Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: pristinewindows on July 31, 2011, 07:00:57 pm
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This is how it works in reality:
The big companies quote low. The employees know its not really worth their while doing it. So most times they don't actually do it. I know someone who went to work for one of the biggies. The van pulls up out side a FatNest bank. He jumps out with his bucket. The other lads pull him back in "we don't do em all" they says and drive off! But they do tick the worksheet. That way they get a 'decent wage' ;)
The next bit is the best :D
IF a FatNest manager phones about dirty windows they send someone specially to deal with the complaint only. Then wait for the next complaint which they deal with.
This way the only actually clean a proportion of the contract so it's worth their while as they get paid for the whole contract
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u have let the secret out now, they will all be at it now
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This is how it works in reality:
The big companies quote low. The employees know its not really worth their while doing it. So most times they don't actually do it. I know someone who went to work for one of the biggies. The van pulls up out side a FatNest bank. He jumps out with his bucket. The other lads pull him back in "we don't do em all" they says and drive off! But they do tick the worksheet. That way they get a 'decent wage' ;)
The next bit is the best :D
IF a FatNest manager phones about dirty windows they send someone specially to deal with the complaint only. Then wait for the next complaint which they deal with.
This way the only actually clean a proportion of the contract so it's worth their while as they get paid for the whole contract
Thats just about it
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It`s how we work up North on domestics.
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Its what is happening with William Hill the window have not been cleaned for at least 5 weeks.
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I have to disagree with some of the comments.
Nationwide work on the Natwest and RBS contract and work on a PDA sign off system which only a branch supervisor and manager are autherised to sign.
Interserve do William Hills but only 70% the windows on the other 30% are done by their own general cleaners so that is why they probably look a state. (interserve also provide the cleaning).
National companies will always win due to the fact they are national they keep prices to a minimum only just making a profit but provide a service nationally so they make a nice profit.
Combine this with other retail and they do make good money on a national scale.
Retail and commercial like this as it keeps their costs down so tend to go with national companies.
Its all about money not the service nowadays but in saying that a window cleaner in St Helens was charging Argos £900 per month for 3 visits a week and only takes 45min to clean
So its no wonder they go national
How do I know this I hear you ask?
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thats not on i dont think >:(
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thats not on i dont think >:(
Whats not on GB?
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lost a contract to a large company ,they definetly dont do all windows and some of the ones they do not so good ???
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My local Natwest hasnt had there windows cleaned since mid november at least. There has been the same bird crap there since
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My local Natwest hasnt had there windows cleaned since mid november at least. There has been the same bird crap there since
Was the bird crap above ground floor?
The specification for Natwest and RBS is on a monthly basis ground floor only , upper floors annually.
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thats life .we just got to blank our selfs off .untill the retail people wise up . to the fact they r being ripped off .n take us real window cleaners back on .to do a proper job .
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thats life .we just got to blank our selfs off .untill the retail people wise up . to the fact they r being ripped off .n take us real window cleaners back on .to do a proper job .
Could not agree more Tacky, :)
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Bird crap on ground floor...i'll get a picture this week
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thats not on i dont think >:(
Whats not on GB?
missing windows is not on really! if they cant afford to do the job on there price then dont bother
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thats not on i dont think >:(
Whats not on GB?
missing windows is not on really! if they cant afford to do the job on there price then dont bother
It all comes down to their scheduling, in retail it is difficult to do all day due to the general public and health and safety laws etc.....
Example:
they give one operative 10 banks or shops to complete in one day that might sound a doddle but say 4 are in Liverpool, 2 St Helens, 2 Bootle and 2 Prescot, all in town centres and due to needing a verified signature for completion they are unable to start til 7-8am.
The operative has to try and get all these done and half of them he might require using a reach and wash system and with these being in the centres and how busy they are using wfp is not visible so inevitably windows get missed we all know we cant go into a precinct after 9am , work is rushed due to the tight schedule which equals poor service.
The big boys dont care about service quality and I say give it back to local guys who can deliver that service.
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its all happened before,just wait ;)
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Nationwide work on the Natwest and RBS contract and work on a PDA sign off system which only a branch supervisor and manager are autherised to sign.
I do Nationwide alone and we dont have a PDA, just normal signature sheets.
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While I agree some of the big boys do things we wouldn't this has to be balanced out a bit.
I used to do a Primark contract. Primark took on a large cleaning firm for their windows after their windy dropped a ladder on someone, he didn't have any Public Liability and it cost them 100K.
It's sometimes better for a large chain to use a large firm because of the paperwork. And often the large firms quote cheap on the windows, and make the money back through the general cleaning. It's even been known for them to throw the windows free!
Quality, sadly is not that much of an issue, I did a good at Primark but was undercut by 40% by some numpty who does a very poor job. But I don't imagine the staff notice the difference.
Or perhaps I was the numpty for trying hard, who knows!
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The problem with a lot of the bigger companies, for example Nat West Banks, is that the procurement of services comes from their Head Office and not individual branches, therefore no-one in the branches is "in charge" of checking standards etc etc etc. All their Head Office want is a box ticked to say all done and ok, and no-one at branch level is going to admit to their HO that the service hasn't been checked out.
You can imagine what is happening with other services, if this is what is happening with window cleaning!
As for the larger cleaning companies supplying the services, this is how they operate, always have done, always will, theirs is not a "personal" service such as we on here would supply. The person/s in charge of the contracts will not be affected by people complaining (if they do) and will have the standard answer of "please accept our apologies on this and we will look into it for you"
They work on cashflow and as long as their financial people are getting it right, then they will not give a hoot whether standards are good or not.
It's life at the top.
Even Sir Alan admits he has made money out of "Tat" :)
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As far as the contractor is concerned, it's nothing to do with windows or quality, just numbers! ;D
However low a company quotes to get the work, then what they deliver must be even cheaper- Simples!
The contractor will make money, even if this means cleaning only half of what they quoted for. ;)
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Nationwide work on the Natwest and RBS contract and work on a PDA sign off system which only a branch supervisor and manager are autherised to sign.
I do Nationwide alone and we dont have a PDA, just normal signature sheets.
by Nationwide i mean the company NWC
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The problem with a lot of the bigger companies, for example Nat West Banks, is that the procurement of services comes from their Head Office and not individual branches, therefore no-one in the branches is "in charge" of checking standards etc etc etc. All their Head Office want is a box ticked to say all done and ok, and no-one at branch level is going to admit to their HO that the service hasn't been checked out.
You can imagine what is happening with other services, if this is what is happening with window cleaning!
As for the larger cleaning companies supplying the services, this is how they operate, always have done, always will, theirs is not a "personal" service such as we on here would supply. The person/s in charge of the contracts will not be affected by people complaining (if they do) and will have the standard answer of "please accept our apologies on this and we will look into it for you"
They work on cashflow and as long as their financial people are getting it right, then they will not give a hoot whether standards are good or not.
It's life at the top.
Even Sir Alan admits he has made money out of "Tat" :)
Helen your bang on with the Natwest scenario it also the same for RBS they have three or four people who look after the window cleaning,. They only complain when they receive a complaint or carry out an audit.
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As far as the contractor is concerned, it's nothing to do with windows or quality, just numbers! ;D
However low a company quotes to get the work, then what they deliver must be even cheaper- Simples!
The contractor will make money, even if this means cleaning only half of what they quoted for. ;)
Its not on really though is it??
If you switched your gas and electric supplier for instance and then they only gave you one of the two services,saying well we are cheaper than your last company but that comes at a price, you wouldn't stay with that company for very long would you!!
Just my view though.......
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As far as the contractor is concerned, it's nothing to do with windows or quality, just numbers! ;D
However low a company quotes to get the work, then what they deliver must be even cheaper- Simples!
The contractor will make money, even if this means cleaning only half of what they quoted for. ;)
Its not on really though is it??
If you switched your gas and electric supplier for instance and then they only gave you one of the two services,saying well we are cheaper than your last company but that comes at a price, you wouldn't stay with that company for very long would you!!
Just my view though.......
I agree.
However, no one wants to know, no one wants to take any responsibility these days. A man does his job with the figures, that's it, job done. All about the numbers & any bridge is crossed when it's reached.
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nationwide formerly rssuk biggest knockers the lost barclays contract resently along with the steps contract ther do natwest and rbs and im sure they will lose them soon total fraudstars management hire family and friends and get away with it because head officee is in leeds i know i worked for them for a short while
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nationwide formerly rssuk biggest knockers the lost barclays contract resently along with the steps contract ther do natwest and rbs and im sure they will lose them soon total fraudstars management hire family and friends and get away with it because head officee is in leeds i know i worked for them for a short while
Hi Everlast,
Yes they have just lost steps of ISS a company up north now have a few regions they are called SMITHS never heard of them.
I worked for them for a considerable amount of time over 8 years.
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My local Natwest hasnt had there windows cleaned since mid november at least. There has been the same bird crap there since
Was the bird crap above ground floor?
The specification for Natwest and RBS is on a monthly basis ground floor only , upper floors annually.
why??? i dont get it, it is just a pure con, when i clean any work weekly monthly or yearly i do the lot, this is a stupid system, i think me and my wife should go out to those wine and dine partys, and start handing out a few back handers, maybe i can pick up a few big contracts, or the managment are just plain stupid, and i bet 100% most that do the work are subies in that area,
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My local Natwest hasnt had there windows cleaned since mid november at least. There has been the same bird crap there since
Was the bird crap above ground floor?
The specification for Natwest and RBS is on a monthly basis ground floor only , upper floors annually.
why??? i dont get it, it is just a pure con, when i clean any work weekly monthly or yearly i do the lot, this is a stupid system, i think me and my wife should go out to those wine and dine partys, and start handing out a few back handers, maybe i can pick up a few big contracts, or the managment are just plain stupid, and i bet 100% most that do the work are subies in that area,
Hi Jouk
None of NWC Nationwides window cleaners are subbies, they have over 110 operatives going out completing this work or not in this case.
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i have lost a bit of work to nationals and undercutters. after speaking to managers after i am convinced that the finance departments do not care if the job is being done propaly its all about the cheaper quote and the one invoice they have to pay.
they will put up with it because it save them money
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Wow! It's amazing that national organisations like these banks, who are obviously incredibly poorly organised and don't have a clue about what's going on the real world, haven't collapsed through their own ineptitude and had a to have a massive tax payer funded bailout.
Oh no wait - they have ???
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Just a thought.
if you had a 'contract' with Currys/Dixon or some other company that went to a 'national', then do what I do and never buy again from them.
Go somewhere else for your TV, electric shaver, washing machine, fridge, hover etc etc
I've never stepped inside the previously mentioned companies, and in my opinion they have lost more in profit than they would have pad me to clean their windows.
That way your hitting back, in a small way, at the very people that took the job away from you! Small victories.
Thoughts?
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if there was a tv say £100 cheaper in currys than any were else are you saying you would rather pay more so that you win a "morale victory " against currys changing window cleaners?
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i dont get why people get so up set over losing national contracts, people in this business have no loyalty to any one, most of the wc i know are chancers who realised how much money can be made and jump on the band wagon
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There`s some naivety on this thread.
They are banks, money lending houses. How big a priority do you think the state of their windows is?
Do you go to the bank with the cleanest windows for your mortgage or the one offering the best deal? If they can save money, they will; even compromising the cleanliness of their windows :o.
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There`s some naivety on this thread.
They are banks, money lending houses. How big a priority do you think the state of their windows is?
Do you go to the bank with the cleanest windows for your mortgage or the one offering the best deal? If they can save money, they will; even compromising the cleanliness of their windows :o.
Its not just banks that go national and let their windows slide, I used to argos 3 times a week now they are down to once a fortnite and thats if the national boys turn up, its all about saving money, the thing I dont get is why they bother having them done at all that way they will save what pittance they are paying now.
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unless you are a national company and competing with these people why do any of you care???? what do you gain from doing one or two branches of a national chain in a couple of nearby towns,how can it possibly compare to a run of half a dozen modern semis with small windows and piddly conservatories at 12 quid a pop and as many minutes to clean em???
i really dont get it,why bother
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When i lost one of the jobs i used to do for £400 a month to do 2 stores windows,and polish floors,thats why i care.
I'm not a national company,just a small guy trying to earn a living.
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unless you are a national company and competing with these people why do any of you care???? what do you gain from doing one or two branches of a national chain in a couple of nearby towns,how can it possibly compare to a run of half a dozen modern semis with small windows and piddly conservatories at 12 quid a pop and as many minutes to clean em???
i really dont get it,why bother
Because until the nationals moved in at pretty much £5 a store some people would be picking up a whole lot more. I will give you an example, Republic has just gone national (or will be from Sept) and I know a chap who cleans one and gets £102 per month, its a decent sized store and worth that much so when the nationals move in thats a bit of a hit and when it happens to 2 or 3 stores it soon adds up.
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if its a decent size store i can see why you would be ped off,but small high street branches of building societies and banks,is it worth the bother??
i mean google images of nationwide branches ,how much can (or could!!!) you get away with charging for these places???
i am not being confrontational i just dont see how it works ???
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We used to do chain stores back in the 90's. Also got the MOD contract for all the barracks within a 100 mile radius. Was a good deal. The Army's number crunchers measured both sides of a window and came up with twice the square meters!! Everything is reckoned in area to clean, so a standard price on the bid and we were laughing. Kept that contract for a few years, then some huge firm called ISS from Sweden put a stupid bid in one day and got the job of course. It was pennies compared to our price and they kept the contract for at least ten years or more.
Nobody, in such a big organisation like the MOD or national banks etc really gives a toss about windows being dirty. It's just another box to be ticked by some "Manager" that is checked by some other "Manager" somewhere in "Management".
LJ Thorpe sees it like I do. Safety in numbers. Losing one or two hundred quid jobs hurts, losing one or two twelve quid jobs is easy to replace.
If you are ambitious like some of the guys on here, then it can be a problem building an empire and losing some of it. For blokes like me, I couldn't give a toss if I lose the odd shop here and there. They are all over the place. Just get out and chase the work if you want to work on national chains. People like me and LJ Thorpe will pick up the slack. ( That's only an example, not meant as written) I won't be picking up any slack, as I'm not in UK.
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We used to do chain stores back in the 90's. Also got the MOD contract for all the barracks within a 100 mile radius. Was a good deal. The Army's number crunchers measured both sides of a window and came up with twice the square meters!! Everything is reckoned in area to clean, so a standard price on the bid and we were laughing. Kept that contract for a few years, then some huge firm called ISS from Sweden put a stupid bid in one day and got the job of course. It was pennies compared to our price and they kept the contract for at least ten years or more.
Nobody, in such a big organisation like the MOD or national banks etc really gives a toss about windows being dirty. It's just another box to be ticked by some "Manager" that is checked by some other "Manager" somewhere in "Management".
LJ Thorpe sees it like I do. Safety in numbers. Losing one or two hundred quid jobs hurts, losing one or two twelve quid jobs is easy to replace.
If you are ambitious like some of the guys on here, then it can be a problem building an empire and losing some of it. For blokes like me, I couldn't give a toss if I lose the odd shop here and there. They are all over the place. Just get out and chase the work if you want to work on national chains. People like me and LJ Thorpe will pick up the slack. ( That's only an example, not meant as written) I won't be picking up any slack, as I'm not in UK.
cock on mate could not have put it better........obviously or i would have already!
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The above two comments are very wise.
When a had a couple of bigger contracts, I always used to add up my other work to be sure that if I lost my biggies I could still pay my way. Because if you rely on 2 or 3 contracts you can be up a certain place without a paddle!
And lo and behold I have a few largish jobs in the lost couple of years.
Spread your risk
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I agree with what you are saying so far as the houses are concerned and if I lost all my commercial work I would still have a very comfortable living but I do shops etc so I can earn regardless of weather etc and be earning at 5 in the morning and not waiting til 8.30 to start earning.
Lets imagine somebody offers you say one shop five days a week for an hours work a day at lets says a thousand pounds a month would you turn it down? And if you wouldn't at somepoint no matter how many houses you clean you'd miss that money if it went, you just get used to earning it
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The above two comments are very wise.
When a had a couple of bigger contracts, I always used to add up my other work to be sure that if I lost my biggies I could still pay my way. Because if you rely on 2 or 3 contracts you can be up a certain place without a paddle!
And lo and behold I have a few largish jobs in the lost couple of years.
Spread your risk
So how did you feel when you lost those bigger jobs? Not great I would think. I've lost some decent sized ones in the past and it makes no difference to me if its £300 or £3 I dont like it!
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Good points, Mike. You`re not going to turn it down, just in case you lose it. Earn it while you can.
But there was always a chance it was going to happen. Cleaning windows isn`t as important to others as it is to us.
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I felt annoyed of course.
One for £800 a month went entirely and one for £1000 a month went down to £300 all in the space of 18 months. Along with other bits and pieces
Go for the comm work if you want but don't rely on it was the thrust of my comments I thought.
I still have a fair amount of comm work and as you say I can start v early on it and do it regardless of the weather.
But eggs in one basket etc etc etc.
Earn it while you can but don't rely on it being there in 6 months, cos that's not how business works is it.
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You`re both right!
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I lose a national shop this week, that is done by a national contractor, not because of change of contract but because of the store closing down, I am not bothered, from that job I have picked up three other local shops, and while everyone keeps saying it is all about price sometimes it isn't, the guy that that done this store before it went national was getting £40 every 4 weeks, I subbed it and was getting £56 per 4 weeks :D hey it is a small hit but now I am on that street twice a week and ready to approach whoever moves in to this store and see if I can pick it up again.
I like my commercial because I earn regardless of weather, although only a small part is retail, most is offices etc
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
probably min wage
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
probably min wage
not at all, the guys for mitie are on a decent wage, at least good guys are
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talking of the big boys, a year or 2 ago we were working on norwivh union, we were all dressed in smart uniform when one of the big companies guy turns up - dressed scruffily and no uniform, i thought that was probably a one off but security said it wasnt,
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if there was a tv say £100 cheaper in currys than any were else are you saying you would rather pay more so that you win a "morale victory " against currys changing window cleaners?
ronnie I do respect you as a long time contributor, and Im sure you will be the first to agree that the scenario you give is very unlikely - but to answer your question, no I would not buy from Currys ever again (and haven't in 7 years) and thanks to the internet you can always find the TV you want from another supplier.
It is a victory.
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
probably min wage
a lot of the national companies sub the jobs out and get you to wear a t shirt of theres and pretend that you work for them,
the people who come on here moaning about the nationals are probably the ones who are sending emails, offering there services
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
probably min wage
a lot of the national companies sub the jobs out and get you to wear a t shirt of theres and pretend that you work for them,
the people who come on here moaning about the nationals are probably the ones who are sending emails, offering there services
If there was a like button on here I would of pressed it for that comment, very true I reckon.
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
probably min wage
a lot of the national companies sub the jobs out and get you to wear a t shirt of theres and pretend that you work for them,
the people who come on here moaning about the nationals are probably the ones who are sending emails, offering there services
The main National companies only sub out work if it is in a hard to reach area in the middle of no where they have their own operatives.
Most of the big boys are on around £8-£9 per hour for a basic window cleaner
But since the recession etc.... this has come down to minimum wage or around £7 because they know people want jobs!!
But in saying that if you pay s*?t you will get the same in output of work
These are my views as I have worked with the Nationals for over 13 years and know how they work im going to go it alone and get my own work because the way people are treated nowadays off these companies is ridiculous and I was a senior figure in the game also.
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interserve paid the lads £5.50 per shop in/out on the William Hills they charged £9.50 per shop per week .
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interserve paid the lads £5.50 per shop in/out on the William Hills they charged £9.50 per shop per week .
Interserve pay £7.02 per hour and they used to pay £5 per extra William Hill completed but they no longer do this because Boots has gone from weekly to fortnightly.
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Anybody know what these national companies pay their employees?
probably min wage
a lot of the national companies sub the jobs out and get you to wear a t shirt of theres and pretend that you work for them,
the people who come on here moaning about the nationals are probably the ones who are sending emails, offering there services
ha so thats how you get the big jobs! contact the nationals and become a subby! i know its probably obvious but im blonde! sorry and thanks ;D