Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul Coleman on September 04, 2011, 10:17:58 am
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I am currently vanless - hopefully not for very long.
It went awry on Saturday. It looks like the start of the ageing process for Renault Trafics
It started with the key turning in the ignition far too easily. The van started at the end of the turn. Something didn't sound quite right - a low level whine (not from me :) ) . Anyway, I drove it a short distance. When I tried to re-start the engine, nothing, zilch, nada. The dash lights came on but it was dead. I had a look under the bonnet - not that I would learn anything from that - and there was a distinct smell of something having burnt out. Even one electric window is slightly ajar and can't close. Fortunately it is in an area that should be safe (hopefully).
It sounds like it might be expensive to fix. Any mechanical geniuses out there who may have a clue as to what is wrong pretty please?
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It's probably not, but worth a shot anyway-
My van once stopped starting, the ignition worked but the starter motor wouldn't, it just clicked.
It turned out to be the earth strap (thick black lead from battery to van body) which had broken.
There is an easy way to eliminate this though- put a jump lead from the negative battery terminal to earth (van body) & see if the van will start.
Good luck with it anyway.
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paul it could be the battery!!trust me the same thing happened to me!battery virtually exploded!burnt smell under the bonnet!!thought my electrics were blown!replaced battery and all was fine!!it was an old battery that your supposed to fill up with distilled water!id never topped it up and it had run dry ruining it!!
check the battery and replace if neccesary.
hopefully thats all it is!!
best wishes
dazmond
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get the rac out to it
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sorry missed in your post that the dashlights came on!itll be something electrical then!
sorry not much help!!
good luck with it!
dazmond
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sounds like your ignition barrel has gone. It has left your key in the start position and left your starter motor 'in' (engaged with your fly wheel) This will hve burnt your starter motor out.
so needed are=
1. new ignition barrel
2.starter motor.
IMO ;)
Shouldnt cost to much
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I had a similar thing happen to me and it was the actual key, do you have a spare? If you do try that one instead. I assume its one of those electronic fob-keys? When they play up all sorts of strange things happen
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sounds like your ignition barrel has gone. It has left your key in the start position and left your starter motor 'in' (engaged with your fly wheel) This will hve burnt your starter motor out.
so needed are=
1. new ignition barrel
2.starter motor.
IMO ;)
Shouldnt cost to much
+1
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I am a mechanical dunce - really ;D .
I do have a recovery service. Unfortunately, when it broke down, I didn't have their number on my mobile. I thought it was on there but I changed my phone a while ago and it appears that not all the info was transferred. It was one of the less well known companies and I couldn't remember the name. I am indoors with the paperwork and see that it's called Alps Road Rescue (arranged by Alexander Swan).
WinPro.
The van is about 10 miles from home so I'm not in a position to check your theory. However, might the key suddenly being able to fully turn in the barrel be inconsistent with what you've written? (Just asking as I've no idea).
Dazmond.
I replaced the battery at the start of 2010 (that freeze-up finally killed the old one). I think it's a maintenance free battery but can't check this as the van isn't with me.
Kentkleen and Mike_G
I'm inclined to go for Kentkleen's explanation. I had the spare key with me and that turned too easily as well.
Assuming that I need a new ignition barrel and a new starter motor. Not cheap but not as bad as I first feared.
Another question.
If I need a new barrel, does this mean I will need to get two new keys as well. They are the battery operated fob keys and cost about £160 per key. Apparently they can't be made up by a third party as the code readers are unable to read the full code. Or do they reprogram the existing keys. The existing keys are rough anyway as the plastic covers have long since come off so maybe I should replace them anyway.
Also, another reason for suspecting the ignition barrel is that there have been odd occasions when it felt like a key wasn't turning properly - though none in recent months. Also, recently it has sometimes felt that I had to exert slightly more force when withdrawing the key from the barrel.
So I'm thinking along the lines of new barrel, two new keys and a starter motor. Plus the labour for the garage to sort it (about 50 - £55 an hour) as I wouldn't know where to start. Renault parts don't come cheap either. How much? £1k? £800 £1,200? I'm thinking two keys - £320. Starter motor and ignition barrel - £300/£400?????? . Maybe 2-3 hours labour - total maybe £800 . Plus the VAT that I can't reclaim. Does this sound in the right ballpark area? Bear in mind it's a Renault Trafic.
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It's probably not, but worth a shot anyway-
My van once stopped starting, the ignition worked but the starter motor wouldn't, it just clicked.
It turned out to be the earth strap (thick black lead from battery to van body) which had broken.
There is an easy way to eliminate this though- put a jump lead from the negative battery terminal to earth (van body) & see if the van will start.
Good luck with it anyway.
Now I think of it that happened to a mate of mines transporter.
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I am a mechanical dunce - really ;D .
I do have a recovery service. Unfortunately, when it broke down, I didn't have their number on my mobile. I thought it was on there but I changed my phone a while ago and it appears that not all the info was transferred. It was one of the less well known companies and I couldn't remember the name. I am indoors with the paperwork and see that it's called Alps Road Rescue (arranged by Alexander Swan).
WinPro.
The van is about 10 miles from home so I'm not in a position to check your theory. However, might the key suddenly being able to fully turn in the barrel be inconsistent with what you've written? (Just asking as I've no idea).
Dazmond.
I replaced the battery at the start of 2010 (that freeze-up finally killed the old one). I think it's a maintenance free battery but can't check this as the van isn't with me.
Kentkleen and Mike_G
I'm inclined to go for Kentkleen's explanation. I had the spare key with me and that turned too easily as well.
Assuming that I need a new ignition barrel and a new starter motor. Not cheap but not as bad as I first feared.
Another question.
If I need a new barrel, does this mean I will need to get two new keys as well. They are the battery operated fob keys and cost about £160 per key. Apparently they can't be made up by a third party as the code readers are unable to read the full code. Or do they reprogram the existing keys. The existing keys are rough anyway as the plastic covers have long since come off so maybe I should replace them anyway.
Also, another reason for suspecting the ignition barrel is that there have been odd occasions when it felt like a key wasn't turning properly - though none in recent months. Also, recently it has sometimes felt that I had to exert slightly more force when withdrawing the key from the barrel.
So I'm thinking along the lines of new barrel, two new keys and a starter motor. Plus the labour for the garage to sort it (about 50 - £55 an hour) as I wouldn't know where to start. Renault parts don't come cheap either. How much? £1k? £800 £1,200? I'm thinking two keys - £320. Starter motor and ignition barrel - £300/£400?????? . Maybe 2-3 hours labour - total maybe £800 . Plus the VAT that I can't reclaim. Does this sound in the right ballpark area? Bear in mind it's a Renault Trafic.
Thats what happened on my Vito and it was the key. Once those fobs get little knicks on them they play up and do exactly what your van is doing. My money is on the key, but I am no expert! I sprayed a bit of wd40 on my key and it started the van so try that, dont ask me why or how that worked but it did, but it still played up but I got home, dont spray any down the ignition barrel tho....they dont like it apparently
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you can always leave the old key taped up near to the lock barrel, that will be close enough to override the immobilizer. ive seen a few transits like that,saves reprogramming new keys
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Kentkleen is right.
Starter motors may not be that expensive as you don't necessarily need a Renault branded one - trawl the net.
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It's probably not, but worth a shot anyway-
My van once stopped starting, the ignition worked but the starter motor wouldn't, it just clicked.
It turned out to be the earth strap (thick black lead from battery to van body) which had broken.
There is an easy way to eliminate this though- put a jump lead from the negative battery terminal to earth (van body) & see if the van will start.
Good luck with it anyway.
check this out first, it may be a long shot but it is a likely problem and easy to fix
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you can always leave the old key taped up near to the lock barrel, that will be close enough to override the immobilizer. ive seen a few transits like that,saves reprogramming new keys
That's a really clever idea and a good bit of lateral thinking.
My old P100 is pre-immobiliser and the last barrel and key change cost me about £10 and 30 mins of my time.
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Rough price from a motor disco shop is £100 priced one up last week for a vivaro(same as traffic), 3 models of starter and most expensive was 95+vat
Smell of burning when you lifted the bonnet points to the starter. Unless your keys where near your nose when you opened the bonnet!!
Hope you get sorted
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I'm no expert so please excuse my ignorance but why would a broken starter motor stop the electric window working?
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I'm no expert so please excuse my ignorance but why would a broken starter motor stop the electric window working?
it wouldn't
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I'm no expert so please excuse my ignorance but why would a broken starter motor stop the electric window working?
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Anyway, I will be getting the recovery/tow organised tomorrow. Couldn't be bothered with it on a Sunday as I will need to use some public transport. I may end up hiring a small van for a day or so and using backpack and barrels. See how it goes. If I can get sorted fairly quickly I may just have a couple of days off instead.
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why would you get a smell of burning then if its just a key fob? ;D
Hope it is just your key fob paul!!
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why would you get a smell of burning then if its just a key fob? ;D
Hope it is just your key fob paul!!
Good point too! Its a mystery.
One tip b4 you call the tow truck (unless its free on your breakdown cover?) go to the van and try to start it again, sometimes these things can be intermittent so you might get lucky and get the thing started
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why would you get a smell of burning then if its just a key fob? ;D
Hope it is just your key fob paul!!
Not the key fob. Both fobs did the same :) .
I'm going for starter motor and barrel as you stated earlier.
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why would you get a smell of burning then if its just a key fob? ;D
Hope it is just your key fob paul!!
Good point too! Its a mystery.
One tip b4 you call the tow truck (unless its free on your breakdown cover?) go to the van and try to start it again, sometimes these things can be intermittent so you might get lucky and get the thing started
I will return to the van before calling them as I might not be covered for the breakdown if they realise I left it for two days. I believe it's a free tow. Will check first though. I will drive it back if it starts (I don't think it will) as it would be a lot less hassle.
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yeah I would back up the ignition barrel + starter motor theory.
does sound like the starter solenoid is burnt out.
should be a cheap fix, ignition barrel from breakers, rebuilt starter motor normally £20 to £30
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Here's the latest on the saga of the broken van.
I organised its recovery today and it's now at a garage across town from me. Renault, in their infinite wisdom, have quoted 5 - 10 days to get the new ignition barrel to the garage. I think that's pretty disgraceful really - though I do appreciate that it has to be compatible with the current vehicle coding/keys and I've no idea of what's involved. So ignition barrel and starter motor is the initial diagnosis prior to the garage having a more detailed look. Obviously the starter motor can't be replaced prior to the barrel because it would probably result in another burn out.
As for the window becoming non-operational. Ignore that. That was me being silly. I found out that it works perfectly if the ignition key is only turned half way.
I guess I will rent a small van for a few days. I have enough contaINERS FOR 225 LITRES and a backpack to work from. Also I have a telescopic ladder if needed - though I would probably defer any ladder work until I get my van back. Hardly ideal but at least I can earn.
I think it's ridiculous that Renault's slowness will cost me far more than the parts and labour. It sounds like the parts will be a lot less than I originally guessed and the garage will be getting me a non Renault starter motor.
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Paul, why don't you use someone like http://www.1stchoice.co.uk/ They will contact all their suppliers who will contact you directly with offers of replacement parts usually delivered next day. As far as I know the barrel can be replaced very easily and if you leave your old key on the ring with the new key you won't have any problems with the immobilser.
The gear will be second user but I bet you would have it by wednesday and at a fraction of the price renault will charge you.
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I guess I will rent a small van for a few days. I have enough contaINERS FOR 225 LITRES and a backpack to work from. Also I have a telescopic ladder if needed - though I would probably defer any ladder work until I get my van back. Hardly ideal but at least I can earn.
At least that is halfway to being acceptable considering the circumstances.
I guess the fact that this week isn't going to be a full week due to the weather might help in some form of consolation as well.
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Paul, why don't you use someone like http://www.1stchoice.co.uk/ They will contact all their suppliers who will contact you directly with offers of replacement parts usually delivered next day. As far as I know the barrel can be replaced very easily and if you leave your old key on the ring with the new key you won't have any problems with the immobilser.
The gear will be second user but I bet you would have it by wednesday and at a fraction of the price renault will charge you.
Thanks for the thought.
I have made my arrangements now though. Sometimes I suppose it's easier to pay more and just let someone else sort it out. The hire van is ordered. The barrel has been ordered. Also, I will preobably want to sell the van one day. It will be about 11 years old by then so won't be worth much. If vI tell the buyer that they have to mess around with keys etc., it might make an awkward sale into an impossible one. Therefore, it could turn out to be a false economy. I don't want to go to the expense of van replacement until I have paid off an existing personal loan (early in 2014).