Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Hedgehog on July 05, 2011, 06:13:41 pm
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Hi guys,
My van insurance is due for renewal. On the renewal documents from my existing insurance company, it stated that the renewal quote did not cover a water tank in the van and to ring if thats what I had. I gave them a call and it appears to have opened a can of worms for me.
Initial renewal quote £361 (already 30% higher than last year) but once water tank mentioned the cheapest was £600 as long as I get an engineers report to state that the tank is secure etc.
Rang round some other companies and most point blank refused to insure because the tank is strapped in as opposed to 'professionally' fitted. I am currently only using a 250lt tank although in process of getting a bigger one.
What is everyone else doing? Has anyone else had this problem? Any decent brokers/insurance companies I could try?
Any help much appreciated? :) :)
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you will find many will not be insured corectly, a kind of didnt ask so i didnt say excuse.
The water fed pole system is a good excuse for insuarnce company to double premiums
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Insurance companies will always ask you if the vehicle has been modified in any way. Some will ask you exactly what you have fitted if you're WFP then if you declare a tank will load your premium. Those who don't ask will probably just refuse to pay out in the even of a claim.
I would never have considered a tank in a truck or van as a modification as it's simply using a specific type of vehicle in accord with the purpose to which it is intended. However the insurance companies don't seem to consider this anymore and will likely leave you with no cover.
In my personal experience this is because many insurance companies are a load of lying, cheating weasels
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While trying to sort this out, I have just flooded the bloody van >:( >:(
I just dont get these companies. I was using 25lt containers before and by the sounds of it, this wouldn't be a problem.
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Insurance companies will always ask you if the vehicle has been modified in any way. Some will ask you exactly what you have fitted if you're WFP then if you declare a tank will load your premium. Those who don't ask will probably just refuse to pay out in the even of a claim.
I would never have considered a tank in a truck or van as a modification as it's simply using a specific type of vehicle in accord with the purpose to which it is intended. However the insurance companies don't seem to consider this anymore and will likely leave you with no cover.
In my personal experience this is because many insurance companies are a load of lying, cheating weasels
Mine is due and a few have rang me to quote, all asked about the tank. I did queery as to why it upped the premium as I am just using the van to transport my goods.
In the end I have just renewed my existing policy as they haven't asked and it is reasonable. As far as them not asking, I have disclosed all info asked for, so I am not in the wrong.
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What is everyone else doing? Has anyone else had this problem? Any decent brokers/insurance companies I could try?
A lot of guys on here are praying they dont have an accident.
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
:D ;D ;D
Just put my details through Tesco Compare £437 fully comp.....no mention of tank.
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Tesco don't ask, I know this as my friend is with them. But is that, they didn't ask because it's not a problem or they didn't ask because they'll argue that you modified it and didn't tell them? If someone would like to ask them and then tell us what they say it'll be interesting. If they really don't mind then I can see us all signing up with them. Otherwise any ambiguity in a policy usually means "your on your own pal".
This leads me to wonder: What do you do for insurance if you make and deliver water tanks?
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the way the's insurance company's are going about we will all be lucky to get insurance next year. mine went up from £458 to £660 :'( with aplan. PS that's with 9 years no claims as well
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Tesco don't ask, I know this as my friend is with them. But is that, they didn't ask because it's not a problem or they didn't ask because they'll argue that you modified it and didn't tell them? If someone would like to ask them and then tell us what they say it'll be interesting. If they really don't mind then I can see us all signing up with them. Otherwise any ambiguity in a policy usually means "your on your own pal".
This leads me to wonder: What do you do for insurance if you make and deliver water tanks?
Stop wondering as you would not deliver them full of water
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
:D ;D ;D
Just put my details through Tesco Compare £437 fully comp.....no mention of tank.
you leave your self open that if you have a serious accident you will not be covered and it is illigal not to have a vehicle insured
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Tesco don't ask, I know this as my friend is with them. But is that, they didn't ask because it's not a problem or they didn't ask because they'll argue that you modified it and didn't tell them? If someone would like to ask them and then tell us what they say it'll be interesting. If they really don't mind then I can see us all signing up with them. Otherwise any ambiguity in a policy usually means "your on your own pal".
This leads me to wonder: What do you do for insurance if you make and deliver water tanks?
Stop wondering as you would not deliver them full of water
See where your going with this. But that would of course then mean that any of us driving with empty tanks would be covered.
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
:D ;D ;D
Just put my details through Tesco Compare £437 fully comp.....no mention of tank.
you leave your self open that if you have a serious accident you will not be covered and it is illigal not to have a vehicle insured
Yep I want to do it correctly.
Just spoken with Done Deal Insurance (referred from Tesco Direct). They will refer it to underwriters tomorrow. So will report back tomorrow.
The girl I spoke with didn't feel that it was a modification as the 'load' is secured using strapping as opposed to secured to the van chassis. Wait and see I suppose.
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
:D ;D ;D
Just put my details through Tesco Compare £437 fully comp.....no mention of tank.
you leave your self open that if you have a serious accident you will not be covered and it is illigal not to have a vehicle insured
Yep I want to do it correctly.
Just spoken with Done Deal Insurance (referred from Tesco Direct). They will refer it to underwriters tomorrow. So will report back tomorrow.
The girl I spoke with didn't feel that it was a modification as the 'load' is secured using strapping as opposed to secured to the van chassis. Wait and see I suppose.
I'm Amazed!
Could it be you've stumbled across an intelligent insurance company?
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It's probably Ionics behind this new "money spinner".
They once tried to get ladders banned apparently.
However, w/c'ers haven't helped either, some people just seem hell bent on handing over reasons for insurers to hike premiums! ::)
Mine's strapped to manufacturers anchor points, I've offered up all the info required & read all the small print. I commit no offences & offer up no modifications. ;)
Mines less than £300 fully comp', including reduced £150 excess, legal protection & protected no claims. 8)
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It's probably Ionics behind this new "money spinner".
They once tried to get ladders banned apparently.
However, w/c'ers haven't helped either, some people just seem hell bent on handing over reasons for insurers to hike premiums! ::)
Mine's strapped to manufacturers anchor points, I've offered up all the info required & read all the small print. I commit no offences & offer up no modifications. ;)
Mines less than £300 fully comp', including reduced £150 excess, legal protection & protected no claims. 8)
Who are you insured with?
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try stephen eyre at G.T.Insurance, he is very helpful, his number is 0115 9394747, we have started going to him now as helpful and competetive, knows about the fitted tanks, just let him know, just because they havent asked about a tank it doesnt mean you cant tell them, if strapped in - its not a modification, if bolted in it is a modificatiion and its up to you to let them know youve modified your van, hope that helps,
george
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i have a tank with a metal frame around it ,it is fitted into the anchor points in the van floor,using the bolts that came with the van.would you consider this as a modification :)
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i have a tank with a metal frame around it ,it is fitted into the anchor points in the van floor,using the bolts that came with the van.would you consider this as a modification :)
if its bolted in then yes ;)
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Thanks for that .Will ring Stephen tomorrow.
Appreciate it.
try stephen eyre at G.T.Insurance, he is very helpful, his number is 0115 9394747, we have started going to him now as helpful and competetive, knows about the fitted tanks, just let him know, just because they havent asked about a tank it doesnt mean you cant tell them, if strapped in - its not a modification, if bolted in it is a modificatiion and its up to you to let them know youve modified your van, hope that helps,
george
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Thanks for that .Will ring Stephen tomorrow.
Appreciate it.
try stephen eyre at G.T.Insurance, he is very helpful, his number is 0115 9394747, we have started going to him now as helpful and competetive, knows about the fitted tanks, just let him know, just because they havent asked about a tank it doesnt mean you cant tell them, if strapped in - its not a modification, if bolted in it is a modificatiion and its up to you to let them know youve modified your van, hope that helps,
george
no probs mate
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Insurance is an arse!
Bolt a tank in for safety and get stung for a modification. Strap a tank down with a bungy chord and get let off a couple of hundred quid ???
Thick or what?
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Insurance is an arse!
Bolt a tank in for safety and get stung for a modification. Strap a tank down with a bungy chord and get let off a couple of hundred quid ???
Thick or what?
i know, it realy dont make sense
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i dont believe that it is tue that if its STRAPPED TO ANCHOR POINTS its ok.
i tried this with several companies still a mod.
the thing is i guess you will only know if its ok when you have a mjor accident, if you dont get paid out then your saving will go no were near covering you and other people
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I declared my tank to Commercial Vehicles Direct and they said it wasn't a problem but I asked them to record it on my record anyway.
If it becomes a problem I will just go back to containers, its no big deal for me. I would still use it like a van mount but just keep the water in containers.
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I declared my tank to Commercial Vehicles Direct and they said it wasn't a problem but I asked them to record it on my record anyway.
If it becomes a problem I will just go back to containers, its no big deal for me. I would still use it like a van mount but just keep the water in containers.
Cheers. Have filled in details for them to give me a quote also. :)
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It's probably Ionics behind this new "money spinner".
They once tried to get ladders banned apparently.
However, w/c'ers haven't helped either, some people just seem hell bent on handing over reasons for insurers to hike premiums! ::)
Mine's strapped to manufacturers anchor points, I've offered up all the info required & read all the small print. I commit no offences & offer up no modifications. ;)
Mines less than £300 fully comp', including reduced £150 excess, legal protection & protected no claims. 8)
If you have an accident with a full tank secured to the vehicles lugs its going to come flying off its fittings anyway, you may find you're not insured then as you have an insecure load. You might be pumelled too, in which case lack of insurance will be the last thing on your mind.
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If you have an accident with a tank full tank secured to the vehicles lugs its going to come flying off its fittings anyway, you may find you're not insured then as you have an insecure load. You might be pumelled too, in which case lack of insurance will be the last thing on your mind.
I can live with that. ;)
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Hi guys,
My van insurance is due for renewal. On the renewal documents from my existing insurance company, it stated that the renewal quote did not cover a water tank in the van and to ring if thats what I had. I gave them a call and it appears to have opened a can of worms for me.
Initial renewal quote £361 (already 30% higher than last year) but once water tank mentioned the cheapest was £600 as long as I get an engineers report to state that the tank is secure etc.
Rang round some other companies and most point blank refused to insure because the tank is strapped in as opposed to 'professionally' fitted. I am currently only using a 250lt tank although in process of getting a bigger one.
What is everyone else doing? Has anyone else had this problem? Any decent brokers/insurance companies I could try?
Any help much appreciated? :) :)
A-plan in birmingham,ask for kris
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It's probably Ionics behind this new "money spinner".
They once tried to get ladders banned apparently.
However, w/c'ers haven't helped either, some people just seem hell bent on handing over reasons for insurers to hike premiums! ::)
Mine's strapped to manufacturers anchor points, I've offered up all the info required & read all the small print. I commit no offences & offer up no modifications. ;)
Mines less than £300 fully comp', including reduced £150 excess, legal protection & protected no claims. 8)
If you have an accident with a full tank secured to the vehicles lugs its going to come flying off its fittings anyway, you may find you're not insured then as you have an insecure load. You might be pumelled too, in which case lack of insurance will be the last thing on your mind.
Exactly, so why worry! ;) live by the tank, die by the tank! 8)
Or....................I could get run over by a bus tomorrow too, I could catch viral gout, herpes, galloping mongoose disease, swamp foot, elephant piles the list goes on. There's some terrible things out there oakley lad! ;D
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Who said anything about dying?
Paralysis from the neck down is a reasonable alternative.
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Though saying that, after reading your last post it would appear any paralysis is from the neck up in your case.
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It's probably Ionics behind this new "money spinner".
They once tried to get ladders banned apparently.
However, w/c'ers haven't helped either, some people just seem hell bent on handing over reasons for insurers to hike premiums! ::)
Mine's strapped to manufacturers anchor points, I've offered up all the info required & read all the small print. I commit no offences & offer up no modifications. ;)
Mines less than £300 fully comp', including reduced £150 excess, legal protection & protected no claims. 8)
If you have an accident with a full tank secured to the vehicles lugs its going to come flying off its fittings anyway, you may find you're not insured then as you have an insecure load. You might be pumelled too, in which case lack of insurance will be the last thing on your mind.
if you do have a accident with a full tank of water you want to be alive to claim any insurance you be squashed like a bug :o
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It's probably Ionics behind this new "money spinner".
They once tried to get ladders banned apparently.
However, w/c'ers haven't helped either, some people just seem hell bent on handing over reasons for insurers to hike premiums! ::)
Mine's strapped to manufacturers anchor points, I've offered up all the info required & read all the small print. I commit no offences & offer up no modifications. ;)
Mines less than £300 fully comp', including reduced £150 excess, legal protection & protected no claims. 8)
If you have an accident with a full tank secured to the vehicles lugs its going to come flying off its fittings anyway, you may find you're not insured then as you have an insecure load. You might be pumelled too, in which case lack of insurance will be the last thing on your mind.
if you do have a accident with a full tank of water you want to be alive to claim any insurance you be squashed like a bug :o
My tank will be fine, it won't hit me. It's secured by more than the straps. ;) If it does, at least I die £200 up! :D
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What are the chances of drowning after an accident with a full tank?
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What are the chances of drowning after an accident with a full tank?
Good point, I think I'll inform my insurers of this new risk! ;)
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Height-Wise aims to benefit contractors and their clients alike, by raising standards, improving work practices, ensuring its members are adequately insured and always aware of the health and safety challenges that face them.
It is the aim of Height-Wise to:
• Promote improved working practices and conditions for all contractors.
• To promote professional conduct by our members at all times.
• To ensure that our members are adequately insured for your protection.
• To help customers make a better choice when choosing a contractor.
• To promote higher standards of health and safety.
• To provide information and help to contractors.
• To furnish new and up to date working methods to our members.
• To highlight the need for contractors to adapt to economic and architectural challenges.
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A-plan in birmingham,ask for kris
Yep. I went through a broker and told him about the tank. He got a guy from A Plan, to call me who knew all about window cleaners and their vans.
I pay £600 a year with no no claims discount (1st year with van), and my car insurance no claims bonus's didn't count; but he reckoned were taken into consideration (9 years).
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Height-Wise aims to benefit contractors and their clients alike, by raising standards, improving work practices, ensuring its members are adequately insured and always aware of the health and safety challenges that face them.
It is the aim of Height-Wise to:
• Promote improved working practices and conditions for all contractors.
• To promote professional conduct by our members at all times.
• To ensure that our members are adequately insured for your protection.
• To help customers make a better choice when choosing a contractor.
• To promote higher standards of health and safety.
• To provide information and help to contractors.
• To furnish new and up to date working methods to our members.
• To highlight the need for contractors to adapt to economic and architectural challenges.
And your point is?
My tank is strapped in so I don't qualify for the above?
Get a life Oakley!
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Oh dear, sore point methinks.
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Oh dear, sore point methinks.
Not a sore point, just a stupid, pointless post!
I take it you have a crash tested Ionics system?
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Heavens above of course not. There's plenty of middle ground you know.
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Heavens above of course not. There's plenty of middle ground you know.
Exactly. My point is, a tank doesn't necessarily have to be bolted through the chassis to be secure. Even the ones that are will only find out just how secure they are in a crash. Unless it's an Ionic system, you have no idea what will happen. ;)
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Heavens above of course not. There's plenty of middle ground you know.
Exactly. My point is, a tank doesn't necessarily have to be bolted through the chassis to be secure. Even the ones that are will only find out just how secure they are in a crash. Unless it's an Ionic system, you have no idea what will happen. ;)
Should we be drilling holes though the chassis?
Does anyone have any engineer's reports about that or is it a standard practise or something?
Serious; does anyone know?
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Heavens above of course not. There's plenty of middle ground you know.
Exactly. My point is, a tank doesn't necessarily have to be bolted through the chassis to be secure. Even the ones that are will only find out just how secure they are in a crash. Unless it's an Ionic system, you have no idea what will happen. ;)
Should we be drilling holes though the chassis?
Does anyone have any engineer's reports about that or is it a standard practise or something?
Serious; does anyone know?
I would imagine not many. It seems people get peed off that their insurance premium has just doubled because their vehicle is now classed as modified & so try to justify it by the safety aspect! ;D
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Unless it's an Ionic system, you have no idea what will happen. ;)
And what was the maximum speed of the crash test? I'm pretty sure it was at 30 MPH. So what would happen if you were travelling at 45 MPH? (Which, with a 1.9 Citreon Dispatch, is about my top speed! ;D)
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Well this is something I don't think we can afford to be flippant about.
Winproclean who are you insured with? It would be useful to know which insurance companies are bothered about this and which arent.
It is the aim of Height-Wise to:
• Promote improved working practices and conditions for all contractors.
• To promote professional conduct by our members at all times.
• To ensure that our members are adequately insured for your protection.
• To help customers make a better choice when choosing a contractor.
• To promote higher standards of health and safety.
• To provide information and help to contractors.
• To furnish new and up to date working methods to our members.
• To highlight the need for contractors to adapt to economic and architectural challenges.
very nice sounding words, but "heightwise" I think is basically just a website set up by Nat Jones so that he and a few of his buddies can have a logo to use to try to make them look professional. If you look on heightwise's website, there are only a handful of members, and the organizations address is the same as Nat Jones's.
Winproclean - are you Graeme Anderson of High Level Window Cleaners?
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What are the chances of drowning after an accident with a full tank?
now you have me worried mate as I cant swim, note to self buy some arm bands and flippers and a snorkel :D
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I called Dan Such at A-Plan Insurance today (amongst others!!) 01993 841841
He got me a policy at £441.57 comprehensive. He has special schemes for window cleaners with water tanks and knows what he is talking about. The insurance company they use are happy with water tanks up to 1000lts fitted or strapped in. The tank must be secure. £100 excess. Windscreen cover also (£60 excess)
Amount can be paid over 10 months (12% charge) or over 4 months or in full. Dan also offers insurance for tools in the van.
If you call Dan Such on the number above and mention my name R Smith you should qualify for a £25 discount also. :) :)
Hope that helps.
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iv just rang a plan and have about 500 pound of my renewel has of yet!!
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iv just rang a plan and have about 500 pound of my renewel has of yet!!
I'm with A Plan, they seem very window cleaner friendly.
But what do you mean, Ronnie? Do you mean they're 500 quid cheaper than the price of your renewal cost?
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Heavens above of course not. There's plenty of middle ground you know.
Exactly. My point is, a tank doesn't necessarily have to be bolted through the chassis to be secure. Even the ones that are will only find out just how secure they are in a crash. Unless it's an Ionic system, you have no idea what will happen. ;)
i have an idea about crash testing, , when our van crashed at around 60 - 70mph writting off 2 vans, only the tank moved just enough to snap water pipe and empty water all over motorway, the frame didnt move, occupants safe, would that have happened if strapped in only? maybe it would - i dont know, but maybe something worth considering,
george
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i think all the trad guys are laughing there sock off about all this. its OK to tell insurances you carry a tank in the back of your van and then they bump up the price but i think we need to starting telling them that our mobile phones sitting on the dash broad ;D ;D and we have just strapped that down as well because lets face it at 45mph and that phone its ya its going to hurt :'(. lets face it guys if we do have a accident the insurance will do all they can not to pay out anyway.
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iv just rang a plan and have about 500 pound of my renewel has of yet!!
I'm with A Plan, they seem very window cleaner friendly.
But what do you mean, Ronnie? Do you mean they're 500 quid cheaper than the price of your renewal cost?
ye that it, hopeing they can get it less but my renewal was close to 5K for a mini fleet.
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There is a lot of rubbish talked on this subject, most of it is emotionally driven. First of all and above all else the important thing for anyone to remember no matter what insurance you have or what securing methods, whether tested or not, is that you have a water tank in the back, water is loose/flexible /fluid and as such can generate large pressures/surges if you have to stop quick!! Its doesn't matter if you are insured to the hilt and have a fully crash tested system, you should still remember what you are carrying and drive with care. If anyone thinks they can drive their WFP van as they drive their car because they are well insured and crash tested then more fool them! That said........
I've insured several vans for window cleaning, some ask about the tank, some don't. The ones that have asked about a tank have not asked for any crash testing certs. If they asked me for a cert and i couldn't provide one then i would take out the frame and secure it with webbing strapping so its not a 'mod' .Whatever van you have will have manufacturers data for the van loading/restraining points and it should be within their criteria.
I would personally refuse to deal with an insurance company that wanted tank certs as their is no national/EU regs that cover the fitting of tanks so its at their own bequest you furnish them with such details. And , to be honest such details are just a quango driven requirement from the likes of <certain known WFP system manufacturers> and Thatcham Research ( a private profit making company).
who also liase with insurance companies.
I also got an email today, same as many of you will of done...........
from H20 systems or someone like that waffling on about crash tested systems.
So...if its too expensive or you can't provide a cert then get it strapped down good with appropriate rated webbing/ratchet straps, rely on the manufacturers tolerances for securing points. Or alternativley tell them to get stuffed with their crash testing certs request. Fitting only involves spreader plates or bars and does not include going into a chassis for securing. If it included going into a chassis for securing them they'd have to do one for each model they did.
The best insurance is to drive like your tank might kill you if it came adrift ad also you want the cheapest one !!!
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Top post, Mike.
And if you - like me - work with your lass, this is an important safety feature:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/newseatbeltdesignjpgpagespeedceS6rDDuedRc.jpg)
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I`ve heard something that might interest you about this today. Apparently, the police have a new crack team checking water tanks to see if they are secured or not. It`s down to a large increase in the number of wfp users sloshing about on the roads.
They are called the Secured Tank Detectives. I strongly suggest you contact your insurance and ask have they any experience of STD`s.
I`m insured with a firm called Vic Dennis (www.VD.co.ck) and they are certainly on the balls with this subject.
Contact them and ask for Rob Knott or Dick Hitchen and tell them I sent you ;).
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I`ve heard something that might interest you about this today. Apparently, the police have a new crack team checking water tanks to see if they are secured or not. It`s down to a large increase in the number of wfp users sloshing about on the roads.
They are called the Secured Tank Detectives. I strongly suggest you contact your insurance and ask have they any experience of STD`s.
I`m insured with a firm called Vic Dennis (www.VD.co.ck) and they are certainly on the balls with this subject.
Contact them and ask for Rob Knott or Dick Hitchen and tell them I sent you ;).
like it, very good
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Common sense really - do you carry your kids/wife in the van?
Do you think those little spot welded loops they fit in the French vans will hold the tank? Spreader plates under the tin floor?
Try lifting your tank off the floor with half an inch of water in it.
Choice is yours at the moment - might not always be that way.
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
:D ;D ;D
Just put my details through Tesco Compare £437 fully comp.....no mention of tank.
There is often a fallback clause with insurance companies that if there is something that you are unsure about whether to tell them, then you must tell them. IMO it would be difficult to argue that a fitted water tank did not come into this area.
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How many points have you got, Hedgehog? ;D
Sorry, I couldn`t resist :-[.
:D ;D ;D
Just put my details through Tesco Compare £437 fully comp.....no mention of tank.
There is often a fallback clause with insurance companies that if there is something that you are unsure about whether to tell them, then you must tell them. IMO it would be difficult to argue that a fitted water tank did not come into this area.
paul what about when we carry barrels of water and the insurance are not bothered at all can you explain that one please
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been sorting my insurance out for weeks has its up tonight midnight.
any way you will be suprised how many brookers or insures dont ask about water tanks bolted or strapped but when you mention you will also be suprised how much there quote goes up!!! my point is that you are responsible to make them aware and if you dont all be it your insureance may be half but you will more than likely not be insured in the event of accident! one quote was £2700 i thought freat went up to £4150 when i told them about water tanks. but that still ended up my cheapist
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been sorting my insurance out for weeks has its up tonight midnight.
any way you will be suprised how many brookers or insures dont ask about water tanks bolted or strapped but when you mention you will also be suprised how much there quote goes up!!! my point is that you are responsible to make them aware and if you dont all be it your insureance may be half but you will more than likely not be insured in the event of accident! one quote was £2700 i thought freat went up to £4150 when i told them about water tanks. but that still ended up my cheapist
Do you think it would make a difference if the systems were Ionics Ronnie? (crash tested)
At those prices it makes you wonder if Ionic systems may become economical just by the insurance costs.
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never once did they ask if the the system was ionics, brodex ect or if it had an engineers report??
i do believe in time it will become more comprehosve to get insurance on a van with any kind of reach and wash system in it.
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just got a quote fromallied insurance told them about the tank £340 ;D
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I got pulled by the Secured Tank Detectives today! They were a stern looking bunch and my tank is unsecured :(.
The STD`s made me open the back of the van to have a look and I thought I`m a goner here, but I`d piled a load of scrims on it and they didn`t even see it.
They looked baffled.......unlike my tank.....but they had to let me go and I went off like the clappers.