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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pure Glass on July 18, 2011, 09:28:00 pm

Title: first tax year
Post by: Pure Glass on July 18, 2011, 09:28:00 pm
Wonder if you could help guys-really bugging me

We started trading apr 11 and will be due our first tax bill nxt year payable by jan 13.

My worry is how much should I be putting by for tax? I know that my first tax bill wil be 11/12 and nxt 6 months in advance.

Both me and my wife work in the business, so our cut off is 7.5k this year.

This is really worrying me though

Thanks guys

Steve
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Steve_c on July 18, 2011, 09:32:00 pm
For every £100 you earn, put away £20/30 that should cover it.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Smudger on July 18, 2011, 09:38:10 pm
hi - are you and your wife in a business partnership - if so isn't your allowance about 14k? Like Steve £30 per hundred shouldn't see you wrong, you may even have a bit of a fund over
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Pure Glass on July 18, 2011, 09:46:27 pm
Yeh, we're registered as partnership.

Just scares me a bit as I've always been employed

Should I save 20/30 quid once we hit our allowance, or on everything we've earnt this year?
 
Steve
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Frankybadboy on July 18, 2011, 09:48:23 pm
everything you earned mate,better to be on safe side.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: NJWindowCleaning on July 18, 2011, 10:39:54 pm
You could use this site: http--listentothetaxman.com-index.php and you put in married and how much your yearly, Monthly, Weekly or even Daily that you get paid or you have earnt for that period and it will work it out for you and inaddition it is a free site to use... :) :)
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: edward1 on July 18, 2011, 10:46:15 pm
as above id say save about 1/3 of your money and u should have some left to put asside for your next bill .then it just goes on and on forever . ;D
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: RO-Sheen on July 18, 2011, 11:13:10 pm
Also, something to think about. All of the tools you have bought, van, uniform, advertising, stationary, fuel are all tax deductable as long as you have kept your receipts or proof of purchase. ie All of these costs added together will be deducted from your total sales and you will only be taxed on the remaining balance.
You might even end up with a tax rebate!!  ;D
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 19, 2011, 06:19:18 am
Wonder if you could help guys-really bugging me

We started trading apr 11 and will be due our first tax bill nxt year payable by jan 13.

My worry is how much should I be putting by for tax? I know that my first tax bill wil be 11/12 and nxt 6 months in advance.

Both me and my wife work in the business, so our cut off is 7.5k this year.

This is really worrying me though

Thanks guys

Steve

It's likely that you have quite a few startup costs to offset against the tax bill so it might be that you will have a surprisingly small bill.  Remember that even if you are working from a vehicle that you already owned before starting up, you can bring some of its value into the business towards expenses.
My advice to you, and it was the same (good) advice that was given to me.  GET AN ACCOUNTANT !!  As a sole trader with simple accounts I'm paying about £250 a year.  For a partnership it may be more.  You don't need the accountant to be chartered.  The accountancy fee is tax deductible if you are self employed.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 19, 2011, 07:46:58 am
A a rule I work on the principle that I draw 50% of my turnover as wages.
The remaining 50% stays in the bank for expenses and tax.

DOnt forget that your first Jan payment will be for all your tax plus 50% toward the current year, you pay the other 50% in the July.

Then the following year you pay a balancing payment on any increase in profit plus your payment on account. For a growing business this balancing payment can sting.

My advice is to always get a business account or at least a dedicated personal account.
And never to pay in wages more than 50% of turnover. After 2-3 years the bank balance will be healthy and allow you a bonus or reinvestment.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 19, 2011, 08:22:47 am
Lets say you turn over £25k first year after expences lets say £20k.

Roughly £6k each before tax

Leaving £8k taxable at what will be about 30% inc class 4

In Jan 2013 your first payment will be £2400 for year 11/12 Plus another 50% for 12/13 so a total of £3600 the other 50% £1200 payable in July

If you only ever turn over the same it will remain about the same.

However if you turn over £3k more your payments will go up to Jan 2014 £1650 plus the balancing payment of £900 total £2550. July 2014 £1650

The pattern continues this way.

The first and subsequent balancing payments need to be looked at closely and saved for.

How much out of your turnover are you saving right now?

Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Pure Glass on July 19, 2011, 08:28:14 am
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 19, 2011, 08:31:51 am
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo

I think you get a % each year for capital expenses. So yes but not all of it is my guess.

Get a good accountant if you think he is poo!
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 19, 2011, 08:35:09 am
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo

Your £600 a month is about right if you expect £6k expenses a year for the Jan2013 payment of just over £10k
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 19, 2011, 09:08:21 am
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo

I think you get a % each year for capital expenses. So yes but not all of it is my guess.

Get a good accountant if you think he is poo!

I don't know the current situation but the rules changed a few years ago allowing you to offset larger items in their first year if you wanted to (cap of £25k).  Presumably you can offset the proportion that most suits you between the old way (25% in first year) and the new way (100% up to £25k).  Indeed, for some start ups it may be essential to offset a much bigger chunk in order to make the payment on account that might otherwise put people off starting a new venture.
This is why I said to get a (non poo) accountant as they should be up to speed with any rule changes as they happen.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 19, 2011, 09:11:09 am
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo

£3k a month after starting in April?  That's some going.  Did you buy some of the work in to help you get started?
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Pure Glass on July 19, 2011, 10:03:47 am
Canvassed the lot from scratch

Still some naff stuff to weed out, but I've worked really hard and acheived the sort of t/o I wanted in 3 months, where as I'd planned to do it in 5.

Rewarding myself with a nice 2 wk hol to cornwall which I didn't think I'd get

Thanks for all your help lads-it really has settled the old loaf. Ta

Steve
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 19, 2011, 10:14:38 am
Canvassed the lot from scratch

Still some naff stuff to weed out, but I've worked really hard and acheived the sort of t/o I wanted in 3 months, where as I'd planned to do it in 5.

Rewarding myself with a nice 2 wk hol to cornwall which I didn't think I'd get

Thanks for all your help lads-it really has settled the old loaf. Ta

Steve

If you canvassed that lot from scratch since April, you deserve that break.  That really is some going.  I don't have £3k a months worth and I've been at it 20 years (I do take additional income from subbying though).  That's not to say that I couldn't have got more work if I had wanted it.  The work I've given away, dropped/dumped over the years could possibly have made up two bad rounds (which is why I stopped doing them).  It's taken a lot of filtering to have a reasonable round of (mostly) reasonable  customers.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Ian101 on July 19, 2011, 08:31:22 pm
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo

I think you get a % each year for capital expenses. So yes but not all of it is my guess.

Get a good accountant if you think he is poo!

I don't know the current situation but the rules changed a few years ago allowing you to offset larger items in their first year if you wanted to (cap of £25k).  Presumably you can offset the proportion that most suits you between the old way (25% in first year) and the new way (100% up to £25k).  Indeed, for some start ups it may be essential to offset a much bigger chunk in order to make the payment on account that might otherwise put people off starting a new venture.
This is why I said to get a (non poo) accountant as they should be up to speed with any rule changes as they happen.

This year is the last year u can write big stuff like a van and or system  off in 1 year ... Im hoping for a tax refund for my 1st year as I have a van and system to write off in 1st year  ;D ... worry about next year err next year
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 19, 2011, 10:53:26 pm
I'm turning over around 3k a month, putting away around 600 quid a month at the month

Another question though is that I bought all my equipment in March this year, whilst I was still employed. Is that deductable from 2011/12 tax bill?

I have an accountant but he's a bit poo

I think you get a % each year for capital expenses. So yes but not all of it is my guess.

Get a good accountant if you think he is poo!

I don't know the current situation but the rules changed a few years ago allowing you to offset larger items in their first year if you wanted to (cap of £25k).  Presumably you can offset the proportion that most suits you between the old way (25% in first year) and the new way (100% up to £25k).  Indeed, for some start ups it may be essential to offset a much bigger chunk in order to make the payment on account that might otherwise put people off starting a new venture.
This is why I said to get a (non poo) accountant as they should be up to speed with any rule changes as they happen.

This year is the last year u can write big stuff like a van and or system  off in 1 year ... Im hoping for a tax refund for my 1st year as I have a van and system to write off in 1st year  ;D ... worry about next year err next year

I didn't realise it was changing.  What a pity.  That will prevent some people starting their own businesses at a time when the economy needs people to get out there and earn.  I was also intending to get another van at some point and try to get a low tax/tax-free year in order to pay down some debt.  Not to worry.  I'm sure I'll find away around it all.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Smudger on July 20, 2011, 07:22:50 am
Unless it's changed again since 2009 - small companies can write off ALL their expenditure in any tax year (ie total cost of van etc..) you can choose to do it the old fashioned way if you wish
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Pure Glass on July 20, 2011, 07:34:12 am
Ace-thanks smudger

I've got around 7k to write off already this year. Hope it cuts my first bill

Steve
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Mike #1 on July 20, 2011, 07:35:59 am
they are always changing the rules thats why i got myself an accountant , that way i benefit  financially  by claiming for everything  that i can  , and i dont make mistakes with my books which i will be fined for by not keeping proper books,  they fine you for everything these days
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Smudger on July 20, 2011, 07:48:27 am
Pro - totally agree but you should try to keep up with things yourself.

last year was our first and the accountant tried to do the capital dep. on our expenditure which would have
meant a tax bill - we insisted we wanted it off in one go which reduced the bill hugely  ;D

just waiting to see what we have to pay this year .... :'(

Darran
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on July 20, 2011, 10:45:20 am
what type of accountant would people recomend to use for a window cleaning business?
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 20, 2011, 12:24:33 pm
what type of accountant would people recomend to use for a window cleaning business?

One with a good oven.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on July 20, 2011, 05:00:31 pm
what type of accountant would people recomend to use for a window cleaning business?

One with a good oven.

okay, gas or electric? what about trouser waist size? does this matter much or should i be more intersted in the colour of the socks he wears on wednesdays?  :)

thanks for the sarky response!  ;)

but any real answers welcome!  ;D
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 20, 2011, 06:25:38 pm
what type of accountant would people recomend to use for a window cleaning business?

One with a good oven.

okay, gas or electric? what about trouser waist size? does this matter much or should i be more intersted in the colour of the socks he wears on wednesdays?  :)

thanks in advance for the sarky response!  ;)

but any real answers welcome!  ;D

OK.  The serious reply this time  ;D
I'm sure you wouldn't want your books burned to a crisp anyway.

I'm a sole trader.
The accountant I have is reasonably priced (c. £250 a year) but I do make it pretty easy for him.
He is not chartered.
At the last count, he had never had any run-ins with HMRC.
I've been a loyal customer and been with him since I started (20 years).  What I'm saying here is that if you find one that seems OK, stick with him/her.
Also, I know from our conversations that he would be fine about doing a payroll and VAT returns, and would have no problem with any expansion of my business - if I ever decide to go in that direction.
He's OK about me picking his brains on some issues though I imagine that if I took up loads of his time he would want to charge for this (no problem with that).
If there are any odd looking items in the expenditure list, he asks me about them rather than just deleting.  I never put anything in there unless I can reasonably regard it (or a proportion of it) as a business expense anyway.  By odd items that may be a bit unusual I mean things like sunglasses (safety device due to looking up more with WFP), a heater and duvet (to avoid water freeze-ups), key cutting, bicycle pump (for trolley tyres), fee to be weighed on weighbridge (I needed to check how much water I could put in the tank when I first got the van)  etc etc.   So long as I can show that it is for work he is fine with it.

So ask the accountant questions based on where you think you might want to go with this business.
Chartered will usually cost a lot more but is probably unnecessary.  It used to be that if you were a limited company you had to go chartered.  I believe that this was changed a few years ago though.
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on July 20, 2011, 10:16:33 pm
what type of accountant would people recomend to use for a window cleaning business?

One with a good oven.

okay, gas or electric? what about trouser waist size? does this matter much or should i be more intersted in the colour of the socks he wears on wednesdays?  :)

thanks in advance for the sarky response!  ;)

but any real answers welcome!  ;D

OK.  The serious reply this time  ;D
I'm sure you wouldn't want your books burned to a crisp anyway.

I'm a sole trader.
The accountant I have is reasonably priced (c. £250 a year) but I do make it pretty easy for him.
He is not chartered.
At the last count, he had never had any run-ins with HMRC.
I've been a loyal customer and been with him since I started (20 years).  What I'm saying here is that if you find one that seems OK, stick with him/her.
Also, I know from our conversations that he would be fine about doing a payroll and VAT returns, and would have no problem with any expansion of my business - if I ever decide to go in that direction.
He's OK about me picking his brains on some issues though I imagine that if I took up loads of his time he would want to charge for this (no problem with that).
If there are any odd looking items in the expenditure list, he asks me about them rather than just deleting.  I never put anything in there unless I can reasonably regard it (or a proportion of it) as a business expense anyway.  By odd items that may be a bit unusual I mean things like sunglasses (safety device due to looking up more with WFP), a heater and duvet (to avoid water freeze-ups), key cutting, bicycle pump (for trolley tyres), fee to be weighed on weighbridge (I needed to check how much water I could put in the tank when I first got the van)  etc etc.   So long as I can show that it is for work he is fine with it.

So ask the accountant questions based on where you think you might want to go with this business.
Chartered will usually cost a lot more but is probably unnecessary.  It used to be that if you were a limited company you had to go chartered.  I believe that this was changed a few years ago though.


thanks for that paul! i really appreciate your time and advice mate!

thanks again

GB
Title: Re: first tax year
Post by: SunShineCleaning on July 21, 2011, 08:24:02 am
they are always changing the rules thats why i got myself an accountant , that way i benefit  financially  by claiming for everything  that i can  , and i dont make mistakes with my books which i will be fined for by not keeping proper books,  they fine you for everything these days

Which is the best reason to get an accountant, I'm obviously out of date with my knowledge.