Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jasonl on July 09, 2011, 08:39:21 am
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A few weeks ago I started a poll/topic about marketing costs and spend .
Through this and other research I calculated that each new customer that is not a repeat or referral costs around £40 to aquire . the reason I wanted to discover this £ amount was that I was talking to Groupon about marketing with them .
The deal is up to 20 m2 of carpeting cleaned for £28 , any furthur cleaning is at £2.50m2 Groupon keep 40% of the deal so I get £17 per clean , which equates to £57 when the £40 original marketing cost is added in , plus the opportunity for other work and a regular customer , which in my experience is about a third of all jobs visited.
It is not about making a profit on the first clean , it is about building a customer base.
I can see it would not work for everyone , and that I will make a loss if every job was just the standard £17 , but this is a marketing exercise , and I will cover diesel and materials . I have relocated so have little work anyway .
I spoke to another carpet cleaner who sold 438 deals in a day , and it has provided enough customers to establish his business ongoing .
Sheffield has double the members than his town .
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But if a customer thinks that Groupon is the way they want to 'shop' for services (like the one I mentioned yesterday) and have paid £22 for 2 rooms to be cleaned, why would they come back in 12 months time and pay £88?
Sorry but if I thought I could get a massage done for £8 through groupon there's no way I would get it down in future for 4 times that amount, or any other service I could buy from there.
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Groupon is a proven marketing concept , and once a foot is in the door , people do pay full price , the demographic of groupon customers is of one which matches the customer type I am looking for.
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You have answered your own question.
Dave
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Groupon is a proven marketing concept , and once a foot is in the door , people do pay full price , the demographic of groupon customers is of one which matches the customer type I am looking for.
Of course it's proven from a customers point of view, who wouldn't use it if you can buy something at 65% below normal market price.
From the service providers point of view it has got to be about 'up selling' to make it all worth while. If you are able to sell sell sell then it will suit, but I suspect a lot of people will never use that business again if they think they are going to pay £22 and end up on the day writing out a cheque for £88.
Don't take this wrong, but for it to work you have to use a variation of bait & switch to make it worthwhile. ie turning up cheap walking out rich.
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I will return and report once it goes live , I am only looking for about a third of customers on repeat , that is my expectation , I am simply spending on marketing in a different way .
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A few weeks ago I started a poll/topic about marketing costs and spend .
Through this and other research I calculated that each new customer that is not a repeat or referral costs around £40 to aquire . the reason I wanted to discover this £ amount was that I was talking to Groupon about marketing with them .
The deal is up to 20 m2 of carpeting cleaned for £28 , any furthur cleaning is at £2.50m2 Groupon keep 40% of the deal so I get £17 per clean , which equates to £57 when the £40 original marketing cost is added in , plus the opportunity for other work and a regular customer , which in my experience is about a third of all jobs visited.
It is not about making a profit on the first clean , it is about building a customer base.
I can see it would not work for everyone , and that I will make a loss if every job was just the standard £17 , but this is a marketing exercise , and I will cover diesel and materials . I have relocated so have little work anyway .
I spoke to another carpet cleaner who sold 438 deals in a day , and it has provided enough customers to establish his business ongoing .
Sheffield has double the members than his town .
how long have you been cleaning carpets?
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Been reading about these sites/companies. LivingSocial is another one. They will get work in, but the damage is done to the market by people expecting lower prices. Like alot have pointed out, low prices ruin the market and drop customers expectations in the future.
Alot of rubbish priced jobs isn't better than a few properly priced jobs. After all, we are in this game to earn money, not keep busy. These sites will cause alot of damage in a short space of time.
Hasn't really kicked off here yet, (Germany) but I've read about them in Italy and some Eatern European countries.
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Typically enough the customers perception of value is lowered
dramatically. They see the job done at a low price and percieve
that you are making a profit at that price, so ergo you and others
must be ripping people off at the normal price.
The only people who gain are the customers getting a cheap service.
And Groupon getting rich at YOUR expense.
I've heard of cases where the offer is 50 packages. Only for Groupon
to sell 450, guess who gets the s*~t from the customers when you
cannot physically provide the service in time span on the offer.
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Jason you have it in one, "the demographic you a looking for" you can't really lose IMO.
Shaun
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A few weeks ago I started a poll/topic about marketing costs and spend .
Through this and other research I calculated that each new customer that is not a repeat or referral costs around £40 to aquire . the reason I wanted to discover this £ amount was that I was talking to Groupon about marketing with them .
The deal is up to 20 m2 of carpeting cleaned for £28 , any furthur cleaning is at £2.50m2 Groupon keep 40% of the deal so I get £17 per clean , which equates to £57 when the £40 original marketing cost is added in , plus the opportunity for other work and a regular customer , which in my experience is about a third of all jobs visited.
It is not about making a profit on the first clean , it is about building a customer base.
I can see it would not work for everyone , and that I will make a loss if every job was just the standard £17 , but this is a marketing exercise , and I will cover diesel and materials . I have relocated so have little work anyway .
I spoke to another carpet cleaner who sold 438 deals in a day , and it has provided enough customers to establish his business ongoing .
Sheffield has double the members than his town .
how long have you been cleaning carpets?
21 years but have just relocated , this kind of marketing is the future like it or not .
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well i disagree but good luck anyhoo, hope it works for ya.
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Good luck from me too. I can't see any advantage though.
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Good luck from me too. I can't see any advantage though.
Good ! the more people who cannot see it , the better for the people who can!
In my years as a carpet cleaner , the UK marketing trends ALWAYS follow the USA this is another example , it is not about cheapo council house people wanting a cheap job , it is about people want value.
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What, USA marketing always goes well? OK. That's why Amway got so big then, remember that fiasco?
Points have been made on both sides of the deal. I'm sure that 65% discounts will pull customers, rather the brave than me.
If that was a good deal, all you would need to do was print your own leaflets offering a 50% discount. Fill ya boots Jason.
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Good luck from me too. I can't see any advantage though.
Good ! the more people who cannot see it , the better for the people who can!
In my years as a carpet cleaner , the UK marketing trends ALWAYS follow the USA this is another example , it is not about cheapo council house people wanting a cheap job , it is about people want value.
don't understand J
on one hand your trying to promote your idea on a forum. to encourage others to partake
and then your saying your glad we don't get it and its more for you. confused. ???
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, it is not about cheapo council house people wanting a cheap job , it is about people want value.
How did you come to that conclusion?
Put yourself into the minds of the public who are after some service or other.
If I were to say to you "I would carry out a FULL service of your 57 reg BMW for £22" then what would you expect to happen? It's either going to be a sub standard job or you're going to be sold some form of add on like full valet.
It's also going to attract the people we don't really want to work for. Break it down, £22 for 2 rooms equals what hourly rate after they have taken their commission, and that commission carries on over and above the intial £22?
Years ago I won one of those competitons for a professional photoshoot with a picture thrown in free. There was all the works in way of make up/hair for the wife and the picture (very nice) was 6x4 inches. But of course for x amount extra you can have the full blown pictures in frames. Sound familiar?
I've also just been told that Groupon are going to be investigated by an advertising standards authority as the overall idea of this breaks down to nothing less than bait & switch, but in a new way (Daily telegraph).
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The area to be cleaned is clearly shown on ads , the price for further work is clearly shown , there is no bait and switch here.
The biggest problem service providers have with Groupon is keeping up with demand.
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Hi
Another way of looking at this is that groupon will get you in the door and they may ask for extra areas or a sofa and chairs etc. You don't have to bait and switch.
Martin 8)
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Hi
Another way of looking at this is that groupon will get you in the door and they may ask for extra areas or a sofa and chairs etc. You don't have to bait and switch.
Martin 8)
Exactly
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Good luck with it Jason, be interested to hear your results
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I'm not convinced that groupon is the future for everyone, in the US they have groupon or equivalent and not all cleaners advertise there, groupon is based on getting the bargain of the day and impulse purchasing I don't set my stall out for those customers and get along nicely I'm sure others do also.
Shaun
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the demographic of groupon customers is of one which matches the customer type I am looking for.
As a base form, demographics are statistical characteristics of a population, then sub sectioned into race, gender blad de blad de blah :)
what would your interpretation be of a demographic relating to groupon customers?
we will all have different ideas on this demograph, so do "groupon" theirselves, give you this info and if so where do they collate their info from? :)
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Jason
How long will it take you to do the 20sq metres of carpet for the offer ?
How many can you do in a day ?
How many custys will you get ?
How long are the vouchers valid for ?
What method of cleaning are you using ?
Does the offer exclude stairs ?
Can you set the price for additional areas ?
I can see both points of view nothing ventured nothing gained.
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You don't have to bait and switch.
I never said it was bait & switch I said it was a form of.
The intent is to get through the door of a potential customer who believes they will be getting a specified job done for x amount, and then to upsell on that specified job for get extra work whilst there and purely for that purpose only.
That is clearly different to the customer volunteering without any pressure or subliminal messages to ask for 'extra' work at the full rate.
Any customer with more than 10 brain cells would ask for 2 rooms at £22 one day and then buy (via the web) another 2 rooms at £22 a couple of days later. I really don't get how they would want to pay £22 for 2 rooms and then £122 for a further 2 rooms on the same day.
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The offer is valid for one day only , I will report back
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Be an interesting read, the big picture won't come until you have done all of the work and hopefully re booked extra work or upsold on jobs to calculate the magical number.
Shaun
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theres far better ways to build a customer database quickly. and with a lot more chance of retaining those customers for the future.
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theres far better ways to build a customer database quickly. and with a lot more chance of retaining those customers for the future.
With no cash down , like?
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Jason, I would think that newspaper , local parish mags, leaflets, Facebook or your mums knitting class notice board would be better than cleaning rooms at 22 quid a pop. I never knew the market was so small for carpet cleaning in the UK.
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It is not £22 a "pop" it is 20m2 for £16 , but the customer is free , where to advertise in those other places costs £40 per customer to get in the door. And is a lot slower ,and there is a risk of zero or low returns . This is a guaranteed foot in the door to show what you can do .
I have had an e mail from a regular poster who only sold 80 deals and grossed nearly 5k from his groupon day .
I am not really interested in what I get from the customer on day one , it is the lifetime value of the customer that builds the business that I can then sell on , I have sold 8 cc businesses up to now , 6 are still trading.
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Hi Guys
Anyone can work for nothing, you will get lots of customers but they will not become good paying ones.
I would'nt touch a cheap company for anything important and expect to pay good money for a good product.
Cheers
Doug
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Yeah 5K grossed, but what was the end profit and how much repeat work from that one day? If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
The only way I can see a way to make money at those silly prices are to go into the room, lock the door, turn on the machine for 15 minutes and take my flask out and have a cup of tea. Spray fabric softener about and walk out of the room, look the custy directly in the eye and say "There ya go mate".
Grab the 16 quid and see how fast I can get the gear back in the van and do F1 grid start to get out of sight.
And all that for 16 quid. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Who wants custies that expect a job done for that price. As has been pointed out on this thread already. Surely your business is running well enough without this Yank marketing stuff.
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Well done Jason for at least giving it a go.
This is how I'm reading the thread.......
Someone we know and trust is having a go at a marketing concept we know little about.
He is going to come up with an offer that suits him and his customers and let everyone know how it goes.
If it bombs he'll tell us, if it works we'll never hear the end of it and everyone will be doing it.
The only effort we have to put in is read this thread, think I can just about manage that ( will be even easier if Easter Bunny keeps his thoughts to himself :P).
Doug, thanks to companies like Go Compare people are getting used to trawling the internet for deals and the cheapest price. In this climate everyone is looking to save a few quid, I bet more people are hiring Rug Doctors than ever before. I think it is naive to think everyone will pay top dollar for a good job, sometimes 'it's better than it was' will do, especially if you've saved a hundred quid.
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Hi Guys
The internet is fine for comparing like with like but for a service it also allows yuo to stand above your competitors and charge accordingly.
Cheers
Doug
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Garyj, totally dis-agree there. I agree tha it's good that Jason is willing to jump in and test the water. I like to think that after years of being self employed, I can see a good deal from a bent one. Lot's of cheap work is never good. I've also never felt the need to "Show what I can do".
There are huge cleaning firms in my area. They never need to show what they can do. Why should any firm feel the need to do that?
Groupon might be good for a newbie who needs to find their feet, but for a well run company, it's a good way of selling you cheap to make a profit from your work.
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to answer some of the negative points brought up in this topic...in my opionion.....
If i bought a meal for 2 for £22 from Groupon ( which is an offer i get at least 3 times a week emailed to me)
1) I wouldn't bat an eyelid if i have to pay full price for the desert or wine, just because I'm getting the meal for £22 doesn't mean i expect everything else the resturent offers to be a reduced price.
2) because I'm only paying £22 doesn't make me think the restaurant will not be any good,
3) the next time i want to go out to eat if the restaurant was good I will go back again....... and i will happily pay full price.
groupon lets me try a new restaurant for just £22.
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Yes, but did you order the desert and would you order it next time? How long would it be between visits? How long till you need a carpet cleaner again?
By that time, hopefully, Groupon will be out of business as they spend alot on advertising.
With a restaurant, these deals could be easier to swallow (Excuse that ;D ) but with a service like CC, it would cause more damage, for all the reasons given so far in this thread.
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I always order a desert!!..... its my favorite part :D....... and the restaurants most profitable sale.
and we eat out twice a month, but if I used a groupon carpet cleaner to do 2 rooms I still have 8 rooms and 2 suites that still might need doing in the future.
I agree its not a perfect marketing strategy but with the right conditions it could be used without too much risk
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I always order a desert!!..... its my favorite part :D....... and the restaurants most profitable sale.
and we eat out twice a month, but if I used a groupon carpet cleaner to do 2 rooms I still have 8 rooms and 2 suites that still might need doing in the future.
I agree its not a perfect marketing strategy but with the right conditions it could be used without too much risk
so the question is, have you ever used/bought a groupon deal, and if not, why have you not.
your reply about groupon makes a lot of sense until you delve into it deeper, i'm guessing you and me and most on here are not groupon customers, there a different breed, they thrive on bargains, they don't see the wood for the tree's, just the low pound signs and the big word that says 70% off.
i would say 80% (total stab in the dark that % is) of groupons customers will never be a repeat customer, they'll be too busy searching groupon, cutting out discount vouchers and ringing competitions with questions like.....
what colour is black?
is it
A) black
B) nearly black
C) a tree
if you know the answer call this number 07854690355 and you could win a holiday to the carribean, flight, taxes and hotel room not included. ;D
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I'm not convinced about a long term customer but impulsive customers will (if they like you) will try you out cheaply and then based on what and who they see will be impulsive to have more done, customers who buy for price only may be different.
Shaun
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Whereabouts on the site do you sign up
for what Jason is doing?
I'm logged in but can't find a link.
John
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Email me and ill send you the details for the rep I am dealing with.
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I for one hope it works brilliantly -what a great shortcut to marketing success if it works out!
Good luck Jason
Ashley
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I couldn't work a 65% discount and then hand over 40% of the rest.
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I couldn't work a 65% discount and then hand over 40% of the rest.
Don't do it then!
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You're all looking at this the wrong way. Forget about discounts and what you normally charge.
How long would it take you to clean 2 rooms ? An hour ?
So that's £17 for an hours work - not a fortune granted - but more importantly it's cost you nothing to get that client and from Jason's point of view a new client costs £40 to obtain.
Plus the money is guaranteed.
If you are any good at selling, then once you are in the clients home you can discuss additional work, maybe to be done at a later date. Maybe you could tempt them with a further discounted deal for future work, obviously not as much as the original deal. If these are the type of clients that want a deal then give them what they want. It doesn't automatically follow that because they want a deal, they will have minging carpets.
Plus it doesn't matter how good the offer is, the Groupon client is only going to book it if they happen to need their carpets cleaned at that particular time.
The biggest risk with this type of deal is not being able to cope with a massive influx of work to be done within a limited time frame.
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That's how Groupon want you to see it Steve. There is an advantage to this sort of thing. I've heard it described as "Busy fool" syndrome.
I'm in business to make as much as possible with the minimum amount of outlay and work. Being busy is great, as long as the price justifies the amount of work needed to earn it.
I don't see how it costs 40 quid to get a client. But 17 quid hourly rate is disgusting.
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Oh how times have changed ;D
Not so long ago it was written by those on here who knew their stuff to 'charge high work less.'
Now there seems to be a growing clan of charge low work looooong.
There's 3 parties involved in this scheme......Groupon, customer, service provider and only 2 of them are going to win.
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Not at all Neil, personally Groupon is not for me - I want my £50 per hour and I have the client base that provides that.
But Jason has a particular need (new clients) at a particular time (now) and he has identified that this form of marketing will suit his needs.
I was simply stating that people are focusing too much on the discount rather than the ready-made clients.
How long would it take you to get 100 new orders ?
Jason could get that in one day !
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As some of you may know we also run a cycle hire business in Northumberland, one of our competitors (well actually he's become a good mate and we pass work back and forward to each other) did a Groupon offer last year for bike hires.
He ran it as a half price offer, £8 for a day hire instead of £16 and got a really good response, however he only received £4 per booking, groupon took the other 50% and he's not had one person come back to rebook at normal prices.
He has had people coming to him asking when he's going to do another Groupon deal as they are looking for a cheap hire again.
All this succeeds in doing is devaluing the market for carpet cleaners, it's like when you go into the Supermarket and only buy things when they are on offer or BOGOF.
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Not at all Neil, personally Groupon is not for me - I want my £50 per hour and I have the client base that provides that.
But Jason has a particular need (new clients) at a particular time (now) and he has identified that this form of marketing will suit his needs.
I was simply stating that people are focusing too much on the discount rather than the ready-made clients.
How long would it take you to get 100 new orders ?
Jason could get that in one day !
About 2 hours at stupid prices. What a great days work, 10 jobs at 17 quid a job, travel between jobs, kit and chem costs etc etc to take off the amazing turnover of 170 quid.
Steve, Groupon is designed for burger outlets and fish & chip shops, not services like CC.
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As some of you may know we also run a cycle hire business in Northumberland, one of our competitors (well actually he's become a good mate and we pass work back and forward to each other) did a Groupon offer last year for bike hires.
He ran it as a half price offer, £8 for a day hire instead of £16 and got a really good response, however he only received £4 per booking, groupon took the other 50% and he's not had one person come back to rebook at normal prices.
He has had people coming to him asking when he's going to do another Groupon deal as they are looking for a cheap hire again.
All this succeeds in doing is devaluing the market for carpet cleaners, it's like when you go into the Supermarket and only buy things when they are on offer or BOGOF.
Well explained, what part of that didn't get the point across that Groupon WIN and the customers WIN, and you LOSE?
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I can see I'm flogging a dead horse here.....
Jason's opening post said "I have relocated so I have little work anyway"
We are not talking about how it would affect you or me Cozy, as I said it's not for me and I agree it's better suited to restaurants or hotels that want to fill tables or rooms that would have otherwise been empty.
But this could solve Jason's immediate problem - and who said he would have to complete those hypothetical 100 jobs in 10 days (10 a day) ?
Anyway, I can see I'm in a minority here so I'm off to watch Law and Order ;D
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All I can say is Ill let you know how it goes .
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Steve, you wasted enough time typing that other post when you should've been watching Top Gear!
Jason, can't wait to hear. I've no reason to wish to see you crash and burn. I'm just glad it's someone else and not me ;D
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Steve, you wasted enough time typing that other post when you should've been watching Top Gear!
Jason, can't wait to hear. I've no reason to wish to see you crash and burn. I'm just glad it's someone else and not me ;D
I had to wash up while Top Gear was on, but the jokes on her coz I taped it ;D
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There is only one way to know for sure and that's to do it.
Jason, best of luck mate, I for one hope it works for you.
Martin 8)
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Good luck with it.
Dave
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You have got to look at Jason's financial needs, between insurance work he cleans carpets the need to get a full on data base isn't a must like it is for me, ideally if this works e can switch it on and off to suit.
Shaun
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How I see it is that those of you slating the idea obviously have enough work and are satisfied with your income not to worry about it but for others, times are hard and yes carpet cleaners too can fall on hard times so it seems like a no brainer to me for a number of reasons. Maybe some of you should offload those chips you carry around on your shoulders and give it a go......it wasnt very long ago that a lot on here were moaning about how quiet things are........better to have a small amount of income than sit around idle...imo
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Nothing ventured nothing gained IMO.. you have to think outside the box to get in the box...I agree that maybe you knock some kind of care / maintenance follow up plan together deals for upholstery cleaning etc.. even trying to sell those own label spotter bottles that some of us give away free....may get you an the odd extra £5 or so here and there......my missus always get the pampers etc,, and spends a little of whats she's saved on a few products....
good luck and keep all them customers on a data base and take it from there with referal offers / vouchers or whatever....hope it goes well
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Surely nobody wants anyone else to fail with however they chose to market ???
I'm not in favour of the groupon way, but each to his own :)
Jason how long will your vouchers be valid for?
"The deal is up to 20 m2 of carpeting cleaned for £28 , any furthur cleaning is at £2.50m2 Groupon keep 40% of the deal so I get £17 per clean , which equates to £57 when the £40 original marketing cost is added in , plus the opportunity for other work and a regular customer , which in my experience is about a third of all jobs visited. "
I am pretty sure that Jason will be marketing in other proven ways that he has shared on here with us in the past, so won't be buidling a database of people that just want cheap :)
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Why not offer 75% off protector treatment when you get a carpet cleaned at full price. You could easily swallow protecting a room for a few quid while you get paid normal price for cleaning.
Just be very careful. 80 jobs at an hour each is about 3 long weeks work at low prices.
When its going live.
Mark
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Seems there is a company in Manchester doing a groupon deal at the moment
£50 Voucher to have carpets cleaned Buy for £15.
139 sold as i type. any further work above £50 is carged with a 30% discount.
And he aint expensive to begin with. up to 145 sold.
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/manchester/BragCleaning/527286
Paul
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Its the normal price cleaning which is sold where the profit is , of course I am not retarded enough to work for £100 a day , it is a business decision , and a form of marketing
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who sets the prices for this,couldn,t you just bump up your price to begin with then after groupon take their cut etc your still left with a better profit and the custy believes they have a great deal coz groupon as told them so...
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Seems there is a company in Manchester doing a groupon deal at the moment
£50 Voucher to have carpets cleaned Buy for £15.
139 sold as i type. any further work above £50 is carged with a 30% discount.
And he aint expensive to begin with. up to 145 sold.
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/manchester/BragCleaning/527286
Paul
So will this guy get £7.50 per deal on this? And he's now sold 151.
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Just noticed that Groupon are hitting adwords with '70% off carpet cleaning in your area' deals. How long is this going to last!!
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Its the normal price cleaning which is sold where the profit is , of course I am not retarded enough to work for £100 a day , it is a business decision , and a form of marketing
jasonl
Who said you was retarded ?
I was definatly not implying this. And i am sure it could work done in the correct way.
Good luck Paul
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Seems there is a company in Manchester doing a groupon deal at the moment
£50 Voucher to have carpets cleaned Buy for £15.
139 sold as i type. any further work above £50 is carged with a 30% discount.
And he aint expensive to begin with. up to 145 sold.
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/manchester/BragCleaning/527286
Paul
Just seen where this busines is based. He's welcome to every job he can possibly get.
Rog
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He's now sold 164 jobs at 15 quid a pop that should cost 50 quid a pop. 2460 quid instead of 8200 quid. How long will they need to get those jobs done and what about the nearly 6000 quid drop in takings? This is designed for restaurants and chip shops guys, not CC.
Glad it's not me.
I forgot, half of the 2460 goes to Groupon.
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Hi
There is another site Living Social Deals very similar, have seen carpet cleaning on there as well.
Dave
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Yeah, saw that advert on TV. Just checked Groupon here in windy Germany. Closest deals near where I live is about 80 miles away. A few bits about hotels in Berlin etc etc. Not really got going yet. (Thank God)
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Here's a firm in West London, lots of customers will get to see "What they can do"
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/london/innovatecarpetcleaning/478784
Here's their web site http://innovatecarpetclean.co.uk/
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667 jobs, should clear that in a week :P
That gives them £26k, minus Groupon they have £15600
5 jobs a day 7 days a week = 50 jobs done
13 weeks and jobs a goodun
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667 jobs, should clear that in a week :P
That gives them £26k, minus Groupon they have £15600
5 jobs a day 7 days a week = 50 jobs done
13 weeks and jobs a goodun
well at least your english isgood davey ;D
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Doh!
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It leaves them 13000 quid. for 667 jobs, fancy some of that ? Each job is at least 19.5 quid. Where do I sign?? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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667 customers on the database , a third will become repeat and referred customers at full price , life time value of those customers is many thousands . I am looking for a business with a client base , not a quick buck today.
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Sorry Jason but I think its a ball aching way to do it.
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667 customers on the database , a third will become repeat and referred customers at full price , life time value of those customers is many thousands . I am looking for a business with a client base , not a quick buck today.
Yes mate, but 80000 quids worth of turnover for 13000 is a bit of a loss to gain 222 new customers. You have to get your "Normal" jobs done at the same time. If you think that's good marketing, you're wasted on here. You should work for an advertising agency.
By the way, those 222 would have to bring you 51000 between them in the future, just for you to get back what you lost with the Groupon deal!! Cool 8) That's only a bit over 200 quid each.
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For a start it is not 80k worth of turnover , it is 667 x£45 jobs which is 30k , how much does it normally cost to get 667 customers?
Alifetime value of a customer is far more than £200.
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I have my doubts that there will be a third of these who become loyal customers.
People (myself included) buy into Groupon because they are looking for a good deal, we have bought groupons for restaurants and other things in the past, however I wouldn't go back to any of these again and pay full price, I'll just wait for the next Groupon deal, they come on my emails every morning!
Therefore if another carpet cleaner in the same geographic area decides in 12 months time to try Groupon marketing then most of the 667 "loyal" customers will move straight across to them.
What about customer number 667 who bought the groupon to get her carpets done in the next couple of weeks and has now been told it going to be the end of october before they can get round to her??
Do you think she is likely to become a loyal customer with that sort of service?
Finally what about the current loyal customer base that has been build up over many years and have always paid full price for the service, they see the groupon deal and feel that they have been basically "robbed" because just the week before the offer they paid full price for the same clean.. or less?
I just think it's a dangerous route to be going down and could seriously devalue a persons business.
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"Finally what about the current loyal customer base that has been build up over many years and have always paid full price for the service, they see the groupon deal and feel that they have been basically "robbed" because just the week before the offer they paid full price for the same clean.. or less?"
Jason has not got a loyal customer base he has just relocated...
No matter what anyone on here says Jason is going to try the deal, so why don't we just sit back and wait for the results..................... I think some on here may be surprised....
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Jason, can you text me the number of the rep you dealt with please.
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Morning Gary what are you doing up this time of day??
just getting in??
;D
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Noooo not me :-X ;).
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jason
whens it going live?
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Going live in 2, 6 and 11 weeks , in a few local cities.
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Good luck on that Jason
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Going live in 2, 6 and 11 weeks , in a few local cities.
£10 says it doesn't ;D
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if it does go live in 2 6 and 11 weeks time, (which i still will take the bet that it doesn't)
whats the betting that shaun buys 100 and gets you to do his work for him, happy holiday shaun ;D ;D ;D
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I've not read the previous posts on this subject but am well aware of Groupon and similar marketing organisations.
If you have the capacity to deliver a massive increase in your business volume it could work for you, BUT, there are many reports of small businesses being snowed under and simply being unable to supply the service to the majority of enquirers.
The concept is CLEAR..............
GET A MASSIVE DISCOUNT OFF THE USUAL PRICE ............
What do they do the next time they want the service ????
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For a start it is not 80k worth of turnover , it is 667 x£45 jobs which is 30k , how much does it normally cost to get 667 customers?
Alifetime value of a customer is far more than £200.
You need to look again Jason. http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/london/innovatecarpetcleaning/478784
You get 19.5 quid for each of the 667 jobs. 667 X 120 quid is 80,000. Not when you don't want to see it, but it is in the real world mate. You should earn 120 quid per job, but you only get 39 quid, and half of that goes to the pirates (Groupon). That leaves you with 667 X 19.5 quid = 13006.5 quid.
Hector M I know he's relocated and has no customers. He will have soon if he goes for this scam though. Can't see him coming back in 3 months after working for 85 quid a day and saying "You were right lads, it was a rip off" can you? Because if he gets 667 jobs, how long will he need to clear that much garbage before he has time to get onother customer who's ready to pay "Normal" prices?
If it looks like a good deal to you Hector, why don't you stop cheering Jason on and go get a deal from Groupon for yourself?
Ian Rochester has hit the nail on the head with his post. I'm starting to hope Jason will take the deal now, just to put him out of his misery. People telling him it's worth a try aren't willing to try it themselves. If he can't smell a rat, then good luck.
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"Hector M I know he's relocated and has no customers. He will have soon if he goes for this scam though. Can't see him coming back in 3 months after working for 85 quid a day and saying "You were right lads, it was a rip off" can you? Because if he gets 667 jobs, how long will he need to clear that much garbage before he has time to get onother customer who's ready to pay "Normal" prices?"
Let's wait and see, and that should have been directed at Jason and not me........
"If it looks like a good deal to you Hector, why don't you stop cheering Jason on and go get a deal from Groupon for yourself?"
Never said it looked like a good deal to me..... you read far too much between the lines.
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Jason has not got a loyal customer base he has just relocated...
No matter what anyone on here says Jason is going to try the deal, so why don't we just sit back and wait for the results..................... I think some on here may be surprised....
I read too much between the lines? This looks like you expect a good result. Or have I misunderstood your posts and you think it's a bad deal for him?
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I hope it works for him and he comes back here and tells everyone it didn't.
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I hope it works for him and he comes back here and tells everyone it didn't.
???
I hope it works for him and I hope he says so too!
The more I look at some of the groupon deals, the more I can see that Jason has put a lot of thought into his offer, being that he has been so specific in his terms! :)
Some advertised on there are not so specific and may be detremental to the company supplying them or just plain old misleading to the consumer. :)
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I do actually expect it to be a good result for Jason for the reasons Helen has pointed out.
I did not say it would be good for me...... ;D
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For a start it is not 80k worth of turnover , it is 667 x£45 jobs which is 30k , how much does it normally cost to get 667 customers?
Alifetime value of a customer is far more than £200.
You need to look again Jason. http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/london/innovatecarpetcleaning/478784
You get 19.5 quid for each of the 667 jobs. 667 X 120 quid is 80,000. Not when you don't want to see it, but it is in the real world mate. You should earn 120 quid per job, but you only get 39 quid, and half of that goes to the pirates (Groupon). That leaves you with 667 X 19.5 quid = 13006.5 quid.
Hector M I know he's relocated and has no customers. He will have soon if he goes for this scam though. Can't see him coming back in 3 months after working for 85 quid a day and saying "You were right lads, it was a rip off" can you? Because if he gets 667 jobs, how long will he need to clear that much garbage before he has time to get onother customer who's ready to pay "Normal" prices?
If it looks like a good deal to you Hector, why don't you stop cheering Jason on and go get a deal from Groupon for yourself?
Ian Rochester has hit the nail on the head with his post. I'm starting to hope Jason will take the deal now, just to put him out of his misery. People telling him it's worth a try aren't willing to try it themselves. If he can't smell a rat, then good luck.
I am offering to clean 20m2 of carpet for £28 all work in excess of this is charged at £2.50/m2 , with 100% coming to me , I am not giving Groupon 50% of the £28 either , its called negotiation.
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Jason, knock yaself out mate. I don't see anyone on here pushing past you in the queue to get one of these great deals.
If you're convinced it's the way forward for you, then go for it. You must see something that most on here can't see. I'm trying to point out what I see as a cr@p deal. I've nothing to lose if you sink or swim, we're in different countries, so all I'm trying to do is point out what you seem to have missed.
I'll bookmark this thread and see how you got on in about 6 months. Just incase you sell over 600 jobs on Groupon. That's how long you'll need to clear all those good deals you'll get.
Hector will still be in business though in 6 months, because he wont be taking part in this great deal. It's not for him apparently. ;)
Just an after thought. Perhaps you could call one of the companies who have tried Groupon and see what they think. Not hotels or chip shops, carpet cleaners. Then you can't miss.
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i hope for all our sakes it doesn't work for jason and for any other carpet cleaner out there. lets face it, if it does work then we'll all have to work for nothing. no offence J.
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Errr actually Cozy there is someone looking very seriously in to this..... Me. Admittedly not with carpet cleaning but the principle is the same, Thanks for the phone number Jason.
You're all lucky to get someone like Jason willing to try this, if he can't make it work then doubt anyone else on here could.
Hector, I'll let you answer your bit ;D
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Looks like we will all be round at dereks for xmas dinner if it does work ;D
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Errr actually Cozy there is someone looking very seriously in to this..... Me. Admittedly not with carpet cleaning but the principle is the same, Thanks for the phone number Jason.
You're all lucky to get someone like Jason willing to try this, if he can't make it work then doubt anyone else on here could.
Hector, I'll let you answer your bit ;D
Yes we are lucky aren't we. ;) Throw a grenade in the room and step outside ;D
I didn't say "Nobody" is interested Gary. If Jason can't make it work nobody can?? Why's that? Is he a carpet cleaning guru or something? ;D
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Looks like we will all be round at dereks for xmas dinner id it does work ;D
Booking of 2 seats required please ;D.........oh make that 3 as me Mum always Xmas dinner with us ;D
Cheers D.....nice of you to offer
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Helen ;D
Yes think il book 3 seats too please ;D
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Don't worry about the grenade bit, I think you know I'm not usually on this section of the forum. I don't know what or who you mean about numpties or anything to do with any of that. I know Jasons posts from talking about Facebook, I think. I'd never describe him as a numpty, or stupid. I just don't understand why he wants to defend Groupon.
I've never seen such a strange reaction from someone when disadvantages are brought up in a subject. I find it hard to understand how someone could go ahead with something like Groupon when it's developed for the hotel and food industry.
Knee jerk reactions in business never work. It seems that Jason is in panic mode and is grasping at straws to gain customers as fast as possible. If nobody seems to be keen about doing the same thing, then surely he should take another look at it.
The thing that should worry Jason is that if he sells 200 or 700 jobs, it will take months to clear this backlog and will be impossible to get through if other work comes his way. The only winner is Groupon. They advertise and get the same return as the punter who does all the work. What has Groupon got to lose? What has Jason got to lose?
I find this concept fascinating, that's why I'm posting in this thread. I honestly didn't believe someone in carpet cleaning would be interested in a chip shop gimmick.
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note to self, not sure a turkey will be big enough, get costings for osterich.
oh and bloomin big oven. ;D
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Are you thinking about it for the cd side of things Gary ??
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Ohhh never even thought of that, nice one.
No it is for something else, or was until your idea :)
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royalties please ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Do you read the flipping posts you comment on ??? ???
I never said you said Jason was a numpty.
I can now think of at least 11 numpties on here.
How much research have you put in to come up with "its for the hotel and food industry", showing your ignorance as well now. At least look in to it before you start putting it down.
Calm down, this section of the forum is for advice and help. No need to be abusive. I always thought you were fairly adult. Please re-read my last post as you seem to have misunderstood all of it and you're under the impression I'm calling you names or something.
I don't want to explain everything twice, that's normally not needed. Just calm down, like I said, and re-read it. I'm reading everything I can find about Groupon on the net, and it seems it's the fastest growing business in the world at the moment. It gets good and bad press and even Google made a 6 bn dollar bid for it which was turned down.
Even the founder of Starbucks is now joining the board of directors, so as you can see, I'm not ignorant to what Groupon is.
It was originally founded as a coupon set up for the hotel and food industry, but because of some smart boys on the board, they've expanded into other businesses.
This all sounds great doesn't it. So why don't you go for it along with Jason and show everyone what a clever bloke you really are, and that when you read stuff properly, you understand it. It's because of people misunderstanding posts that we all have to move slower in this thread.
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Gary trying your landline...... :P
No result :'(
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Actually I'm on that already. Claiming that as my idea :-*.
Can pay you in tea and coffee, might stretch to a biscuit if you bring J.
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Off the phone now, was telling someone my great idea :P
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For Jason's sake I hope he achieves what he wants.
For a carpet cleaners sake and for that matter any other service industry I hope it doesn't take off or else we'll all be in trouble.
I don't sell 'extras' or whatever else you want to call it whilst I'm at a customers property, I don't like it one bit when I'm the customer and I have no intention of going down that route either.
And this is the dliema for those who want to go down the coupon route. If you're fully booked up for the next 8 weeks with super deals, just how are you going to find the time to do any 'extras' whilst you are there, because if you do then you aren't going to get around all the customers for that day. But you might say, only take on 3 coupon jobs a day with the intention of selling more. But what happens if none of those customers want anything else doing other than their 20 sq/m (or whatever your special offer is). You could end up quite poor for that day.
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Some good points there, and for those who can be bothered reading longer tan 90 seconds ;D http://www.aneclecticmind.com/2011/03/18/why-groupon-is-bad-for-business-and-consumers/
It a case study of a small one man business (Helicopter ) and what offer he got from a cold calling Groupon salesman.
Having said all I have so far, if I were a chip shop owner or a hotel / Guest house owner, I'd give Groupon a limited trial. Problem is, Groupon don't do "Limited". They bang out the coupons and move onto the next (In my opinion, poor sod) business
By the way, here's another Groupon deal in progress.
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/bournemouth/bournemouth-carpet-cleaners/536317?CID=UK_AFF_1047_10_1_1&utm_source=aff_1047&utm_medium=aff_10&utm_campaign=aff_1&utm_content=aff_1&nlp
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That deal, 425 sold at 8 o clock. £28 which is paid to Groupon, this includes VAT. They then pay you 50% of £22.40 which is £11.20. Thats how I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong.
Utter MADNESS :'(
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john, its the future, try some citrus concentrate on there. ;) ;D
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This is not meant to cause offence, but I don't understand the problem some people have with 'sales'. Selling add-ons is not unethical, it happens in almost every industry, and there's nothing to say you might be offering something the customer hadn't thought of, but is quite keen on.
You book a holiday, they offer you insurance. You take car insurance, they offer you breakdown cover. You buy a car, they offer you Supagard, Insurances, Warranties. You open a bank account, they offer you loans, credit cards. You pay for your shopping, they offer you cashback.
Yes it's purpose for the vendor is increasing profits, but not every customer hates it. There's a difference between a good sales pitch and a hard sell. I've been in sales all my career thus far, and have never made anyone buy something they don't want - the success comes from making them realise they want something when they didn't realise previously.
Offering extra rooms, stain protection, upholstery cleaning while your with the customer is not bad practise - it's offering a service (as long as you know how to take a 'No') - it's not Bait & Switch.
Or thats my 2p worth anyway..
Regards,
Ash
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I agree with you Ash, not enough cleaners upsell and miss out on a massive boost to their earnings. But that Groupon deal a couple of posts back equates to £11.80 for 2 rooms and a hallway then to cap it all you also get 50% off any further work carried out.
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I wasn't defending or championing the Groupon deal, just the way some people talk about sales like it's a swear word confuses me.
Back on topic though, at least with the deal if you do sell any extra work (even at 50% off) atleast Groupon are not taking their share - so your getting 50% instead of 25-35%, ar at least I assume this to be the case..
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You moved to Sheffield Jason?
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- the success comes from making them realise they want something when they didn't realise previously.
What a load of bullocks. Only a salesman could believe all that clap trap. >:(
Anyway, the point I was making was that if you have a day full of £22 cleans then how are you going to find the time to fit in 'extra sales' whilst you are there, compare that with only taking 3 x £22 cleans per day in the hope you can upsell on each job to make the day worthwhile.
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might all be moot at the moment as the deal today is in the area that Jason works....
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Oi Hector, is your signature anything to do with Groupon? ;D
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Ok maybe it was a simplistic definition, but I definately believe it. As far as managing any extra sales - I suppose that's in the planning/scheduling.
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Ok maybe it was a simplistic definition, but I definately believe it. As far as managing any extra sales - I suppose that's in the planning/scheduling.
What can you upsell on that deal?
Highlights
Two rooms of any size and a hallway
Includes pre-spray treatment and specific stain removal if required
20% discount on additional services including ovens or windows
50% discount on additional carpets at time of booking
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Oi Hector, is your signature anything to do with Groupon? ;D
yep :o
i mean nope ???
dunno ;D ;D ;D
oh alright then yep :P
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;D ;D
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As I mentioned, I wasn't necessarily talking exclusively about the Groupon deal - I don't have any feelings either way about Groupon (although I am curious how it will pan out), but rather some peoples attitudes towards sales.
But as you asked, I'm sure if you cleaned/protected another 1 or 2 rooms while you were on site it would certainly be worthwhile, particularly seeing as you won't be paying Groupon their share for the extras.
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Yews, I see what you mean, but as Neil pointed out, you don't have a lot of time. That poor sad has shifted over 470 jobs so far. He wont have time to go to the bog at this rate.
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Very few people only spend the 28 quid , the vast majority have other items to clean ..
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Very few people only spend the 28 quid , the vast majority have other items to clean ..
Even if they don't know it yet ;D.
Suppose its all down to how good a salesmen you are. Will work for some will die a death with others.
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Fair play to Jason for replying to this thread, he's only asked for opinions but has had a grillng. Go for it buddy and let us know your findings. It might not work for everyone but at least you've given it a try.
All the best,
Jason.
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I understand,
Jason is trying to build a customer base and is "throwing a sprat to catch a mackerel"
We did it with the rug cleaning and 75% of them used the voucher all of them had the rug protected, so made the same as an ordinary no add on clean.
I did it with them bringing rugs to me ( no travel and in reality how long does it take to do a few more rugs when your doing them anyway)
Big question is does it lead to repeat business the up-sell might soften the discount portion of it. But you need them to come back again and again
Cheers Jason for being so honest about it, and look forward to seeing your results
It would scare the hell out of me.
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Fair play to Jason for replying to this thread, he's only asked for opinions but has had a grillng. Go for it buddy and let us know your findings. It might not work for everyone but at least you've given it a try.
All the best,
Jason.
And that's what he got, opinions. What makes you think he's had a grilling? Surely that's the point of this forum, to get opinions, views and advice. Then when you get them, it's a grilling??? Alot of what I've learned in the last couple of years is from forums like this. I only started using forums about 3 or 4 years ago. When I first started, there wasn't a bloody internet!!
Now if someone asks for advice or opinions on this forum, they get a "Grilling"? What a strange collection of bods have managed to find their way onto this place ;D
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Possibly, but I do find that the language use on the internet generally is a lot more hostile than if you were speaking face to face.
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Yeah, if you say so, but the point is to get an answer to a question or get advice. If diplomacy isn't a priority, then that's the way it is. People are people. As long as they don't end up threatening eachother.......
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Still can't understand why that guy is offering a further 50% discount on any additional work. Surely if he's doing the first 3 carpets for nothing, which he is, £11 would hardly cover your transport cost, you have to maximise any add on work to make this pay not give half of it away. And don't forget discounts come striaght off your bottom line.
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Hi Guys
Have you also noticed he is offering 9 to 7, 7 days a week.
The whole thing looks like a waking nightmare to me.
Jason you say you have set up several CC businesss's, why not go back to basics and organise a really good leaflet campaign.
With 20K to spend over say 6 months you should be looking good in a couple of years time.
Cheers
Doug
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That deal in Bournemouth ended last night with 537 sold. Thats 2 carpets plus the hallway for £28 of which the operator gets just over £11. The offer expires on 16th October 2011. That means he has to do over 6 of these a day 7 days a week from now until the deadline.
6 jobs a day for £11 is £66, £462 over 7 days. Hope he's young and fit because he's going to kill himself. Just the thought of doing this over 6 times in 1 day for £66 would make me want to top myself :o
I don't think anyone using this is going to pay one cent more to have more work done. They have seen it as it is a bargain price to have 3 carpets clean for vitually nowt. Its also taken 537 potential customers for other cleaners in that area out of the equation.
Commercial suicide.
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That deal in Bournemouth ended last night with 537 sold. Thats 2 carpets plus the hallway for £28 of which the operator gets just over £11. The offer expires on 16th October 2011. That means he has to do over 6 of these a day 7 days a week from now until the deadline.
6 jobs a day for £11 is £66, £462 over 7 days. Hope he's young and fit because he's going to kill himself. Just the thought of doing this over 6 times in 1 day for £66 would make me want to top myself :o
I don't think anyone using this is going to pay one cent more to have more work done. They have seen it as it is a bargain price to have 3 carpets clean for vitually nowt. Its also taken 537 potential customers for other cleaners in that area out of the equation.
Commercial suicide.
Post of the thread.
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That deal in Bournemouth ended last night with 537 sold. Thats 2 carpets plus the hallway for £28 of which the operator gets just over £11. The offer expires on 16th October 2011. That means he has to do over 6 of these a day 7 days a week from now until the deadline.
6 jobs a day for £11 is £66, £462 over 7 days. Hope he's young and fit because he's going to kill himself. Just the thought of doing this over 6 times in 1 day for £66 would make me want to top myself :o
I don't think anyone using this is going to pay one cent more to have more work done. They have seen it as it is a bargain price to have 3 carpets clean for vitually nowt. Its also taken 537 potential customers for other cleaners in that area out of the equation.
Commercial suicide.
wheres the like button, ;D
6 of these a day over 7 days until october to keep everyone happy. :o he won't have time to do any add ons, or the energy either.
madness
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Hi Guys
I see they have started to advertise on Google adwords.
Cheers
Doug
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It pays to know your figures, they could have done 1 x £25 2 x £45 with free hall and I bet they still would have bitten okay Groupon will take a chunk but it at least doubles his figures.
Shaun
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Very few people only spend the 28 quid , the vast majority have other items to clean ..
how do you know this? if i was a consumer using Groupon i would just do the deal and wait for another to come along if i needed anymore doing. if somebody is being that price conscious they arent going to care who does it as long as they get it cheap. that means its then cheaper to get several cleaners to come out over time rather than one person doing a bulk job. i would think a lot of people would rather do one or two rooms at a time if they didnt have to pay a higher minimum job ticket every time
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over 6 of these a day 7 days a week from now until the deadline.
£462 over 7 days.
Hope he's young and fit because he's going to kill himself.
Its also taken 537 potential customers for other cleaners in that area out of the equation.
Just the point I was trying to make.
And just how are you going to sell 'add ons' when every working minute is already acccounted for between now and Mid October.
On the plus side....when all these carpet cleaners have either gone bust or died from stress there'll be more work for those of us left, or perhaps potential customers will quickly learn that you get what you pay for.
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Cozy
Some of the " bods " you refer to have been posting on here for 7 or 8 years and are respected businessmen.
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Cozy
Some of the " bods " you refer to have been posting on here for 7 or 8 years and are respected businessmen.
So what? That makes them what? Allways right? It was a tongue in cheek remark. If it offends you and you have a sense of humour break down, get over it and forget it.
I will.
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Has anyone else though someone might be running a crew of ( god knows what) that are going to power through this 600 in no time flat ( seem to remember there a few legally distinct ;) big bait and switch outfits in or near Bournemouth)
A hypothetical secenario might be.
there is a £100 p-take rinse on the job that your carpet needs, along with a £500 stabilising solution because its polyprop you see madam. And of course numpty tax at 99% and if you don't accept it it's bye bye as they can't do the job, it not safe you see.
So 50% off that is great and they get £11 to drive to the door and have a go at ripping the customer off.
Think about it,seems quite good if you that kind of outfit. Possibly.
Or it a large outfit running a loss leader to kill the competition, but I,d put my money on the first all scams appeal to the greedy nature so the extra 50% is just sweetener
That or hell take the money and run is my guess
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He cant run anywhere until he has the Groupon voucher from the customer.
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I think you are probably right about a crew doing this. If you look at their website www.bournemouthcarpetcleaners.com there are some flowers the bottom of the page with "southampton carpet cleaners" on it........substitue the bournemouth bit for Southampton in the web address and you get:
The site southamptoncarpetcleaners.com has been disabled. Please contact support.
Hope fully they are doing this deal and moving on quickly, then it may just be a flash in the pan.....as John said there goes 500+ jobs for the rest of that areas CC'ers :)
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Just been on sky news about the groupon down in the south..think its still on now sky news..
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Hi Guys
Made the financial press
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Shoppers-Warned-Over-Special-skynews-3421089109.html?x=0
Cheers
Doug
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Sounds like Groupon would be a very good way to get a lot of customers fast. It is a form of leverage but like most things if you haven't got it right you only magnify the problem.
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Good article here, bit long winded:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/13/why-groupon-is-poised-for-collapse/
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As John Kelly pointed out,you`d have to be young and fit to do all that
Work !
What about the jobs you do where the customer complains about the
Shrinkage,colour running or whatever else they complain about?????
Do you go back,or what is the situation here ?
Thanks for replies.
Lewis Doubtfire
???
::) :-\ :o :-\
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Living social rang me today. Basically they only want at least a 50% offer or people wont go for it. They take 50% of the deal price.
They tried to tell me how people will buy more when on site, get their carpets every month in future etc etc to make up the money and how its a really effective and cheap way to get lots of work quick.
When I tried to explain that Id be A) not making money and in fact B) doing the job below cost didnt seem to register.
The guys I see doing it seem to be very new to the business and will Im afraid learn the hard way.
Mark
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Living social rang me today. Basically they only want at least a 50% offer or people wont go for it. They take 50% of the deal price.
They tried to tell me how people will buy more when on site, get their carpets every month in future etc etc to make up the money and how its a really effective and cheap way to get lots of work quick.
Get their carpets cleaned every month?........ooh I've split me sides laughing ;D
They are right it is a cheap way to get lots of work quicker Just don't think about the cost of doing that work ::)
When I tried to explain that Id be A) not making money and in fact B) doing the job below cost didnt seem to register.
Of course it wouldn't....they don't give 2 wotsits whether you are making money or not......just interested in making themselves money
The guys I see doing it seem to be very new to the business and will Im afraid learn the hard way.
Maybe.......maybe not ???
Mark
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A member on the window section explained it best with this post, classic.
For heavens sake guys. You really need to think carefully about this. Cozy and others have made some excellent points that I think a few may have missed.
Groupon is in the business of making money for .... Groupon! They have a clever business model which sells Jack the five magic beans in exchange for his cow.
Jack is the tradesman. He's a builder, a cleaner, a tattoo artist, a shopkeeper, an honest working man/woman who does a good job but is having trouble filling those 40 hours a week with paid work. The magic beans are the promise of the extra work to fill the 40 hours. The cow is the labour of Jack, which he often attaches no value to. Jack thinks that if he's working for £6 an hour then he's better off than if he's sat at home getting under his missus' feet.
Jack often forgets to factor in his overheads. His fuel, his wear and tear on equipment, his pure water, his sandwich for lunch, even his daughter who has suddenly developped a taste for nice clothes. As long as Jack is 'Hauling sixteen tons' as the song goes, he's making progress.
From what I have seen the Groupon system takes about 2/3 of revenue and then expects a hefty discount to be pushed towards the customer. So Jack is now working for maybe 25% of his usual expected earnings. That's fine if he is making money. But in the world we live in today Jack is now running at a loss. He is actually paying for the privilege of hauling sixteen tons.
Nobody should sell themselves short. Work has a recognised value. I never noticed Tesco giving me a 75% off voucher as I walked in on a Monday morning because it was their quiet time. If you're not busy then get a good leaflet and go and leaflet as many houses as you can. Find customers who value your work for what it costs, not giggling 23 year old housewives who have spent a day surfing the net for your slave labour and who will drop you as soon as they can't afford a night out on Friday.
And don't forget if half a day's leaflets only brings you one customer then that's the equivalent of 4 Groupon customers and maybe more
Scoop
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As John Kelly pointed out,you`d have to be young and fit to do all that
Work !
What about the jobs you do where the customer complains about the
Shrinkage,colour running or whatever else they complain about?????
Do you go back,or what is the situation here ?
Thanks for replies.
Lewis Doubtfire
???
::) :-\ :o :-\
Yeah, you'd want one of Johns prowlers too. Jacked up on a Flux Capacitor running on plutonium.
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As John Kelly pointed out,you`d have to be young and fit to do all that
Work !
What about the jobs you do where the customer complains about the
Shrinkage,colour running or whatever else they complain about?????
Do you go back,or what is the situation here ?
Thanks for replies.
Lewis Doubtfire
???
::) :-\ :o :-\
Yeah, you'd want one of Johns prowlers too. Jacked up on a Flux Capacitor running on plutonium.
that would be ace !!
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Hi
been giving this a load of thought and I'm with Jason on giving it a try, he's relocated and it is a good chance to build up a customer base.
What is bothering me a little is that Groupon will be earning just as much with no effort or outlay and the point to groupon is to hopefully upsell extras which all groupon people hope to do But there is no certainty that they people having their carpets, meal etc even will have extras done, you have to go in hoping they will.
That's my only niggle
Martin 8)
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All it proves is marketing know how is king.
They have created a fantastic marketing machine and that includes marketing to businesses like yours. They take a huge chunk of your profit and get you to offer your blood sweat and tears for bargain basement prices.
If you are good at marketing yourself and you are a one man band why on earth would you ever consider it? But if you can't market then maybe it's a big price to pay but worth it. :-\
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Hi Martin,members.Perhaps as far as we the cleaners are concerned
The percentage figures are `out of kilter`.
If Groupon take 65% then only take 5% themselves that leaves us
With 30%
Groupon are agents,usually agents are refered to as `Mr. 10% `.
They would have to take a cut to make it viable.
There`s an old saying, “ You have to let the dog see the rabbitt “
I don`t know where VAT stands in all of this. ???
Lewis Doubtfire
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Just to make a few bits clear to you Lewis.
Groupon want you to reduce your price by 65% meaning the customer only pays 35%.
of that 35% then groupon take between 30% and 60% (lets say an average of 50%
so you are doing work for less than 75% of your normal charge.
Groupon make the same amount of money per job as you..
#
Sorry by that is not the usual terms for an agent..
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If a groupon deal is £30 groupon take 50% plus vat ,leaving £12 for the vendor.
I negotiated a better deal than this though. It is not about the £12 for the initial visit , one of the strategies on fast track etc is to offer a free clean to friends and family , which I did many years ago when first starting out , and still do for commercial customers .
The free clean , which is effectively what Groupon is opens doors, and show what you can do. All groupon does is accelerate the finding process for free clean candidates , by paying £28 this eliminates many of the reall freeloaders , though there will be some. Yes it is a loss leader, yes keeping track of , and up with the work load is work , but that is why we have cleanersmate software, and bonnet systems so multiple vans are quick , easy and inexpensive to put on the road to cope with times of high demand.
There are carpet cleaners doing this TODAY , several have emailed me (respected posters on here) and told me the doors that have been opened by groupon deals .
Ad/marketing costs for new business over the past 20 years have consistently been 30-40 % of the business gained , so in that respect Groupon is the same cost , with no upfront costs or risk to capital .
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I still agree with you Jason.
Was just trying to correct Mr Doubtfire.
~Which areas are you intending to advertise in, as Bournemouth has just been done?
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Why wouldn't these "respected posters" come on this thread and stand by that then? Go get your magic beans Jason. Sounds great.
If it doesn't work out, you could always get a salesman job at Groupon. Why try and justify Groupon on here? Just do it and show the world that it's the best thing since sliced bread.
I have full respect for anyone who sticks to what they believe, even when so many are against an idea. That takes courage. At least you have that, unlike the "respected posters".
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I still agree with you Jason.
Was just trying to correct Mr Doubtfire.
~Which areas are you intending to advertise in, as Bournemouth has just been done?
[/quote
I am going to do the offer in Sheffield , and a few local cities .
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The Bournemouth lot are at it in Southampton today
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/southampton
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Hi, LMG,members, this is my `take`on it.The `key`to
The whole business from our `side of the fence`is to
`up sell`when ya get to each job.The Groupon system
Being just perhaps a little more refined ( if that’s the
Description) than say leaflet `drops`at £5 per room,then
up selling`when ya get thereand the customer ends up paying anything
Perhaps up to or over £100.( I understand we keep that)
It`s possibly a `mild `form of pressure selling.
It`s the only way we can make anything realistic out of each
Job surely ? ?
Many of us window cleaners have added carpet cleaning to our
Daily `grind`,myself included .
Years ago,I`ve run errands and fetched old peoples medication
From the chemists for the price of a `cuppa`.I`ve even tuned in
One old ladies TV when the reception was`nt too special. ;D
P. S. Anyone know how long Groupon have been around ?
Lewis Doubtfire
`
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Lewis..the daily grind ;D
Yes thats one part of things i also do those little extras too.
Guessing the groupon is very new to this..
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Hi Helen,my thoughts exactly.£8.99p per room,blimey,that’s
Dear,I thought it was £5. Per room.I`ve always thought ya
Could get a top class professional for £8.99p.(Only kidding ? )
Oaky,right then,up sell when ya get there.
It`s mainly the gullable and senior citizens that will `buy`it,
At any price.
Example,a pensioner books ya to clean his/her carpet for £8.99p
Ya up sell with protector,another room,this that or the other and
By lunchtime early afternoon the pensioner ends up paying ya
£75 ( assuming they have it) ???
By the same evening the family,grand son etc. etc. phones ya up
Threatening to punch your lights out if you don`t give him/her their
Money back >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Same thing applies with the young or gullable.
What do ya do??????? >:(
Lewis Doubtfire
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Groupon is perfect
If your the robbing cheating Enterprise cleaning type.
I'm also prepared to bet the Groupon customers are the most picky
and will expect perfection for their money.
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I've just started a facebook campaign this afternoon, offering the chance to win a free room clean to anyone who 'likes' my page. Should hopefully give me a few people to market to online. I posted it on all the swap/sell pages locally (about 10 in all, over 20,000 members between them). Personally I'm not quite prepared to commit to the Groupon model until I see it working, the proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say. Good luck Jason (part of me thinks this is all going to end up being a wind up a la derek west mind..)
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How dare you Ash!!!!! I'll have you know my good friend Derek West doesn't support wind ups!!!!!!!!! ::) ;D
There you go Del i've got your back!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D
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Support them? He bloody STARTS them half the time! lol
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Support them? He bloody STARTS them half the time! lol
;D ;D ;D
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well he's not taken my bet yet, still there for the taking Jason. i'm confident you won't go down the groupon rd. £10 says you don't. ;D 10 days to go before he launches, or will he?, den den dennnnnnnnnn
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The contract has been sent away ,and it is in process . It is no big deal , and just part of what I am doing . My main business is disaster restoration, cleaning takes up the slack ,as it largely uses the same equipment. Carpet cleaning also provides cashflow to fund the disaster works , profit is not a major necessity for my cleaning side.
I am in the process of developing some land I aquired from the proceeds of disaster restoration into a "cleaning centre" --dry cleaners, rug cleaners, and laundry , not bad for a robbing cheating Enterprise cleaning type ;D hilarious .
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so is the bet on or not??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/
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What ? you are betting that I dont go on Groupon? Like I said , it is being processed , why would you bet on something that is already happening?
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i like the odds, ;D
give me 50/1 then, can't get fairer than that, ;D
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Jason, either lock the thread and keep it locked or leave it alone mate? The posturing is a bit annoying but the Groupon deal is just waiting for some Alan Sugar to make holes in history. Why not be that man and go make a few million with it? Stop spouting and put your money where your mouth is.
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Posturing , I shared an idea , some people gave downsides , I countered with upsides , the problem is?
I am not going to lose money on this , no one is who enters it with a plan , several have made decent sums with it
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I'll put £10 on Jason going on groupon, I don't bet but I do like sure fire money ;D
Shaun
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I'll put £10 on Jason going on groupon, I don't bet but I do like sure fire money ;D
Shaun
I am on it when it is my turn !
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I'll put £10 on Jason going on groupon, I don't bet but I do like sure fire money ;D
Shaun
well jason won't bet me so i'll take that bet mr ashmore, £10 says that jason will not have a groupon deal by the end of the month. + the tenner will come in handy if he does cos your phone won't be ringing for a few months. ;D
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Ho my god nearly bit then wiv £50,
realised who was involved :P ;D ;D
Paul
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Jason, do you think the bets are for you making money on Groupon, or just that you are going to do it? Posts on CIU wont replace lost turnover and a bad deal. See you after you've made your millions with your magic beans deal.
I just fail to understand how someone with any business sense can see Groupon as a good idea.
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Derek , "by end of the month" , I do not know , it depends where Groupon put me in the queue.
Cozy , You have said a couple of times in this thread "I cant see how" and "I fail to understand" in
relation to Groupon ..... Says it all really ;D
It will generate a few thousand in revenue and cash flow which is what is needed in my business at the moment ,medium / long term things are fine , so Groupon is a good idea for my circumstances , though maybe not for others.
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Cozy , You have said a couple of times in this thread "I cant see how" and "I fail to understand" in
relation to Groupon ..... Says it all really ;D
.
What does it say Jason? It says I can see a cr@p deal when I see it. Some can't and think business is personal. Looks like some people will go ahead with a silly deal just to "Show them" that they were right. That's a good sign of a bad deal victim. Your posturing and self praise are are painful to read. I'll leave you to your magic beans fable sort of deal with Groupon. They must have seen you coming. ;)
Alot of members on this section must know you well (Not any of the "Respected posters" though who won't back your claim up) and are used to your posts. I don't know you at all, but I have noticed how you like to paint your own portrait of the "All knowing Guru" type of big mover. :) I've seen a few of those on the window scrubbing section of CIU. No difference really, pride and bad judgment are easy to spot.
By the way, will you post the link for your Groupon deal? Hope so.
I'll just check back in a few months to see how you got on, if you're still a member on CIU ofcourse.
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Hi Jason,you go for it,prove us all wrong,myself included.
Do you employ people to work for you ( operatives ) ?
I f you do,correct me if I`m wrong with my maths here.
If you do take Groupon up,and you pay good operatives at
That the basic minimum wage,you`ll be paying out of your
Own pocket at the end of the day,because their wages will
Be more than the `Groupon deal`will be,well most jobs
Anyways.Be careful,that’s good advice,Im a `rookie`at
Business always have been,always will be.
Certain people have given you some `stick`over it,but I
Who knows
Where`s the VAT man in all this,that’s what I`d like to know ? ::)
Lewis Doubtfire
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.
[/quote]
(Not any of the "Respected posters" though who won't back your claim up)
[/quote]
I'm hurt now Cozy :'(
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Personally I think this is a sh-te idea and would rather follow the Mike Halliday method of chucking out 10,000 leaflets a week than doing it the groupon way.
Anyway each to their own and perhaps Jason has found a way around what the rest of us think is commercial suicide.
We'll just have to wait and see.
-
.
(Not any of the "Respected posters" though who won't back your claim up)
[/quote]
I'm hurt now Cozy :'(
[/quote]
No ex scalies ;D
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We've had a number of calls from people trying to book us on the groupon deal, trouble is, we ain't on it and anyone who even contemplates it is in my view completely and utterly bonkers.
You cannot go out and clean two carpets and a hall for £17 and make money. I notice it has been said that it is business building as the customers gained help build your customer base, yeah right. People who go for this kind of deal are the ultimate in price shoppers who will simply purchase another groupon deal and will tell their friends and family and next time around won't pay the full £110 price. You can never get away from a low price.
But the most corrosive effect of this is someone else is dictating the price you charge and are therefore dictating how much profit you make, which in turn dictates your standard of living. And you tell people you work for yourself! ;D
It's a scheme for mugs, in my view.
Simon
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There's plenty of mugs out there, just like the lot that fall for the 2 rooms for 8.99
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Hi Jason
Was good meeting you today!
Many thanks again for the airmover and meeting up with me, was very kind of you!
Tired it out on a job early this evening and seems to be a powerful wee bugger!
Hope you and your son had a safe trip back down south. Epic journey!! lol
Thanks again
Tony
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I should think he's asleep, we met him in Winchester last night. Dread to think how how many miles he's driven the last 36 hours, must be near on a 1000 :o.
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Yeah was good to meet up Gary and Tony ,, 1250 miles in 36 hours was a bit of a trip , half of it in a very overloaded van . Not one traffic jam though !
Sheffield- Taunton -Bournemouth- Sheffield-Glasgow-Sheffield . Wont drive that again anytime soon .
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Not until your Groupon goes live ;D
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Has anyone actually used groupon yet? I'm fascinated to see if anyone thinks it is a viable thing to do.
Simon
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Yes they have and yes they do .
Details will not be posted on here by them though , for fear of the "me too" crowd , and the irritation of the "cant be true , lets pull it to pieces crowd"
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This will be a good thread to come back to in a few months. If it's all gone quiet we will know the answer, if it's been a success I'm sure we will hear about it, especially you Simon. Remember, you have been wrong before.
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Yes they have and yes they do .
Details will not be posted on here by them though , for fear of the "me too" crowd , and the irritation of the "cant be true , lets pull it to pieces crowd"
What a load of rubbish!! You do spout some garbage Jason. You're saying it's worked for someone on here and they wont post and say so because someone might come on and say "Me too".? You need to read what you scribble before you hit the "Post" button. I've only seen people grasping at straws like this on the chat section.
Put your money where your mouth is and go and set up your Groupon scam deal and stop telling everyone about all these "respected posters" who've done it already.
If you want to stop the "lets pull it to pieces crowd" then go and do what you are spouting and posturing about.
We had people like that in the Army, "I'm gonna do this" " I'm gonna do that and kill a whole bunch of dead pigeons" Then when the brown stuff hits the fan, you can't find these chunks! But they talk a good fight. Are you one of those Jason? Or are you going to stop telling us how fantastic it will be and go and prove it?
Wynne I will come back to this thread, even if Jason makes his million with his magic beans he got on the way to the fair. ??? Best "Jack And The Beanstalk" story for years.
By the way, how can anyone "Pull it to pieces" if it works?
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Cozy , I have been there done it with million£ turnovers ,
I have nothing to prove especially to your good self. If you fancy a trip to Sheffield there are a couple of us carpet cleaners here who will drive you round our property and business portfolios , in vehicles you can only dream about. Thats not daft squaddie talk it has happened and is happening . I am just a hard working carpet cleaner building a business long term , not concerned about a few quid on Groupon , which is a tiny part of my plans.
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Hi Guys
This has now been locked as it degenerating, lets see what happens in the next few months and then we can all decide.
Please do not start another topic to carry on squabbles, it will be removed.
Thanks
Doug