Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Eddie_Rhone on November 11, 2011, 08:23:19 pm
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Hi
Any twin vac machine owners, e.g Airflex pro, who use 2 inch hose, how far can you clean with this set up.
Regards
Eddie
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you loose 10% performance for every 50 foot of 2"
So with the airflex you start out with aprox ... 125 " lift and 180 cfm (parallel )
Its really up to you though what performance level is acceptable for you to work with .
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Hi
Any twin vac machine owners, e.g Airflex pro, who use 2 inch hose, how far can you clean with this set up.
Regards
Eddie
I have had the Jaguar for about 2 months and regularly use 100' of hose. There are some who use 150' and still say it's performance is unbeatable...
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Thanks for the replies
I should have said 1 Cord twin vac machine. I believe the jag uses 2 cords.
Thanks
Eddie
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What is the one cord twin vac machine ? must have no heater ...
in colins case he has 130" lift and 230 cfm .... so he can clean a little bit further :)
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For a long time twin vac or triple vac was all referring to the same motor (5.7" Lamb Ametek), but now we have these new higher performance vac motors like the jaguar uses. So whilst the jaguar is a "twin vac" machine it has a lot higher performance than, for example, a Ninja.
Oh I've bored myself. What was the question again?
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Funny ... the ninja has the jaguar specs but inverted in series spec ...
230" lift and cfm 120 or so .... but which is better ... hmm
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FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thanks for the replies
I should have said 1 Cord twin vac machine. I believe the jag uses 2 cords.
Thanks
Eddie
Didn't know such a thing existed..... ???
With regards to which machine is better, just wait and see how many second hand machines turn up!
The one that turns up for sale the most is the most unreliable one, Only time will tell.... ;)
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Funny ... the ninja has the jaguar specs but inverted in series spec ...
230" lift and cfm 120 or so .... but which is better ... hmm
Had the Ninja twin vac, now have the Airflex turbo three vac the difference is quite a lot in vacuum strength, the new twin vac storm is even better
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Funny ... the ninja has the jaguar specs but inverted in series spec ...
230" lift and cfm 120 or so .... but which is better ... hmm
Had the Ninja twin vac, now have the Airflex turbo three vac the difference is quite a lot in vacuum strength, the new twin vac storm is even better
The airflex turbo does not have more vacuum lift than the ninja ... but significantly more CFM (around 300)
So the ninja has 230" lift and 120 cfm ( lift may be an advantage in short hose runs )
The jaguar/storm has 130" lift and 230 cfm
The Airflex turbo has 120" lift and 300 cfm
Turbo is looking the best there to me :)
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Funny ... the ninja has the jaguar specs but inverted in series spec ...
230" lift and cfm 120 or so .... but which is better ... hmm
Had the Ninja twin vac, now have the Airflex turbo three vac the difference is quite a lot in vacuum strength, the new twin vac storm is even better
The airflex turbo does not have more vacuum lift than the ninja ... but significantly more CFM (around 300)
So the ninja has 230" lift and 120 cfm ( lift may be an advantage in short hose runs )
The jaguar/storm has 130" lift and 230 cfm
The Airflex turbo has 120" lift and 300 cfm
Turbo is looking the best there to me :)
Which machine is it that's always up for sale, second hand...?
Why is that???
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WTF ... :o
This guy is reselling Jaguars for £500 more..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solution-Jaguar-800psi-Twin-Vac-Carpet-Cleaning-Machine-/170659232585?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27bc153b49
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Does that price include vat ? If so then it's about right - the Jag is £2600 + vat on WOC site
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Colin i think you'll find a lot more Airflexs have been sold
than jaguars. Hence more available second hand.
If the Jaguars and Scorpions were so much better than
tha Airflexs then why the *&%K did servicemaster and i
believe safeclean buy them. They are not stupid, there
is very little to choose between similar specced machines,
be they 3 motor, 2 motor parallel or 2 motor series. i get so
p*&^ed off at the fan boy attitude that no machine is as good
as mine. Even some Jaguars have been back for faults so far,
it is inevitable with any new machine that some mistakes will be made
in design or equipment used. A thorough FMAA in design stage eliminates
many such things, but not all.
All the machines on the market will do the same job. Extra bells and whistles
just means some are quicker than others.
If the jaguar is so perfect why do you use the Zeta, from my point of view
heat is a neccesity so the jaguar has a glaring ommision there.
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Funny ... the ninja has the jaguar specs but inverted in series spec ...
230" lift and cfm 120 or so .... but which is better ... hmm
Had the Ninja twin vac, now have the Airflex turbo three vac the difference is quite a lot in vacuum strength, the new twin vac storm is even better
I dont know the specs between the Ninja and the Airflex turbo, but i have had both and i think the Airflex leaves carpets significantly dryer, and to me felt much more powerful i never had a glide with the Ninja but had to buy one with the Airflex as the wand just clamped itself to the carpet.
Another big plus in favour of the Airflex is the service from cleansmart compared to what you receive from Ashbys
The airflex turbo does not have more vacuum lift than the ninja ... but significantly more CFM (around 300)
So the ninja has 230" lift and 120 cfm ( lift may be an advantage in short hose runs )
The jaguar/storm has 130" lift and 230 cfm
The Airflex turbo has 120" lift and 300 cfm
Turbo is looking the best there to me :)
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Colin i think you'll find a lot more Airflexs have been sold
than jaguars. Hence more available second hand.
If the Jaguars and Scorpions were so much better than
tha Airflexs then why the *&%K did servicemaster and i
believe safeclean buy them. They are not stupid, there
is very little to choose between similar specced machines,
be they 3 motor, 2 motor parallel or 2 motor series. i get so
p*&^ed off at the fan boy attitude that no machine is as good
as mine. Even some Jaguars have been back for faults so far,
it is inevitable with any new machine that some mistakes will be made
in design or equipment used. A thorough FMAA in design stage eliminates
many such things, but not all.
All the machines on the market will do the same job. Extra bells and whistles
just means some are quicker than others.
If the jaguar is so perfect why do you use the Zeta, from my point of view
heat is a neccesity so the jaguar has a glaring ommision there.
Point 1, How exactly, do you know that? How do you know how many Jags have sold... (Remembering of course that the Yanks buy them too....!)
Point 2, Don't get too stressed there, you'll do yourself harm :P
Point 3, I'm going to be completely honest now... I use the Zeta for the greasy/minging jobs and do, from time to time, use hand hot/warm tap water along with SPM with excellent results you'd expect from an OCD C/C ;)
All I know is, I come across a lot of other machines in my second job and some are better than others.
But let me throw a googly here, look at Neil 47's thread "Powerburst". Proof that in actual fact, with the right knowledge and know how, a Numatic £500 machine is as good at producing the desired results as the most expensive porty on the market... Maybe we're all guilty of being "Fan Boys" to certain degrees... Including you... :P
Hope I haven't p*&^ed on your fire.... ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for the replies
I should have said 1 Cord twin vac machine. I believe the jag uses 2 cords.
Thanks
Eddie
Didn't know such a thing existed..... ???
With regards to which machine is better, just wait and see how many second hand machines turn up!
The one that turns up for sale the most is the most unreliable one, Only time will tell.... ;)
In that case, there is a ninja for sale on ebay nearly every week.
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Thanks for the replies
I should have said 1 Cord twin vac machine. I believe the jag uses 2 cords.
Thanks
Eddie
Didn't know such a thing existed..... ???
With regards to which machine is better, just wait and see how many second hand machines turn up!
The one that turns up for sale the most is the most unreliable one, Only time will tell.... ;)
In that case, there is a ninja for sale on ebay nearly every week.
Put your tin hat on, Steve. Ninja "Fan Boys" will be on to you.... ;D (I just love that term... "Fan Boys")
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You could have a jag or storm eyc with a smaller water pump this would give you the 1 cord that you are after not sure how high you could go with the psi may be 300?? May be some on here could work out the ampage/voltage, saying Clinton uses 1 cord on his alltec (or is that on his hair drier)
Shaun
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;D
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You could have a jag or storm eyc with a smaller water pump this would give you the 1 cord that you are after not sure how high you could go with the psi may be 300?? May be some on here could work out the ampage/voltage, saying Clinton uses 1 cord on his alltec (or is that on his hair drier)
Shaun
The Jag is designed to fit as much in to it as USA 120v amp draw will allow on two chords ...
The UK market is not really Considered in the design ... but then other US Companies wouldn't bother either ....
The scorpion was/is a Uk considered design ( not available in states , recoil was different )
Amp draw for the Jag at 120v would be ...
Each 6.6 motor - 12 amps
The 800psi pumptec - up to 8 amps
The pumpout pump - 5 amps
So id say they have a 6.6 and one pump on each cord ...
At 240v all of the above are halved ....
so we could just about stick it all on one cord 20 amp circuit ....
But we could have something else ....
Perhaps ... cord one .... two 6.6 and pump out ( 15 amps )
cord two .... another 6.6 and pumptec ( 11 amps )
Or ...
cord one .... two 6.6 and smaller pumtec limited to 400 or perhaps more ( 13 amps )
cord two .... 2000 watt heater and pumpout ( 13 amps )
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Thanks for the replies
I should have said 1 Cord twin vac machine. I believe the jag uses 2 cords.
Thanks
Eddie
Didn't know such a thing existed..... ???
With regards to which machine is better, just wait and see how many second hand machines turn up!
The one that turns up for sale the most is the most unreliable one, Only time will tell.... ;)
In that case, there is a ninja for sale on ebay nearly every week.
Put your tin hat on, Steve. Ninja "Fan Boys" will be on to you.... ;D (I just love that term... "Fan Boys")
I'm wearing my Yellow hard hat & flame suit Colin.
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John dont let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
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John dont let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
Me ? :)
I could rant about any make / machine ..
Want to hit us with those facts ? ;D
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I guess if you don't use the auto pumps and have them disconnected to lighten the electrical load.
Shaun
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I guess if you don't use the auto pumps and have them disconnected to lighten the electrical load.
Shaun
Yes , or you could put a switch on it ... but really it not significant the overall load ...
2 amps or so ...
bet most of us plug a twin even with heater into the same room ie same circuit ...i know i do ... we can get away with lots at 240v
One of the biggest problems in the states is they cant really put two vacs on the one cord @ 120v ..amp draw would be 24 to 30 amps ..
I really wouldn't disconnect the auto pump on the jag as that dirty tank is a disaster area design wise ... always an inch of water/grit /fluff in the bottom ... without hosing it out ... :D
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The mighty Bane runs on a single lead and with modern tools does a sterling job.
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Ok... i can talk about 3 vac machines and twin vac machines because i have had both.
I owned an Airflex Turbo, it was a good machine and very well designed and well made. Now i have moved on to a Jaguar for these reasons:
1 The Jag is lighter and i can lift it in and out of my vehicle
2 The Jag uses TWO power cords compared to the THREE on the Airflex
3 I can clearly see the water levels in both the solution and recovery tanks because the tanks are translucent
4 All switches, dump valve, guages and vac inlet are all on one side of the Jag so its better for van mounting, no need to reach around the back
5 It has one less motor to replace or repair
Like Colin i use SPM on most domestic jobs, warm or cold water is all thats required for use in the Jag to extract, however on the larger jobs i too use a zeta which provides ample heat and continues water flow of pressures of up to 1750 psi.
Both machines are excellent its all about which one is right for you...
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I have the Airflex Turbo and it has TWO power cords, not three ???
The new Airflex machine has only TWO MOTORS like the Jag, and is lighter than the older triple vac Turbo
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I have the Airflex Turbo and it has TWO power cords, not three ???
The new Airflex machine has only TWO MOTORS like the Jag, and is lighter than the older triple vac Turbo
Maybe he's referring to the old Airflex ???
I have to agree about the translucent waste/solution tank, it is a lot better than what I was used to.... :)
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Ok... i can talk about 3 vac machines and twin vac machines because i have had both.
I owned an Airflex Turbo, it was a good machine and very well designed and well made. Now i have moved on to a Jaguar for these reasons:
1 The Jag is lighter and i can lift it in and out of my vehicle
2 The Jag uses TWO power cords compared to the THREE on the Airflex
3 I can clearly see the water levels in both the solution and recovery tanks because the tanks are translucent
4 All switches, dump valve, guages and vac inlet are all on one side of the Jag so its better for van mounting, no need to reach around the back
5 It has one less motor to replace or repair
Like Colin i use SPM on most domestic jobs, warm or cold water is all thats required for use in the Jag to extract, however on the larger jobs i too use a zeta which provides ample heat and continues water flow of pressures of up to 1750 psi.
Both machines are excellent its all about which one is right for you...
Yes , all machines have issues all can be used to do great job ... :)
Im just saying ... for the price of it , over three grand ! The UK
jag could have at least the option of onboard heat .... or indeed an
extra 6.6 both of which would add very little weight ... Actually the
scorpion weights 87lbs (39kgs) where as the Jaguar weighs 42kgs .
I think the switches are in a poor position and can be easily damaged
by hiting off thing in the van etc ... the waste tank doesn't fully
empty(without pumpout) and access is poor . :)
The storm seems to be copy jaguar , perhaps cashing in on the hype and
why not ... similar advertising rhetoric and similarly no data to back
up claims ...
M.S ... a component of many cleaning products cleverly singled out and
marketed to help sell american machines with no heaters :-X
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The mighty Bane runs on a single lead and with modern tools does a sterling job.
Bane :) ... great system overall ... but pros and cons
Yes its a one cord if you just use the water tank heat exchanger which
is plumbed to van cooling system ... works well but you have to drive
several miles from cold to get hot water .. if you use the emersion
heater in the water tank then its a two cord machine ..
I believe the newer banes use a direct coupled motor/blower instead of
the belt drive and used two cords / US circuits on the blower pump
giving better performance ... so that could be a three cord setup if
you use the heater ..
Great system but the huge price is against it and portables now offer
same or better performance for a fraction of the price ...
Actually the original CA Jaguar 4000 was a bane type blower machine
with an electric vac booster ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carpet-Cleaning-Electric-Truckmount-Machine-/200660267712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb848b2c0
ETM is making a mainstream comeback of sorts here though ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHIWFz3iiv8
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Ok... i can talk about 3 vac machines and twin vac machines because i have had both.
I owned an Airflex Turbo, it was a good machine and very well designed and well made. Now i have moved on to a Jaguar for these reasons:
1 The Jag is lighter and i can lift it in and out of my vehicle
2 The Jag uses TWO power cords compared to the THREE on the Airflex
3 I can clearly see the water levels in both the solution and recovery tanks because the tanks are translucent
4 All switches, dump valve, guages and vac inlet are all on one side of the Jag so its better for van mounting, no need to reach around the back
5 It has one less motor to replace or repair
Like Colin i use SPM on most domestic jobs, warm or cold water is all thats required for use in the Jag to extract, however on the larger jobs i too use a zeta which provides ample heat and continues water flow of pressures of up to 1750 psi.
Both machines are excellent its all about which one is right for you...
Yes , all machines have issues all can be used to do great job ... :)
Im just saying ... for the price of it , over three grand ! The UK
jag could have at least the option of onboard heat .... or indeed an
extra 6.6 both of which would add very little weight ... Actually the
scorpion weights 87lbs (39kgs) where as the Jaguar weighs 42kgs .
I think the switches are in a poor position and can be easily damaged
by hiting off thing in the van etc ... the waste tank doesn't fully
empty(without pumpout) and access is poor . :)
The storm seems to be copy jaguar , perhaps cashing in on the hype and
why not ... similar advertising rhetoric and similarly no data to back
up claims ...
M.S ... a component of many cleaning products cleverly singled out and
marketed to help sell american machines with no heaters :-X
But it works.... I did an office carpet today, a proper minger, stains everywhere. Pre sprayed SPM, agitated with Host and the boss of the company came in and said "Wow, looks like a new carpet...!"
I hadn't even rise extracted..... ;)
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Would it be possible to upgrade a machine currently fitted with twin 5.7 vac motors to twin 6.6 motors in parallel?
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Depends on the integrity of the vacuum tank also the size of the motor compartment, the 6.6 motors are more efficient but there are 8.4 which are yet to be used perhaps that's the next stage in a few years time (not a simple replace with electric pull) I guess the next stage after that is a blower, so Mr.Bane was more advanced than we make give him credit for, I loved my Bane I agree they are over priced IMO but it was built like a battleship and also supplied by an excellent company.
Shaun
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Would it be possible to upgrade a machine currently fitted with twin 5.7 vac motors to twin 6.6 motors in parallel?
Whats your machine ... is it parallel
Should be no problem , just modify the brackets to fit ....
performance for each 6.6 is about 120-130 " lift and about 130 cfm so dont expect a world of difference ... what would make a difference for longer runs is to modify the vac outlet to 2" , thats one thing the jag has going for it ...
But as you have to get the vacs from the states anyway ... why not get two lighthouse motors .... great lift specs ... mytee have started using them .
116765-OD 240v
151 " lift and 220 cfm ... they cost $150 + 10 to get the hako tube added .... bout the same as the 6.6 price wise ...
half way down this page :)
http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm
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Would it be possible to upgrade a machine currently fitted with twin 5.7 vac motors to twin 6.6 motors in parallel?
Whats your machine ... is it parallel
Should be no problem , just modify the brackets to fit ....
performance for each 6.6 is about 120-130 " lift and about 130 cfm so dont expect a world of difference ... what would make a difference for longer runs is to modify the vac outlet to 2" , thats one thing the jag has going for it ...
But as you have to get the vacs from the states anyway ... why not get two lighthouse motors .... great lift specs ... mytee have started using them .
116765-OD 240v
151 " lift and 220 cfm ... they cost $150 + 10 to get the hako tube added .... bout the same as the 6.6 price wise ...
half way down this page :)
http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm
Mytee Speedster 500 deluxe. Good sized bay to accomodate larger motors. Current motors are twin 5.7 in parallel. 2" vacuum hose as standard.
Specifications:
Body: Roto-molded polyethylene
Tank: 12 gallon
Vacuum: 2-3 St
CFM: 200
H20: 137"
Pump: Piston
PSI: 0-500
GPM: 1.45
Cords: Dual 50' 12/3
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Would it be possible to upgrade a machine currently fitted with twin 5.7 vac motors to twin 6.6 motors in parallel?
Whats your machine ... is it parallel
Should be no problem , just modify the brackets to fit ....
performance for each 6.6 is about 120-130 " lift and about 130 cfm so dont expect a world of difference ... what would make a difference for longer runs is to modify the vac outlet to 2" , thats one thing the jag has going for it ...
But as you have to get the vacs from the states anyway ... why not get two lighthouse motors .... great lift specs ... mytee have started using them .
116765-OD 240v
151 " lift and 220 cfm ... they cost $150 + 10 to get the hako tube added .... bout the same as the 6.6 price wise ...
half way down this page :)
http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm
Mytee Speedster 500 deluxe. Good sized bay to accomodate larger motors. Current motors are twin 5.7 in parallel. 2" vacuum hose as standard.
Specifications:
Body: Roto-molded polyethylene
Tank: 12 gallon
Vacuum: 2-3 St
CFM: 200
H20: 137"
Pump: Piston
PSI: 0-500
GPM: 1.45
Cords: Dual 50' 12/3
' Mytee Steve ' i should have guessed :D
I would say you have pretty good motors as is ( specs above ... show mytee always print accurate data ... other manufacturers would just double the cfm rating for two vacs but you never get double ..you get about 70% on the second vac ....
but when they need replacing i cant think of a more appropriate machine to upgrade to the lighthouse vac i mentioned above ...
Mytee are using them in their new M5 but calling them LMB3A motors inhouse ...
and they are 5.7 three stage but with a newer conical fan assembly ... if you do order make sure you ask to get the hose tube fitted to them ...
if you want to fit to 6.6 you would have a unique machine also ... but more performance from the lighthouse .
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and .... to fit the lighthouse you need two of these thicker gaskets to fit the conical bottom
http://ccs5.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=4765
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Thanks for the infomation John.
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no problem :) I should have a degree in googling stuff ...
auctally because the mytee motors sit on a manifold , chances are there is no hako tube on them ... you would have to remove one to confirm ,if you dont know already ... those thick gaskets are probably available on the central vac site also .