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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 05:18:45 pm

Title: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 05:18:45 pm
if you know there is a window cleaner doing it for beer money does it get on your nerves and should you shop him ?

i pay tax so why shouldnt he especially when hes charging £3 per house leaving me with no chance of getting the work with wfp you get the phrase "i only pay £3 every 2 weeks" yeah buy hes not paying tax and hes spreading your neighbours crap onto your glass hes also leaving your frames black and dents in your lawn and if he falls of the ladder get your cheque book out hes on your property you should have ladder ties for him installed
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 05:31:25 pm
What do you think?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 05:34:45 pm
so what, its called free enterprise, its up to the custy who they want to employ, if they want to employ some one doing a crap job, then it is up to them,  get better custys who will pay you what you think you are worth

i was having a discussing with a window cleaner in the chipy before who was telling me that wc is a skill and is sick of all these new people starting up and taking work off him
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: james51174 on October 08, 2011, 05:53:49 pm
i mentioned this on another thread a few weeks back and got shot down in flames...i was told to stop moaning, and if i cant adapt my business to compete with these types, then i should give up window cleaning!!!!

for what its worth...i agree with you....£3= a house is worse money than working in a supermarket with holiday/sicness pay....but if your signing on....then its nice pocket money!!!!

these types usually start in the spring and think wc is all good....but 90% of them pack up in the winter, due to a lack of balls to cope with cold hands lol

trouble is....by then, the damage is done to the rest of us :(
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 05:58:44 pm
Does it really effect that many? If you have people who don't care about the points GEMclean made, what are you missing out on? Custies that would swap WC's for 50p etc. Good custies are worth 20 times that. These type of guys can't damage a properly run and built business.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Mike_G on October 08, 2011, 05:59:26 pm
If he's only charging £3 per house perhaps he's not earning enough to pay tax
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:00:11 pm
If he's only charging £3 per house perhaps he's not earning enough to pay tax


Good point, who knows?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:07:01 pm
i took an estate on because the cleaner had two scallys climbing ladders breaking tiles in roofs under windows he then turned up with poles trying to get them back waving them side to side and as for free enterprise its not free were paying the dole cheats to do it, go to poundland get a bucket and tools WOW im a window cleaner mum !!!

and who in the right mind would trapes about all day climbing walls over gates for £3 obviously not someone paying bills council tax £100 per month thats 33 houses before tax
and customers sometime dont have a choice because of the "its my round " idea F*ck that ill work anywhere and try someone stop me tell the guy in the chippy next time you see him get a uniform and try advertising stop whinging if a new guy takes his work

"HES OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT GOOD PAL"
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:09:39 pm
Sorry mate, can't understand that  ???
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:09:56 pm
If he's only charging £3 per house perhaps he's not earning enough to pay tax


you pay tax no matter what you earn you claim it back at the end of the year like the rest of us hes charging £3 to stay off the radar he obviously hasnt got a real job because he would be doing it unless its a weekend thing then he definately is earning enough to pay tax as it is a second job
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:10:53 pm
So if he paid tax, depending on his main earnings, how much would be left from 3 quid?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:12:02 pm
basically cosy if they didnt charge £3 customers would have to pay what the job is worth so if the £3 none tax payers were not around we would have more customers and the £3 men would prob have jobs with us however they dont pay tax and ruin it for us trying to earn a crust and pay tax
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: andyatkinson on October 08, 2011, 06:12:23 pm
wow, so pent up ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: james51174 on October 08, 2011, 06:12:30 pm
Does it really effect that many? If you have people who don't care about the points GEMclean made, what are you missing out on? Custies that would swap WC's for 50p etc. Good custies are worth 20 times that. These type of guys can't damage a properly run and built business.

it has effected us massively

not just losing work...but word gets around...and customers start to moan about what we charge

"there is a friend of mine who only pays £6= for there house" etc

even if they dont want to use the cheap guy, they still use the info to get your price down
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:13:09 pm
well if he earned £3 per house at 30 houses a month less 20% tax £72
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: stuart mc on October 08, 2011, 06:13:55 pm
shouldn't assume they aren't paying tax just because they only charge £3.00, I know lots of legitimate window cleaners that charge that and pay their tax and some of them are pretty good shiners as well.

Don't get me wrong I wish they would put their prices up but it is up to them at the end of the day.

and I Know the lad that cleans my street, he pays tax, has insurance and a license and still only charges £3.50 a house so don't tell me it can't be done, he has a newish 4x4 bought and paid for, lives in a nice house in a nice area, oh and he does it all off a ladder
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:14:27 pm
If it's an issue with you GEM, then surely this must have a massive effect on all windies who pay tax and play by the rules?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:15:18 pm
lol i dont need to cock fight about work i just completed a builders clean on burger king trafford centre pal  ;)

im mad at paying tax and guys ruining the trade for us
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:16:16 pm
lol i dont need to cock fight about work i just completed a builders clean on burger king trafford centre pal  ;)

im mad at paying tax and guys ruining the trade for us

sorry you lost me
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: andyatkinson on October 08, 2011, 06:16:36 pm
if they did 30 houses a month at £3 they wouldnt have crossed the tax threshold by a long way!
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:17:11 pm
Now I'm confused  ;)
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:18:50 pm
any serious window cleaner knows this is true so the defenders on here are obviously guilty of it tax is the law pay it if a guy can charge £3 per house good luck to him but the ones who dont pay tax this is aimed at them so please dont bring guys working off ladders into this good for them but it must be a second job because no one can live on that type of money
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:20:55 pm
if they did 30 houses a month at £3 they wouldnt have crossed the tax threshold by a long way!
they wouldnt be crossing any threshold on that rate this is the point they dont work they claim dole they couldnt afford to pay for the threshold on a house to cross on that money never mind to pay tax
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 06:21:04 pm
i took an estate on because the cleaner had two scallys climbing ladders breaking tiles in roofs under windows he then turned up with poles trying to get them back waving them side to side and as for free enterprise its not free were paying the dole cheats to do it, go to poundland get a bucket and tools WOW im a window cleaner mum !!!

and who in the right mind would trapes about all day climbing walls over gates for £3 obviously not someone paying bills council tax £100 per month thats 33 houses before tax
and customers sometime dont have a choice because of the "its my round " idea F*ck that ill work anywhere and try someone stop me tell the guy in the chippy next time you see him get a uniform and try advertising stop whinging if a new guy takes his work

"HES OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT GOOD PAL"

this is how most window cleaners started,  do it for  a few years then go get a wfp system and then moan about tradders nicking all there work,

the bloke was losing work as he is crap,  i have took work off him,  
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:21:26 pm
Look mate, you sound a bit upset here. I'm trad, I pay tax, I'm VAT registered too. I have part time tax dodgers working a very limited custy base. I'll sing you a song about it if ya like. But these guys are all over the place. So they effect all of us. Work through it like we do.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: BORBRYCE on October 08, 2011, 06:22:57 pm
you pay tax no matter what you earn you claim it back at the end of the year like the rest of us
You don't pay tax whatever you earn, you have to reach a certain limit, and nor do you claim it back if you do.
Are you actually in business? You seem to have a vague view of it all and don't seem to know the facts too well to me. Also, national insurance is paid monthly and then 9% of any profit, did you know of this? you never mentioned it if you did. Which seem's strange.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 06:23:35 pm
u get it in all trades, nothing you can do about it,  except look after you own business,  i use to get really annoyed when i lost work and took it personal, now i dont care,  if i aint making enough i go and get more work
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:26:31 pm
yeah i get that there always going to be around but if we do nothing about it then its us who suffer typical british mentality keep calm and carry on
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: andyatkinson on October 08, 2011, 06:26:48 pm
thats exactly what i was saying, they wouldnt be earning enough to pay tax anyway on your figures, as long as they filled in a tax return etc thats legal, benefits etc is different, but you dont know everyones circumstances, i just think you should relax a bit, maybe take a holiday, unless they'd take your round while your gone ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:29:30 pm
GEM, not trying to wind you up, but if and when you have more work than you can handle, these guys at 3 quid just don't appear on your radar.  Build it up and they can't really do that much damage to your biz mate. Know how you feel, but that's the way this game is sometimes. You know that.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:32:03 pm
you pay tax no matter what you earn you claim it back at the end of the year like the rest of us
You don't pay tax whatever you earn, you have to reach a certain limit, and nor do you claim it back if you do.
Are you actually in business? You seem to have a vague view of it all and don't seem to know the facts too well to me. Also, national insurance is paid monthly and then 9% of any profit, did you know of this? you never mentioned it if you did. Which seem's strange.


sorry are you in Britain you declare to the inland revenue all of your earnings if yuou dont tell them or pay them how do they know if you cross it just on sheer good will haha  they issue you a tax code you pay tax to the revenue if you dont cross the tax code you get a rebate that is the system if you get a differnt one then your not in britain pal

also national insurance is paid when you like its voluntary to self employed they send you an invoice asking you to pay to qualify paye is paid by employers
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:34:24 pm
im not worried about taking my work it s more about getting more work people have had these guys for years i had one woman call us to clean but still paid her old guy because hed been doing it years then when i took out a scraper and cleaned off some paint he said he couldnt do she was amazed lol i was amazed he said he couldnt remove it
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Erithwc on October 08, 2011, 06:34:31 pm
i think some one's been drinking (http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)(http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)(http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)   hahaha    ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:36:51 pm
thats exactly what i was saying, they wouldnt be earning enough to pay tax anyway on your figures, as long as they filled in a tax return etc thats legal, benefits etc is different, but you dont know everyones circumstances, i just think you should relax a bit, maybe take a holiday, unless they'd take your round while your gone ;D

you just know these guys arent paying or declaring thats my point if they had to they wouldnt be around sometimes its like you v just called a customers mum when you tell them the cost and they spring back with weell i was paying £3 well yes love but im paying tax ,petrol,water rates, a mortgage, bills, phone costs, road tax,
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:37:42 pm
i think some one's been drinking (http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)(http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)(http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)   hahaha    ;D ;D ;D

haha i might turn to drink  ;) beer money needed hahaha
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:39:18 pm
Like I said before GEM. Just get enough work so it wont damage your biz. " If in doubt, put more custies in " is a good tip I got off one of the older guys on here. Can't remember who it was though. 8)
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: stuart mc on October 08, 2011, 06:41:01 pm
thats exactly what i was saying, they wouldnt be earning enough to pay tax anyway on your figures, as long as they filled in a tax return etc thats legal, benefits etc is different, but you dont know everyones circumstances, i just think you should relax a bit, maybe take a holiday, unless they'd take your round while your gone ;D

you just know these guys arent paying or declaring thats my point if they had to they wouldnt be around sometimes its like you v just called a customers mum when you tell them the cost and they spring back with weell i was paying £3 well yes love but im paying tax ,petrol,water rates, a mortgage, bills, phone costs, road tax,
that is just guessing as I have said I know many guys that are legitimate and charge these prices
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:41:48 pm
i offer a money bonus to customers to bring their friends over you should try it or a free clean per customer they get me little incentives
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:42:01 pm
That's not fair Stu!!! You're in Jockland  ;D ;D ;D ;D They all pay less than 3 quid  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:43:01 pm
i offer a money bonus to customers to bring their friends over you should try it or a free clean per customer they get me little incentives

Would you still do that if you had too much work?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:43:53 pm
thats exactly what i was saying, they wouldnt be earning enough to pay tax anyway on your figures, as long as they filled in a tax return etc thats legal, benefits etc is different, but you dont know everyones circumstances, i just think you should relax a bit, maybe take a holiday, unless they'd take your round while your gone ;D

you just know these guys arent paying or declaring thats my point if they had to they wouldnt be around sometimes its like you v just called a customers mum when you tell them the cost and they spring back with weell i was paying £3 well yes love but im paying tax ,petrol,water rates, a mortgage, bills, phone costs, road tax,
that is just guessing as I have said I know many guys that are legitimate and charge these prices

well i cant argue with that if they do pay fair enough but they must be mad each to their own like i said this is to the ones who dont pay
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: stuart mc on October 08, 2011, 06:44:27 pm
That's not fair Stu!!! You're in Jockland  ;D ;D ;D ;D They all pay less than 3 quid  ;D ;D ;D
:D ;) not all I take a fiver
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:44:59 pm
i offer a money bonus to customers to bring their friends over you should try it or a free clean per customer they get me little incentives

Would you still do that if you had too much work?

damn right you can never have too m uch work if you have too much employ someone who would be grateful for a job
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:45:08 pm
That's not fair Stu!!! You're in Jockland  ;D ;D ;D ;D They all pay less than 3 quid  ;D ;D ;D
:D ;) not all I take a fiver

Tax dodgin git  ;D ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:46:04 pm
i offer a money bonus to customers to bring their friends over you should try it or a free clean per customer they get me little incentives

Would you still do that if you had too much work?

damn right you can never have too m uch work if you have too much employ someone who would be grateful for a job

Yes, I know what you mean, but if you had too much that you and your people couldn't keep up, would you still do freebies?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:46:39 pm
hey im half scotch where do you think i learned to argue  ;)
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 06:48:57 pm
i offer a money bonus to customers to bring their friends over you should try it or a free clean per customer they get me little incentives

Would you still do that if you had too much work?

damn right you can never have too m uch work if you have too much employ someone who would be grateful for a job

Yes, I know what you mean, but if you had too much that you and your people couldn't keep up, would you still do freebies?

i only do it if a regular customer gets me another regular i dont for a one off but yes i would it gives them something to go at if i get him a customer i get a free clean 12 customers is a free years cleaning then that customer does the same and so on
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:54:41 pm
Yes I know how it works. I don't do it, but I know some do. But if you had enough custies that you alone can just manage, would you still give freebies? Even to the point of having to employ someone to do the freebies?

I think you've missed my point. I don't clean for free to get more work. Nothing wrong with doing that, but people pay for a clean. I know some think it's a great way to build, but if you look at the results, honestly, you'll see it's a small amount of custies that stick with you that come to you that way.

Up to you. I'll stick to putting custies in that pay from day 1. Anyway, get busy putting more custies in and the problems like dole cheats just don't matter then.

Try it. See if I'm right.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 06:56:28 pm
I tell a lie, I cleaned a custie last week who got me a squaddie SKY+ box.  ;D

AND free Sky Sports 1 and 2
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: stuart mc on October 08, 2011, 06:58:46 pm
I agree with cozy, I wouldn't pay a canvaser and I don't want them canvassing for free either, the neighbour/friend/family member feels pressured to agree then before you know it they are PIA customers, much prefer the custom to come to me
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Lee Burbidge on October 08, 2011, 06:59:01 pm
i mentioned this on another thread a few weeks back and got shot down in flames...i was told to stop moaning, and if i cant adapt my business to compete with these types, then i should give up window cleaning!!!!

for what its worth...i agree with you....£3= a house is worse money than working in a supermarket with holiday/sicness pay....but if your signing on....then its nice pocket money!!!!

these types usually start in the spring and think wc is all good....but 90% of them pack up in the winter, due to a lack of balls to cope with cold hands lol

trouble is....by then, the damage is done to the rest of us :(

Hi James, they have these problems in some parts of Scotland. As part of this problem and other issues they decided to licence window cleaners. Do you feel that would work here. Would that help a situation like the one you are experincing?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: stuart mc on October 08, 2011, 07:00:34 pm
i mentioned this on another thread a few weeks back and got shot down in flames...i was told to stop moaning, and if i cant adapt my business to compete with these types, then i should give up window cleaning!!!!

for what its worth...i agree with you....£3= a house is worse money than working in a supermarket with holiday/sicness pay....but if your signing on....then its nice pocket money!!!!

these types usually start in the spring and think wc is all good....but 90% of them pack up in the winter, due to a lack of balls to cope with cold hands lol

trouble is....by then, the damage is done to the rest of us :(

Hi James, they have these problems in some parts of Scotland. As part of this problem and other issues they decided to licence window cleaners. Do you feel that would work here. Would that help a situation like the one you are experincing?
;D ;D well it made no odds in scotland did it :D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:01:01 pm
 ;D ;D ;D Here we go
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:01:41 pm
well to me its advertising who is going to tell someone about you for nothing i dont briung it up in conversation "iv got a great window cleaner you know"

and for the sake of spending 10-15 mins cleaning windows for free you get a regular customer aswell as the one your doing silly not too do the math
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:03:01 pm
Allright, I've failed to get my point across. No problem.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:03:50 pm
I agree with cozy, I wouldn't pay a canvaser and I don't want them canvassing for free either, the neighbour/friend/family member feels pressured to agree then before you know it they are PIA customers, much prefer the custom to come to me

if you only get one clean from them you lost 15 mins of your life worth the risk i pay people to stand in manchester giving out leaflets and for canvassers if a canvasser gets me a job he gets £5
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: stuart mc on October 08, 2011, 07:05:22 pm
I agree with cozy, I wouldn't pay a canvaser and I don't want them canvassing for free either, the neighbour/friend/family member feels pressured to agree then before you know it they are PIA customers, much prefer the custom to come to me

if you only get one clean from them you lost 15 mins of your life worth the risk i pay people to stand in manchester giving out leaflets and for canvassers if a canvasser gets me a job he gets £5

up to you mate I know a few do it good luck, not for me though ;)
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: geefree on October 08, 2011, 07:06:34 pm
I welcome them all, the dolies,the summer brigade etc....

Then when winter comes and they hide back in the hole they sprung from, all the work they did canvassing , then comes my way !... as custies ring me ,  stop me,..... and tell me the window cleaner has packed up.... keep them coming lads.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Lee Burbidge on October 08, 2011, 07:07:36 pm
That is true Gazza  :)
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:07:52 pm
Allright, I've failed to get my point across. No problem.

the free clean is just one off the round if your cleaning that customers house regular and they get you a customer i dont charge them for the next clean your going there anyway so i wouldnt pay someone only to do free cleans its just an extra on the round like i said its only if i get a regular if you charge £15 per clean one a month thats £180 if they get me a customer thats £360 less £15 for the free clean its only one free clean
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:09:35 pm
its true but you v got 3-4 months worth of work before there back asking for £3
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:12:03 pm
GEM, I've understood how it works mate. Did it myself when I was a new WC. But eventually, you get so much work that these mongs who clean for a few quid don't matter anymore and you don't need to work 15 minutes for free becaus you have more work than you can handle. Even more work starts coming at you when you get well known, so you haven't got time or interest to work ANYWHERE for any amount of minutes for ANYONE for free.

You're not there yet, judging by your complaint, but believe me. If you put enough custies in, you will get there.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: andyM on October 08, 2011, 07:18:58 pm
i think some one's been drinking (http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)(http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)(http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)   hahaha    ;D ;D ;D

Another Vodka and slimline tonic for Mr Daley please Dave  ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:20:27 pm
GEM, I've understood how it works mate. Did it myself when I was a new WC. But eventually, you get so much work that these mongs who clean for a few quid don't matter anymore and you don't need to work 15 minutes for free becaus you have more work than you can handle. Even more work starts coming at you when you get well known, so you haven't got time or interest to work ANYWHERE for any amount of minutes for ANYONE for free.

You're not there yet, judging by your complaint, but believe me. If you put enough custies in, you will get there.

i dont think you v got it mate if you wont spend 15 mins to earn a years worth of cleaning i dont know what your trying to say im not arsed about the tax dodgers i just brought it up to see what people think window cleaning isnt my main business it earns enough to warrant a new traffic sport window cleaning van so i think i am there and past it
ill take all work and still do free cleans aslong as they get me more why not ?

if your not cleaning for 15 mins free your paying for an advert id rather clean for free to advertise and you might have done it if it worked why stop
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 07:22:07 pm

also national insurance is paid when you like its voluntary to self employed they send you an invoice asking you to pay to qualify paye is paid by employers

since when was NI voluntary
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: bumper on October 08, 2011, 07:24:33 pm
I have 2 polish guys working for me in stockport  they do 100 terraced houses between them a day at 3 pound a house,i tell them if not in miss them and go next door and if it rains miss the whole street and still collect them coz you carnt tell you done them when it rains and if they say that bird mucks still on to say ohh sorry id didnt rub the glass hard enougth,i pay them 50 pound a day each and give them a flask of tea and coffe while im at home writing down which jobs ive applied for for dole purposes.i get 300 pound a week plus i get free housing benefit and  council taxs but have to pay for water rates so with dole money and my beer money comes to 1800 pound oh minus 500 pound in wages comes to 1300 pound a week taxs free

 :D bumper.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:25:30 pm
You're not bothered about the 3 quid mob anymore then?

OK, and you clean custies for free to get new lifetime custies, OK.

You're way ahead of getting wound up about the 3 quid mob and you have a new van and you are doing great and you just wanted to see what others thought and you are completely OK with cheap work for them and if they only charge 3 quid etc etc etc etc etc..................


Give us a shout when you get annoyed about something and see what we all think about it eh?

You can fool some of the people some of the time....... I was trying to help you mate

 Can't be arsed now. ???
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 07:25:55 pm
thats where i am going wrong bumper i am employing english and not polish
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:25:58 pm

also national insurance is paid when you like its voluntary to self employed they send you an invoice asking you to pay to qualify paye is paid by employers

since when was NI voluntary

since type in voluntary national insurance you only need to qualify for 30 years for your state pension does no one check what they have to pay ?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 07:27:02 pm
you have to pay ni,  i thnk you need to speak to your accountant
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:32:57 pm
You're not bothered about the 3 quid mob anymore then?

OK, and you clean custies for free to get new lifetime custies, OK.

You're way ahead of getting wound up about the 3 quid mob and you have a new van and you are doing great and you just wanted to see what others thought and you are completely OK with cheap work for them and if they only charge 3 quid etc etc etc etc etc..................


Give us a shout when you get annoyed about something and see what we all think about it eh?

You can fool some of the people some of the time....... I was trying to help you mate

 Can't be arsed now. ???

you v totally lost me how were you helping me ? what were you saying when iv got toom uch work stop offering deals ?????????? how often do sky tv offer you £40 to get a friend its basic advertising give someone incentive to get you work phone sky and tell them their wrong , if i have too much work i employ someone to do the work thats their round i lose money paying them but i have more room to expand then if their too busy i employ someone elso and so on this forum is all about what people think what did you think we were doing starting a lynch mob and i give ONE free clean for a new customer i think you v miss understood i dont clean the customers house for life for getting me a customer just ONE free clean
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:34:49 pm
Voluntary means no or little pension, read the small print. I recon you are nutter. One who doesn't even pay tax and certainly not NI. Your view of the rules are misty to say the least and you shout too much about thing's you know bugger all about.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf
well bugger me look at that
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:38:03 pm
gone quiet on the ni front ronnie
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 07:39:18 pm
i think there is a mix up between NI for self employed and voluntary NI
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Pope vader on October 08, 2011, 07:40:55 pm
my NI bill is only something like £120 year, not the £12 a week that is saying,  have you registered with HMRC as self employed
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:41:36 pm
I haven't started a lynch mob!! I was trying to motivate a bloke who was angry about te 3 quid gang. Must've been someone else eh? I mean, you're not worried about them. You have loads of work, so these wazzers can't effect you can they? You're huge and have brand new vehicles etc and a whole army of workers to clean your huge custie base, so you don't need any help do you mate?

You're not really bothered about dole cheats or anyone who cleans for 3 quid are you?

Sorry, I mis-understood what you posted. My fault. You're well in control are'nt you mate? Don't need any help or support do ya? Hope I grow up to be as good as that. Can I follow you on Facebook or twitter?? Would you send me a signed polo shirt? Have you got any tips about how to handle the 3 quid brigade?


 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: H S and Son on October 08, 2011, 07:46:49 pm
lol i dont need to cock fight about work i just completed a builders clean on burger king trafford centre pal  ;)

im mad at paying tax and guys ruining the trade for us

sorry you lost me


This place gets better and better  ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:48:25 pm
Don't take the mick Matt, he's done a builders clean on Trafford Center. !!!  ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:49:04 pm
I haven't started a lynch mob!! I was trying to motivate a bloke who was angry about te 3 quid gang. Must've been someone else eh? I mean, you're not worried about them. You have loads of work, so these wazzers can't effect you can they? You're huge and have brand new vehicles etc and a whole army of workers to clean your huge custie base, so you don't need any help do you mate?

You're not really bothered about dole cheats or anyone who cleans for 3 quid are you?

Sorry, I mis-understood what you posted. My fault. You're well in control are'nt you mate? Don't need any help or support do ya? Hope I grow up to be as good as that. Can I follow you on Facebook or twitter?? Would you send me a signed polo shirt? Have you got any tips about how to handle the 3 quid brigade?


 ;D ;D ;D ;D

lol calm down i thought it was me getting mad im no millionaire you started the slanging saying i wasnt there yet as though you were better than me !

iv just got my polos embroidered funnily enough want a fleece aswell  :P

look i dont want a row we just have different views on the customer advertising no hard feelings
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: H S and Son on October 08, 2011, 07:50:34 pm
Don't take the mick Matt, he's done a builders clean on Trafford Center. !!!  ;D

I spotted that ;0)

Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:51:17 pm
Don't take the mick Matt, he's done a builders clean on Trafford Center. !!!  ;D

lol did it for free too got me a new customer  :P
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 08, 2011, 07:51:28 pm
As I said, if you're established well enough, the 3 quid mob don't effect you. I don't give a toss anymore, because I don't know which bits are true and which bit are waffle. Good luck and all the best with your empire mate.

Laters  ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 08, 2011, 07:56:07 pm
the £3 mob affect everyone it has nothing to do with how well your doing because you could do better without them that was the whole point of this forum
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: David Kent @ KentKleen on October 09, 2011, 10:24:45 am
Big door and banging your head against it springs to mind! ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: mikecam on October 09, 2011, 11:19:48 am
i took an estate on because the cleaner had two scallys climbing ladders breaking tiles in roofs under windows he then turned up with poles trying to get them back waving them side to side and as for free enterprise its not free were paying the dole cheats to do it, go to poundland get a bucket and tools WOW im a window cleaner mum !!!

and who in the right mind would trapes about all day climbing walls over gates for £3 obviously not someone paying bills council tax £100 per month thats 33 houses before tax
and customers sometime dont have a choice because of the "its my round " idea F*ck that ill work anywhere and try someone stop me tell the guy in the chippy next time you see him get a uniform and try advertising stop whinging if a new guy takes his work

"HES OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT GOOD PAL"

Hey Gem, how much did it cost you to copyright/trademark your trading name and threaten anyone who uses it will get repercussions? (on your home page ;D )
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Ian Lancaster on October 09, 2011, 11:44:14 am
Voluntary means no or little pension, read the small print. I recon you are nutter. One who doesn't even pay tax and certainly not NI. Your view of the rules are misty to say the least and you shout too much about thing's you know bugger all about.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf
well bugger me look at that


Oh dear ::)

Voluntary contributions can only be paid by people who are NOT liable to pay other national insurance.

You can't elect to pay Voluntary Contributions if you are employed/self employed.
They are only for people who have missed making contributions while unemployed, or who are temporarily unemployed and want to maintain their contributions.

Also the self employed are not issued with tax codes as you stated earlier.  Your tax is calculated according to your profits in any tax year, as are your NI contributions.

I would strongly recommend that you consult an accountant before HMRC drop on you from a great height.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Mike_G on October 09, 2011, 12:30:26 pm
If he's only charging £3 per house perhaps he's not earning enough to pay tax


you pay tax no matter what you earn you claim it back at the end of the year like the rest of us hes charging £3 to stay off the radar he obviously hasnt got a real job because he would be doing it unless its a weekend thing then he definately is earning enough to pay tax as it is a second job

Dont think you do m8, everyone has a tax allowance of 5 grand or whatever it is, so if you earn less than the threshold you dont pay tax. Self employed would send a tax return and you then pay your tax on whatever your earnings are above the threshold, earn less than that you'll pay no tax
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Dave Willis on October 09, 2011, 12:34:40 pm
I'm looking forward to claiming my tax back at the end of the year. Didn't know about that.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Mike_G on October 09, 2011, 12:37:32 pm
Allowance for 2010-11 is £6475 so if you do not earn more than that you dont pay tax
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Mike_G on October 09, 2011, 12:49:19 pm
you pay tax no matter what you earn you claim it back at the end of the year like the rest of us
You don't pay tax whatever you earn, you have to reach a certain limit, and nor do you claim it back if you do.
Are you actually in business? You seem to have a vague view of it all and don't seem to know the facts too well to me. Also, national insurance is paid monthly and then 9% of any profit, did you know of this? you never mentioned it if you did. Which seem's strange.


sorry are you in Britain you declare to the inland revenue all of your earnings if yuou dont tell them or pay them how do they know if you cross it just on sheer good will haha  they issue you a tax code you pay tax to the revenue if you dont cross the tax code you get a rebate that is the system if you get a differnt one then your not in britain pal

also national insurance is paid when you like its voluntary to self employed they send you an invoice asking you to pay to qualify paye is paid by employers

You need to speak to an accountant pal. Perhaps you are worse than the £3 brigade you are raring about.

NI is not voluntary at all, you have to pay claas 2 NI if you are self employed  unless you are under 16, over 65 or earn less than £5315


look at at the link

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/intro/class2.htm
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Mike_G on October 09, 2011, 01:08:48 pm
Voluntary means no or little pension, read the small print. I recon you are nutter. One who doesn't even pay tax and certainly not NI. Your view of the rules are misty to say the least and you shout too much about thing's you know bugger all about.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf
well bugger me look at that

The voluntary bit is only if you have not paid the minimum 30 years worth of NI to qualify for a full state pension, its not a case of you do not pay NI if you do not want to.....it was, i think mainly introduced so women who take time off work to bring up children could make up their contributions so they could get full pensions

I'm sure there are people on here that know much more than I do on this subject so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: james51174 on October 09, 2011, 02:18:50 pm
i mentioned this on another thread a few weeks back and got shot down in flames...i was told to stop moaning, and if i cant adapt my business to compete with these types, then i should give up window cleaning!!!!

for what its worth...i agree with you....£3= a house is worse money than working in a supermarket with holiday/sicness pay....but if your signing on....then its nice pocket money!!!!

these types usually start in the spring and think wc is all good....but 90% of them pack up in the winter, due to a lack of balls to cope with cold hands lol

trouble is....by then, the damage is done to the rest of us :(

Hi James, they have these problems in some parts of Scotland. As part of this problem and other issues they decided to licence window cleaners. Do you feel that would work here. Would that help a situation like the one you are experincing?

Hi Lee

I think on paper it looks like a good idea...but unless there were people out regulating....or customers knew to ask to see a liscence...then it probably wouldnt work on those who are working for cash only

id go as far as to say that it would only serve to cost the majority of wc's that did pay tax and PL insurance etc...costing us even more to run a legitimate business

lets face it...for cash, there are still guys out there fitting gas apliances...that dont have corgi restration liscences

:(
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: james51174 on October 09, 2011, 02:27:29 pm
As I said, if you're established well enough, the 3 quid mob don't effect you.

Laters  ;D

we were established in 1973 and its effecting us in a big way

not me and my partner directly, cos as you say we have enough work to carry on regardless

but we used to have 3 full time sub contractors....over a space of roughly 5-10 years we have lost so much that we are down to 2 subbies

both of them are down to 2 days a week now

it has dented our profits hugely...as well as the upset of telling guys there is less and less work for them :(
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: cozy on October 09, 2011, 02:37:37 pm
James, when gobshyte GEM came on here shouting the odds about the 3 quid brigade he gave the impression that it was effecting his business by stealing his work directly. I tried o help and motivate him. Then he went "Hollyood" and told everyone he was a huge international firm with a brand new push bike etc etc.

Although there were enough guys on this thread trying to help, he just went off thumb sucking and posing. That's why I unloaded on the prat.

Over a bigger picture of window cleaning, the cheap 3 quid set ups will damage the business, but it doesn't have to damage a one man band or smaller firm so much if they can counter the effect of these 3 quid guys by putting more custies into your business. Do you see what I mean?

How was I to know that GEM is the biggest window cleaning company in the Manchester area with thousands of custies and multiple vehicles? I didn't realize I was talking to the Alan Sugar of window cleaning, that's why I said he shouldn't worry about those 3 quid guys. Do you see now what I meant?
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: David Kent @ KentKleen on October 09, 2011, 02:44:59 pm
I charged £3.00 to builders clean our Burger King!! :P   
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 09, 2011, 03:42:11 pm
James, when gobshyte GEM came on here shouting the odds about the 3 quid brigade he gave the impression that it was effecting his business by stealing his work directly. I tried o help and motivate him. Then he went "Hollyood" and told everyone he was a huge international firm with a brand new push bike etc etc.

Although there were enough guys on this thread trying to help, he just went off thumb sucking and posing. That's why I unloaded on the prat.

Over a bigger picture of window cleaning, the cheap 3 quid set ups will damage the business, but it doesn't have to damage a one man band or smaller firm so much if they can counter the effect of these 3 quid guys by putting more custies into your business. Do you see what I mean?

How was I to know that GEM is the biggest window cleaning company in the Manchester area with thousands of custies and multiple vehicles? I didn't realize I was talking to the Alan Sugar of window cleaning, that's why I said he shouldn't worry about those 3 quid guys. Do you see now what I meant?

cosy grow up mate pick your dummy up the only thing you unloaded was a rant about me cleaning houses for free you offered no advice what so ever and claimed you were massive ,you have so much work you dont need to give promotions and i was a small fry and "NOT THERE YET" so slander me all you like i dont give a s*it lol and no one sees what you mean ???? obviously if i get more customers these guys wont affect us but my point is if there not here there is more work ,
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 09, 2011, 03:43:33 pm
i took an estate on because the cleaner had two scallys climbing ladders breaking tiles in roofs under windows he then turned up with poles trying to get them back waving them side to side and as for free enterprise its not free were paying the dole cheats to do it, go to poundland get a bucket and tools WOW im a window cleaner mum !!!

and who in the right mind would trapes about all day climbing walls over gates for £3 obviously not someone paying bills council tax £100 per month thats 33 houses before tax
and customers sometime dont have a choice because of the "its my round " idea F*ck that ill work anywhere and try someone stop me tell the guy in the chippy next time you see him get a uniform and try advertising stop whinging if a new guy takes his work

"HES OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT GOOD PAL"

Hey Gem, how much did it cost you to copyright/trademark your trading name and threaten anyone who uses it will get repercussions? (on your home page ;D )

not much did it all myself about £220
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: GEMclean services on October 09, 2011, 03:56:23 pm
I charged £3.00 to builders clean our Burger King!! :P   

your too expensive lol ;D
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: james51174 on October 09, 2011, 05:16:07 pm
James, when gobshyte GEM came on here shouting the odds about the 3 quid brigade he gave the impression that it was effecting his business by stealing his work directly. I tried o help and motivate him. Then he went "Hollyood" and told everyone he was a huge international firm with a brand new push bike etc etc.

Although there were enough guys on this thread trying to help, he just went off thumb sucking and posing. That's why I unloaded on the prat.

Over a bigger picture of window cleaning, the cheap 3 quid set ups will damage the business, but it doesn't have to damage a one man band or smaller firm so much if they can counter the effect of these 3 quid guys by putting more custies into your business. Do you see what I mean?

How was I to know that GEM is the biggest window cleaning company in the Manchester area with thousands of custies and multiple vehicles? I didn't realize I was talking to the Alan Sugar of window cleaning, that's why I said he shouldn't worry about those 3 quid guys. Do you see now what I meant?

gottcha  ;)

when you wrote the words "if your established enough" i thought you meant everyone :)

no worries, i get what you mean now :)
Title: Re: window cleaners not paying tax
Post by: Richard Neal on October 09, 2011, 05:16:36 pm
I love this forum  :D