Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 08:24:47 pm

Title: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 08:24:47 pm
Just booked a demo for two weeks time with Tucker poles,Coming round to the house,Do they put a lot of pressure on you to buy their stuff?

Would like to here from anyone whos had a demo.

I have had my van deliverd last week and am now looking at tank set up.Tucker poles seam to make a good tank.Hence the demo to check it out.

Anyone got them or other proffesionlly fitted tank to reccomend?

Cheers nel.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Philip Hanson on October 17, 2005, 09:00:34 pm
Demos are absolutely essential to buying a WFP system.  Remember, you are about to spend a significant sum of money on an asset that must be reliale.

Tucker, as a company, have a very good reputation and I doubt that you'll be anything but impressed by their systems. 

Because WFP is relatively new, rather than 'hard sell' you'll probably find that whoever comes to demo will be more likely to spend the time trying to explain how the systems work, and how they differ from others available.  You have a choice, not just between manufacturers, but you also need to choose a specific product from a manufacturers range, and the demo will help you to do that.

Demos are nothing to be afraid of, and I would recommend that anyone getting a system insists on a demo from as many suppliers as they can find.  If a company won't come to you to do a demo, then really that tells you all you need to know about them, and I wouldn't even think about spending money with them.

-Philip
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 17, 2005, 09:19:49 pm
Demos are absolutely essential to buying a WFP system. 
-Philip

I'm not sure about that, Philip.  Before I purchased mine, I read many posts in this forum and was introduced to  Ian_Giles's set up and I saw another local window cleaner's WFP system.

I didn't require a demo.  It wasn't essential for my needs.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: poles apart on October 17, 2005, 09:24:25 pm
If you are going to spend thousands of pounds on a van or trailer system then a demo is essential, but if it's just a backpack or trolley then do what Tosh did - listened to Wor Lass!
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: gaza on October 17, 2005, 10:06:34 pm
tUCKER POLE: GOT ONE DONE DEMO PAID THE BILL ,NO HARD SELL TO ME IT SOLD ITS SELF.MAKE SURE YOU GET EVERY QUESTION OUT YOU NEED TO ASK.
IF ITS DANIEL HOW GIVES YOU A DEMO REMIND ME TO HIM GARY FROM NOTTM SAW HIM AT NEC.

make sure you are explained the ro system v di system and ask him for a tds reading before you make your mind up,when youve got your tds reading place it on here and people will tell you the best way to go there di or ro system.

 gaza
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 17, 2005, 10:08:31 pm
If you are going to spend thousands of pounds on a van or trailer system then a demo is essential, but if it's just a backpack or trolley then do what Tosh did - listened to Wor Lass!

What about the lads (and I can name two from this forum) who've purchased large van-mounted systems with a heavy water carrying capacity; then found it was far too much for their needs?

Maybe they had a demo from some silver-tongued salesman?

I've recently read one post in which one of the 'lads' said he'd wasted thousands of pounds and now is making more money just using a WFP back pack.

I don't think a 'demo' is essential as Philip suggested, but I do think that you should ask advice on this forum before spending thousands of pounds on any piece of equipment.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: poles apart on October 17, 2005, 10:32:32 pm
Tosh
I agree that advice on this forum is priceless but I still think if you are going to spend a lot of money you need to see what it is your getting. You would'n't buy a car on someones advice only. You'd have a test drive first. As for buying large van mounted systems, I did this and it  was far too much capacity at first but I just went out and got more work! That's what it's all about 'aint it?

I say get the biggest and best you can afford and it will last years!
Rod
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 10:35:42 pm
Thanks for the advice.

The chaps name from tuker is called Dan, but unsure of his last name.

Iwill write down everything to ask him.

But looking into this wfp system his taking a lot of time as I want to get it right. My biggest worry is that I wont actually enjoy cleaning windows with it, I'll end up regretting buying the Van,and all the equpment. And veiw it as a white elephant.

The biggest plus for me being a w/cleaner is comming home and forggetting about work.No worry no stress and earning good money to boot.With out a doubt w/ cleaning has been great for me.

But am I about to sell my soul. nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 10:47:37 pm
Cheers tosh,

I have enough work for 4 full days a week for me and my lad doing it tradionaly.98% domestic work So i have set my sights on a 800ltr tank max. Should last us both through the day with just a small top up needed now and again. i aiming to clean ups and downs with it and getting lots of extra jobs to do.

So i,m hopeing its a big enough tank for two with out the need to upgrade.As i know one lad uses 600ltrs a day.And if I go back on my own its plenty big enough as our lass would say.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Philip Hanson on October 17, 2005, 10:57:28 pm
Hmm, perhaps "essential" is the wrong word.  Demos are not, of course, essential.  There's nothing to stop you buying a system without one.

But I would definately recommend them, after all what have you got to lose?

Quote
I do think that you should ask advice on this forum before spending thousands of pounds on any piece of equipment.
Window cleaning forums are great, and as a source of information they are 1st class.  However, with the greatest respect Tosh, - asking questions on forums is not a guaranteed way to get good advice.  There are plenty of times I have seen threads on forums where people have given factually inaccurate and even dangerous advice, albeit well-meaning.

In my opinion, (and it is just that) there are many choices with WFP that simply come down to personal preference.  For example, some time ago I spent a day working with Paul C Smith who uses Omnipole poles. (Made from aluminium)  I use fibre-glass poles.  I tried his omnipoles, he tried the fibre glass.  Now for me, I prefered the fibre glass becasue the clamps are easier to use.  Paul, though wasn't much bothered about the clamps, and preferred the omnipoles because the sections are narrower, and therefore easier to grip.

Now both are very good poles and serve the purpose, but which one is the best for you really does depend on personal preference. The only way that you'll know which you like better is to try them out, and demos will allow you to do that.

Even a question like RO versus DI in a hard-water area.  Some might think that's a no-brainer.  Ask advice on a forum which you should go for, and everyone will say RO.  But this is not necessarily the best option, even for hard water.

I know of a window cleaner who chose a simple DI system even though living in a hard water area because he didn't like the idea of it having to fill up overnight.  He couldn't care less about it using more resin, for him this was more important.

-Philip
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 11:01:00 pm
Sound advice that Phill,

Who else gives demos anyway?
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: poles apart on October 17, 2005, 11:03:38 pm
Sound advice that Phill,

Who else gives demos anyway?
Quote

Ionic Systems
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 11:11:05 pm
Is that it , Ioincs and tucker?

I'm off to Brodex this week at Southport if it rains, to check their Tank and pole Systems out.

Anyone recommend them, Or even Skypole.

Cheers nel.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Philip Hanson on October 17, 2005, 11:12:25 pm
Other companes who (I think) do demos are:

Stream, Brodex, Pure2o, Omnipole, probably concept2o in wales, and no doubt Aquatec in Scotland, and yes Skypole do as well.

Most of the well known manufacturers will

-Phil
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 17, 2005, 11:23:03 pm
Cheers Phill,

Looks like I'll be fixing myself up with some demos.

I take it from what i've read on the forum that Ioincs have some of the best stuff but a little bit on the pricey side.

Are ioincs tanks anygood?

Would I be right in thinking that a tank from a top manufactury fitted will give me a lot less problems when i start with wfp system?

Nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: poles apart on October 17, 2005, 11:30:55 pm
Quote
Are ioincs tanks anygood?

Would I be right in thinking that a tank from a top manufactury fitted will give me a lot less problems when i start with wfp system?

Nel

Ionic make a good system though I'm not sure if a 'lesser'system would give you more problems as they're all pretty straight forward. The most important thing though is if you get a large tank make sure it's baffled and professionally fitted. I know someone who diy fitted a 1000 litre tank (unbaffled) in the back of his van and had the shock of his life the first time he had to brake hard!
Good luck with the demo's
Rod
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: gaza on October 18, 2005, 12:20:12 am
be all and end all buy a trolly  system forget van mount ,bought van mount spent all day gathering up hoses on domestics running it around hedges,garden gates.van mount is for commercial trolly mount for domestics every time.

 gaza
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: telboy on October 18, 2005, 11:38:47 am
NEIL 800 LITRES SHOULD LAST BOTH OF  YOU ALL WEEK

UNLESS YOU WORK 24-7

TEL BOY ;)



Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: sair on October 18, 2005, 02:37:42 pm
essentially pure ltd will also do demos,01435 873555   07944227635
our systems are very well priced  starting from 2350- 4100 for a twin r/o boostered system that will produce in the range of 4-5.5 liters aminute on a van mount . all have split relay charge and encased in stainless steel frames  we also provide speed lining service in house

or you can come and check out or unit in east sussex .
there are three or four on this site or the other who have our systems ,if you would like recomendation just do a posting for there comments
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 18, 2005, 07:21:32 pm
Tel boy,

Abit o t t  their in our calculations, a week; If it lasts me a day i'll be happy. My freind as a 125ltr tank and uses 4 fills a day. His work is domestic but he can earn between £300 & £400 a day. Hes good and quick.


Tony,

DO essentially pure have a website with pics?

I'll ring tommorw for a demo.

Thanks,nel.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: sair on October 19, 2005, 04:48:04 pm
web site a few weeks away i have shut down instalations for a week just to sort out office for winter and start web sit please feel free to call 01435873555 0794427635 or i can e mail photos     my e mail is purewatersales@tiscali.co.uk
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: brookie12 on October 19, 2005, 06:47:29 pm
i had a demo by sky pole from southampton and it was the nuts and i orderd a trailer from them.

as i waited for the trailer i changed my mind and wanted to buy there demo van, but  what a company thay told me that i should walk before i can run

all i have to say is give skypole in southampton a ring thay are a top company and at a very good price.

all the best

brookie
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 19, 2005, 06:54:59 pm
Sos Tony,

Not had time to call today,Weather has been good up here today.So put a full days hard graft in.If you want to email the pics and prices my e mail is,  neillawlor@tiscali co.uk.

Cheers Nel.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 19, 2005, 07:07:20 pm
Cheers Brookie,

I was on the phone to stuart from Skypole yesterday. Very impressed with his telephone manner, and the fact that he never slaged off any of his competitors. He firmly belevies in the quality of his products and very knoweldgable.

I live 30 miles south of the lake district, and hes willing to come up and give me a free demo even though it means staying in an hotel overnight. Impresive.

What did you think of their tank system Brookie?

Did you buy poles, etc as well?

Did you buy their demo van then?

Anyone else recommend skypole?

Thanks Nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Old_Master on October 21, 2005, 12:11:31 am
Its funny but we have never really had to travel to carry out demos for many years, nor have we had to "sell" our systems.
Our demonstrations are always on our own jobs, where our window cleaners teach the customer how to do the job with as little effort or fuss as possible.
Our customers can stay as long as they like learning about doing the work at different types of jobs.
Many customers come for a full day or two the longest a customer has been with our team was two weeks!!.
The two week customer travelled 120 miles every day working along side our guys from 7.30 in the morning until 4.30 in the afternoon learning everything he could from them and checking with our customers that they were happy with wfp and checking glass to ensure it really was clean.
Once he had totally mastered the techniques and was totally confident the Omnipole system would work for him he placed his order, confident he could come back any time and learn from guys who do wfp work every day.
This way seems to work for our customers.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: brett walker on October 21, 2005, 11:00:28 am
Watched Rogue Traders last night on BBC1, i know they was'nt selling window cleaning equipment but if you watched the programme thats what you call hard sell  ::)

Brett
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 22, 2005, 11:04:30 pm
Wow.

Went to Brodex at Southport on Friday<First impresions wernt good, Due to its location which was down an allyway, it felt like going to phill mitchells garage out of Eastenders.

Once inside Things improved rapidly,fourtantly I got to look round A transit van that Had just been fitted out with their 3G 650 RO tank.Protecta-kote van floor done as well.Hoses,poles, the works.

I know their stuff is pricey£4895.00 +vat for the tank to be fitted in the van.But its a work of art, it should be in the taite gallery as an Art exhibit its that awe inspiring to look at.wow;;

I cant afford it really,so I might have to sell my body on the street to make some extra cash.The guy who owns the tanny van is from London so he will be well pleased when he sees it.

Their was no hard sell,just practical and helpfull advice,

But i now dream of their tanks, sad I know.

Nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: busydaffodil on October 22, 2005, 11:09:20 pm
Sometimes first impressions are not right.   
I'm sure you'll get what you want eventually.
Glad you have found what your looking for.

Lizzy
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: matt on October 23, 2005, 05:54:29 pm
I allways find these questions funny

you have allready decided to get WFP system

now the choice really inst important, whoever you call or have a demo with will tell you the same

Our system is the best, X and Y's system isnt as good as ours

a Van mount is :

a big tank
a pump
a variflow unit
some connections
some hose
a pole
a brush
and a RO or DI unit

get where i am coming from ?? ?? ??
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Andrew McCann on October 23, 2005, 06:16:21 pm
I get where you are coming from Matt.

However, one or two points.

A professional company will NEVER say "our stuff is the best and X's isn't as good" What they do is point out the benefits of their system to the prospective customer. Just as it sounds like it happened in Neils case. ( Or is it Nel)  ???

Re the tank. It should be baffled, and in my opinion professionally fitted. NO WAY do I want 6-7-8 or a thousand Kilos carrying on at a high rate of travel if I stop suddenly.

There is a guy around my way working out of a van with a 1000ltr IBC strapped down. Yes he has saved money but it may cost him or others their lives. Some things are better left to those who can do the job and guarantee it.

As to the rest.. I agree.

So if I were to go van mount I would go to a well recognised and reputable company to get the tank fitted and probably do the rest myself.

Andrew


Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: matt on October 23, 2005, 06:26:39 pm
I get where you are coming from Matt.

However, one or two points.

A professional company will NEVER say "our stuff is the best and X's isn't as good"



you have never seen any of brodex's posts then  ::)
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Andrew McCann on October 23, 2005, 06:28:58 pm
 :-X   ;)   ;D
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: matt on October 23, 2005, 06:47:01 pm
 ;) ;D
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 23, 2005, 07:28:18 pm
Andey,

Its Neil, Nel his my nickname.

Thanks for Your reply,The only reason I,m asking abut demos is that I have three demos booked in the next three weeks. I know they all are going to recommend their own systems, But Logic dictates I ask how others have got on in the past.

I've got 26 years experince as a w/cleaner, made a good living and raised a family,
I now want to clean windows as safetly as I can,hence wfp.

My freinds who have allready converted to wfp say I will hate it for 3 or 4 months, I know that, but I dont want to waste money buying a Micky mouse system. I am well aware what damage  a badly fixed tank can do,

I want to buy a system that looks right,Only adding a mobile unit if it means I will be more effecient, which means more money. Your mobile system looks well designed and made,its a credit to you.

Regards Nel.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: brookie12 on October 23, 2005, 07:37:21 pm
neil mate i got the lot from sky pole and thay did me a top deal would highly recomend them to any one i got a 400ltr trailer and 3 poles 200m of hose and loads of bits and bobs top stuff
like a cat that got the cream..... :)
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 23, 2005, 07:50:09 pm
O right Brookie mate,

yep I had a chat on the phone with stuart from skypole,He's willing to travel up to the norhwest to give me a demo.

HE said he would email me some pics of the tank in the demo van,and send me a brouchure,None arrived.

Did you manage to knock some money off their list price.
You were impressed with their van set up, But did you look at any other van setups?
How far do you live from Southampton?

Cheers Nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Andrew McCann on October 23, 2005, 09:32:39 pm
Gotcha now Nel mate  ;D

Thanks for the compliment about the Freedom trolley, it's selling like hot cakes!!! So much so that I am still using the original prototype.. I can't get the "finished" product made for myself at the mo  :(

Yes I know what your mates mean. The first time around was like learning the whole thing over again.. where to put this.. where to put that etc but we now absolutely flyyyyyyyyy around. What used to take us 4 weeks now takes us under 3!!!  And that's doing mainly 1st floor upwards only with the trolley system so we are now knocking etc to get another weeks worth of work.

I can understand exactly why you want to go and get a "ready made" package. Image.. guarantees.. back up etc all cost money but can be well worth the investment.

Whatever system you go for respect to you for having the commitment to do this for your safety and business.

Andrew
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 25, 2005, 05:24:00 pm
Just had ionics demo at home, cracking bit of kit. tanks ,poles the lot.

No hard sell,just sound and practical advice.Loved their tank as well.

It costs about £650.00 to have the tank fitted, about the same as brodex.Including side ports fitted.

Just got skypole and tuker poles to see then  i will decide.

Nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: brookie12 on October 25, 2005, 06:29:35 pm
neil mate i live 45 mins from them and no i sort of new what i wanted the vn sytems are fantastic but i also nee my van for all my other gear as i run a cleaning company not just window cleaning so the trailer was the way ahead for me
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 25, 2005, 06:55:31 pm
Hi Brookie mate,

Thanks for reply,

Skypole have emailed me the photos at last,and a brouchere is on the way from them.Expecet a demo next week from them, theirs another chap who lives in lancaster who wants a demo as well,so tyey want to do us both on the same day.

Had Ionics demo today,cracking kit but pricey.

You never know I might in your neck of the woods for a day if I choose skypole.

Cheers Nel.
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: brookie12 on October 25, 2005, 09:27:53 pm
nice one mate if so give me a bell on 07775504896
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 26, 2005, 06:08:32 pm
Will do my son ,will do.

Nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: macleod on October 26, 2005, 10:03:27 pm
hi everyone.... just a thought, but when i had a demo (ionic) i actually got them to demo on a prospective customer site... then the day before and on the day i went round all the other local companies and got the H&S or Facilitity managers to come for the 'grand viewing' - and ended up with work at the value of £3000 per year...
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: neil100 on October 26, 2005, 11:00:55 pm
But did you buy the ionics system?

nel
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: macleod on October 27, 2005, 03:58:37 pm
short answer... yes
long answer... yes i did
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: Philip Hanson on October 27, 2005, 05:54:51 pm
Quote
hi everyone.... just a thought, but when i had a demo (ionic) i actually got them to demo on a prospective customer site... then the day before and on the day i went round all the other local companies and got the H&S or Facilitity managers to come for the 'grand viewing' - and ended up with work at the value of £3000 per year...

what a great idea!  No wonder it paid off!

-Phil
Title: Re: Are demos hardsell?
Post by: stuart webster on February 15, 2006, 07:56:24 pm
hi everyone.... just a thought, but when i had a demo (ionic) i actually got them to demo on a prospective customer site... then the day before and on the day i went round all the other local companies and got the H&S or Facilitity managers to come for the 'grand viewing' - and ended up with work at the value of £3000 per year...

Maybe we should bow to his genius.

This was a great idea.