Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Russ Chadd on August 29, 2011, 10:31:29 am
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Ok... as many of you on here are aware of these two great machines i need some honest feedback please!
I am on a budget like alot of people on here... sure if i had the work to quickly pay off a TM there would be no question what my choice of machine would be.. however im not quite at that stage yet so i am looking for a porty with high flow and high lift which will give me similar performance to an entry level TM.
I have a really good idea of utilising the power of my small hot water pressure washer which can supply up to 90 deg C of water at a steady 400psi, this would sit on the van next to either the above machine, this would in fact save using the machines on board pump when used on the van.
Here is an example of what i mean...
http://youtu.be/hqPMMR-9rDU (http://youtu.be/hqPMMR-9rDU)
So here is the question... which of the two porty's mentioned would be the right choice if you were me?
Thanks
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I think it's far too early to pose this question. You'd need somebody to have gone over both machines with a fine tooth comb.
I would obviously have to say Jaguar, because I own and use one.
The performance is quite simply, amazing...
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Thanks Colin, your input is much appreciated... maybe what this forum needs is a review section, where independent working carpet cleaners get to try stuff out and give their honest and un biased opinions?
This would help people like me who is in the market for some new equipment.
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your mistaken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i believe its 800psi!!!!! ;D
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Sold you the jaguar though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 What a salesman!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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yep, just checked 0-800psi!!!! Colin you really have to start reading instead of just looking at the pictures!!! lol ;D
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It's 800psi Colin, mines coming Thursday ;D
Shaun
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Think your right with the 800 psi,s might be ordering one too ;)
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800 psi, hope youve got a good bucket boy
Mark
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Hi
Good point was wondering that, dont you just burn though loads of water
Oliver Rise & Shine Cleaning
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Have a look at Airflex . I have tried the trial version with remote control system with autofill and automatic waste tank emptying system.
I've been very impressed.
Who wants to keep filling and emptying a machine?
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Any wiser ????
Most posts about machines are just opinions but on this thread you have some experienced and knowledgable people who've " walked the walk " and used a variety of machines so their opinions are worth heeding.
Your idea has passed through many carpet cleaner's minds and I recently used a pairing of an electric T/M for vacuum paired with portable that had a 1000 psi pump.
Most I ever used / needed was just over 500 psi and in most cases under 300 psi.
I no longer have the T/M and am about to put the portable on e'bay as I only need a smallish portable for upholstery work.
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The opinions are very much welcome as i am a firm believer in reviews on forums are nearly always going to be accurate rather that the info on the distributors web site.There is nothing like real people getting hands on with the products and using them in real life scenarios.
I think that a machine capable of pushing out a maximum pressure of 800psi would only ever work at around 250 - 400 psi for carpets... i suppose its better to have a pump working at half pressure than a 400psi pump running flat out.
So you guys who have Airflex turbo's... what are they like when you leave them on the van and run out 100' of hose? whats the vacuum like at the wand?
I currently use a steem pro which to be honest is a good machine for what it is, for me to step up to either an Airflex or Jag would i see a big improvement in performance?
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No need anymore for a bucket boy with the Jaguar, autofill and dump come as standard. More than happy with mine. Cannot comment on the Airflex as I have no experience of that make.
At one stage I would have liked to have a truckmount but could'nt afford the price so sayed with portables. Now years later, and I am not boasting but I could buy a fleet of truckmounts . However I am happy to stay with portables as they have advanced so much in the past few years. As I live hundreds of miles away from any tm dealer servicing would be a problem anyway.
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Russ
Definatly yes!
Whichever you decide to choose you'll see a huge improvement. Both the Airflex & Jaguar have their strong & not so strong points, it just up to you which one fits your criteria.
My son bought 2 remotes for his Jaguar from Maplin for about £20 & he liked its simplicity. As it's being run from the back of his people carrier height was an issue & the fact that the switches are all on front was a big plus, but equally the Airflex looks nice & big (big as in industrial) & seems just as impressive.
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No need anymore for a bucket boy with the Jaguar, autofill and dump come as standard. More than happy with mine. Cannot comment on the Airflex as I have no experience of that make.
At one stage I would have liked to have a truckmount but could'nt afford the price so sayed with portables. Now years later, and I am not boasting but I could buy a fleet of truckmounts . However I am happy to stay with portables as they have advanced so much in the past few years. As I live hundreds of miles away from any tm dealer servicing would be a problem anyway.
Thanks Fintan
So how longs are your hoses? do you tend to keep the machine on the van and run it off a seperate fresh water tank? (how big is it and whats the average consumption for your average 2 bed house)
Do you run some hose from the auto dump into a sewer drain or do you have a waste tank?
Cheers
Russ
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Russ, I use one lenght of 50 ft 2inch hose which is long enough for most domestic houses. I also carry two lenghts of 25 ft hose, sometimes have to attach one extra length but very rarely need the final length. I could easily keep the machine on the van but I normally sit it just outside the customers door. I run a hose directly from the customers tap to the machine, this keeps filling the solution tank as it is being used. As the machine is constantly filling and emptying as you work you don't really worry about how much water you are using, adequate to flush the carpet well and not too much so as to leave it overwet (although the powerful vac's will take care of that anyway). I run a lenght of hose from the auto dump out to the nearest sewer drain or gulley or sometimes out on the grass. Do not have a waste tank but I understand this is the law in some places but not where I operate.
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Thanks Fintan
This is beginning to make sense now... would be great to see these machine in a side by side demo!, so what do you do about hot water then? did you have a look at the video link at the begining of the thread? do you think this could work ok with your machine?
I have just been looking at the "perfect heat" system on the CFR website... looks like a good idea to pre heat the water before it reaches the main heat exchanger, only a matter of time before someone makes a similar system which can be retro fitted !
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50 ft does 90% of my jobs and i have never needed 100ft yet used 75% sometimes and no noticeable loss of suction with 2inch hose i use the Airflex turbo, dont bother leaving on the van as its quite easy to unload and leave outside the house never take it inside though no need.
The Airflex storm and Jaguar are so new that you will not get a review of both alongside each other. so you will get each persons own experience of the machine they have, i would be wary of anyone saying that the Jaguar is better that the Airflex or vice versa unless someone has both and has used them both in the real world.
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That's a fair comment James, usually 50' is fine to cover the downstairs area but i have found that its not quite enough to reach all over an average size house and that's why i want to go 100'.
The auto fill and dump features make either machine a good choice on or out of the van, its a ball ache having to down tools every time you want to empty or fill up.
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If you are using the pressure washer as your pump and heater , then you only need your extractor to be the dirty tank and vacuum.
Why not used any old battered up extractor and fit 2x new super duper vacs as fitted to the Jaguar or Airflex turbo , at about £100 each?
Then fit a pump out system , fit it to the extractor and you will have a machine with Jag performance , plus more heat and psi if you want it , plus a pressure washer. for around half the jag /airflex cost.
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Would the body on an old machine cope with 2 x 6.6's though Jason? Have you actually used a machine with these 2 vacs in it? You might be surprised at just how powerful they are....
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I dont know its just an idea.
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we have an Airflex turbo with a 800psi pump, we have used 100ft (50ft of 2" and 50ft 1/2") of hose many times and have not noticed that much loss of vac power, infact its got more vac power at 125ft of hose than my Ninjas at 25ft, the 800psi pump is more than enough for all jobs, we do carpets at 150 - 250psi max and hard floors at 300 - 700psi and we are realy impressed with the performance and glad we went for the Airflex, have used water tank on van but not to bothered about filling part way through a jobs, the build quality and look of machine is first class and would recommend it to anyone, the magma heater is an invaluble tool and well worth having as the extra heat cuts thro black top and grease of dirty commercial jobs
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This is all good feedback guys keep it coming!!
Steve, does the Airflex turbo have an auto dumping option? i understand that it can auto feed from a fresh water tank and its designed to stay on the van, however there's not much point to having a machine with external water feed if you cant dump it as you extract?
Jason, you are def on my wave length... however an old dog of an extractor with the new 6.6 motors may not stay on the van for every job and will require me to take indoors which might be a little embarrassing even if i dress it up with go faster stripes!
The hot pressure washer works very well though as a constant source of hot water at a reasonable pressure.
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not got the auto dump at the moment but cleansmart are having the machine back soon for auto dump and remote to be fitted, the good thing is that the machine can be added to, we looked at all options available before we chose the airflex, and the airflex was the most flexable alround machine for our needs, and we are very happy with our choice, i have used many machines in 21 years of cleaning and this is the best portable for power flexablity and build that i have used, i loved the ninja but its no comparison and the service from cleansmart is far better than Ashbys.
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Russ
It might be possible to have a socket on the extractor to power the p/w as you are not using the pump then you only need 2 leads from the house
Jim
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Does this machine require 2 feeds then? 1 for the vacs and 1 for the pump? christ! what does it draw in terms of watts???
???
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Yes all 3 vac portys and 6.6s require 2 leads and if you like heat then thats 3 plugs
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Hi Guys
I was speaking to one of the manufacturers and he was saying they are waiting to see how the new vacs work out in the field.
Cheers
Doug
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Yes all 3 vac portys and 6.6s require 2 leads and if you like heat then thats 3 plugs
Not necessarily the case... My Advance has a rocker switch which only allows either the 3rd vac, or 3kw heater to run, and not both...
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colin
you cant run three vacs plus heater thats why your heater cuts out and if you then want heat you either have to turn a vac off or plug in a inline heater
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colin
you cant run three vacs plus heater thats why your heater cuts out and if you then want heat you either have to turn a vac off or plug in a inline heater
I know...
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Colin
Hows your new toy
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Shaun,
Have you got your machine yet?
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oh yes
Doing a pub tonight with it, don't usually do night work but this one was pleading for me an old customer who has gone into the pub trade only trouble is that it's in a built up area so need to keep the noise down, asked me if I wanted paying in beer!!! that's like being paid in Lira to me so taking the money.
Shaun
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Hi Doug
I too heard a not dis-similar story from one manufacturer/ supplier.
He was honest enough to say that one particular UK manufacturer keeps running stocks from the U.S dry just to fill the orders & that both Lamb & Pump Tec were (not sure if they still are) struggling to keep up.
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Motor hype and blurb aside ....
The Airflex looks like the superior machine from a design /feature/Ergonomic point of view .
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Shaun,
How is the new machine/ Was it any good on the pub?
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Hello again everyone...
So i started this thread originally looking at either a Storm or a Jag... well i now have neither machine!
I decided to purchase a nearly new airflex turbo as it was available for a very good price, Mat at Cleansmart modified the machine with a auto pump out feature.
Today i cleaned a lounge carpet using my new setup :
Aiflex turbo
120ltr fresh water tank
100ft vac and sol hoses
CFR wonder wand
And...
Zeta pressure washer providing 500psi of boiling hot water.
Some of you may of seen my little hot water pressure washer in action some time ago in another thread.
I cant tell you how well this worked today! turned up at the customers house and attached their water supply to the zeta and in less than 60 seconds i had boiling hot water at the wand!
I finished the job in a fraction of the time it would of taken me with my steempro machine.
Pictures to follow for those of you who are interested! :)
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Russ,
Do you think the heat had a dramatic effect on the cleaning result?
::hides in corner::
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Hi Ash
Who knows? all i can say is that all the time the Airflex is truck mounted i can use the zeta which means i have temperature control from 0 - 90deg C and i am using the pump on the zeta which is designed to run at up to 1750 psi thus saving wear and tear on the airflex.
And i haven't got to bugger about with inline electric heaters ;D
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Russ
How many power leads did you run
Jim
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Hopefully I'll be running a Propane water heater as of tomorrow... Providing the thing turns up... :)
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Nice thinking outside the box ...
can you get the pressure lower than 500
was the zeta the lowest priced diesel heat exchanger washer you came across ...
colin day ... Little giant ?
wondered why they are not used more over here ... is bottled propane expensive here compared to the states perhaps ?
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is bottled propane expensive here compared to the states perhaps ?
The stuff ain't cheap. I have static caravans which use the stuff and lately it's been around £35 for the 19kg bottle
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Nice thinking outside the box ...
can you get the pressure lower than 500
was the zeta the lowest priced diesel heat exchanger washer you came across ...
colin day ... Little giant ?
wondered why they are not used more over here ... is bottled propane expensive here compared to the states perhaps ?
You can lower the pressure as low as 250 psi, really depends on what jets you have on your wand, the zeta is really nice because its compact and it can run on diesel, bio diesel, heating oil.
i run two extension leads:
The first runs vacs 1 and 2
the second runs the zeta and vac 3
Plus... it costs about £1000, now thats a grand for a really good pump which will out perform and last longer than most pumps in a portable, and you get a very efficient heat exchanger.
Plus... you can use it for washing your van... steam cleaning engines... hard surface cleaning... its pretty versatile!
I have now included some pics just to show how i have installed the machines into my van, its a project which is no way finished but it works...
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Hopefully I'll be running a Propane water heater as of tomorrow... Providing the thing turns up... :)
Didn't turn up :-\
I'm not sure how much gas it'll guzzle to be honest.
I like the idea of the Zeta.
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Hopefully I'll be running a Propane water heater as of tomorrow... Providing the thing turns up... :)
Didn't turn up :-\
I'm not sure how much gas it'll guzzle to be honest.
I like the idea of the Zeta.
Hi Colin
Check this out...
http://youtu.be/lQx_h0XL-hw (http://youtu.be/lQx_h0XL-hw)
The Zeta has a 5ltr fuel tank and uses approx 3 ltrs of diesel per hour, that's running the burner constantly for an hour which is impossible due to the thermostat cutting out at 90 deg C.
With using propane your running costs will almost certainly be higher, plus you are still using your portables pump system.
How much is the propane system? The Zeta is £899.99 + VAT and that comes with a hose and lance for washing the van!
My machine runs on red diesel, bio diesel, heating oil, paraffin.....
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Nice set up.
Makes an excellent weeder that! ;D
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On the zeta ... if you are set to minimum pressure/flow
you have dual output connections ... if you fit a regulator to one side with a hose flowing back to the water tank ... and connect the wand to the other output , would that allow you to adjust pressure below 250 ... ??
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On the zeta ... if you are set to minimum pressure/flow
you have dual output connections ... if you fit a regulator to one side with a hose flowing back to the water tank ... and connect the wand to the other output , would that allow you to adjust pressure below 250 ... ??
I have duel outputs for exactly that purpose, you can crack open the output valve so you can return hot water back to the tank.you can also use this to fill your pump sprayers with hotwater which is handy if using powdered pre spray chemicals.
You only need to bleed off a little to lower the pressure to 250 psi... ideal for cleaning upholstery.
The Zeta has a flow switch which activates the diesel solenoid, if there isnt enough output flow the burner wont fire up.
This return pipe to the water tank is the best way to lower the pressure and still have the burner working.
There is a possibility that the flow switch may have some adjustment... will look into that.
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john yes, but you would be preheating the water..... which after a while would become to hot for the pump, but that's what i do to control the psi and heat spikes with my heater.
Russ alter the position of the regulator to 45degrees instead of vertical
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john yes, but you would be preheating the water..... which after a while would become to hot for the pump, but that's what i do to control the psi and heat spikes with my heater.
Russ alter the position of the regulator to 45degrees instead of vertical
Hi Mike
As you can see i am not returning water back to the tank for this demo so the regulator wasn't in operation as i would be quite happy to use the wand at 450 psi for carpets.
Like i said i will be looking at adjusting the flow switch on the machine so i can get lower pressures with heat.
Having a second output is dead handy for hot running water !