Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richywilts on July 20, 2011, 11:27:59 am

Title: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: richywilts on July 20, 2011, 11:27:59 am
we have been giving it some thought recently about adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning business as we have a solid base of now nearly 600 customers. we would like work for indoors for bad weather etc.

i went down to barmouth at weekend and looked at dave washbrookes hydramaster truckmount system as was very impressed. im going to enrol on training courses etc following some market research ringing round our clients.

do people recomment going for a truckmount or mobile unit, i was told truckmount are more powerful and produce deeper clean.

just for help wat is an average figure one operator makes on average daily, day in day out. obviously you can earn ya good day amount and a bad day amount so just want average medium.

we will be pushing this service and expect a lot of interest.

cheers guys
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Neil Williams on July 20, 2011, 01:31:44 pm
we would like work for indoors for bad weather etc.

Suggest you bdo some more research because it doesn't work like that

following some market research ringing round our clients.

Don't believe everything your customers say. We fell into that trap thinking that 600 window cleaning customers would become 600 carpet cleaning customers. The actual figure would have been less than 100.

just for help wat is an average figure one operator makes on average daily, day in day out.

£72.10 why else do you think I am posting at this time of day.

BTW Richie, I suggest you get your overall business working right, going by a lot of your posts on the window cleaning forum, starting with you need to be Vat registered. And dig your heels in as much as you want at present with you don't need to, but you sure will need to be if you're taking on carpet cleaning too.
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: richywilts on July 20, 2011, 02:23:41 pm
neil i understand what everyones saying regards to vat but first few months this year havent yielded that much money and we have winter coming so i dont expect to need to go vat reg just yet.

i havent said i expect 600 customers to convert to having carpets cleaned, i said i was going to call all customers and research how much interest there was first before making any decisions, we have number of commercial clients already saying they would be interested, and word of mouth from providing a good service from even 100 of our customers would hopefully bring in new work for the first year alone, even if we brought in 500 pounds worth a week that would be 26,000pounds and help cover a large chunk of money for a truckmount.

we already have a full time canavasser too who will be pushing carpets as well as the windows which would bring in a number of job each week
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: JUST GUTTERS on July 20, 2011, 06:33:55 pm
rich why dont you set up an of shoot to your window cleaning business.. I would change the name about to give you a broader appeal....  clean direct  window cleaning...
 then another  clean direct cleaning solutions.. keep them seperate keep the vatman away

As for carpet cleaning just do the course first and get as much info as possible before you splash the cash on something that is not needed in the short term
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Neil Williams on July 20, 2011, 07:31:20 pm
.. keep them seperate keep the vatman away

Sorry but it doesn't work like that, and I'm not going to explain it either.
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: JUST GUTTERS on July 20, 2011, 07:47:00 pm
yes it can ask you accountant how to go about it...
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Neil Williams on July 20, 2011, 07:53:24 pm
yes it can ask you accountant how to go about it... other business may have to go in wifes name but can be done...

Ok then have it your way because we did that for a while until a fully qualified accountant told us otherwise.
For this to work you need (1) different people running it (2) from different premises (3) with different business names.

Put it this way and at the time I had the carpet cleaning turning over £50k. My wife had the window cleaning turning over £60k. We risked the IR classifying the two as one and we would have been liable for vat going back to the point that the two combined would have been below the Vat threshold.

So you do it if you want but don't come crying on here if it all goes t-ts up for back calculated Vat.
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: JUST GUTTERS on July 20, 2011, 08:00:19 pm
It can still be done...A cheap monthly postal address and tha wife and new name as above...
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Simon Gerrard on July 20, 2011, 08:24:59 pm
Crikey, not another one. I think we should all start window cleaning rounds, see how they like it :o
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Steve Rothwell on July 20, 2011, 08:29:13 pm
Now you come to mention it  8)

was wondering what to do with a few spare hours a week...
chamois and a bucket what more do you need ??
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Simon Gerrard on July 20, 2011, 08:35:53 pm
Erm, some ladders, perhaps. Oh, and a bad attitude  ;D
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Steve Rothwell on July 20, 2011, 08:39:08 pm
only going to do bungalows...   :P

till I've had a look at a training course to use the ladders......
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Simon Gerrard on July 20, 2011, 08:50:01 pm
Be a step up for you then  ;D
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Neil Williams on July 20, 2011, 08:52:02 pm
Erm, some ladders, perhaps. Oh, and a bad attitude  ;D

And don't forget the ability to undercut helps too, that's probably why so many make the change because they think that doesn't happen on this side ::)
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: richywilts on July 20, 2011, 09:35:56 pm
iv built up a well known brand in window cleaning in my area and with me nearing the vat threshold i was looking for something else to bring in regular money which we could advertise on the back of our window cleaning, dont know why so many carpet cleaners feel threatened when a window cleaner shows interest in becoming a carpet cleaner. what i like about carpet cleaning is i presume because you book in a time for the clean etc to take place i presume you get paid at end of the job for domestics,

im worried that when i go vat reg for windows your relying on payments coming in etc and vat is a huge payment too pay

Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Helen on July 20, 2011, 09:37:01 pm
yes it can ask you accountant how to go about it...

From HMRC site today, Have highlighted how a separate address will not suffice :)

Do not avoid registering for VAT by artificially separating business activities
If you run more than one business the sales in all those businesses must normally be added together to determine whether or not you must register for VAT.

However, if you are involved in the running of several separate legal entities, you may not need to combine the sales of those businesses to find whether you need to be VAT-registered.

If HMRC decides that you have artificially separated one business into smaller parts to avoid registering for VAT, it can decide that the entire business is a single taxable person and therefore must be registered for VAT. See the description of 'taxable person' in the section in this guide on who can and can't register for VAT.

Situations that HMRC may consider a single taxable person for VAT purposes include:

•Separate entities selling to registered and unregistered customers. The VAT-registered entity sells only to VAT-registered customers, and the entity not registered for VAT sells to customers who are not registered for VAT.
•The same equipment or premises being used by different entities on a regular basis. The premises and/or equipment are owned by one of the parties, who charges rent to the others.  This situation may occur in businesses such as launderettes and takeaway food operations.
•Splitting up what is usually a single sale. This is common in industries such the bed and breakfast trade, where one business supplies the bed and another the breakfast.
If you deliberately avoid registering for VAT, you may be liable to a penalty. For serious offences, the matter will be investigated and you may be prosecuted.

Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Steve Rothwell on July 20, 2011, 09:37:07 pm
Be a step up for you then  ;D

training  ?

quite right....  :o ;D
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Helen on July 20, 2011, 09:39:22 pm
iv built up a well known brand in window cleaning in my area and with me nearing the vat threshold i was looking for something else to bring in regular money which we could advertise on the back of our window cleaning, dont know why so many carpet cleaners feel threatened when a window cleaner shows interest in becoming a carpet cleaner. what i like about carpet cleaning is i presume because you book in a time for the clean etc to take place i presume you get paid at end of the job for domestics,

im worried that when i go vat reg for windows your relying on payments coming in etc and vat is a huge payment too pay



Have mentioned it before, you need to understand how vat works.  :)
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Darren O on July 20, 2011, 09:53:08 pm
Go for it carpet cleaning is a doddle if you have the money get a truckmount but saying that there is guys on here earning £750 a day with bottom of the range portables
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: richywilts on July 20, 2011, 10:00:35 pm
rich why dont you set up an of shoot to your window cleaning business.. I would change the name about to give you a broader appeal....  clean direct  window cleaning...
 then another  clean direct cleaning solutions.. keep them seperate keep the vatman away

As for carpet cleaning just do the course first and get as much info as possible before you splash the cash on something that is not needed in the short term


regards to the name change
this is something we are going to look at changing when more established and maybe when we go limited as it is one dimensional being called window clean direct
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Neil Williams on July 20, 2011, 10:17:13 pm
but saying that there is guys on here earning £750 a day with bottom of the range portables

Who's that then? Because 12 years in I'm clearly missing a trick or some training
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: david washbrook on July 20, 2011, 10:33:01 pm
richie
it was good to meet you on saturday and as i said i would go on a training course first then start thinking about getting you equipment also as i said there are some good bargins on second hand equipment around. also for what it is worth i would go for it if i were you as you know i do both carpets and windows from seperate vans so i carnt see a problem if i needed to split the business up my missus could own 1 i would own the other but that is up yo you.

good luck if i can be of any help please ask
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: jim mca on July 20, 2011, 11:11:49 pm
Ritchie
How much is your average window clean and how much will vat add probally not much
your wife or any other close family run a carpet or any other cleaning company and HMRC
find against you it could bankrupt you not the person giving you advice so I would check
with HMRC first

My window cleaner does carpets and upholstery on rainy days dont know how he knows
when its going to rain but he charges £35 for a 3 piece suite so probally rains when ever
he cleans a suite

As your going to provide the service then go for it and provide a professional service
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: richywilts on July 20, 2011, 11:30:33 pm
IM NOT GOING TO BE SPLITTING THE BUSINESS INTO TWO SEPERATE BUSINESSES!!!!!!!
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Helen on July 21, 2011, 07:14:16 am
IM NOT GOING TO BE SPLITTING THE BUSINESS INTO TWO SEPERATE BUSINESSES!!!!!!!

Best decision....well done :)
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Paolo on July 21, 2011, 09:08:10 am
If you want to grow, you have to charge VAT, end of story. Of course you have to pay the VAT bill but you are not as it is the customer who is paying the VAT, think of yourself as a Gov. cashier.

You could go down the Ltd Co. route but you need to be more clued up on tax regs first. There are some great tax breaks but there are increased accountancy costs etc etc

Your wife and you CAN run two businesses from the same address but you can NOT unless they are Ltd. as the VAT threshold would be on your total turnover.

As for both companies using the same equipment??? Err, no, you'll be fine as I have never climbed a ladder to clean carpets.
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Ian Rochester on July 21, 2011, 01:04:20 pm
Richy

I've got my Prowler for sale, it's at Restormate at the moment getting all checked over.

It's a "ready to go" set up, comes with 250 or 400ltr water tank, machine, 50' x2" vac hose (with 10' x 1.5" whip line), 50' vac hose, two jet bypass wand. 

If you're looking for TM performance on a budget then this is the set up you need

Total Price £3,500+vat

Call me on 07790596782
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: richywilts on July 21, 2011, 09:51:29 pm
CHEERS IAN WILL GIVE U A CALL TMOZ
Title: Re: adding carpet cleaning to our window cleaning
Post by: Gabriel Nagy on July 22, 2011, 11:20:21 pm
How do they work together?ok? I started to do driveway cleaning along carpets and filled up some days.