Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 01:43:01 pm

Title: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 01:43:01 pm
Noticed an interesting if not somewhat strange post earlier regarding the use of someone else's insurance documents and it left me wondering how many window cleaners trade without insurance.

We come across many people who take out our insurance and never pay for it, cos all they want is a document to show they have it so they can get paid,  leaving themselves and their customer's exposed to potential losses.

Just would be interested in what % of you are prepared to risk everything.

Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: DaveG on September 20, 2011, 01:47:12 pm
1  ;D

(Bumpers post was a joke Mark) :D
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: SB Cleaning on September 20, 2011, 01:48:31 pm
Yes i think you would be mad not to these days.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 01:51:11 pm
I wasn't sure about bumpers post. Didn't want to cast aspersions - you can never tell on here if someone is joking or not.  Think he may have started a row though.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Llaaww on September 20, 2011, 02:44:00 pm
Mark, what is the law with regards to trading without pli in place. I have seen a couple of threads that say it is not actually illegal.

I have always assumed that it was a legal requirement for any trader to have some.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Pope vader on September 20, 2011, 03:02:12 pm
a wc doesnt need insurance by law, but is handy to have
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 03:11:58 pm
ORI is correct, there is no legal requirement to have Public Liability Insurance if you work as a window cleaner.  There is a legal requirement to have Employers Liability Insurance if you employ anyone or use labour only sub contractors to do your work and that is then bought under a Combined Liability Insurance policy (public and employers liability together)

If you work as a sole trader with no other help then you don't legally need it.  Personally (and this may be controversial) but I think that anyone who works on someone else's property should be forced to have it by law.  It will reduce the number of cowboys out there and it will prevent unsuspecting members of the public losing out. 

My own mum and dad got done by a roofer who door knoked. He put new roof tiles on and bodged their perfectly good roof and did a runner. Days later it rained in and ruined their kitchen.   Good job he did a runner.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Tom White on September 20, 2011, 03:33:38 pm
I've a few jobs that I need to have PL for; they ask each year for my renewal too.

And when I'm asked to quote, I always make a point of saying that a Risk assessment, method statement and PL are required for their protection in the event of an accident.

I know for a fact that one of my customers (when looking for other quotes) said to a local window cleaner that she required RA/MS and public liability insurance.  ;D

It all helps.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: KS Cleaning on September 20, 2011, 04:43:17 pm
In Scotland you need PLI,without it the local council will not give you a window cleaning licence.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: bobby p on September 20, 2011, 04:48:37 pm
Burt Reynolds said he didnt believe in insurance ( in "Deliverance" )  and whats good enough for him was good enough for me ,when i was a lone wolf

However ,once i started employing lads i now have all the insurance in place
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Rick Davis on September 20, 2011, 04:56:22 pm
In Scotland you need PLI,without it the local council will not give you a window cleaning licence.
   

Interesting point . How much do they charge you for a Window cleaners licence.

Rickster
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Frankybadboy on September 20, 2011, 05:06:29 pm
yes for me.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: KS Cleaning on September 20, 2011, 05:15:16 pm
In Scotland you need PLI,without it the local council will not give you a window cleaning licence.
   

Interesting point . How much do they charge you for a Window cleaners licence.

Rickster
The cost of a licence varies between regions as it is the local council that sets the price,we are £90 for 1 year or £140 for 3 years,you need a license for employees too.If you have a licence it also means you have been vetted by the police which is reassuring for customers.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: richard jagger on September 20, 2011, 05:26:31 pm
I think more windies would have it if it were not for all the small print in these Insurance companies polices that I C  whittle there way out of truly covering you.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 05:36:47 pm
Wizkid,

Sounds like you have had a bad experience.  Not all insurance companies are the same, the one we use are excellent.  Give us try in the future, I would love to change your mind.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: mikecam on September 20, 2011, 07:31:33 pm
............should be forced to have it by law.  It will reduce the number of cowboys out there .........

And curiously in the motor insurance game where it is forced by law its had exactly the opposite effect. Its increased the number of cowboys !! Right from the accidents on purpose for whiplash claims, throught to the Insurance companies themselves working in cahoots to all bump premiums massivley, so much so the government is looking into it !!! Reduce cowboys , don't make me laugh !!!
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 08:33:40 pm
Not exactly sure of your point Mike. What I meant was that if public liability insurance was compulsory for window cleaners it would weed out those who don't care about their customers and leave more work for those who do.

Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Blue Frog Systems on September 20, 2011, 09:05:26 pm
I didnt in my first year ... but got it in my second
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: mci services on September 20, 2011, 09:05:51 pm
Not exactly sure of your point Mike. What I meant was that if public liability insurance was compulsory for window cleaners it would weed out those who don't care about their customers and leave more work for those who do.



mark as mentioned in Scotland you need p/l to get a license and that is compulsory by law, well in all but a few areas, and it does nothing to deter the cowboys as the home owner couldn't give a hoot as long as the price is cheap, ok that isn't always the case but it still drives prices down
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: mikecam on September 20, 2011, 09:16:47 pm
Not exactly sure of your point Mike. What I meant was that if public liability insurance was compulsory for window cleaners it would weed out those who don't care about their customers and leave more work for those who do.


it may well do Mark, i've no idea how though. I'd guarantee that premiums would go up if it was compulsory though, massivley. PPI, now there's a thing, everyones getting their money back !!! The cowboys are not always dressed in chaps and stetsons !!!
 You think everyone should have it by law and you sell it ? I personally think anyone with dirty windows should be fined by the environmental health !!!
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: wolfee101 on September 20, 2011, 09:40:15 pm
whats the most any windy has paid out for damage done to property?
how often have you damaged property and how long have you worked as a windy?
give us a l;ittle idea of risk
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 20, 2011, 10:40:43 pm
Wolfee,

I assume that's for me, that question? May be not. Anyway.

In the 9 years we have been doing this the biggest claim i have seen was for £70k. For damage on a new commercial build. All windows were scratched.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: wpclean on September 20, 2011, 11:18:27 pm
The sad fact is we have to pay extra for insurance for ambulance chasing, " where there is blame there is a claim " lying thieving, claim making, whiplash ( no proof needed ) companies who advertise on daytime tv because the percentage of people who make these claims are unemployed watching Jeremy Kyle and have come from a different time when an accident was considered just bad luck, and not an opportunity to profit !
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: bumper on September 21, 2011, 02:53:00 pm
right sorted  have a copy of insurance thanks,my mot is up shortley i need a bum mot ill pay £50. for one bumper ;)
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: jon shaw on September 21, 2011, 09:28:35 pm
i hired a car the other day £35 for weekend (picked up fri return mon)the excess was £600 to lower the excess to £100 cost £5 a day an extra £20
so the insurance premium @£5 a day x 365 days a year= £1825 for a £500 risk lol now thats a business!
if you shop around you can get the same cover for £50 a year
the risk to the underwriter is half that prob .....£25 a year? or about 07p a day :D
sorry but theres nothing on the tv tonight :-\
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: davids3511 on September 21, 2011, 09:48:39 pm
............should be forced to have it by law.  It will reduce the number of cowboys out there .........

And curiously in the motor insurance game where it is forced by law its had exactly the opposite effect. Its increased the number of cowboys !! Right from the accidents on purpose for whiplash claims, throught to the Insurance companies themselves working in cahoots to all bump premiums massivley, so much so the government is looking into it !!! Reduce cowboys , don't make me laugh !!!
There even ripping each other off, sounds very close to fraud to me ... http://www.am-online.com/news/2011/9/21/judge-slams-insurer-for-increased-cost-of-accident-repairs/29703/
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: davids3511 on September 21, 2011, 09:50:09 pm
whats the most any windy has paid out for damage done to property?
how often have you damaged property and how long have you worked as a windy?
give us a l;ittle idea of risk
4.5 Years smashed one window and paid £80.00 to have it replaced.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: H2GoKent on September 21, 2011, 10:07:33 pm
Yes for me always had it.

Had to claim once too. Excess was £250 which sounds steep but the claim was settled for £2812 so I got off lightly.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on September 22, 2011, 01:48:20 pm
Although i have PL i believe all insurance companies are the same only interested in taking your money and trying to get out of paying out.
Title: Re: How many CIU members have insurance?
Post by: Mark Farrimond on September 22, 2011, 02:42:18 pm
Have you formed this opinion based on experience or hearsay?

If an insurer hasn't paid a claim you have submitted it is normally for one reason, you didn't have the cover you thought you had. 

When arranging cover for you or your business make sure you receive confirmation of what you are covered for in writing, on what basis the premium is calculated and compare this to what you asked for.  Always deal with a specialist broker for your trade and never accept cover over the phone until you have received a quote either by email or by post, even if this is sent after you have verbally committed to cover.