Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: R W C™ on August 11, 2011, 08:55:36 pm
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Can someone explain what the difference between this and carbon poles, surely its just carbon,
thw reason I ask is
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINDOW-CLEANING-28FT-CARBON-COMPOSITE-WATER-FED-POLE-/230659066347?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item35b45a09eb
they compare this pole to the clx and not the slx ???
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Composite is a hynrid, carbon and fibreglass,
I think
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Very misleading. Sounds like the seller doesn't know what he's selling! ???
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looks like my elite pole. it is a carbon fibre pole, no difference to a carbon pole they are both the same
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looks like my elite pole. it is a carbon fibre pole, no difference to a carbon pole they are both the same
Thats what I thought
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I think S. Ainger got it right, it sounds like a Hybrid pole...mixture of fibreglass and Carbon Fibre. A bit heavier than your average carbon pole.
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1170g for a 28ft composite pole,
Think alex is gonna be calling some lawyers
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I think S. Ainger got it right, it sounds like a Hybrid pole...mixture of fibreglass and Carbon Fibre. A bit heavier than your average carbon pole.
whats that "gif" from mate? ;D what film is that off? i need to see more of it! ;D
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I think S. Ainger got it right, it sounds like a Hybrid pole...mixture of fibreglass and Carbon Fibre. A bit heavier than your average carbon pole.
whats that "gif" from mate? ;D what film is that off? i need to see more of it! ;D
Dunno what film its off mate, but it looked funny when I found it on Photobucket last year. Upload some if ya can find any. ;)
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looks like my elite pole. it is a carbon fibre pole, no difference to a carbon pole they are both the same
It does look like the elite carbon pole. However, the description is all over the place!!
Is your Elite drilled on the top section for the hose? Like through the carbon tube?
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These poles are not 'full carbon poles' but are what many call 'Hybrid Poles'. They give the composition of the poles as :
'Dual Layer' - 50% Fibreglass Inner / 50% Carbon Fibre Outer
Where they are inaccurate is by saying that they differ from the CL-X by having all (100%) carbon composite sections. They think that the CL-X has a fibre glass handle, which whilst some early ones did have a fibre glass handle, all of the current poles have carbon composite throughout all sections.
This is where the use of 100% is misleading as it looks like they are saying they are 100% carbon, but what they are actually saying is that 100% of the sections are a carbon composite (carbon/fibre glass mix).
Much the same idea then as the CL-X range.
I do find their quoted weights hard to believe as the same pole sold by Elite is quoted as being about 50% heavier at 1620g. The pole is actually a 22.9ft pole not the 28ft as the title says and has a closed length of 5'9" which is about 1ft longer when closed than the 22ft CLX.
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Some one's gonna be upset come delivery day!!! ;D
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looks like my elite pole. it is a carbon fibre pole, no difference to a carbon pole they are both the same
It does look like the elite carbon pole. However, the description is all over the place!!
Is your Elite drilled on the top section for the hose? Like through the carbon tube?
no theres an alloy tip for the brush and its drilled through there.
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what they are actually saying is that 100% of the sections are a carbon composite (carbon/fibre glass mix)
Carbon composite DOES NOT mean a mix of glass and carbon fibre. It means a mix of carbon fibre and polymer.
Whoever says "composite" and means a mix of glass and carbon fibre, simply doesnt know what they're talking about.
The material Glass fibre poles are made from is "Composite" and so is carbon fibre.
"Composite" means its a mixture of 2 or more materials with different properties, eg what we call Glass fibre for poles is actually a mix of glass fibre and polymer. So glass fibre is a composite.
The material carbon poles is made from is also a composite, eg carbon fibre and polymer. So carbon fibre is a composite.
The confusion comes when people selling them describe poles made from glass AND carbon as "composites". Yes they are composites, but its not the fact that they have both glass and carbon that make them so. CF poles and GF poles are also composites. A better word, as used for the extel poles, is hybrid.
Pole sellers who think only glass and carbon mix poles are "composites" simply don't know what they're talking about.
I think that the term hybrid is actually a very vague and inaccurate phrase. A true 'Hybrid pole' would be a cross between a telescopic and a modular pole - A hybrid of two types not two materials.
As you say the term composite refers to a mix of two or more components. There are many composite materials even in nature - for instance wood is a composite material of cellulose fibre and a matrix of lignin. Plywood is a composite of different wood types and resin.
What they all have in common is a fibre-type component and a matrix-type component.
Therefore the term Carbon Composite, if so desired, can be used to refer to either a carbon/matrix mix or carbon/glass/matrix mix or indeed even a carbon/boron/matrix mix- it is entirely up to the person describing the product to decide how to use this phrase. What does need to be done therefore is to clarify what the mix is. Obviously all carbon fibre poles have to have the matrix otherwise they would be not be usable. Therefore in common parlance, when defining the composite being referred to, just the fibre components are usually listed.
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what they are actually saying is that 100% of the sections are a carbon composite (carbon/fibre glass mix)
Carbon composite DOES NOT mean a mix of glass and carbon fibre. It means a mix of carbon fibre and polymer.
Whoever says "composite" and means a mix of glass and carbon fibre, simply doesnt know what they're talking about.
The material Glass fibre poles are made from is "Composite" and so is carbon fibre.
"Composite" means its a mixture of 2 or more materials with different properties, eg what we call Glass fibre for poles is actually a mix of glass fibre and polymer. So glass fibre is a composite.
The material carbon poles is made from is also a composite, eg carbon fibre and polymer. So carbon fibre is a composite.
The confusion comes when people selling them describe poles made from glass AND carbon as "composites". Yes they are composites, but its not the fact that they have both glass and carbon that make them so. CF poles and GF poles are also composites. A better word, as used for the extel poles, is hybrid.
Pole sellers who think only glass and carbon mix poles are "composites" simply don't know what they're talking about.
It was obvious to me the point being made by Alex Gardiner then you come along splitting hairs and sounding like a loon
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what they are actually saying is that 100% of the sections are a carbon composite (carbon/fibre glass mix)
Carbon composite DOES NOT mean a mix of glass and carbon fibre. It means a mix of carbon fibre and polymer.
Whoever says "composite" and means a mix of glass and carbon fibre, simply doesnt know what they're talking about.
The material Glass fibre poles are made from is "Composite" and so is carbon fibre.
"Composite" means its a mixture of 2 or more materials with different properties, eg what we call Glass fibre for poles is actually a mix of glass fibre and polymer. So glass fibre is a composite.
The material carbon poles is made from is also a composite, eg carbon fibre and polymer. So carbon fibre is a composite.
The confusion comes when people selling them describe poles made from glass AND carbon as "composites". Yes they are composites, but its not the fact that they have both glass and carbon that make them so. CF poles and GF poles are also composites. A better word, as used for the extel poles, is hybrid.
Pole sellers who think only glass and carbon mix poles are "composites" simply don't know what they're talking about.
I bet you're a bundle of laughs to go down the pub with on a Friday night :P
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Therefore the term Carbon Composite, if so desired, can be used to refer to either a carbon/matrix mix or carbon/glass/matrix mix or indeed even a carbon/boron/matrix mix- it is entirely up to the person describing the product to decide how to use this phrase. What does need to be done therefore is to clarify what the mix is. Obviously all carbon fibre poles have to have the matrix otherwise they would be not be usable. Therefore in common parlance, when defining the composite being referred to, just the fibre components are usually listed.
No, your simply wrong.
If you talk to anybody in the engineering world about composites, they are talking about glass fibre, and carbon fibre, and a mix of the two. If you google "composite suppliers" the result is companies that supply glass fibre, carbon fibre, etc etc. The word "composite" applies to both. That is what composites are, plain and simple.
The way you incorrectly use the term "composite" is as if it only applies to poles that are glass and carbon fibre mix.
For example, on your website you talk about your "CLX composite pole" as it is a mix of glass and carbon fibre. But your other poles are just described as "carbon poles". I also notice that you don't describe this pole as having a carbon-glass fibre mix, just "composite", probably because you thought that the word "composite" means that. i am telling you it doesnt.
This causes confusion, and personally I think you didn't know that the word "composite" applies to all poles, not just those with a glass and carbon mix, until I just pointed it out.
Morning Nick :),
No you are wrong!!!! ;D ;D
As we have been producing (not buying off-the-shelf) poles now for several years I am fully aware of the terminology that is used and how it is 'generally' used. Your pointing out your understanding of these terms on this has not educated me at all as I am fully aware what composite means in the industry.
I have always objected to the term hybrid being used with regard to carbon/glass composite construction as I feel that this is a poor choice of description. Although I have always felt this, I have not even mentioned it let alone starting correcting others on Forum's as to their choice of semantics. In reality it is up to the manufacturer and retailers of a poles how they decide to use the English language to explain their products to the buying public - as long as it is not misrepresentation. In my opinion the new Xtreme range of poles is a 'Hybrid' pole as it is a mixture of telescopic and modular poles.
Whilst this might confuse you, although I doubt it, it has never confused our client base. We have sold several thousand of these products and to my knowledge all were quite clear as to what they were buying. On our website we are one of the few, if not the only manufacturer, that clearly states the carbon/glass mix and even state the modulus of the High-Modulus of carbon fibre used (many manufacturers call much lower modulus carbon 'high-modulus' or even use the vague phrase 'multi-modulus' which just means a mix of low and not so low modulus carbon)
None of this really matters as long as the buying public know what they are buying from us when they make their purchase decision. I do appreciate that not all of our clients who visit our website are as educated on composite construction as you seem to be. Because of this when coming up with a term for the CLX range we took a good bit of time deciding what would differentiate them from the 'full carbon' ranges we do. As you know even these full carbon ranges are not 100% carbon fibres as they need the matrix system to work and are indeed also composite material. However most companies refer to these type of poles as 'full carbon' poles. Therefore using the phrase 'carbon composite' with regard to the CL-X range has always very clearly shown our clients that this is a carbon mix as opposed to our full carbon poles.
Thank you for providing me with this opportunity to talk about our products in greater detail - as always a pleasure!
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Who does Nick Wareham work for?
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I think that the point is that as a CUSTOMER I know what is meant by the word 'composit'. I know what I am buying.
Who do you work for Nick? You sound like a bitter rival but I may be wrong.
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As you know even these full carbon ranges are not 100% carbon fibres as they need the matrix system to work and are indeed also composite material. However most companies refer to these type of poles as 'full carbon' poles. Therefore using the phrase 'carbon composite' with regard to the CL-X range has always very clearly shown our clients that this is a carbon mix as opposed to our full carbon poles.
You've missed the point completely.
Using the term "carbon composite" has not shown 'very clearly' that this is a mix of carbon and glass. ALL carbon poles, yours included, and that of ALL manufactures are "carbon composite". ie a composite of carbon and polymer.
NOBODY except you that I have seen refers to glass - carbon poles as 'composite', because ALL poles are composite. That's why I think you have misunderstood the word.
It does not apply only to glass and carbon mix poles, as you are using it.
That is all I am saying.
Either you didn't read Alex's reply or you are just plain thick! ;D
To me, it's you who doesn't see things clearly!
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What a load of COMPOST
Nick is obviously connected to Ionics or their sister company.
Plants grow well in compost! ;D
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I had a sneaky feeling it was pure2o after he was pushing the systems at any given chance. and I think it may be right.
It's been good reading though ;D
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you only got to look at the time of the day he does most of his posting. ;)
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I had a sneaky feeling it was pure2o after he was pushing the systems at any given chance. and I think it may be right.
It's been good reading though ;D
I think you might be right steve, slates every post about gardiners even tho he states hes never ordered or owns anything from gardiners, a lot of posts go on about ionics or pure20 and he even got a grafter before anyone else recieved theres,
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=122488.msg1060256#msg1060256
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Rumbled! ;D
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Rumbled! ;D
What makes you think that?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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:o
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Going back to the original post, the company on ebay obviously see the clx as something to aspire to. If i was selling a product I don't think I'd mention the competition. Are they allowed to do that?
Strange amendment at the bottom of the ad too - now I'm really confused ;D
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If Gardiners were really, really clever they would run an advert just like this one.
Imagine if we all could get our competitors to mention our superior quality items and advertise for us.
Brilliant marketing by the Gardiners machine!!
The competition scores another own goal.
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Nick here's a tip!! dont try and dis the most sought after wf poles . Most on here want a slx , who wants a i...cs. Get a grip! Who talks on here about wanting an io..c pole????
You are making yourself look stupid.
Everyonr knows Gardiners produce the most sought after gear and do so at a realistic price!!
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If you look at the bids on the auction it looks really dodgy ::)
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well it seems like I cant make a post without it being deleted.
So I'll only say this:
Have I "dissed" alex's poles? NO. read the thread. All i did was comment about the use of the word "composite". I've never used those poles, they might be great they might be rubbish. I dont know or care.
Is this a big issue? NO. I never said it was.
And all you who are accusing me of working for someone like ionics pure2o or whatever, all I can say is "I WISH".
I have some ioncs poles, I will probably be getting a pure2o system sooner or later, I also have gear from other companies too. SO WHATT????
WILL I BE ARGUED OFF THIS FORUM BY A BUNCH OF BULLIES??
NO I WILL NOT!
You need a new, composite, keyboard. The caps/lock is stuck.It's been an education reading your's and Alex G's posts. Are you sure you don't work for Gardiner's? :)
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Nick have a read of some back posts and you will find out if Gardiners poles are good or not. You may buy one after your little read. Or are you going to keep slugging it out with the multipoles.
;D chill out man
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well it seems like I cant make a post without it being deleted.
So I'll only say this:
Have I "dissed" alex's poles? NO. read the thread. All i did was comment about the use of the word "composite". I've never used those poles, they might be great they might be rubbish. I dont know or care.
Is this a big issue? NO. I never said it was.
And all you who are accusing me of working for someone like ionics pure2o or whatever, all I can say is "I WISH".
I have some ioncs poles, I will probably be getting a pure2o system sooner or later, I also have gear from other companies too. SO WHATT????
WILL I BE ARGUED OFF THIS FORUM BY A BUNCH OF BULLIES??
NO I WILL NOT!
You may remember I politely requested that you amended that particular post. Unfortunately that request was ignored by you and I therefore reported it to the moderators saying -
'I think my husband's anatomy is my business! :) '
Hopefully there will be no need in the future for this to happen again as a point can be made on a forum without being offensive and rude to anyone.
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Good morning Mrs A, quite rightly so. No need for such bad taste and hostile comments. I'm pretty sure Alex knows exactly what he's talking about regarding pole manufacture. Probably more than anyone else in this country I would imagine! ;)
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'I think my husband's anatomy is my business! :) '
I disagree. I think we all need to know if it's carbon or composite.
Vin