Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on August 23, 2011, 07:13:54 pm
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I had to clean a low profile carpet in a coffee shop it was covered in spillages and had never been cleaned before i decided to spray some M Power and bonnet clean it to see what the results were and if needed HWE it.
After using my rotary it looked ok not all the spots and stains had come out but i was not convinced that extraction would not improve it, well the water that came out after extraction was the filthiest i have ever seen, it was like ink and the carpet looked much better, am i doing something wrong as i know that some on here swear by this method i have yet to achieve a result i was happy with unless it is very lite soiling, i am doing another job soon where i got my first call back it was a low profile that i HWE and a coffee stain wicked back i want to bonnet clean it this time but want it to look clean as well.
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Bear in mind my limited experience with bonnetting but I thought Fusion Clean would have been the solution to use from Solutions rather than M Power. In the act of bonnetting the M Power you were probably just agitating it (and giving some good dwell time) hence the good results with the later extraction.
Chris
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james, as far as i'm concerned, bonneting is a maintenance clean, done on a regular basis to keep the carpet looking okay after it has been professionally hot water extracted.
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The guy i brought the rotary equipment from who was packing up after many years just using this method said in his experience that M Power was the best product he had found, he gave me some Fusion clean that he had left over after trying it and i compared the results between M Power and Fusion clean and the results were the same, fusion clean had a nice smell though
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With bonneting you are only going to remove a limited amount of soil basically what come into contact with the bonnet.
I do bonnet on commercial jobs but only after extraction. I have tried for years to achieve results that I am happy with just by bonneting but the closest has been with texatherm, but still cannot get the same result as hwe then bonnet.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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Guy's bonneting is like any other facet of this industry if you work long and hard enough you'll get there in the end its a matter of playing with the products and finding the ones that work for you.
There is a trade off though?
When you get good at it you begin to wander why you spent thousands of pounds on truckmouted equipement!!!!!!!!!
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Try Chemspec Roto Brite II. I believe it bonnet cleans and can remove coffee stains in the process.
Jamie from CSUK should be able to add more on that one.
Linds
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so does m power if you do not try to mix it too strong, and leave it to dwell a short while (at least 20 mins)
I agree with Dave, I get very very good results with bonneting, and use all solutions stuff eg fusion clean, hd and m power.
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There is no doubt that LM works in certain circumstances, but no means all, the trick is knowing where to use it where not to, the case in point seems to point to the latter.
Simon
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That is a very fair assesment Major.
Are you mellowing a smidgen in your dotage ;D ;D
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james, as far as i'm concerned, bonneting is a maintenance clean, done on a regular basis to keep the carpet looking okay after it has been professionally hot water extracted.
Well said Derek ;)
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This could turn into a whole nights debate!
All I can say is I can buy signwriting brushess at my local art shop but this does'nt make me a signwriter.
Conversley owning a ratory does not make me a good padder as I said earlier it takes time and a lot of effert to get good at it.
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Hector,
Not at all ;D
There have always been a variety of methods of cleaning carpets, LM is only one of them, but it's knowing which method to use in different circumstances.
I agree with Derek's statement because in most circumstances extraction cleaning produces the most thorough result.
Simon
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Dave,
Not matter how good a padded you are, LM still has it's limitations and that is where people using only LM come unstuck. The majority have LM as one of many ways of getting a carpet clean.
Simon
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Your leaving out the most important part here Simon!
a, What the customers looking for
b, What they are prepared to pay
Most of the time the commercial client is only looking for a clean carpet, wants it to dry quick and don't want to spend much.
The domestic market is a whole different ball game here it can be any method we have at our disposal.
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I would like to get good at padding but as I have said before the method that most impresses me is the texatherm.
Nothing I have seen comes close but in reality you can only clean about 6 sq mtrs with a pad. I only have about 30 pads so to tackle large jobs you have to go to the trouble of rinsing out the pads in between cleaning. If I was that convinced that it would give better results than hwe I would happily invest more into the pads. So it is just easier for me to start up the truckmount then put the bonnet over afterwards.
Peter
[url]www.carpetcleanercardiff.com][url][url]www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://[url)[/url][/url]
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In my opinion you really need an encapsulating product to get best results from bonnet cleaning. Been doing it 17+ years now. Current favourite is Rotobrite 2.
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in reality you can only clean about 6 sq mtrs with a pad
In what kind of environment/carpet type?
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Peter I do not doubt your ability we all know that HWE is far far better than pad cleaning but as Simon say’s there is a time and place for the pad system and not all carpet responds to padding. It’s having the experience to know when and what to use when quoting the work. Most on here will talk about padding being a maintenance system I have padded carpets that have been very dirty and yes the job has turned into a maintenance job thank you very much. Had I of HWE in the first place these jobs would have been annual jobs by annual at best but because I padded they turned into quarterly jobs. Again as I have always said it’s all about what the customers looking for. For many years I tried to sell what I thought everyone needed instead of listening to what they wanted. I tell you its far easier selling something they want rather than what I think they need!
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Your leaving out the most important part here Simon!
a, What the customers looking for
b, What they are prepared to pay
Most of the time the commercial client is only looking for a clean carpet, wants it to dry quick and don't want to spend much.
The domestic market is a whole different ball game here it can be any method we
have at our disposal.
Agree with that Dave, but that kind of makes my point. If you're looking to serve the whole market and not just commercial offices with low profile carpets then you have to have a number of methods at your disposal to cope with a far wider variety of carpets and soil conditions.
Simon
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Sorry Simon am I missing the point here ????? ::) ::)
I thought this was a forum for professional carpet cleaners who all have different methods of cleaning at their disposal. Or am I still in the dark ages with the wet brigade.
:-[
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I had to clean a low profile carpet in a coffee shop it was covered in spillages and had never been cleaned before i decided to spray some M Power and bonnet clean it to see what the results were and if needed HWE it.
After using my rotary it looked ok not all the spots and stains had come out but i was not convinced that extraction would not improve it, well the water that came out after extraction was the filthiest i have ever seen, it was like ink and the carpet looked much better, am i doing something wrong as i know that some on here swear by this method i have yet to achieve a result i was happy with unless it is very lite soiling, i am doing another job soon where i got my first call back it was a low profile that i HWE and a coffee stain wicked back i want to bonnet clean it this time but want it to look clean as well.
James
We've never had great results with M power.
Some people do, but we prefer other solutions.
Did you pre vac?
We prespray with say pureclean, depending on depth of dirt, agitate and then dwell for a minimum of 10 minutes. Then hot pad the area. Dependant on condition we may pad twice.
Never had wick back and never had a call back commercial or domestic. :)
Keep trying with it, change your pre spray, it'll come right for you one day :)
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Dave
I have done maintenance cleans on a lot of carpets that we have initially done deep cleans on. In my experience the majority of customers in the commercial sector come to somebody new because they are unhappy with the results that they have had in the past. If they were happy with the service they would not be contacting me.
I get quite a few jobs a year from customers who are contacting us for quotes for replacement flooring, I am going into offices where they have contract products that should have a lifespan of 10 - 15 years but are totally trashed from bad cleaning practices after on a few years. Most of the time their contract cleaning company will hire machines and make a complete balls up of the carpet.
These become the most valuable customers because you not only save them a lot of money and disruption, it gives you the opportunity to demonstrate that not all carpet cleaners are of the same ability..
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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Sorry Simon am I missing the point here ????? ::) ::)
I thought this was a forum for professional carpet cleaners who all have different methods of cleaning at their disposal. Or am I still in the dark ages with the wet brigade.
:-[
You been on the bottle, Dave? ;D ;D
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Peter the same can be said in many trades its the man on the end of the tool not the tool on the end of the man ;D
You know when the job has gone pete tong the clue is in when the cheque fail to arrive but by then you know its not quite right,.
I can quote many stories of clients who have used cleaner with state of the art equipement only to find their furniture has gone 2 shades lighter with colour loss through using high ph's. the lists go on and on.
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Me on the bottle Simon not a drop has passed my lips in over 12 months.
I think it may be the o2 dongle I'm on
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Helen, yes i did pre vac.
What is the equivalent of Powerburst in bonnet cleaning. we use M Power on carpets as its safe etc but when we come across a trashed carpet we get out the big guns. well the low profile commercial are usually synthetics what can we bonnet clean them with that have the same effect as powerburst.
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You can bonnet clean with powerburst. You just have to rinse it out afterwards ;D
I wouldn't reach for M-Power as my main bonneting solution, maybe if there was an odour or contamination issue I would. Have you tried HD microsplitter? With some oxidiser added that would be your "powerburst" for bonneting. Give the fusion clean another go too, on a few different carpets.
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I use Surround Free Super concentrate (diluted 60:1). Took 2 days to clean a school's carpets and used about 2 litres of solution only. Here is a video of me doing it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx1xxZF7Z4A
The results were terrific. I did the school back in December last year so they must have been happy with the results the first time around.
This system prevents wickback with HWE. I did a nursery room where the carpet was absolutely disgusting but it came up like a new pin! The staff room wasn't much better with dozens of coffee stains but again came up sensational!
James what kind of pads were you using? You need the heavy duty ones with aggitation strips to do really bad carpets...
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Can't argue with that. What kind of rates are you charging for it?
I like Encap better than other LM methods.
Simon
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The school job took 2 days but they were looooooooooonnnnnggggggg days! Saying that the most physical part was the vacuuming. I find bonneting a piece of cake....far easier than hwe. The rotary does all the work for you. I just stuck my ipod on and listened to a couple of audio books! Charged £1000 for the 2 days work. Some may have charged more but I was happy with that especially these days!
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I just use the regular pads when i got the machine it came with about 30 of them so i have not brought any others especially as they are £30 :o
have not done much LM i may try the encapsulation method you suggested next time thank for that.
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Simon if you are down Southampton in the next few weeks or so, I can show you the Hector way of LM cleaning with Mpower or HD if you like.
Showed the Bunny boiler (gary j) and he was gob smacked at the speed and the high standard of the clean, and I am sure you would be too.
Once in a lifetime offer ;D ;D ;D
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The school job took 2 days but they were looooooooooonnnnnggggggg days! Saying that the most physical part was the vacuuming. I find bonneting a piece of cake....far easier than hwe. The rotary does all the work for you. I just stuck my ipod on and listened to a couple of audio books! Charged £1000 for the 2 days work. Some may have charged more but I was happy with that especially these days!
How many square yards / metres was that?
Simon
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Jim
Do you have the heater tank which went with the machine?
Cheers
doug
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The school job took 2 days but they were looooooooooonnnnnggggggg days! Saying that the most physical part was the vacuuming. I find bonneting a piece of cake....far easier than hwe. The rotary does all the work for you. I just stuck my ipod on and listened to a couple of audio books! Charged £1000 for the 2 days work. Some may have charged more but I was happy with that especially these days!
How many square yards / metres was that?
Simon
Ive no idea mate. I just had a look, figured out how long it would take then that times my hourly rate. Actually I knocked a bit off as I seem to have the contract to clean it twice a year now. Dont wanna be greedy but I think it was a fair price and Im happy with that
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With bonneting you are only going to remove a limited amount of soil basically what come into contact with the bonnet.
I do bonnet on commercial jobs but only after extraction. I have tried for years to achieve results that I am happy with just by bonneting but the closest has been with texatherm, but still cannot get the same result as hwe then bonnet.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
hi
i agree with the above, i think texatherm is the best rotary system but will not cope on really dirty or greasy carpets like a retail food outlet e.g. coffee shop. rotary is good when you have hundreds of square meters of office carpet with mild traffic film on the walkways and the odd spot to deal with.
cheers
john
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I just use the regular pads when i got the machine it came with about 30 of them so i have not brought any others especially as they are £30 :o
have not done much LM i may try the encapsulation method you suggested next time thank for that.
Yeah they are pricey but last a long time. I would Ebay some of the pads you have if you have a lot and buy some of the heavy duty ones in turn. You only need a few. Just use the ringer bucket... You should notice an enormous difference especially on heavily soiled carpets when using the heavy duty pads.
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This is a job we did this evening. It's low profile sheet in a furniture show room that has just undetgone an overhaul. The carpet was extremely dust with plaster etc and so LM just wasn't an option. We pre-vacced it with a Flexi 5 then pre-sprayed it with Pure Clean and cleaned it in just shy of 100 sqm in an hour with a TM.
Simon
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Jim
Do you have the heater tank which went with the machine?
Cheers
doug
I just got a rotary Doug with a few dozen pads, not a Texatherm.
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This is a job we did this evening. It's low profile sheet in a furniture show room that has just undetgone an overhaul. The carpet was extremely dust with plaster etc and so LM just wasn't an option. We pre-vacced it with a Flexi 5 then pre-sprayed it with Pure Clean and cleaned it in just shy of 100 sqm in an hour with a TM.
Simon
whats that big black mark in the top left of the picture? couldn't you get that out?
oops sorry, my mistake, finger print on my laptop screen, ;D
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the solution you use is not as important as the technique i get excellent results with all bonneting chems bar a few.
as with hwe the more you do the better you get it is a craft that has to be learnt.
Dave
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I did an ecap job at Jaguar Land Rover in Liverpool today, first ever, only very small area tho. Brilliant result.
Simon
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Simon if you are down Southampton in the next few weeks or so, I can show you the Hector way of LM cleaning with Mpower or HD if you like.
Showed the Bunny boiler (gary j) and he was gob smacked at the speed and the high standard of the clean, and I am sure you would be too.
Once in a lifetime offer ;D ;D ;D
Hector,
I'll take you up on that kind offer, if you don't mind, I've got lots to learn in LM world.
Simon
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Just give me a clue when you are next down Southampton and I will meet up with you
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I had a call from a cleaning supplier and discussed this with them, i explained that i use mostly Prochem stuff as i was sent a lot of testers when i passed my NCCA and that this was a good way of trying new stuff without the risk of spending a lot on something that is not very good, he has emailed me today saying he is going to send me some "Craftex catalyst" free of charge, anyone used this ? i will give it a go
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Just give me a clue when you are next down Southampton and I will meet up with you
Go on then let me know too, and we can have a mini get together.