shows there is work out there just waiting to be found. I have always found that door knocking is the best way, and going by your presentation, you will do really well.

Best wishes,
John   



Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Londoner on November 22, 2011, 11:06:18 pm
Yes, well done. You just got to keep banging on with it now. Winners never quit, quitters never win etc etc. Then one day you have all the customers you want. Its a can't fail thing if you keep at it.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 23, 2011, 12:02:57 am
I love this site, everyone is so positive.  Thanks guys.  I will keep everyone updated on my progress.   
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: alanwilson on November 23, 2011, 01:10:00 am
steve Kiff - think of it this way mate.

Today you gave yourself a yearly payrise of £288

well done.

Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: dazmond on November 23, 2011, 07:24:07 am
yep canvassing is the only way of building a round quickly especially if you havent much money as you havent got a choice! ;D ;D

ive never had a problem with canvassing.then again im good with people in general.when i started in the early 90s i was out every weekend for 6 months door knocking.some days are good.other days youll get nothing!!

even now ill canvass either side of a new job in a different area.although i find myself just leafleting them and having a word with the new customer if im busy that day.

im in a comfortable position regarding work and i tend to let the customers come to me through word of mouth and recommendation as usually they turn into good solid ones.

good luck steve you sound like you have the right attitude and motivation.


all the best


dazmond
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Richy essex on November 23, 2011, 09:22:46 am
all good advice steve but i agree with the cheap bit dont price too cheap just to get the work you will regret it people say it all the time on here and i have a few that are far to low myself depends hw desperate you are for the work but it
does come m8
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: northstar161 on November 23, 2011, 12:37:11 pm
Good effort with the canvassing mate - especially this time of the year. You tend to pick up a lot of the dross that other window cleaners don't want at first but that's what happens when you start.

I started in June and the high point with the customers was about 90. 11 have flaked and a couple more will be have to be dropped if they give me another another 'leave it this time'.

My min charge was £14.00 for a 2 bed terrace and that includes the doors front and back - but I'm fortunate enought to be in a well-heeled area (with massive victorian windows!).

My main challenges so far have been getting a decent speed - still slow. Also; I should have charged 50-100% more for every first clean. This would have sorted the wheat from the chaff. I got a decent logo'd leaflet printed up - let me know if you want to see a copy.

All the best.

Olly
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Cliff perkins on November 23, 2011, 08:01:11 pm
I dont charge anymore for 1st cleans,as long as they want me back again.well done with the knocking i can only do it for a couple of hours cuz i get ped of with all the doors slamming in my face lol.but sounds like your doing well,plenty of times ive been out and not got anything at all,if id say anything keep at it you willmget there ive been doing it a yaer now and i recon another year and i wil be where i wanna be.
All the best of luck.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Danny Guest on November 23, 2011, 09:30:40 pm
Well done
Keep practicing the sale banter! its taken me 2 years and im now taking on average 10 customers per night on as customers and i hardly lose any. Ive been out tonight and got 9 new customers but i did lose 30 mins in traffic so i fell short of my target but by only 1. I had 38 last week. Its a game of numbers. It will be harder now getting going because youll need more energy and motivation then when your going you need to keep the momentum up.

Good luck
Danny
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on November 24, 2011, 12:59:47 am
5000 leaflets loads of
door knocking ????
them leaflets say 80 quid ?
yr own time knocking
AND you got 3!!!
that'll pay the bills m8
going to say this again
knock every night from 4.30pm to 7.30pm
every day in every street you want to clean
till youve spoke to every resident explain your
expanding your round from 3 to 4 customers
then repeat till you av the remaining 397 !!!!! thats how easy it is !!!!!!!
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on November 24, 2011, 01:14:28 am
in other words steve if you knocked 400
houses n they all said yes to a £10.00
4 wkly clean yeah you would be full
nice n steady 20 houses a day @£10= £200
which =£1k a week x 52
income £52k a yr simples  ;D
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: dazmond on November 24, 2011, 05:05:11 am
you been drinking again gav?yeh sounds so simple!never works out that way over the course of the year though.take off tax,insurances,fuel,equipment etc.bad weather days,holidays,sickness or injury and your left with a lot lower amount!!

its still better than working for someone else though!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 24, 2011, 10:18:40 pm
Gav,  I kinda like you, you come across as a bot of a comedian and I'm sitting here having a chuckle to myself!

400 houses and they all said yes! Lol, how nice would that be?  To be honest in no real rush really.  I have a full time job as a SDM for an industrial cleaning company, however I have had enough working long hours andining someone else pocket!  I need my own success story and I'm gonna make it happen.

I had 5000 leaflets printed up for £28 quid ! 500 business cards for £20 quid!  All my equipment including ladders , roof rack etc, another £200 quid!  I have been leaflet dropping before work and after work.  I now have 12 custys on my books that I'm very happy about.  All window cleaning to take place on Saturday & Sunday so I can hopefully be seen by others.  Target is 200 custys by may next year, just to be realistic. If I get more then happy dayz.  As soon as I have the 200 custys on the books I'll be investing in a WFP and transit connect me thinks. 

12 custys ain't gonna pay the bills but I tell you something I'm on a mission to reach 200!  I'm definitely going for it!  Only 1 person I know has tried putting me off windy cleaning by saying eveything he can to put me off!  I recon hes just doing it because he can't do it himself!

Wish me luck gentlemen I'm on a mission to succeed !   
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Johnny B on November 24, 2011, 11:29:43 pm
Steve,

There are plenty of desponds who will tell you that it can't be done, and that there are too many in this game as it is. Don't let anyone convince you that it can't be done. It can. It just takes determination, desire and a positive attitude. Go for it and win!  :)

John

 
     
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: colley614 on November 25, 2011, 06:22:20 am
If people tell me it's easy, I loose interest. If people tell me it can't be done then I get motivated.

If setting up and running a business was easy then everybody would be doing it
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Londoner on November 25, 2011, 07:15:05 am
Its not easy but its definite that you will succeed if you knock on enough doors. You just have to keep at it. Sure they will not all work out but thats part of the process. Theres always another road, and another, and another........

Thats one of the great things about this job, can't fail
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Pure Shine on November 25, 2011, 09:30:56 pm
 i not a great fan of canvasing but i just got a guy down from essex called tom he got me 200  month so far in 8 hours of course i have to pay but it works for me good luck and stick with it its a great job pure freedom and no agro
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: sean84 on November 25, 2011, 10:07:55 pm
Fair play, reading all this is giving me the inspiration as I will be canvassing soon for a new year start!
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on November 26, 2011, 03:01:28 am
you been drinking again gav?yeh sounds so simple!never works out that way over the course of the year though.take off tax,insurances,fuel,equipment etc.bad weather days,holidays,sickness or injury and your left with a lot lower amount!!

its still better than working for someone else though!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
dazmond  in reply yes its that simple
i know he will encounter problems along
the way
deont we all but a roud or 100+ houses a week
which is easily comfortable gives a gud income simples
all you need is a bit of cashflow !!!!! ::) ::)
GRANTED IT TAKES TIME
but done right it will work
i dont care who's toes i stand on
its business not a personal thing
n my kids have a funny habit of wanting feeding end of  ;)
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 26, 2011, 06:33:27 am
Gav,  I kinda like you, you come across as a bot of a comedian and I'm sitting here having a chuckle to myself!

400 houses and they all said yes! Lol, how nice would that be?  To be honest in no real rush really.  I have a full time job as a SDM for an industrial cleaning company, however I have had enough working long hours andining someone else pocket!  I need my own success story and I'm gonna make it happen.

I had 5000 leaflets printed up for £28 quid ! 500 business cards for £20 quid!  All my equipment including ladders , roof rack etc, another £200 quid!  I have been leaflet dropping before work and after work.  I now have 12 custys on my books that I'm very happy about.  All window cleaning to take place on Saturday & Sunday so I can hopefully be seen by others.  Target is 200 custys by may next year, just to be realistic. If I get more then happy dayz.  As soon as I have the 200 custys on the books I'll be investing in a WFP and transit connect me thinks.  

12 custys ain't gonna pay the bills but I tell you something I'm on a mission to reach 200!  I'm definitely going for it!  Only 1 person I know has tried putting me off windy cleaning by saying eveything he can to put me off!  I recon hes just doing it because he can't do it himself!

Wish me luck gentlemen I'm on a mission to succeed !  

You're definitely heading in the right direction.  Most of us went through this period unless we bought work in.  Unemployment during the early 90s recession was my big motivator.  Just after I started canvassing I got lucky.  I landed a self-employed "job" going away one week per month driving one of those ad wagons.  Got that through word of mouth.  I built my window cleaning work around that for the first six months or so.  I also had promise of a bit of work from an ad company who I used to work for - though that never materialised.  Consequently, my business was registered as window cleaning/driving/advertising and marketing.  It's still registered like that twenty years on though it's been window cleaning only for many years.  I just never bothered changing it.  I did have an idea about selling stuff on ebay which would have fallen within that broad framework but I never got it off the ground.
Regarding registering your business.  I think you are supposed to register with HMRC within 90 days of starting or face a £100 fine from them.  Also, as you are working full time elsewhere, you are meant to pay tax from the first £1 that you earn once your liability is calculated.  You would be well advised to get public liability insurance too if you haven't already done so.  Some do their own books but getting an accountant to deal with this is helpful for many.  If you're stuck, HMRC run free courses on this and although they don't like doing it, I think they have a legal obligation to help with this.  Keep all your receipts from day one as you may need them if you are going to offset a portion of the vehicle against tax/NI.  Now maybe you see why people are telling you to charge more.  It's all very well cleaning a few windows and getting a bit of "petrol money" for it.  It's a very different animal to run it as a registered small business.
The above may sound excessive for where you are now but insurance and books are things you ought to have from the off.  It may well be that due to the front loading cost of these items, your business doesn't show any paper profit for a few months - by the time you claim for vehicle expenses, telephone/mobile (both probably proportioned), some of the capital value of the vehicle that you've brought into the business, a proportion of the interest of any outstanding loan on it, public liability insurance (a basic one can be had for maybe £100), a little bit of your electricity bill indoors (running computer/washing work clothes and cloths in washing machine - and drying them).
When I first went self-employed, I asked a few self-employed people for advice - including a city stockbroker who was formerly an inland revenue employee.  The theme that kept coming up was to put away a portion of my turnover for the eventual tax bill and to get an accountant.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2011, 08:01:11 am
Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot :)
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up! :)
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 26, 2011, 01:46:43 pm
Thank you so much for the advice gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Learning everyday about this trade and to be honest everyone is right about the price to charge.

I have been out this morning window cleaning. Started off at 08:30 , home at 13:00. I cleaned 4 three bed semis at £8 and because they hadn't been cleaned in a while they were fillthy. The PVC was the hardest part of the 4 houses and took so much longer to clean than the windows.  I know I only done 4 but remember I'm new to the trade.

I think I messed up with the £8 price tag and feel after cleaning the 4 today that £10 is a much better price to charge than £8 .

Couple of questions:

1. Are people happy to pay £10 for a 3 bed semi clean?
2. I used 16 micro fibre clothes on 4 houses! Is this normal?
3. Do experienced windys concentrate on all the PVC as well as the windows?  This took the most amount of time.
4.  How long roughly does it take to get quick? I think im pretty slow at the moment. Really concentrating on doing a great job.

Cheers. Fellas.   Steve
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Johnny B on November 26, 2011, 03:34:21 pm
Hi Steve,

1. £10 is reasonable to charge for a 3 bed semi. £8 is a bit on the low side, but as you are new don't worry too much. When you gain more experience and confidence you will get a feel for what your time is worth, and adjust your prices accordingly.

2. What size cloths do you use? I use large or jumbo sized cloths (approx 24 inch). As I am also building my new window cleaning business up following a relocation, many of my jobs are at the first clean stage. I use one damp cloth to wipe the frames, and if the windows are really bad, I wipe them with the same cloth. I then mop and squeegee the windows, then detail with a clean cloth. I change the damp cloth when it is too dirty to be effective, and use the 'detailing' cloth in its place, and introduce a fresh cloth for detailing. Hope this makes sense. I use maybe 4 cloths a day using this method.   

3. I always ensure the frames are cleaned first. Yes it takes longer the first time, but you reap the benefits of this on subsequent cleans, when a quick wipe is all that is necessary.

4. I have been in this game for nearly 15 years, and am by most peoples' standards, still very slow, and because I am extremely thorough (OCDish) I am not likely to get any quicker!. This doesn't worry me though, as I can still make a reasonable living just doing 8-10 houses a day. Most people get noticeably quicker within a few months, and I am sure you will be one of those, especially once you get into repeat cleans.

Well done Steve. You've made a good start. Keep it going.

John
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 26, 2011, 04:22:50 pm
Thanks John for your answers to my questions.
I too am quite OCD ish and the windows I'm doing I'm making sure they are perfect, lol.

My micro fibre clothes are 16x 16 and as I have just started I think I'm using more than i need, however I'm hopeing to cut that usage down some what.

It's hard work using a ladder , however I'm really enjoying it and taking pride in my work. I think I will start charging £10 per 3 bed semi as my standard is extremely high.

Mote canvassing tomorrow , hopefully get at least 4 more on the books then back to work Monday morning earning money for someone else.

Glad I started a window cleaning business , very excited right now.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Johnny B on November 26, 2011, 04:48:04 pm
Steve,

Hope the canvassing goes well tomorrow. It's a numbers game as you no doubt know. The more you knock, the more you will find. It is a fact that there are more good customers out there than good window cleaners. When your standards are high, you can be sure that your appreciative customers will refer you to their family, friends and neighbours (if the latter don't see you first!) When this starts to happen, you will gain all the more satisfaction in knowing that your hard work is being recognized and will be rewarded accordingly.

John

 
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: red star on November 26, 2011, 05:05:01 pm
Try sticking a leaflet or 2 around your area churches cafes librarys etc usually pick up a few a month from this
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: red star on November 26, 2011, 05:12:12 pm
Also costa coffee now have a local business pin board in there shops costs nout stick a few flyers in there
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on November 26, 2011, 05:27:55 pm
Gav,  I kinda like you, you come across as a bot of a comedian and I'm sitting here having a chuckle to myself!

400 houses and they all said yes! Lol, how nice would that be?  To be honest in no real rush really.  I have a full time job as a SDM for an industrial cleaning company, however I have had enough working long hours andining someone else pocket!  I need my own success story and I'm gonna make it happen.

I had 5000 leaflets printed up for £28 quid  ! 500 business cards for £20 quid!  All my equipment including ladders , roof rack etc, another £200 quid!  I have been leaflet dropping before work and after work.  I now have 12 custys on my books that I'm very happy about.  All window cleaning to take place on Saturday & Sunday so I can hopefully be seen by others.  Target is 200 custys by may next year, just to be realistic. If I get more then happy dayz.  As soon as I have the 200 custys on the books I'll be investing in a WFP and transit connect me thinks. 

12 custys ain't gonna pay the bills but I tell you something I'm on a mission to reach 200!  I'm definitely going for it!  Only 1 person I know has tried putting me off windy cleaning by saying eveything he can to put me off!  I recon hes just doing it because he can't do it himself!

Wish me luck gentlemen I'm on a mission to succeed !   

hi steve where did you get these done?
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Steve kiff on November 26, 2011, 07:35:51 pm
Look on eBay.  They even designed my leaflets for me 

User Id   Andyprinter1

Phone number  01902448736

5000 A5   £28 + 6 quid delivery
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on November 26, 2011, 07:42:21 pm
thanks steve
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: colley614 on November 27, 2011, 12:47:32 am
Hi Steve,

Have you got a limited amount of time to go canvassing? I would aim at getting 10 custards on your books tomorrow if I were you! Seens as your not depending on the income why don't you tell everyone that if they get you another regular job that you will do their house for free after the third clean of the house they got you?

Everyone likes a freebie don't they?
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 27, 2011, 07:31:09 am
Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot :)
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up! :)


Good post Helen.  Personally, I have found that I can get away with putting rather less than 25% away for tax/NI.  The tax and NI (total of about 31% + that £30ish per quarter) doesn't start clocking up until after I've turned a profit of c.£6k.  Also, those business expenses eat into the turnover a bit more heavily than most because rent and water is pushing £2k a year.  Then there is the diesel, vehicle repairs, poles, filters, fittings etc.  However, for someone who has already earned their tax free allowance elsewhere, 25% of turnover might not be far off.  It would probably give them a bit of holiday spending money too so long as it wasn't too expensive.
Additionally, if self-discipline is an issue, you can also set up a bank transfer to HMRC and send some money over the internet periodically.  Even if this were say, just 10% of turnover, it would still drastically reduce the outstanding liability come Jan/Jul 31.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Helen on November 27, 2011, 09:43:19 am
Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot :)
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up! :)


Good post Helen.  Personally, I have found that I can get away with putting rather less than 25% away for tax/NI.  The tax and NI (total of about 31% + that £30ish per quarter) doesn't start clocking up until after I've turned a profit of c.£6k.  Also, those business expenses eat into the turnover a bit more heavily than most because rent and water is pushing £2k a year.  Then there is the diesel, vehicle repairs, poles, filters, fittings etc.  However, for someone who has already earned their tax free allowance elsewhere, 25% of turnover might not be far off.  It would probably give them a bit of holiday spending money too so long as it wasn't too expensive.
Additionally, if self-discipline is an issue, you can also set up a bank transfer to HMRC and send some money over the internet periodically.  Even if this were say, just 10% of turnover, it would still drastically reduce the outstanding liability come Jan/Jul 31.

As you've said the 25% builds up and gives you money to fall back on if you should be ill, can't work whatever.
For newbies as well, that 1.5times tax payment at the end of the first year trading catches so many out! Not a good start to a business to be behind with the taxman early on!
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Ian101 on November 27, 2011, 10:38:23 am
Thank you so much for the advice gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Learning everyday about this trade and to be honest everyone is right about the price to charge.

I have been out this morning window cleaning. Started off at 08:30 , home at 13:00. I cleaned 4 three bed semis at £8 and because they hadn't been cleaned in a while they were fillthy. The PVC was the hardest part of the 4 houses and took so much longer to clean than the windows.  I know I only done 4 but remember I'm new to the trade.

I think I messed up with the £8 price tag and feel after cleaning the 4 today that £10 is a much better price to charge than £8 .

Couple of questions:

1. Are people happy to pay £10 for a 3 bed semi clean?
2. I used 16 micro fibre clothes on 4 houses! Is this normal?
3. Do experienced windys concentrate on all the PVC as well as the windows?  This took the most amount of time.
4.  How long roughly does it take to get quick? I think im pretty slow at the moment. Really concentrating on doing a great job.

Cheers. Fellas.   Steve

Answered in no particular order

http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/wcw-microfibre-single.html

these are the BEST cloths to go for great for detailing make sure you buy the larger size 80x60 and to save getting thru em to quick just use normal microfibres for the sills .. ASDA £2 ish for a roll of 4 or 5 ... turned Gav onto these last year so he will also tell you how good they are ... pricey yes but the best tools normally are .. had mine nearly 2 years and still going strong ... JOHN FARREL if your reading this u left 1 in my van last week  ;) washed it 4u and will keep it safe for you


MIN PRICE ... ALWAYS keep a min price your prepared to work for .. I started up with £8 min then like you within a very short time realised it was too low so upped it to £10 however now on £12 but my book is full .... however still use common sense EG if do a house at £10 and next door ask then do them the same assuming same number of windows as they will already know what next door is paying - I can put them both up in March at same time  ;)

PVC as a trad windie ... in other words the frames ... when I was trad I did the frames and sills on the 1st clean then sills every visit as takes seconds and frames prob every 3rd clean as once done they dont need doing every time.

Minging 1st cleans ... the forum you will realise fall into 2 camps on this, those that charge double on 1st clean and those that dont ... some see it as part of the job and IF a regular job then dont charge double or third on 1st clean however theres some on her who have been bitten by the "leave em this time brigade" when it comes to the second clean so to cover themselves they will charge the extra ... me personally I have only charged a double once on a block of flats that hadnt been done in 10 years and only ever been caught once ... was my early days and was a rented property and they were moving.

Time to clean a house ... this post takes me back to my early posts  :'( ... my 1st cleans would take me over an hour for a little 2 bed 8 windowed house ... Gav predicted that I would one day be cleaning 3 or 4 an hour as trad .... he was right you will speed up ... now WFP so even quicker theses 1st houses that took me an hour now boshed out in under 10 minutes inc setting up time.

OTHER ADVICE

Spend half day cleaning and half day canvassing / leaflet dropping .. get a customer in morning clean em there and then or in afternoon.

Seriously think about going WFP as soon as you can ... make more money and safer


The evolution of a window cleaning business

Canvass like mad ... like your life depended on it  :o
Get customers
Clean em

Repeat above ..... a lot .................... or cheat like me and buy a few rounds

after 6 months you will have a resonable round maybe 150ish customers

now the important bit .... are you listening ?  ;) ... this is critical to you having a nice well priced round filled with reliable customers

DROP THE DROSS

in case you missed it the first time DROP THE DROSS

slow payers / non payers/ dog poo filled gardens/ messers / leave it this time/

if you peservere with any of the above cos its easier than canvassing then you will notEVER EVER EVER have a great round and whilst spending time with these cretins / divs/ ham shankers / nobs / etc you will be missing the good ones.


BTW if your based in North Wales or Chester area then ignore all of the above as I own those areas  ;D
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 27, 2011, 10:48:56 am
Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot :)
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up! :)


Good post Helen.  Personally, I have found that I can get away with putting rather less than 25% away for tax/NI.  The tax and NI (total of about 31% + that £30ish per quarter) doesn't start clocking up until after I've turned a profit of c.£6k.  Also, those business expenses eat into the turnover a bit more heavily than most because rent and water is pushing £2k a year.  Then there is the diesel, vehicle repairs, poles, filters, fittings etc.  However, for someone who has already earned their tax free allowance elsewhere, 25% of turnover might not be far off.  It would probably give them a bit of holiday spending money too so long as it wasn't too expensive.
Additionally, if self-discipline is an issue, you can also set up a bank transfer to HMRC and send some money over the internet periodically.  Even if this were say, just 10% of turnover, it would still drastically reduce the outstanding liability come Jan/Jul 31.

As you've said the 25% builds up and gives you money to fall back on if you should be ill, can't work whatever.
For newbies as well, that 1.5times tax payment at the end of the first year trading catches so many out! Not a good start to a business to be behind with the taxman early on!

Indeed, I had forgotten about that 1.5x liability at the end of year one.  It wasn't done that way when I started.  Very discouraging for new start-ups at a time when maybe new starts should be encouraged more.  In fact, when I started, there was even the possibility of getting a reduction in the first three years by averaging it out if your profits were very erratic.
I should have remembered the 1.5x really as I've been caught out myself when I've had a year that had vastly increased profits over the previous one.
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Ian101 on November 27, 2011, 10:53:51 am
How does this 1.5 tax payment work ?

Im aware of it just not sure when its payable

Cant ask accountant as sacked him for overcharging  :o

EG Ive just completed 1st year 2010 to 2011 and so happened my year end is April so have to Jan to file online and pay tax - when do I pay the 1.5 ??
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: northstar161 on November 27, 2011, 06:29:22 pm
I would try to charge more for the first clean if poss.

You are doing a good job and you are well worth it.

If you charged more for the first clean and the customer then changes his frequency from a six week cycle to a 12 week cycle (charged at about 40% more)  you won't have any difficulty in explaining this.

If they decide to change the frequency from a six to a 12 AFTER the first clean that you have done for, say £15 every six weeks, then you will experience some difficulty in justifying the 40% increase in price (due to six weeks more dirt and bird stuff on frames and panes and sills).

Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Dave66 on November 27, 2011, 08:08:02 pm
Thank you so much for the advice gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Learning everyday about this trade and to be honest everyone is right about the price to charge.

I have been out this morning window cleaning. Started off at 08:30 , home at 13:00. I cleaned 4 three bed semis at £8 and because they hadn't been cleaned in a while they were fillthy. The PVC was the hardest part of the 4 houses and took so much longer to clean than the windows.  I know I only done 4 but remember I'm new to the trade.

I think I messed up with the £8 price tag and feel after cleaning the 4 today that £10 is a much better price to charge than £8 .

Couple of questions:

1. Are people happy to pay £10 for a 3 bed semi clean?
2. I used 16 micro fibre clothes on 4 houses! Is this normal?
3. Do experienced windys concentrate on all the PVC as well as the windows?  This took the most amount of time.
4.  How long roughly does it take to get quick? I think im pretty slow at the moment. Really concentrating on doing a great job.

Cheers. Fellas.   Steve

Answered in no particular order

http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/wcw-microfibre-single.html

these are the BEST cloths to go for great for detailing make sure you buy the larger size 80x60 and to save getting thru em to quick just use normal microfibres for the sills .. ASDA £2 ish for a roll of 4 or 5 ... turned Gav onto these last year so he will also tell you how good they are ... pricey yes but the best tools normally are .. had mine nearly 2 years and still going strong ... JOHN FARREL if your reading this u left 1 in my van last week  ;) washed it 4u and will keep it safe for you


MIN PRICE ... ALWAYS keep a min price your prepared to work for .. I started up with £8 min then like you within a very short time realised it was too low so upped it to £10 however now on £12 but my book is full .... however still use common sense EG if do a house at £10 and next door ask then do them the same assuming same number of windows as they will already know what next door is paying - I can put them both up in March at same time  ;)

PVC as a trad windie ... in other words the frames ... when I was trad I did the frames and sills on the 1st clean then sills every visit as takes seconds and frames prob every 3rd clean as once done they dont need doing every time.

Minging 1st cleans ... the forum you will realise fall into 2 camps on this, those that charge double on 1st clean and those that dont ... some see it as part of the job and IF a regular job then dont charge double or third on 1st clean however theres some on her who have been bitten by the "leave em this time brigade" when it comes to the second clean so to cover themselves they will charge the extra ... me personally I have only charged a double once on a block of flats that hadnt been done in 10 years and only ever been caught once ... was my early days and was a rented property and they were moving.

Time to clean a house ... this post takes me back to my early posts  :'( ... my 1st cleans would take me over an hour for a little 2 bed 8 windowed house ... Gav predicted that I would one day be cleaning 3 or 4 an hour as trad .... he was right you will speed up ... now WFP so even quicker theses 1st houses that took me an hour now boshed out in under 10 minutes inc setting up time.

OTHER ADVICE

Spend half day cleaning and half day canvassing / leaflet dropping .. get a customer in morning clean em there and then or in afternoon.

Seriously think about going WFP as soon as you can ... make more money and safer


The evolution of a window cleaning business

Canvass like mad ... like your life depended on it  :o
Get customers
Clean em

Repeat above ..... a lot .................... or cheat like me and buy a few rounds

after 6 months you will have a resonable round maybe 150ish customers

now the important bit .... are you listening ?  ;) ... this is critical to you having a nice well priced round filled with reliable customers

DROP THE DROSS

in case you missed it the first time DROP THE DROSS

slow payers / non payers/ dog poo filled gardens/ messers / leave it this time/

if you peservere with any of the above cos its easier than canvassing then you will notEVER EVER EVER have a great round and whilst spending time with these cretins / divs/ ham shankers / nobs / etc you will be missing the good ones.


BTW if your based in North Wales or Chester area then ignore all of the above as I own those areas  ;D
would you drop a bad payer in the middle of a good paying rd? i'd be reluctant to on the chance they find another cleaner then he starts tapping on doors n such..
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Helen on November 27, 2011, 09:44:12 pm
How does this 1.5 tax payment work ?

Im aware of it just not sure when its payable

Cant ask accountant as sacked him for overcharging  :o

EG Ive just completed 1st year 2010 to 2011 and so happened my year end is April so have to Jan to file online and pay tax - when do I pay the 1.5 ??

Long time since I've thought about this, so forgive me if I get it wrong, but I am sure someone will put me right....

Also, get a new accountant, your figures for April 2010 to April 2011 should be done by now (if not before) so that you know what you have to pay! Yes you have to file your return by Jan 31st but that is the last date for payment as well.

April 2010 to April 2011. You will have to pay all tax owing for that financial year by 31st Jan 2012 plus 50% based on that figure up front, which goes towards April 2011 to April 2012 payments.
This 50% becomes your first installment and the second installment (same amount) is due end of July 2012.

April 2011 to April 2012, you will have made 2 up front payments (as above) towards this and by Jan 31st 2013 you will have to pay any deficit against your figures and also 50% towards the next year....

and so on and so on
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Ian101 on November 27, 2011, 11:20:58 pm
Thanks Helen read and understood .. Eventually
Title: Re: First day canvassing, 3 custys!
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 28, 2011, 06:51:08 am
I would try to charge more for the first clean if poss.

You are doing a good job and you are well worth it.

If you charged more for the first clean and the customer then changes his frequency from a six week cycle to a 12 week cycle (charged at about 40% more)  you won't have any difficulty in explaining this.

If they decide to change the frequency from a six to a 12 AFTER the first clean that you have done for, say £15 every six weeks, then you will experience some difficulty in justifying the 40% increase in price (due to six weeks more dirt and bird stuff on frames and panes and sills).



IMO you don't have to justify the increase on cleaning grounds alone.  You can justify it by saying that it's a service that you prefer not to supply and it disrupts your scheduling.  As it's a service that you prefer not to supply, you wish to be better paid for it.  I've said this and I've swung it.  I get away with it because if someone wants to reduce the service like that, it's not such a big deal to lose it anyway - unless it's already a very good job.  Supermarkets can do "buy two - get third one free" which could mean that they overcharge on individual purchases,  yell.com charge a load extra for putting a link in the ad - even though it's a minute's work, so I can charge 50% more for something that takes 5% longer as it disrupts my schedule.