Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pure Glass on November 15, 2011, 09:23:44 pm
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Just a few questions, if you wouldn't mind:
1/is it worth the money you've spent in your opinion?
2/how much does it cost to run?
3/have you got the 9kw or 5kw?
Thanks
Steve
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1. Well worth it
2. 9kw
3. using it all day 8 hours costs about 4-5 quid at a push .
There are cheaper options like the l5 gas heater but theres no looking back for me with my 9kw heater, its even better than the ionic thermopure imo. The guys in grimsby are really helpful too. I reckommend the 9kw heater with a fitted frost stat. ;D
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Thanks James
Do you use it all day, every day, or just the winter?
I've installed a fogwash, but having serious problems with insurance
I've got the money to do it-just a bit nervous and want to make sure I make the right decision
Ta, Steve
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do it mate, had ours 15month...works well, it did cost an extra 3k on top of our van mount but soooooo worth it..
it uses about a fiver a day in diesel if its on all day, but you can re-circle the water round back into the tank so just a few hours on in the morn heats the 500lt tank up and thats prob only £2-3 8)
we use all yr round as the brush just glides on the glass so much better when hot and makes the job easier so that cant be a bad thing ;)
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Brilliant bit of kit
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I've also got the 9kw PF heater, Yes it's a cracking piece of kit but hard as hell on your batteries, I've got two leisure batteries powering the pumps and also a decent split charge relay, but still have to charge the batteries up on trickle charge on a daily basis if using the heater for a prolonged time.
Interesting to here from others who have this set up and how their batteries perform with the 9kw PF set up?
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Batteries have never missed a beat. Faultless and charge fine off the van battery
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Steve
Have you got the two man 9kw version? if so I think something may not be quite how it should be with my system :o I have run this past Andrew at PF a number of times and he recons that a split charge relay will not put back in what the 9KW heater takes out, therefore daily charging of batteries is a must :( wish they had mentioned this in their adverts
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i have the pf 2man 9kw set up normally have to trickle charge for a few hrs a couple times a wk but when using the system on smaller jobs where the van is close by i sometimes leave it running
great system great service battries a bit of a down side but still glad i got it
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Strange one. Never had an issue with the batteries.
It's the 9kw
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can you get different size leisure batteries if so what size are your steve also i didnt think you used hot all the time steve cause i think its the burner that hit the batteries hard
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not all the time as there is no need but now coming into the winter it will go on everyday. if i have any issues i'll post it up
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Were your batteries supplied by pure freedom, or did you supply your own?
Steve
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All fitted by pure freedom
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i have the pf 2man 9kw set up normally have to trickle charge for a few hrs a couple times a wk but when using the system on smaller jobs where the van is close by i sometimes leave it running
great system great service battries a bit of a down side but still glad i got it
thats what we do, leave it running with crook lock on... batts last about half hour :(
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Thanks Steve
Paying my deposit in the morning, looking forward to having it fitted
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do it mate, had ours 15month...works well, it did cost an extra 3k on top of our van mount but soooooo worth it..
it uses about a fiver a day in diesel if its on all day, but you can re-circle the water round back into the tank so just a few hours on in the morn heats the 500lt tank up and thats prob only £2-3 8)
we use all yr round as the brush just glides on the glass so much better when hot and makes the job easier so that cant be a bad thing ;)
I have the same system,do you re-circle the water using only 1 or both pumps?
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both, pump2 has a valve that allows water to re-cirle and pump1 we just have some hose from the outlet back into the tank....warms up twice as quick obviosly 8)
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both, pump2 has a valve that allows water to re-cirle and pump1 we just have some hose from the outlet back into the tank....warms up twice as quick obviosly 8)
So pump 2 will have a valve around about the side door area with enough radiator hose to stretch back and into the lid of the tank yes??and you run pump 1 out to the external van port and back into the tank using more radiator hose?? ???Is this how you do it Dave?
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yes thats right...you have a valve tap on yours? is it the van mount from freedom?
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This is something I really want. Currently I'm using a fogwash an I also have a L5 as back up. As good as they are I just don't think you'll beat the PF hot water system. Think ill save up for one next year
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Aye av got the valve as well dave and yes it's from PF,this method of heating the water will suit me a lot better as I have added another valve before pumps so I can fill backpacks by gravity,so will now be able to get hot through the gravity fed hose if that makes any sense ::)I take it it's the radiator hose you are running from ext port back to tank,are you able to shut back doors when re-circling the water?
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Brill bit of kit , however you will prob need to charge the batteries up every nite and replace them about every 9 months, I have 2 100amp batteries that i charge up both of them everyday. However it is still the best hot system out their imo :)
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Aye av got the valve as well dave and yes it's from PF,this method of heating the water will suit me a lot better as I have added another valve before pumps so I can fill backpacks by gravity,so will now be able to get hot through the gravity fed hose if that makes any sense ::)I take it it's the radiator hose you are running from ext port back to tank,are you able to shut back doors when re-circling the water?
well it needs a good slam ;D better when the hose gets warm as its more plyable...
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Good stuff Dave,will buy some hose at the weekend and give it a go,thanks for the help ;)
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let us no howit goes ;)
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Wow a whole post about hot water systems without anybody slagging them off ;D , if you can afford it get it,i have heat wave (more or less the same) great piece of kit money well spent .
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do these diesel heaters need a flue?
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mine has a exhaust pipe that goes underneath the van,you cant see it
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do they need to cut a hole in the van? i only ask as i have a van contract hire and not sure where i stand if we start cutting holes
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Yeah they do
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do they need to cut a hole in the van? i only ask as i have a van contract hire and not sure where i stand if we start cutting holes
I have one of my vans on contract hire, i have holes in the floor, ie for the webasto exhaust ect and for the fixings for the tank that go through to the chassis. I have been told to rubber bung the holes and then fit a ply floor before it gets collected.
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any one bought one of these heaters and fitted it them selves, or had it fitted locally ?
if so - how difficult is it
thanks...
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fitted my pure freedom 5k heater my self. not that hard to do about 4-5 hours worst bit was getting a mouth full off fuel trying to get the filter full :P
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did you go off your fuel tank ?
how's the battery life ?
thanks...
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put a 20lt jerry tank in the van. battery last about 6 hours 110amps not good just carry a second battery and charge every night.
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Do we have to use leisure batteries or would normal car batteries be better and last longer cause this is the only down side to the pf system
What about Ionics users do you have the same problem with batteries?
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I run two batteries but cross them over. They are leisure batteries and 85ah, they will last around 3 days with the autocharger, but normally take them out and bench charge every 2 days. I also run the pumps off the same batteries.
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With a 9kw heater you cant expect the batteries to last long, just a shame PF dont offer more advise on this whist being fitted. I've had two 135 amp dual purpose marine batteries fitted today and I have a split charge relay, but will still need to charge batteries up on a regular basis
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So the heater was fitted today....I'll post how I get on.
Andrew Bramley was spot on and I asked with reference to battery life. He explained the process and need to charge both batteries (linked) regularly. I bought a charger from him whilst there. So all I'll do is connect the charge via the mains each time I fill up and connect the booster pump.
Steve
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So the heater was fitted today....I'll post how I get on.
Andrew Bramley was spot on and I asked with reference to battery life. He explained the process and need to charge both batteries (linked) regularly. I bought a charger from him whilst there. So all I'll do is connect the charge via the mains each time I fill up and connect the booster pump.
Steve
Yeah Steve let us know how you get on, hopefully we'll have a snow frost free winter this year :) guess you'll be using heated water regardless of the temperature just so you can test out and play with your new toy ;)
What temp have you got your frost protection setting to come on at? originally mine was about 4 deg but I have lowered it to 0 deg now as the anti freeze in the system is a -20 deg mixture and it dont get that cold down here :)
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What a piece of kit!! Used it for the last 2 days-awesome.
Saved me water, but definatley brings up seals and frames up much cleaner
Simon-my frost setting is set at 2 degrees, as when the temperatures dropping, I wan tit to kick in before it gets to 0 degrees.
Cost me a lot of my hard earned, but the investment has been made, ready for a big big spring push on conny roofs and soffit/fascia jobs
Once again, the boys at PF were superb and really helpful.
Steve
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How can it possibly bring up frames any cleaner with warm water?frames and windows always gleaming with cold! ;D.
They do look good the pure freedom heaters though! ;D ;D
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its true they get the green algi off and ground in grime 8)
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its true they get the green algi off and ground in grime 8)
with ease i'd like to add :)
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its like when you wash dishes in hot water compared to cold
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do it mate, had ours 15month...works well, it did cost an extra 3k on top of our van mount but soooooo worth it..
it uses about a fiver a day in diesel if its on all day, but you can re-circle the water round back into the tank so just a few hours on in the morn heats the 500lt tank up and thats prob only £2-3 8)
we use all yr round as the brush just glides on the glass so much better when hot and makes the job easier so that cant be a bad thing ;)
I tried this method this week,problem I have is when using both the pumps at the same time the temperature is dropping,started off at 60 degrees and dropped to below 30,any ideas???
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do it mate, had ours 15month...works well, it did cost an extra 3k on top of our van mount but soooooo worth it..
it uses about a fiver a day in diesel if its on all day, but you can re-circle the water round back into the tank so just a few hours on in the morn heats the 500lt tank up and thats prob only £2-3 8)
we use all yr round as the brush just glides on the glass so much better when hot and makes the job easier so that cant be a bad thing ;)
I tried this method this week,problem I have is when using both the pumps at the same time the temperature is dropping,started off at 60 degrees and dropped to below 30,any ideas???
Cancel that,just left it running for a while and temp started picking up again,filled my 650 litre tank about half full and the temp of the water inside the tank is 30 degrees after circling for nearly 2 hours.
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just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.
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just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.
I have a blower added to mine, blows hot air into the back of the van, and also have a pipe through the bulkhead into cab.
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Yes it's still important to remove hose reels poles etc and put them somewhere above freezing like a garage etc and then make sure all your pipe work in the van is lagged as best as possible, also best to lagg Di vessels and use an electric green house heater or similar for over night, weekend etc.
I have the PF 9KW heater and the frost stat only really protects the heater on my system as the pumps draw the cold water out of the tank and through the Di vessels it then passes through the heater and the hot water is returned to the tank, because the tank holds 650 L of cold water I have never found that the returned water is hot enough to make much difference to the water temperature in the tank.
Also worth remembering that the frost stat kicking in during the night will put quite a drain on your batteries if your planning on working the next day with the heater you will need to make sure those batteries are fully charged up.
With an anti freeze mix of -20 deg in the PF heater I shouldn't think that there is much to worry about with regards to frost damage to the heat exchanger, but I guess this depends on which part of the UK you live and how cold each winter becomes.
Well done for pointing this out though Trevor
:)
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just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.
I have a blower added to mine, blows hot air into the back of the van, and also have a pipe through the bulkhead into cab.
guess you keep the batteries on trickle charge whilst your vans parked up then?
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Yes, have an auto charger, but always bench charge them every 3 days. Have a spare set that i swop over when the others are taken out.
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Yes it's still important to remove hose reels poles etc and put them somewhere above freezing like a garage etc and then make sure all your pipe work in the van is lagged as best as possible, also best to lagg Di vessels and use an electric green house heater or similar for over night, weekend etc.
I have the PF 9KW heater and the frost stat only really protects the heater on my system as the pumps draw the cold water out of the tank and through the Di vessels it then passes through the heater and the hot water is returned to the tank, because the tank holds 650 L of cold water I have never found that the returned water is hot enough to make much difference to the water temperature in the tank.
Also worth remembering that the frost stat kicking in during the night will put quite a drain on your batteries if your planning on working the next day with the heater you will need to make sure those batteries are fully charged up.
With an anti freeze mix of -20 deg in the PF heater I shouldn't think that there is much to worry about with regards to frost damage to the heat exchanger, but I guess this depends on which part of the UK you live and how cold each winter becomes.
Well done for pointing this out though Trevor
:)
Hi Simon
Good point re the battery use. It is not an exact science as to how much power the Frost stat will use. Please see a detailed answer below I hope it helps.
Firstly it is worth saying we are not experts on how the Webasto works as what we do with the control is provide a way to switch it on and off together with monitoring the temperature. So I am going to break down the advice as we can be pretty sure about how the pump and control will behave in most circumstances.
Please be aware there are some factors beyond our control which may effect individual systems differently to others for example. The ambient temperature of the air/water the quality of insulation/lagging also the efficiency of the pump and current water temperature will effect the draw the Webasto takes.
When the control is switched off at the end of the day the display goes blank and the control enters a sleep mode. This is because the processor is still operating and running occasional tests to check for operation. In sleep mode the control is drawing 50 milliamps or less.
In normal operation even running flat out the pump would draw between 3 - 5 amps. During frost protect mode the pump is turning at a minimum level perhaps 5 - 10 psi and would draw about 0.5 amps. creating a flow means the water has to be heated less and reduces the chance of freezing through the rest of the system other than the tank.
So during the frost protect cycle current is less than 1 amp
Now the Webasto is a bit more difficult for us to predict so I have sourced some information on the Thermo 90 S heater looking at points 3.1 Technical data. The data says while running on boost, so the heater is producing hot water for cleaning the draw is up to 7.5amps. Once heated the Webasto will draw between 3 and 6.9 amps to maintain operation.
It is worth pointing out we are only taking the water Temperature up to approx 4C and generating a water flow for a maximum of 13 minutes. This means the Webasto is likely to draw between 5 and 7 amps on start up this draw is for a couple of seconds then current draw will fall back nearer to the 3 amp range. So In practice the high draw may occur during initial start up of the Pump and Webasto but quickly fall.
Initial current draw might reach 8amps from the battery for a very short period then fall back to 3.5amp or less dependant on the factors mentioned above.
The pre set timing cycle in frost protect is based on the experience of a number of cleaners and speaking to some of the other WFP suppliers it was felt that less would not warm the water sufficiently, longer would be over kill and heat the water more than was needed. It is a difficult balance to strike heat the water to little and you have the webasto constantly powering up. To high and the principle of hot water freezing quicker than cold applies.
I am always happy to provide information on our Controls
Cheers
Ian
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just a thought a few have mentioned the frost stat on the purefreedom system and that they just put this on and no worries of freezing, i have the system and personally dont think this will work so i would always put an heater in van aswell, the reason i say this is that when the frost stat activates it turns on the heater and circulates the water from the tank through the pumps and heater and then back to the tank this will stop the tank and pumps from freezing but i cant see how it will stop the prefilters and the RO from freezing as these will not have the warm water flowing through them, i think this could be rectified by having the recirculated water fed through the prefilters and RO before tank but not sure if there would be any issues by doing this, what are other peoples thoughts on this.
Trevor You are right the frost stat will only provide protection where there is a water flow, so fitting a return through your RO would be one answer. I have provided a detailed answer to Simons question regard to battery use over night while the frost stat is running.
Cheers
Ian