Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: king marko on July 12, 2011, 09:08:46 pm
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hi - currently in negotiations to buy a round near me.the chaps only got last years accounts (says he doesnt keep them after the tax man has done his bit???) also says theres a few grand difference in what shows on the accounts and round sheets because he 'loses' it so the tax man doesnt see it? just want to know if this is normal in the window cleaning game really?? seems a nice bloke and the round looks good on paper so just need advice on what questions to ask really.(1st time ive bought a round). thanks
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Knock some random doors on the list and ask them,also offer to work it once besides him so u can see all custies,
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losing work is normal, but you have to keep your tax records for 7 years, not till after tax man has finished with it
go around with him to some custy of ur choice or offer to work the round with him and split 50/50 and get to meet the custys as any fake ones wont get done
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also says theres a few grand difference in what shows on the accounts and round sheets because he 'loses' it so the tax man doesnt see it? just want to know if this is normal in the window cleaning game really??
It is mate, its a known fact most window cleaners are crooks. If i was you i wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, you never know the money he is syphoning off could be going towards organised crime, people trafficking and drugs. Don't get involved. Just buy off a bona fide trader.
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If he "loses" some for the taxman he must run 2 sets of books so he knows where he stands. ask to see them
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ask him about who gives him the most tips . if he says old timer caribbean then hes telling the truth,if says the injuns then hes not ! (for sure)
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losing work is normal, but you have to keep your tax records for 7 years, not till after tax man has finished with it
go around with him to some custy of ur choice or offer to work the round with him and split 50/50 and get to meet the custys as any fake ones wont get done
ive been to see him and the reason hes selling is due to ill health - which i kind of believe. hes currently got two guys working three days a week on it - because hes paying wages its not really earning for him. if i buy it one of lads is staying on with me to help for a month or so. does this sound any better?he also said because of data protection he wont let me see any custy details
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Sounds a bit sus to me. be VERY careful
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I would be very carefull with this one too.
A man like this should have two sets of books. It may be that he wont let anyone see them.
To me its only worth what his books show you
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data protection??
thats cobblers.
If he won't show you the details then avoid - thats what you are buying.
I'll sell you some work but only after you buy it will I tell you where it is and how much its worth. Hows that sound?
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run a mile
if i was selling a round and it had got to this stage, you should of seen the list by now and the prices
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There is no data to protect. Its just addresses and names, you can get that from a phone book ;D ;D
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He won't show u the list till u part with cash?? Walk away mate he should be showing you round and as for the guy staying on to help ?? He could just blag the customers off u when working the work,sounds a bit iffy
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how much work is it and how much he want for it
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He won't show u the list till u part with cash?? Walk away mate he should be showing you round and as for the guy staying on to help ?? He could just blag the customers off u when working the work,sounds a bit iffy
the lad in question is only 18 and doesnt drive. ive seen a list of one of the rounds, and a full list of what hes got in total and it amounts to just over £3500 a month. he wants £18k to include an oldish van and equipment.i believe he has the work just concerned about the iffy bookeeping.
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You need to see list for starters ... then meet the lad ur going to be working with.. then go and meet at least a quarter of the customers then work the round for at least 1 month on a 50/50 split of income then if ur still happy pay up .... oh and make sure u have a deal on the debtors i.e. ideally you want to own the debts for free as will be PIA getting them in possibly depending on how well run the round is .... people who are 2 or 3 cleans behind will possibly (definately) be a cancellation.
If I was selling that amoint of work I would expect to have to do all the above for a genuine buyer ... except my round has no debtors like described above ;D .... ask Bob Plumb about poor paying customers as he has loads of em ;) ;D
how old is the round ?? is it freshly canvassed work ?? if yes then not worth 6 times the clean !!!
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Would you buy anything of value if it had holes in it and no paperwork just because the bloke selling seemed nice???
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Would you buy anything of value if it had holes in it and no paperwork just because the bloke selling seemed nice???
apparently hes had the round for about 8yrs and bought some of it of a bloke that was established 10yrs before - the lad has worked for him for about 1yr - theres an older bloke who does all the driving etc but the seller said to be honest hes better at trad work.he has got a stack of paperwork, was just reluctant to let me have a detailed look (after only just meeting me he possibly was just being a bit careful) im going to see him again tonight with the wife (shes a bit more business savvy than me!!). anything else i need to ask??
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If you only just met i can understand him being carefull as you could be inland revenue.... on the other hand if he was being carefull, he wouldnt have told you about not declaring it all would he.
What you have to remember is that if inland revenue investigate him then there will be a good chance that they will come to you.
I dont know how your paying the £18k and i know its not any of my business, but if your getting a loan, then there is a good chance that the bank may want to see his books - it wont tally up and they wont give you the loan. As said before - none of my business, just wanted to say that for you to think about.
If you do go ahead, you'll need a contract to say that he wont window clean in the next x amount of years within a 10 mile radius of a certain area. It may be illness as to why he is setting up, but its worth covering your back
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if i have read this right , the lad is 18 doenst drive but has had the round ten years and is selling a van with it
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if i have read this right , the lad is 18 doenst drive but has had the round ten years and is selling a van with it
no - the lad is just a self employed worker (along with another guy). theyve been working the round for a while whilst the owner has been having treatment. the 18yr old is a nice lad who knows most of the work.because hes under 25 he cant drive the van.
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ok. just thought it sounded dodgy will you be taking the lad on
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ok. just thought it sounded dodgy will you be taking the lad on
yeah think so - it would benefit me for a couple of months i think
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agree a price, pay deposit, do most of work,settle amount when worked cleaned
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seems alot of money for 3500 a month BE CAREFUL
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is it really a lot for £3500?? i didnt think 5xcleans was too bad if its established. ive seen and been offered rounds upto 10x that were worth much less!!
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IF its all cosher then IMHO the price is about right but u gotta do some due diligence to satisfy yourself ... at the end of the day only u can make the decision :)
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i was looking at this round, but £16,000 was a lot to part with. unless he would take payments on it.
just had a reply from the guy answering question i sent him on monday, but the round has gone from roundsforsale.
so someone may have bought it.
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i was looking at this round, but £16,000 was a lot to part with. unless he would take payments on it.
just had a reply from the guy answering question i sent him on monday, but the round has gone from roundsforsale.
so someone may have bought it.
ive been to his house today and had another lengthy chat - the problem ive got is this - he says its well established (8yrs +) but he has no documents from the tax man at all to prove any of the income. he has shown me paypal account for last three months + some bank statements to prove money is coming in but it just doesnt feel right if he has no self assessments or tax returns. am i being a bit daft??
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if it was me and i was wellign the rounds, i would able to show you at least cleaning roaters or take you to some of the longest custys i have to prove it has been around 8 years, even if there is no tax returns he should still be able to prove the business more than 3 months, as i know of a scam where wc would knock a round sell it on saying it was years old and it was only there second clean
if he was genuine then he wouldnt have a problem takeing you to custys
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16,000 k is alot of money it may well be ok but if it was me no paperwork .not intrested .it would be different if it was a couple of grand
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i was looking at this round, but £16,000 was a lot to part with. unless he would take payments on it.
just had a reply from the guy answering question i sent him on monday, but the round has gone from roundsforsale.
so someone may have bought it.
ive been to his house today and had another lengthy chat - the problem ive got is this - he says its well established (8yrs +) but he has no documents from the tax man at all to prove any of the income. he has shown me paypal account for last three months + some bank statements to prove money is coming in but it just doesnt feel right if he has no self assessments or tax returns. am i being a bit daft??
No you are not being daft.
In all honesty self assessment forms and tax returns are nobodies business except the tax mans, SE guy and his accountant.
But this guy can't prove that this work is well established from what you've said. Where are his certified accounts for the past whatever years, even if he has got rid of them his accountant would still hold them.
I think your gut feeling is saying no (mine would be) and I think you should go with it.....or at least speak with your accountant about it.
The 18 year old is SE? Then you don't have to offer him work.
By the way are you buying a business or just a window cleaning round? :)
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if it was me and i was wellign the rounds, i would able to show you at least cleaning roaters or take you to some of the longest custys i have to prove it has been around 8 years, even if there is no tax returns he should still be able to prove the business more than 3 months, as i know of a scam where wc would knock a round sell it on saying it was years old and it was only there second clean
if he was genuine then he wouldnt have a problem takeing you to custys
thanks guys - going with gut feeling and pulled out :(
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if it was me and i was wellign the rounds, i would able to show you at least cleaning roaters or take you to some of the longest custys i have to prove it has been around 8 years, even if there is no tax returns he should still be able to prove the business more than 3 months, as i know of a scam where wc would knock a round sell it on saying it was years old and it was only there second clean
if he was genuine then he wouldnt have a problem takeing you to custys
thanks guys - going with gut feeling and pulled out :(
Well done Mark, the right choice I think
Lee
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Just out of interest is the round owner called Justin, knew a bloke in a similar position??
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Just out of interest is the round owner called Justin, knew a bloke in a similar position??
his name was matt mate