Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Caleb Morley on October 15, 2011, 04:48:09 pm
-
Hi All,
Got a call from a customer this afternoon saying they have found a scratch on one of the windows of their new conservatory that I cleaned yesterday.
Im going round there to see it at 5.30pm and need some advice on how to play it. I dont think ive done it as im sure i would have noticed it yesterday. The customer is really nice though and definately not the type to make it up and try and have me over (as far as i know). They know im insured as do all my customers.
Ive tried calling polished insurance for advice on how to play it but their offices are closed. Any tips?
excess is £250 - really dont need to pay that on a claim this month.
Cheers,
Caleb
-
Give him the brush and ask him to see if he can scratch the glass with it. Tell him if he can you'll happily pay. Unless you've got lumps of grit embedded in the brush stock, there's no way you can have scratched it.
There is just a vague possibility that it could have been 'manufacturing debris' - tiny bits left on the glass surface after the manufacturing process that can drag across the glass and scratch it, but this is very unlikely and anyway if you've done a good job and washed it well there won't be any of that on there now so go ahead with the challenge...
-
Just play it by ear, go and have a look but don't admit to anything. I had a good customer complain about scratched lead and making the glue run from the lead after cleaning with WFP. The first thing they said when i turned up was, "I hope you have bought your insurance details with you"! After a few exchanged words, i left them with a brush that i had used, a glass of pure water and said to give me a ring if they decide to take it further. Well after a phone call a few days later, it turns out that the window company had not cleaned the windows after installation, so they couldn't be sure if the problems were there before or not, but were quite sure it would of been me that damaged them! Oh and that they were going to find a good old fashioned window cleaner to clean them the proper way! ;D
-
Thanks for the replies.
Only problem is I was using a scraper as it was the first time cleaning the conservatory as it had glue on it from stickers etc. The customer saw me using a scraper. Not that I think ive caused the scratch even using that.
Just got to go and have a look i guess
-
Learn from experience. Next time you have a job like this get the customer to sign a simple disclaimer. Why should you pick up the bill for lazy b****s installers? They're supposed to clean off all the stickers etc as part of the installation.
-
With glue residue from the stickers, i always use white sprit to remove it, only takes a quick wipe over. If you soaped up the glass enough, should of been ok anyway. But i would just go look and see how bad it is. As Ian say's, they should of been cleaned off as part of the installation, i normally have the odd one, but not on every piece of glass!
-
if youve used a scraper then to be honest its 95% chance its down to you.
you shouldn't be asking this lot for a list of excuses you should just come clean.
too many people on here try to use every excuse for things like this, how does anyone else on here know if your at fault ?
and yet your being given advice on how to sherk responsability, if your at fault then own up to the customer, if its new glass there is a chance it can be repaired which wouldn't need to go through your insurance and will aslo make you more careful next time you take a scraper to a window.
-
Sven,
Where have I asked for a list of excuses? Nowhere - open your eyes and read properly sunshine.
All Ive asked for is advice from people as a new window cleaner. If I knew 100% I had done it I would come clean.....thats why I have insurance and Im an honest bloke.
As it is ive been round there and said I dont think ive done it but at the same time I cant say 100% that it wasnt and have offered to get it repaired etc. The customers are decent people, there not trying to have me over. I'll have to take it on the chin.
-
play it by ear mate come to some arrangment there are glass repair teams which can get the scatch out look in the yell pages
-
if youve used a scraper then to be honest its 95% chance its down to you.
you shouldn't be asking this lot for a list of excuses you should just come clean.
too many people on here try to use every excuse for things like this, how does anyone else on here know if your at fault ?
and yet your being given advice on how to sherk responsability, if your at fault then own up to the customer, if its new glass there is a chance it can be repaired which wouldn't need to go through your insurance and will aslo make you more careful next time you take a scraper to a window.
;D
Caleb, if you have scratched the glass using a scraper, i think you would of known about it. I've used scrapers for years, and to be honest it is very hard to scratch glass unless you use the corner of the blade. Just a thought, find out who installed it, give them a call and tell them what has happened, they may see some blame themselves, ie leaving sticker marks ect, and fit a new piece of glass at cost or something, worth a call?
-
so why the hell do all trad cleaners use scrapers for removing stubborn bird muck or stickers that window fitters should remove, i still keep mine on me even though i am WFP and how the hell can it his fault if he used a scraper clearly the glass has not been cleaned properly or at at all by the people who fitted the conny so there fore how can the custy blame caleb , the scratch has only become visible when the glass has been cleaned properly so the window fitting company cannot pass the blame either. MIKE
-
The customer said he initially thought it was a smear when he first discovered it and when he went rubbed his finger on it there were splinters of glass still in the scratch. On that basis its hard to think it wasnt me, plus the way he was, i can tell he wasnt trying to pull a fast one. I am suprised I didnt see it yesterday though.
Anyone know much about glass repairs then? Would obviously prefer to go down that route rather than having to make a claim through insurance and pay £250 excess
Cheers,
Caleb
-
How big is the window unit? Is it safety glass? A non-safety sealed unit on a 1200 x 600 window shouldn't cost even £100 to replace if you use a "window doctor" type of co. that replaces misted units and hinges etc. Especially if you offer to hand out his business cards to all your custies.
If it's a floor length door safety unit it will be rather more.
I must say that alarm bells ring when it's a new installation - I would wonder if it was a manufacturer's fault or something an installer has done and was only revealed because you thoroughly cleaned it - I mean what have you got to lose by using the point of the scraper on the glass and see if it marks it whereas other units are fine (obviously do this carefully - you don't want to stump up for two units let alone one!)
-
The customer said he initially thought it was a smear when he first discovered it and when he went rubbed his finger on it there were splinters of glass still in the scratch. On that basis its hard to think it wasnt me, plus the way he was, i can tell he wasnt trying to pull a fast one. I am suprised I didnt see it yesterday though.
Anyone know much about glass repairs then? Would obviously prefer to go down that route rather than having to make a claim through insurance and pay £250 excess
Cheers,
Caleb
splinters in the scratch, that doesnt sound right.
-
Its a conservatory door (obviously double glazed), so a fairly large piece of glass. Not sure whether its safety glass or not.
I half think it could well of been done by someone else but I can prove it wasnt me the same as they cant prove it was me. The fact Ive cleaned it up probably has highlighted it, but again as Ive said im not 100% that i havent done it.
Good week for me as Ive already shelled out just under £300 to get my van through its MOT.
Can scratched glass be repaired like windscreens with cracks are?
Cheers,
Caleb
-
Its a conservatory door (obviously double glazed), so a fairly large piece of glass. Not sure whether its safety glass or not.
I half think it could well of been done by someone else but I can prove it wasnt me the same as they cant prove it was me. The fact Ive cleaned it up probably has highlighted it, but again as Ive said im not 100% that i havent done it.
Good week for me as Ive already shelled out just under £300 to get my van through its MOT.
Can scratched glass be repaired like windscreens with cracks are?
Cheers,
Caleb
Scratches can be polished out, but with standard DG units its often cheaper to replace. By law all doors should be safety glass, and safety glass scratches much easier,...
Let me know your e-mail & I'll send you a waiver that you should ALWAYS get signed before a builders clean.
-
Hi Nathanel,
My email is info@lionsoflondon.co.uk
Cheers for the advice and waiver. I think I'll get a quote for both a replacement and a repair and just go for the cheapest.
-
Sent. ;)
Hi Nathanel,
My email is info@lionsoflondon.co.uk
Cheers for the advice and waiver. I think I'll get a quote for both a replacement and a repair and just go for the cheapest.
-
if at all possible deny ;)
-
It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that it was there during initial installation.
I had double glazing installed 3 years ago and later noticed a scratch on one of the double glazed units, fitters and suppliers denied everything until it came to light, the scratch was on the inside of the double glazing :o
-
I had patio windows fitted when i came home i could see some scratches on them,so they replaced them, when the lad was there i said what the f--k to the lad who just fitted them they are worse than the other windows look theres a big scratch down this window so they came back and changed them again till i was happy,most probably
you have not scratched them.ps they sent a bloke down who makes the glass to have a look.
-
did you soap up the window before using the scraper and was it a new blade?its essential you do these things if you use a scraper to take glue off the window.
its a hard one to prove.if you defo didnt think you scratched the window.stand your ground.
-
I made sure the blade and glass was wet but wasnt soapy water. Blade wasnt brand new.
All part of the learning process I guess.
Really hope it can be repaired with a DIY kit rather than having to shell loads out on a company to repair or replace it
-
Hi Caleb,how are you getting along with this scratched glass
Claim,any further news yet ?
Lewis Doubtfire
-
I worked in the double glazing game for a while and can't say I ever managed to scratch anything with a blade, dry or wet. Its a crap situation to be in but its good to see how your dealing with it mate.
Post a pic of the scratch if you can, it might also be worth you posting a thread on www.detailingworld.co.uk its a car detailing site obviously, but there are lots of chaps on there that might be able to polish this out for you if it's not too deep. There might even be someone in your area if your lucky.
Has to be worth a try if the customer is a reasonable chap.
-
I worked in the double glazing game for a while and can't say I ever managed to scratch anything with a blade, dry or wet. Its a crap situation to be in but its good to see how your dealing with it mate.
Post a pic of the scratch if you can, it might also be worth you posting a thread on www.detailingworld.co.uk its a car detailing site obviously, but there are lots of chaps on there that might be able to polish this out for you if it's not too deep. There might even be someone in your area if your lucky.
Has to be worth a try if the customer is a reasonable chap.
heya there matey :) hows it going??
-
Latest news is that I'm seeing a friend who is a builder tomorrow who has polished scratches out of glass to get his opinion.
I bumped into an Anglian double glazing installer while out cleaning today so thought id go and have a chat with him. I showed him my scraper and he said there was no way Ive scratched it with that. I even told him the exact type of glass as the customer has told me this.
When I got home tonight I tried to scratch the glass on one of the windows at the back of our garage with my scraper. I couldnt scratch the glass even when trying. Just dont think ive done it. Im sure i would have noticed if i did.
Its a right mess.
Cheers,
Caleb
-
done loads of builders cleans used scrapers on all and have never scratched any ,only time i had any probs was with self cleaning glass which seems to mark very easily,
-
One thing worth pointing out to the customer is that window cleaning scrapers have been in use and sold by companies such as Unger for donkeys years. Do they really think these companies would still be selling scrapers if they scratched glass? These scrapers are made for the purpose of removing 'things' from glass without scratching. Anyway, if they did scratch glass, they wouldn't be on the market because the companies would be liable for selling an item that is not fit for purpose.
I had similar with a customer a few years ago which was also to do with a new conservatory. After quite a few accusations and demands that I replace a large double glazed unit, I bought a small pane of safety glass and gave my scraper to the customer and asked him to try and scratch the glass with it.
After about 10 minutes of trying he handed me back the scraper and walked off. I lost a customer but he dropped his claim that I should fork out money for something I hadn't done.
Because the customer pee'd me off something serious, I send him a bill for the cost of me having to buy a small bit of glass, plus my time, just to prove I was innocent. He never sent a cheque but I made my point.
-
Take a look at it if you are 100% you did not scratch it , she will need to prove that you did , depending on your cover i do believe your insurance will fight her claim should she make one.
if you feel you did do it then sort it out!,
i had this before i think everyone has had this at least once , i was using brush and pure water , showed her the soft brush she still felt it did it, but she also had marks on the inside of her glass in the same places on the outside and she had a cat....
it sounded like she wanted to pull a fast one we spent an hour looking at all her windows , i refused to accept liability after 7 months she saw me in the street apologized etc , asked me to clean her windows again....
-
Andrew,sure,scrapers won`t scratch a clean new piece of glass,neither
Will a WFP brush or strip washer.It`s the layer of dirt,grime,grit that
Is on the glass to start with.Why are you cleaning the window,??????
Because it`s dirty !
What is dirty,? How longs a piece of string. ! If your certain the scratches
Wer`nt there after your last clean,now they are ,,after your latest clean.
It`s a tough one I know.Replacement is the way to go rather than trying
A scratch removal system.There is a professional company in Birmingham
I think that does it.Also I`ve a video of `The Scratch Hog`system.
As I understand it it`s big business in the USA.
Sometimes depending upon how deep the scratches are,after polishing out
The glass has a `hollow effect`wear the polishing took place.
I know this is`nt helping you much,but best of luck with it.hows it progressing
Anyway. ?
Lewis Doubtfire
P.S. Replacement is the way to go,wether it be yourself or the customer that
Will be `picking up the tab`.
-
Hello everyone,
I wanted to give an update on what happened with this.
A builder friend of mine had a go at removing the scratch to no avail. It was looking like £180 approx to replace the glass from the conservatory company. My mate managed to find the same bit of glass from a local trade supplier for only £60. I bit the bullet and replaced the glass.
Ive kept the customer though they dont want me to clean the conservatory. Im still convinced I didnt scratch it but whatever its sorted now and im over it. Ive learnt alot from the experience too. For any new window cleaners I'd offer the following advice:
1) When taking on a new job, look at the condition of the windows. If they are heavily soiled/paticularly with cement etc inform the customer that cleaning the windows may show up scratches already there or the cement render can cause scractches when removed. That way they cant really blame you if something goes wrong.
2) If really in doubt about a job, dont take it on. Theres too much work out there to worry about one difficult job.
3) Be honest. If youve made a mistake, be honest and put it right.
4) Use soap and water when using a scraper just to be 100% safe.
5) If accused of scratching the way you respond initially has a massive impact on the result. In my case because im a new window cleaner when this customer said id scarcthed the window i assumed i must off and thus handed the power to the customer. In 99% of cases you wouldnt have done it. Be firm and explain how its virtually impossible, unless of course you did do it!
6) If you need to replace glass, get a trade price from a glass supplier not a conservatory company who will want to make big profit on it.
7) Have a glass waiver that you can ask the customer to sign if the job looks tricky. (there are a few knocking around on this forum)
8) Trust no one. Im convinced that my customers husband scrached the glass and has lied to his wife and me.
9) Stuff will go wrong. Dont let it get to you. It could be a scratched bit of glass or a broken garden knome, your lifes bigger than that, try not to strress.
10) If you rush jobs this can lead to more accidents, so try and find a balance between efficient working and safety.
Cheers,
Caleb
ps thanks for all the help and advice from the other posters.
-
3) Be honest. If youve made a mistake, be honest and put it right.
6) If you need to replace glass, get a trade price from a glass supplier not a conservatory company who will want to make big profit on it.
Thanks for the update - it's always good to hear the long-term outcome of stuff like this.
Point 3 is well made and one I'd agree with
Point 6 is a good one for cementing relationships with customers. If they have a blown unit or a cracked pane, tell them this; custy saves loads of cash and you gain a lot of credibility with them.
Glad it all got fixed - customer will be singing your praises from the rooftops over the way you handled it.
Vin
-
Perfect Windows,are you sure about that ??? ???Caleb says he`s convinced her husband did it
Himself.If that’s true,I would`nt have thought
So,just the opposite more than likely.
This `thread`is perhaps could be a never ending
Type.
Caleb has `taken it on the chin`,things like this
Could happen to any of us at anytime.I suppose
If the complete conservertory had been covered
In scratches,well,don`t know what would have happened.
I`ve been accused of everything under the sun,apart
From scratching someones glass.There`s time yet :o
Lewis Doubtfire
-
Hello everyone,
I wanted to give an update on what happened with this.
A builder friend of mine had a go at removing the scratch to no avail. It was looking like £180 approx to replace the glass from the conservatory company. My mate managed to find the same bit of glass from a local trade supplier for only £60. I bit the bullet and replaced the glass.
Ive kept the customer though they dont want me to clean the conservatory. Im still convinced I didnt scratch it but whatever its sorted now and im over it. Ive learnt alot from the experience too. For any new window cleaners I'd offer the following advice:
1) When taking on a new job, look at the condition of the windows. If they are heavily soiled/paticularly with cement etc inform the customer that cleaning the windows may show up scratches already there or the cement render can cause scractches when removed. That way they cant really blame you if something goes wrong.
2) If really in doubt about a job, dont take it on. Theres too much work out there to worry about one difficult job.
3) Be honest. If youve made a mistake, be honest and put it right.
4) Use soap and water when using a scraper just to be 100% safe.
5) If accused of scratching the way you respond initially has a massive impact on the result. In my case because im a new window cleaner when this customer said id scarcthed the window i assumed i must off and thus handed the power to the customer. In 99% of cases you wouldnt have done it. Be firm and explain how its virtually impossible, unless of course you did do it!
6) If you need to replace glass, get a trade price from a glass supplier not a conservatory company who will want to make big profit on it.
7) Have a glass waiver that you can ask the customer to sign if the job looks tricky. (there are a few knocking around on this forum)
8) Trust no one. Im convinced that my customers husband scrached the glass and has lied to his wife and me.
9) Stuff will go wrong. Dont let it get to you. It could be a scratched bit of glass or a broken garden knome, your lifes bigger than that, try not to strress.
10) If you rush jobs this can lead to more accidents, so try and find a balance between efficient working and safety.
Cheers,
Caleb
ps thanks for all the help and advice from the other posters.
Great advice, glad its all sorted. How long have you been window cleaning now? Where would I find a waiver?
-
I started W/C in April, so not quite a year yet. Whats your email? I'll email u the one another member sent me mate.
Cheers,
Caleb
-
I started W/C in April, so not quite a year yet. Whats your email? I'll email u the one another member sent me mate.
Cheers,
Caleb
Nice one ;) Will be be using this advice when I start canvassing my new round! djnibz08@hotmail.com
-
i fit conservatorys and glass is about 10 to 80 pound and may be 40 to fit it .no way £250 shop around .
-
Hi All,
Got a call from a customer this afternoon saying they have found a scratch on one of the windows of their new conservatory that I cleaned yesterday.
Im going round there to see it at 5.30pm and need some advice on how to play it. I dont think ive done it as im sure i would have noticed it yesterday. The customer is really nice though and definately not the type to make it up and try and have me over (as far as i know). They know im insured as do all my customers.
Ive tried calling polished insurance for advice on how to play it but their offices are closed. Any tips?
let us know how you get on
excess is £250 - really dont need to pay that on a claim this month.
Cheers,
Caleb
-
glad sorted. thanks for update and nice advice. good work and gud luck with round.
-
Hello everyone,
I wanted to give an update on what happened with this.
A builder friend of mine had a go at removing the scratch to no avail. It was looking like £180 approx to replace the glass from the conservatory company. My mate managed to find the same bit of glass from a local trade supplier for only £60. I bit the bullet and replaced the glass.
Ive kept the customer though they dont want me to clean the conservatory. Im still convinced I didnt scratch it but whatever its sorted now and im over it. Ive learnt alot from the experience too. For any new window cleaners I'd offer the following advice:
1) When taking on a new job, look at the condition of the windows. If they are heavily soiled/paticularly with cement etc inform the customer that cleaning the windows may show up scratches already there or the cement render can cause scractches when removed. That way they cant really blame you if something goes wrong.
2) If really in doubt about a job, dont take it on. Theres too much work out there to worry about one difficult job.
3) Be honest. If youve made a mistake, be honest and put it right.
4) Use soap and water when using a scraper just to be 100% safe.
5) If accused of scratching the way you respond initially has a massive impact on the result. In my case because im a new window cleaner when this customer said id scarcthed the window i assumed i must off and thus handed the power to the customer. In 99% of cases you wouldnt have done it. Be firm and explain how its virtually impossible, unless of course you did do it!
6) If you need to replace glass, get a trade price from a glass supplier not a conservatory company who will want to make big profit on it.
7) Have a glass waiver that you can ask the customer to sign if the job looks tricky. (there are a few knocking around on this forum)
8) Trust no one. Im convinced that my customers husband scrached the glass and has lied to his wife and me.
9) Stuff will go wrong. Dont let it get to you. It could be a scratched bit of glass or a broken garden knome, your lifes bigger than that, try not to strress.
10) If you rush jobs this can lead to more accidents, so try and find a balance between efficient working and safety.
Cheers,
Caleb
ps thanks for all the help and advice from the other posters.
I wouldn't have taken responsibility for the scratch. But I've been cleaning much longer than you and it can take a few years to start getting cynical - after a few have tried things on. Whether or not the customer is the sort to try it on, the onus on them is to prove it IMO. I would rather lose a customer than have one take the p.
-
Caleb,a waiver is something that is better than nothing.
That is all it is.It might `save your bacon`on future accusations
By your customer,but don`t fully bank on it.
It can be like a companies terms and conditions of contract.
Not worth the paper it`s printed on. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Lewis Doubtfire