Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ben Peters on September 12, 2011, 12:28:42 pm
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through a friend of a friend i heard that a round was for sale, the guy who owned the business died 2 years ago and now the daughter runs it but with her mother now falling very ill she hasnt the heed or time to run it and so wishes to sell...
its all commerical work hospitals, schools, hotels etc, with a turnover in 6 figures, it has 2 full time employees who work the round and from what im told just works like clockwork the 2 lads know what work has to be done and they just get on with it...
she is asking for around 60k so i asked to see profit and loss accounts for previous years and she says there isnt any that her father never kept any paperwork and just left it to the accountant to sort out year ends, wages etc, so i asked to see business bank account statements to see some evidence of accounts and she refused, i then said i would like to be able to contact some of the bigger contracts to see how they see the business and even talk to the employees adn she refused again...
what would you say or do here, do you think she has something to hide something shes not telling me, i was mad to buy it from the outlook but when started asking a few questions and her refusing to co operate its kinda put me off now..
so what do ya think my next move should be?
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Run as fast as possible ... No books no co-operation no year end accounts ..
Find a good canvasser lot cheaper than 60 grand
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doubt she will sell with that attitude, let it go to ruin and hope you pick up the work anyway.
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through a friend of a friend i heard that a round was for sale, the guy who owned the business died 2 years ago and now the daughter runs it but with her mother now falling very ill she hasnt the heed or time to run it and so wishes to sell...
its all commerical work hospitals, schools, hotels etc, with a turnover in 6 figures, it has 2 full time employees who work the round and from what im told just works like clockwork the 2 lads know what work has to be done and they just get on with it...
she is asking for around 60k so i asked to see profit and loss accounts for previous years and she says there isnt any that her father never kept any paperwork and just left it to the accountant to sort out year ends, wages etc, so i asked to see business bank account statements to see some evidence of accounts and she refused, i then said i would like to be able to contact some of the bigger contracts to see how they see the business and even talk to the employees adn she refused again...
what would you say or do here, do you think she has something to hide something shes not telling me, i was mad to buy it from the outlook but when started asking a few questions and her refusing to co operate its kinda put me off now..
so what do ya think my next move should be?
I would say it's not worth the risk.
It may be bona fide and simply that she doesn't trust you not to steal the contracts. But I'm sure there must be less worrying ways to spend £60k on your business.
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It always amazes me with those that advertise their rounds for sale, and then when you contact them do everything they can to not want to sell to you...
Like in this instance.
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Ive told her im very interested and if her accountant can piece together some sort of accountants, copy of contracts etc to back up claims (neither im sure can be very hard to do?) and even meet up with 1 contract contact im willing to do business but she has in doing any i dont think...
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She's right to be careful, because for all she knows you might be sniffing around with the intention of stealing the work. Having said that, you need to see certain information to satisfy yourself about the integrity and value of the business.
Maybe suggesting using a solicitor might be a way forward? I know it would cost more, but if you are serious about buying, it might be worth it.
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Hi Ben
If the work is in London or the South East, I would be interested in buying the work
I would be happy to pay you a finders fee for puting me in touch with her.
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mmm, ask for the name of the accountant as he should be able to verify what they are saying, by law they should keep records for 7 years, if they cant give you this run
if it has 2 lads working it and they do it all and the accountant does wages what are they actually doing that is hard work
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if i wanted to sell a round for 60k i would do everything i could to keep you intrested ,you have to see some numbers surely. VERY STRANGE !!!!!!! ??? ???
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Agree to sign a "Non disclosure" form to give her piece of mind.
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It's a tough one - and something we need to heed a lesson from - a lot of our stuff is in our heads and if our loved ones are to benefit from our round then we need to keep them in the loop.
Sounds like she is scared stiff of you (understandably) and that you are very suspicious of her (understandably).
Take her out for a coffee (if she is a looker "do lunch darling!" ;D) and reflect back to her what you think her worries are - say:
Look, I am really interested but if I were you I would be worried sick that someone was out to rip me off. How about we find someone we mutually trust (her accountant - if he's a real accountant and not some geezer she knows), say that you will both share paying him for an half an hour of his time where he is permitted to tell (on a non-disclosure basis) some detail of the business.
If that meeting works out then you both do the same with a solicitor (tell him you're looking for a package deal with an estimate of costs rather than an hourly rate) to iron out the details and draw up a payment agreement/handover agreement.
For a 60K deal it's worth costing each of you a few hundred quid in professional fees.
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Now - if the round is genuinely paying two full time staff and the daughter is drawing money too then by inference it has to be turning over 6K a month - so is it VAT registered?
If it isn't then are the staff part time? Is she making no money out of it? Is it really worth 60K?
Good Luck!
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mmm, ask for the name of the accountant as he should be able to verify what they are saying, by law they should keep records for 7 years, if they cant give you this run
if it has 2 lads working it and they do it all and the accountant does wages what are they actually doing that is hard work
hi
i agree it is inconceivable that her and the accoutant havnt got duplicate invoices and some sort of sale ledger.
if he is any good he should have a pand L account for previous years which should show accurately the profit in the business without disclosing the client list.
if she where ltd much of this core info would be a matter of public record and easily viewable for a fiver on the internet so whats the big secret.
john
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this has been round and round my head all week...i really would love to buy this round its just shes so cagey! i offered to meet in accountant she says whats the point there is no accounts or paperwork and wont show the business bank account statements just to show ingoings adn outgoings etc...
i have a meeting with her tomorrow and think ill just say listen if you are not willing to show me some sort of paperwork regarding the business i cant risk 60k on your word only with nothing at all to back that up...a take it or leave it situation!
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Why don't you tell her you are really interested but will be unable to secure funding unless you have some paperwork.
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sounds like a scam, buyer beware
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its all commerical work hospitals, schools, hotels etc, with a turnover in 6 figures, it has 2 full time employees who work the round and from what im told just works like clockwork the 2 lads know what work has to be done and they just get on with it...
Just two employees turn over 100,000 minimum, everything runs like clockwork, the two lads know what needs to be done and just get on with it!
Hmmmmmm....
Maybe I'm too sceptical, but I'd bee surprised.
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And the whole thing sound a bit suspect. My main experience is with websites (fairly small I admit...small 5 figures etc). The ones that give you all the details, even if they have no idea really about acc's etc turn out to be the genuine ones. The ones with lack of numbers to back up claims, dot-2-dots that don't make sense etc or the "to good to true" ones tend to be exactly that.