Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richywilts on November 15, 2011, 06:05:24 pm

Title: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 15, 2011, 06:05:24 pm
im considering building a traditional round 3-4 weeks frequency at lower prices as i find it hard to continually maintain the waterfed pole equipment and lose lots of days when equipment breaks.

i think it will improve cash flow too using lower prices

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: Ian101 on November 15, 2011, 06:13:29 pm

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers

generally they dont give a stuff how they're cleaned so long as they're clean .....

not a daft idea neither as some houses are defo quicker trad

however very rare I loose time when summit breaks as carry spares plus hardly had any problems recently - guess its different with staff though
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: Johnny B on November 15, 2011, 06:27:23 pm
I am currently building my round from scratch (100% trad).

I believe that where I am located (Ireland), people assume I am trad anyway, because many customers I have picked up have assumed that they would be supplying water for me to use!

I had looked into the idea of going WFP, but decided that it would cause me too may headaches, one of which would be the outlay, and maintenance costs. I like to keep things simple!

One serious question though. Is there any reason why you couldn't charge the same for trad as you would with WFP?

Best wishes,
John
 
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: dazmond on November 15, 2011, 06:49:25 pm
Another bright idea richy?I do think your a bit mad! ;D ;D

You d be committing business suicide to build a trad round imo.what if one if your lads falls off and badly injures himself or worse?also you wouldnt be able to clean the awkward windows.

Wfp is far safer,easier and quicker and does a better job.I think you need a check up from the neck up!

Regards

Dazmond
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 15, 2011, 07:04:28 pm
i ask me self why do we have to keep repairing stuff.


me wonders what some of you guys do with your gear
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: g.brookes on November 15, 2011, 07:05:23 pm
re: jonny b, i always sell wfp as cleaning the frames and the sills and standard.  whereas when i was trad, i rarely did the frames, so i charge a higher price cos im doing more work in the customers eyes
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: peter holley on November 15, 2011, 07:18:10 pm
i ask me self why do we have to keep repairing stuff.


me wonders what some of you guys do with your gear

I was thinking along the same lines ..... in the 6 yrs I have been water fed , I have lost only 2 days due to equipment probs..... tank, pole pump , filter..... hiose and reel/..... I have a back up for equipmnent on everyrthing......surely  its a must and just common sense.....

taffy
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 15, 2011, 07:21:10 pm
i ask me self why do we have to keep repairing stuff.


me wonders what some of you guys do with your gear

I was thinking along the same lines ..... in the 6 yrs I have been water fed , I have lost only 2 days due to equipment probs..... tank, pole pump , filter..... hiose and reel/..... I have a back up for equipmnent on everyrthing......surely  its a must and just common sense.....

taffy
never lost a day
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: peter holley on November 15, 2011, 07:22:44 pm
i ask me self why do we have to keep repairing stuff.


me wonders what some of you guys do with your gear

I was thinking along the same lines ..... in the 6 yrs I have been water fed , I have lost only 2 days due to equipment probs..... tank, pole pump , filter..... hiose and reel/..... I have a back up for equipmnent on everyrthing......surely  its a must and just common sense.....

taffy
never lost a day

tight wod bbbbaaaaAAAHHHHHHH ;D
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: daniel worgan on November 15, 2011, 07:25:45 pm
im considering building a traditional round 3-4 weeks frequency at lower prices as i find it hard to continually maintain the waterfed pole equipment and lose lots of days when equipment breaks.

i think it will improve cash flow too using lower prices

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers

richy are you a snag short of a barbie mate?
You have more ideas than anyone i know....do you actually follow anything through?
By the way i think there will be a good opportunity in the future for trad cleaning....a bit of a niche market in the future...but certainly not at lower prices.
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on November 15, 2011, 07:36:08 pm
i ask me self why do we have to keep repairing stuff.


me wonders what some of you guys do with your gear


couldnt agree more. as far as breakdowns/downtime I had a pump go on me a couple of years ago but i bought it 2nd hand and i got 2 years out of it.
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: bobplum on November 15, 2011, 08:07:01 pm
you will be ok richy.........just take the parts you need from your new shop ;D
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 15, 2011, 08:10:53 pm
i dont think anyone understands how much i have had to replace i do not think its normal we have had so much trouble with pumps and ionic system and our static system, i just think it would be nice to have something to fall back on
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: bobby p on November 15, 2011, 08:18:40 pm
iv always wondered why the WFP  guys dont price low and squeeze out the trad guys ,as i read on here how much faster etc it is

i guess its these problems with the system messing it up?
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: windiewasher on November 15, 2011, 08:23:24 pm
im considering building a traditional round 3-4 weeks frequency at lower prices as i find it hard to continually maintain the waterfed pole equipment and lose lots of days when equipment breaks.

i think it will improve cash flow too using lower prices

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers

richy are you a snag short of a barbie mate?
You have more ideas than anyone i know....do you actually follow anything through?
By the way i think there will be a good opportunity in the future for trad cleaning....a bit of a niche market in the future...but certainly not at lower prices.

i agree with you daniel!
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: lee09 on November 15, 2011, 08:26:33 pm
Your right about the gear, those leaking connectors.
However, to build a trad round charging less but with more risk  ???
Just buy some spares
Lee
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: PURER CLEAN on November 15, 2011, 08:31:32 pm
i ask me self why do we have to keep repairing stuff.


me wonders what some of you guys do with your gear
thats cause i sold you a great pole m8  ;D
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 15, 2011, 08:32:05 pm
im considering building a traditional round 3-4 weeks frequency at lower prices as i find it hard to continually maintain the waterfed pole equipment and lose lots of days when equipment breaks.

i think it will improve cash flow too using lower prices

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers

richy are you a snag short of a barbie mate?
You have more ideas than anyone i know....do you actually follow anything through?
By the way i think there will be a good opportunity in the future for trad cleaning....a bit of a niche market in the future...but certainly not at lower prices.

i dont know why you think its such a crazy idea its building up my business with lower overheads and less stress and hitting areas i wouldnt usually canvass with wfp, i know i have many ideas but that is all they are really
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 15, 2011, 08:34:56 pm
im considering building a traditional round 3-4 weeks frequency at lower prices as i find it hard to continually maintain the waterfed pole equipment and lose lots of days when equipment breaks.

i think it will improve cash flow too using lower prices

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers

richy are you a snag short of a barbie mate?
You have more ideas than anyone i know....do you actually follow anything through?
By the way i think there will be a good opportunity in the future for trad cleaning....a bit of a niche market in the future...but certainly not at lower prices.

sorry mate i thought u were saying it was a daft idea iv just reread your comment bk
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: daniel worgan on November 15, 2011, 08:37:33 pm
im considering building a traditional round 3-4 weeks frequency at lower prices as i find it hard to continually maintain the waterfed pole equipment and lose lots of days when equipment breaks.

i think it will improve cash flow too using lower prices

did people find it easier or more difficuly building and finding traditional customer as opposed to wfp customers

Richy i dont think it's a crazy idea....i actually think it's a sound idea.
I was just taking the pee about the amount of ideas you come up with....sorry just my sense of humour.
As i said i reckon that marketing a trad round ...ie.the old fashioned way...will soon become a good sound way of building up a round,but i would defo not be lowering my prices to bring the business in,just base the whole business concept on you leave the windows dry and that will appeal to a lot of the older generation.
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: colley614 on November 15, 2011, 08:38:35 pm
I think you would be going backwards. You've worked so hard to build up a business using the poles.

In work I'm responsible for three systems and a 22 metre access platfrom aswell as six lads. From this I've learned that some systems are far more reliable than others. I'm not going to knock the two systems that we have problems with on a monthly basis but I would say that the purefreedom 650ltr system we have never lets us down. The other two seem very over complicated and its these overly developed parts that fail. If its basics that are failing and being damaged by your lads I would warn them that if the van is off the road due to neglect then they will be sent home unpaid and they will get billed for replacement parts and labour.
Some of the lads in our place don't care about the kit and others take pride in it. At the end of the day you've supplied them with kit to earn them a living, if they can't look after your kit then you can't supply them a living.
Theres loads of people out there who would love a job right now, I'm sure most of the problems your having can be ironed out.
 
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 15, 2011, 08:42:24 pm
yeah i see ya point iv targetted all the more affluent areas in my town and i see it as a cost effective way of bringing more money in without the major costs of buying new van and systems etc
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on November 15, 2011, 09:07:11 pm
I think you would be going backwards. You've worked so hard to build up a business using the poles.

In work I'm responsible for three systems and a 22 metre access platfrom aswell as six lads. From this I've learned that some systems are far more reliable than others. I'm not going to knock the two systems that we have problems with on a monthly basis but I would say that the purefreedom 650ltr system we have never lets us down. The other two seem very over complicated and its these overly  developed parts that fail. If its basics that are failing and being damaged by your lads I would warn them that if the van is off the road due to neglect then they will be sent home unpaid and they will get billed for replacement parts and labour.
Some of the lads in our place don't care about the kit and others take pride in it. At the end of the day you've supplied them with kit to earn them a living, if they can't look after your kit then you can't supply them a living.
Theres loads of people out there who would love a job right now, I'm sure most of the problems your having can be ironed out.
 

that will be the smoke and mirrors to justify the extra thousands they cost. good post btw
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: Johnny B on November 15, 2011, 09:20:23 pm
re: jonny b, i always sell wfp as cleaning the frames and the sills and standard.  whereas when i was trad, i rarely did the frames, so i charge a higher price cos im doing more work in the customers eyes

I am a perfectionist (OCDish), therefore I clean the frames every time. The reactions I get from happy customers who get this service as a matter of course, but who don't expect it is great, especially when it creates lots of new work via word of mouth recommendations.    :)

John   
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: colley614 on November 15, 2011, 09:30:05 pm
I think you would be going backwards. You've worked so hard to build up a business using the poles.

In work I'm responsible for three systems and a 22 metre access platfrom aswell as six lads. From this I've learned that some systems are far more reliable than others. I'm not going to knock the two systems that we have problems with on a monthly basis but I would say that the purefreedom 650ltr system we have never lets us down. The other two seem very over complicated and its these overly  developed parts that fail. If its basics that are failing and being damaged by your lads I would warn them that if the van is off the road due to neglect then they will be sent home unpaid and they will get billed for replacement parts and labour.
Some of the lads in our place don't care about the kit and others take pride in it. At the end of the day you've supplied them with kit to earn them a living, if they can't look after your kit then you can't supply them a living.
Theres loads of people out there who would love a job right now, I'm sure most of the problems your having can be ironed out.
 

that will be the smoke and mirrors to justify the extra thousands they cost. good post btw

Thats the point I'm trying to make bud. These top of the range type models have lots of parts that simply aren't needed. Tank, pump, controller and merlin and di are bullet proof. Yet I find all crazy bits and pieces spliced into these set ups and its these overly developed and overly priced parts that leave our vans sat parked up. 
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on November 15, 2011, 10:06:40 pm
or set bob on lol
then youll ava nother breakdown
a mental one  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: supernova77 on November 15, 2011, 11:24:26 pm
Quote
Thats the point I'm trying to make bud. These top of the range type models have lots of parts that simply aren't needed. Tank, pump, controller and merlin and di are bullet proof. Yet I find all crazy bits and pieces spliced into these set ups and its these overly developed and overly priced parts that leave our vans sat parked up.

Exactly! At the end of the day all you need is pure water at the brush on the end of a pole... It's not rocket science.

Andy
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: dazmond on November 16, 2011, 07:03:53 am
keep systems simple!tank,pumpbox or trolley,reel, pole.

pure freedom for systems and  gardiners clx for staff.dt flocked brush as they are  hard wearing.

you could get the lads to wfp tops only(saving water,less to produce in the evening,smaller tanks,vans =lower running costs etc)

provide them with good trad gear(unger imo)and get them a bottle holder each so they dont have to carry a bucket about with them so they can quickly switch from wfp to trad with ease on the job.

cheaper prices?granted i have some cheaper work but its very compact(150 houses all virtually right next to each other).i still earn ok out of them and they pay on time(most of em)which results in good cashflow but if its not compact, lower prices wouldnt be good for profit margins!

regards

dazmond
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: colley614 on November 16, 2011, 07:28:35 am
keep systems simple!tank,pumpbox or trolley,reel, pole.

pure freedom for systems and  gardiners clx for staff.dt flocked brush as they are  hard wearing.

you could get the lads to wfp tops only(saving water,less to produce in the evening,smaller tanks,vans =lower running costs etc)

provide them with good trad gear(unger imo)and get them a bottle holder each so they dont have to carry a bucket about with them so they can quickly switch from wfp to trad with ease on the job.

cheaper prices?granted i have some cheaper work but its very compact(150 houses all virtually right next to each other).i still earn ok out of them and they pay on time(most of em)which results in good cashflow but if its not compact, lower prices wouldnt be good for profit margins!

regards

dazmond

Thats what I can hitting the nail on the head. All the gear you mentioned is bang on, I've used all sorts of gear over the years and I can't fault unger or purefreedom. I've never tried a gardiners pole but since your bang on about the rest, I'm going on their website now to have a nose! ;D
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 16, 2011, 07:23:21 pm
hiya keith where r u based on your merseyside based??????
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: colley614 on November 16, 2011, 07:43:54 pm
I live in New Ferry. I'm working for a firm based by birkenhead docks.
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: TomCrowther on November 16, 2011, 08:36:25 pm
Hi Richy
Don't take this backward step mate. I believe that as "professional cleaners", we clean the windows appropriately. So the majority of domestics will be wfp, trad when inside or as dictated by flooring/frames etc. Same with commercial/industrial.
You have just had a bad run of luck and maybe one or two of your staff are either heavy handed or deliberately breaking things {for whatever reason}. Tell the guys they are resonsible for breakages. Wear and tear is expected but nothing more.
Get the right kit and maintain it properly. Get spare everything {pump, fittings, y peices, brush hose, inline filter and whatever else you may need}. Keep them in the van, so the most down time possible is ten minutes unless it's a van breakdown. Make someone responsible for this so you can just check the check list.
I work on my own but appreciate the added stress if you have employees.
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 16, 2011, 09:11:09 pm
I live in New Ferry. I'm working for a firm based by birkenhead docks.

oh only down the road then my ex n my son live in port sunlight nr the posh hotel after the bypass roundabout
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: colley614 on November 16, 2011, 09:18:30 pm
Cracking little village port sunlight. I used to live in the apartments over the road from them.
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: richywilts on November 17, 2011, 11:08:34 am
oh ya might know me mate ben steadman and kerry they live in them apartment that back onto the bypass drives an audi
Title: Re: thinkin of building a traditional round
Post by: colley614 on November 17, 2011, 08:24:28 pm
There the ones I used to live in. To be fair I haven't lived up there for years although I used to have the contratc to clean the landings down, I wanted the window cleaning but hallmark did them.