Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mrminlfc on November 11, 2011, 04:56:25 pm
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ok guys please help
ive started a cleaning company and am at present very small using friends and family for office, end of tenancy and domestic cleans
got a phoncall for a builders clean quote for 14000 sq ft three story building which is out of my league as require cscs cards for all workers ect but my little brain began to work and rather than just so no and watch work go away i had the bright idea of getting quotes myself and adding on a sum that would make it worth while but i have concerns
1. i charge no vat (small new company) anyone i use would charge how to get round this
2. pitfalls i could face doing this ?!? am i biting off more than i can chew
3. sub contracting whats the risk
please help as aim to respond by monday
rich
mostran cleaning services ltd
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The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk
I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.
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Darran
There is no CIS to pay on external cleaning. I never pay it!!.
Rob ;D
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That is presuming it is an external but rereading the post it probably is internal.
Good luck
Rob ;D
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Darran
There is no CIS to pay on external cleaning. I never pay it!!.
Rob ;D
Rob
There may be some internal cleaning!
Hope that you are well and keeping busy
Darran
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That is presuming it is an external but rereading the post it probably is internal.
Good luck
Rob ;D
Do you not provide internal Cleaning?
We do both in and out, up and down!
Darran
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Darran
Internal cleaning is for girls!!!! and because it is only 14000sqm I saw it as just a small external clean, couple of hours.
That's why I let you get in there first.
I am off the scale with works in Ashford, Sevenoaks, Stroud and Welwyn Garden City. These are all manly works though!! ;D ;D ;D
Rob ;D
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Rob,
We do prefer external cleaning ourselves, but often get asked for both - seeing as we are so good at it ;D
We are doing a lot of ceiling cleans at the moment, London tomorrow, Selby on Sunday, Clacton on Monday this list goes on and on. I know how you feel.
Main difference though for me is I mainly just quote and organise my staff to do the rest ;D ;D
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I like it. ;
My clients pay enough to get my saggy ar$e out of bed 8)
Cleaned a Sainsbury's store in Clacton a couple of years ago. Has Selby got a ceiling fitted??
I'm wallowing in my own importance here ;D ;D ;D
Rob ;D
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I like it. ;
My clients pay enough to get my saggy ar$e out of bed 8)
Cleaned a Sainsbury's store in Clacton a couple of years ago. Has Selby got a ceiling fitted??
I'm wallowing in my own importance here ;D ;D ;D
Rob ;D
Drax Power Station ;D
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The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk
I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.
Darren,
Bit surprised / confused ... how does the CIS scheme effect you with internal cleaning ?
as Rob has said, not required for external cleaning
Mike
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The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk
I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.
Darren,
Bit surprised / confused ... how does the CIS scheme effect you with internal cleaning ?
as Rob has said, not required for external cleaning
Mike
Hi Mike,
Some of our customers take off 20% Tax as we are CIS registered, some don't.
It really depends on type of buildings that we are working on/in.
It is confusing as we recently did an internal builders clean at Gatwick - Airport for over 30k and they didn't take anything off.
We then did an 800 pound job in London for an office refurbishment and the client took off the 20%
We are confused as I think the customers are, but either way - Tax has been paid and I am sure it will resolve itself at the end of the Tax year.
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We only carry out cleaning hence have not registered for CIS, however some clients have asked for CIS we simply explain its not required for 'cleaning only', last time we checked with revenue .... so far no probs !
prefer to have money in my back pocket ;D ;D
Your accountant is going to have fun ;D ;D
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The best way is this.
Contact me on darran@purple-rhino.co.uk
I can arrange to go and quote the building with you/for you.
We will add on top of my price the bit you want.
I invoice the client, and you invoice me.
There is a lot to consider such as CIS etc
We as a company have everything in place to clean such buildings.
CIS Deductions are no problem! When we incurred them we simply deducted that amount from our PAYE payments anyway. Tax has to be paid one way or another
Kev Martin
Marble Life Ltd
Darren,
Bit surprised / confused ... how does the CIS scheme effect you with internal cleaning ?
as Rob has said, not required for external cleaning
Mike
Hi Mike,
Some of our customers take off 20% Tax as we are CIS registered, some don't.
It really depends on type of buildings that we are working on/in.
It is confusing as we recently did an internal builders clean at Gatwick - Airport for over 30k and they didn't take anything off.
We then did an 800 pound job in London for an office refurbishment and the client took off the 20%
We are confused as I think the customers are, but either way - Tax has been paid and I am sure it will resolve itself at the end of the Tax year.
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We only carry out cleaning hence have not registered for CIS, however some clients have asked for CIS we simply explain its not required for 'cleaning only', last time we checked with revenue .... so far no probs !
prefer to have money in my back pocket ;D ;D
Your accountant is going to have fun ;D ;D
The only issue with not being CIS registered for some companies is that their billing is set up to automatically deduct CIS. It is therefore so much simpler to just insist on CIS accross the board.
If you meet certain criteria you can apply for CIS exemption but best to check with existing Clients / target Clients that this wouldn't exclude you from working with them. Even if you do meet the criteria it is far from assured that you'll be successful.
Onto the original poster: -
1) VAT does not apply to new build houses, so double check it applies to this property.
2) Depends on your knowledge, experience and capability. Only you can know this.
3) Sub-Contracting - It is unlikely that you're the only company invirted to put a price in. Margins being what they are I doubt you'd compete on price with a mark-up added. Other issues are insurances, payment terms, quality, reliability, liability. This list is endless. Best chance for you here would be to speak with those here showing an interest. Check their previous work (references). Agree a fee for yourself should they suceed in winning the job via their own tender. This way you have no obligations, nor liabilities to the customer as you are out of the loop.
Just be sure to get the agreement nice and tight.
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Yep totally get that ref companies billing so it can help them or possibly exclude yorself if not reg ... but ... for IR CIS reg is not required for cleaning or atleast it wasnt last yr when we checked, maybe its changed..
I am constantly confused ;D ;D must be my age
bit lost by last post ref vat whats the building got to do with it ??
It is your charge for services ...either you are registered or not ??
Original post If you employ someone who is vat reg you will pay them full amount services + vat.... you have to 'suck in' that cost..
If you are not vat registered cant see how you can charge vat to end client ??
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I'm confused here...
We're deducted 20% when requested for CIS number on some jobs. Should I not be allowing it?
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Lee, your exempt from CIS for any external cleaning. ill email you over the page from HMRC ive got..
Just send it to your clients who want to deduct CIS...they can jam it..
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Hi,
Ian is completely correct on the VAT issue.
New builds are exempt from VAT until they are occupied. So for instance you would not charge any VAT on the build clean, re-clean and sparkle on a new build plot but would charge VAT on a weekly showhome clean as the sales team have "moved in".
On refurbs you do charge VAT as this is simply change of use and not classed as new build.
Cheers,
Huw
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Hi,
Ian is completely correct on the VAT issue.
New builds are exempt from VAT until they are occupied. So for instance you would not charge any VAT on the build clean, re-clean and sparkle on a new build plot but would charge VAT on a weekly showhome clean as the sales team have "moved in".
On refurbs you do charge VAT as this is simply change of use and not classed as new build.
Cheers,
Huw
Spot on, thanks Huw
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I'm confused here...
We're deducted 20% when requested for CIS number on some jobs. Should I not be allowing it?
If the builder is part of the CIS and you have no exemption then you have no choice. Just be sure to get your monthly CIS statement.
Your remittances will also clearly show the deductions so worst case you'll have that to fall back on should there be any issues.
All works we carry out for all builders, including sales centres and show homes automatically attract the 20% deduction.
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thks seerclean for clearing up vat issure ;D ;D
We dont do a massive amount onf new builds thank god... CIS still a mess... we have carried out work for a developer - external, CIS registered we did not pay CIS ..same as Rob and Matt have mentioned.
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this is for the pressure washers. CIS isnt valid on any external cleaning.
See attached file..
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well done matt ;D ;D what a great scheme :o :P no wonder so much confusion..
I bet Rich is glad he added this post ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Yeah, I gave up some CIS before I found out about it. They don't make it very clear. But now I'm CIS freeeee ;D
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Yeah, I gave up some CIS before I found out about it. They don't make it very clear. But now I'm CIS freeeee ;D
You can either offset what you paid against your tax-bil or put a claim in for a full refund.
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Yeah i know its not money down the drain, but i just hated the hassle.
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all sounds a bit odd they way i see it
cis is basically no more this was mainly for construction workers self employed where 20% was ddt at source by the sub-contractor builder or egency etc whoever is paying the bill basically
all set by ir to get a bit before workers disappear
you now require a utr number and work as a sole trader limited co etc again 20 % ddt in the same way unless you apply to inland venue to be applied gross you get this after hitting around 42 grand turnover / trading for a set period of time i think it was around 6 months
if going down the gross route 1 big tax bill - ddts so no refunds
but you need to keep / set that aside or you end up in the po po
or the ir will take a standing order per month for a set amount and then + / _ worked out at the end of the year
then ddt all expenses etc in the usual way at the end of the year and get a tax tefund
all gets a bit more complicated when vats involved but kicks in when more moneys involved some works vat applicable others not etc
but in a nutshell all work is taxable be inside or out
also dont forget ni contributions this is up to you to pay
whatever way you go you still get shafted by the goverment (unless your cute)