Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Bob Robertson on October 15, 2005, 05:21:28 pm
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Hi everyone
Trying to decide what machine to go for. I've had Prochem (Steempro) and Alltec (Advantage) demos. Now considering the eclipse. Keeping in mind I'm new to this game, any views on using the eclipse to startup in the cc business?
Regards
tihson
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Can't comment on either of the machines but what i can say is this.
Many years ago when i got my first computer i was told that it was a brilliant starter package and was ideal for me as i have little experience with computers.
I quickly found that the computer was just making things harder for myself because compared to what was available the computer was very slow and under powered. needless to say i quickly upgraded to a more suitable computer that would perform at a level that enabled me to use a wider range of software. An expensive lesson, 2 computers in a short period of time when i could have bought the more powerful machine to start with.
cheers Goron
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Tihson,
It's worth thinking about the type of work you are going for.
Some of the bigger machines are not very portable due to their weight.
If you are going to do lots of flats or other inaccessible jobs then I would suggest you do not go any bigger than the machines you have demo'd.
Cheers,
Doug
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I have a heavy machine and use several lengths of hose with no problems. My Grandad (who was a mater cabinet maker always used to say "always use the biggest tool that you can on a job"
Trevor
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buy a second hand truckmount,if things dont work out you will lose very little money compaired to a portable.
Lee G
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tihson
Both very good replies! Don’t know how much each machine costs and the price difference between them. But at the end of the day it down to your budget after taking in advertisements costs, van, insurances, bit and pieces and not forgetting training.
Have seen and used the eclipse powerful machine more so than the others, only thing not happy with regulator in the wrong place and vac exhaust configuration probably an American thing, this is a personal observation, why not have a look at the Scorpion 3.
Len
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Buy a second hand portable then if things dont work out you wont be stuck with a new machine at a high cost .
when thing do work out you,ll be able to judge for yourself what will suit you, and then you,ll have a back up machine.
Neil
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Neil forgive me for asking but you been on the boards for a long time.
When will you consider yourself not to be a new starter.
On the other hand I know its you.
Not sure if we still have two Mark Roberts aqnd when you read them quickly which ones which.
In answer to the question I have no Idea as I have only seen the eclipse.
and not played with it.
Also the next toy I want is a Rotovac, and I keep reading keep preasure at 100 therefore I would not need a more poweful pump.
I like Dougs answer consider ease of servicing and repairs, distance cost do you have to return machine in six months for service, maybee there is a service agreement and how easy to do it yourself.
And as Nieil says there are some good ones on Ebay and possibly a couple of Truckmounts for sale,
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Ian I have changed it now ;D
Neil
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Ian
What do you mean.... "and I keep reading keep preasure at 100" where have you read this?
Chris
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Hi Guys
The problem being is there are a lot of flats in Glasgow but I dont want to restrict myself to residential customers and would be targeting businesses aswell . This is why I am thinking that the eclipse would be the better option from what I've read on here it has got good reviews and like Goron says Iwould hate to buy a machine then a couple of months later wish i had bought a more powerfull one. Isnt the eclipse like in between a truckmount / portable thus having the best of both?
P.S I dont want to consider failing before I even start lol.
Regards
tihson
tihson
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top of the range ninja all the way for me very high heat auto fill auto dump two good vacs high pressure pump great service , add a tank in your van clean allday cant recon this setup enough just great !!!!
its the last setup before truckmount , thats if u ever need truck mount and it will work fine with 100ft plus pf hoses
gary
p.s and it really gets up to steam at that length !!! .all this spec just of two leads as well 8)
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Ive just bought an eclipse 500, and must say its by far the best machine i have ever owned.
Firstly all the controls and cable,s are at the same end of the machine, this makes it more manageable when working, the suction power of this machine is far more than other portable,s.
Add to this the booster box, and you will have drying times that are just fantastic.
And to the best of my knowledge, you don't have to rtn it for 6 month service,s and so one.
Close loop carpet tiles dry in 20 Min's,without the booster box is just an indication of the power,and the high psi of the pump, make this a must have machine,
I did have an alteck pro, a very good machine, which served me well, however you just cant compare the 2, in my opinion the pump lets down the allteck, the eclipse is heavy,but a ramp in the van cured that one.
Dave
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Dave
Do you have to courier it to them for the service and how long would you be without it? Do you use a spare machine when this is being done which would be another topic !!! more money AHH!!
tihson
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Dave
Thanks for the chat. :)
tihson
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Hi Tihson,
Up here in Glasgow i think only prochem have an outlet thats handy? imo its nice to have a service engineer close at hand in case it all goes wrong one day. So we chose a second hand prochem machine.
As to the pump power of the machine etc.. well i figure its all part of the cleaning pie chart. Time/Chemical/Agitation/Temperature. If the pump is a bit low on power ie agitation... then spend more time working in the prespray or increase one of the other parameters.
Cheers
Graeme
ACS
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Graeme
Alltec have a place in Clydebank just down the road from you. He sells all their products and sevices the machines even Prochem . Save you a drive to Greenock!
R&B Cleaning Services
Unit 6 Clyde Business Centre
31 Clyde Street
G81 1PF
Cheers
tihson
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:D
Cheers m8
Graeme
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Hi All
We have an engineer in Edinburgh who can service our machines so no need to ship to us in Cornwall,
Hope this helps
Best regards Nick
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Hi Guys,
I can honestly say that most of my grief in CC has come from machine breakdowns, waiting for the parts , trying to get my CC popeye forearms into tiny space to fit new vacs etc ::)
If you can find a good , local service centre then that is a big plus .
However worth asking how long to fix , say a faulty pump.
I would suggest it's even worth ringing up and hypothetically enquiring as to how long to repair my broken machine?
I tried our local Prochem dealer and although they are nice guys the repair service was awful and on more than one occaision I had to fix the 'repair' myself.
Cheers,
Doug
p.s
If you are a good engineer then you will not have many problems
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Dear Tihson
If you want a chat about the eclipse and altec pro plus which i have and use daily ring me on 07717 580085 simon
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No one has mentioned that the Eclipse does not have a heater!!!! (this is what I have been told) Am I right? If I am it would stop me buying one :-[
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yes correct the eclipse no heater,the ninja has two ,1500 watt pre heat tank and a 3000 watt inline heater which is superb u really can get it up to steam, and iam great beleavier in the hotter the water the easer and better clean u get, this is one of the main reasons i chose a ninja over the eclpise its just got alot more opptions and its cheaper ,i paid £3000 for two heaters two heavy duty 3 stag vacs auto fill auto dump and 400 psi pump and this runs off two leads and if the tap water is really hot u only hav to plug in one lead add a baff fresh water tank and a 12volt pump for £300 and u can clean allday long so for £3300 pounds u got u self an electric truckmount setup, and for couple extra pounds the ninja has a booster lid for hooking up your back up machine to it if u ever need 4x 3 stage vacs!, for me although the eclispe is a great machine because it has 3 x2 stage vacs they sacreficed any heat options, very overated machine p.s u could get a triple vac machine years before the eclpise came out
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Able,
The Eclipse does not have a built in heater but both Alltec and Extracta have and Prochem can have.
As a newbie I would want an in tank heater as it is one less thing to mess around with.
Cheers,
Doug
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Doug
Its also less effective both the machines you mention are a fraction ogf the power of either the eclipse or the scorpion, using basics of entry level cleaning. If you decrease either temperature, chemical, reaction, or time, all you need to do is increase one or all of the rest to get an equal reaction, many in our industry are working using machines that produce steam, are they forgeting that the majority of carpet pile is heat set, heat in carpet cleaning is made far to much of an issue.
Best regards Nick
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mmmm why do u sell £500 plug in heaters to your custs ::)then?
gary
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I used to run a Allteck advantage pro with a heater in tank.
Ive just bought a eclipse, it doesn't have a heater, and i have found that i don't need one!
using M/S and doing things the right way. having heat makes no difference, as nick mentioned, most pile is heat set, i for one would not want to use "steam"
The power of the eclipse works, i get cleaner carpets and my drying times are great, with the eclipse.
When i started cleaning carpets(many yrs ago) my machine didn't have heat,none of them did! and we didn't give heat a second thought!
I find tap water to be ample, and by not having to wait for the machine to heat up, my productivity has increased.
I do believe the heat issue is SIMULA to the early thinking about m/s, in so far as "Ive always done it this way" so it is the right way, we just need to open our minds and try things a different way every now and again, who would have used chewing gum remover to clean of Lilly pollen, if we didn't try different things 8)
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quote : "having heat makes no diffrence" so come on then y dos u suppiler sell them ? ::)
gary lol ;D
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Gary
If you want to buy it I will supply it
Its called supply and demand, I also make a point of explaining heat and its positive and negative aspect to all prospective purchasers.
Best regards Nick
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;D lol
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Nick ,
To say the machines I mention are a fraction of the power is a bit misleading , the Advantage must be seven eigths of the suction power of the Eclipse with a built in heater which is a big fraction!
Obviously all machines are limited by their power draw and its a bit swings and roundabouts.
I still say that a twin vac , relatively portable machine with an inbuilt heater is a lot easier to use for a new starter than one which requires an additional heater.
I know you are trying to cover all bases but i am just passing on my experience.
Dave
The question of whether fresh water rinsing leads to faster resoiling is another interesting topic which several experienced CC's claim and is apparently in Dr. Eric Brown's book.
Cheers,
Doug
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Sorry I have to disagree with you Doug having been one of the first in the country to have the eclipse.I have had an extracta exel and a ninja it's not rocket science to flick four swithes on the eclipse just like the exel and three on the ninja.An extra switch for the inline heater is no hardship really is it.
Now I just turn a key and start the engine and away I go.
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Doug
Have you used either the eclipse or the scorpion.
I have used extracta, asbys Ninja, US Products, Truvox, Alltech Advantage, and Alltechs 4 vac unit which is no longer produced, and I would add this was in actual carpet cleaning situations, not a set up test.
I can say from experience currently these two machines do not have any comparable competition.
Nothing misleading there.
Best regards Nick
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Hi all,
This ones interesting I am looking at the moment I am relativley inexperienced so please excuse my ignorance in advance.
Why no mention of CFR PRO STATION 500 it looks nice it recycles, "less refilling" I would of thought this machine was a serious contender, I have seen this machine being used for rug cleaning on recent ncca road show I thought it was very quiet but the pressure could have been turned right down, my work is all domestic so a low noise level without loss of power is important to me, any thoughts.
Many thanks
Ian
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Nick,
I have only used the Eclipse in a demo situation and thought it was O.K and did give more suction that the Alltec Advantage but not markedly so , maybe another 10-15%.
If you wish to lend me an Eclipse and or Scorpion 3 ,I will trial and reoprt back.
None of these machines were anywhere near the truckmounts.
I feel I should point out in the interest of balance to those that don't know , that Nick supplies both Eclipse and Scorpion.
Steve,
It's not the extra switch but the extra cable.it's also that in line heaters can lead to hot spots particularly on restarting work which can cause problems especially on synthetics.
The question was whether an Eclipse was suitable for a new starter and I still believe a good quality twin vac with a built in heater is easier to use, manouvre and more cost effective for a newcomer to CC.
Ian,
Some experienced CC's swear by the CFR and as it has only one vac, I believe it is quiet.There are so many options including the almost dry ones like Texatherm and Dry Fusion which others swear by.
Cheers,
Doug
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Hi Ian just a quick note on noise ,you should be looking to leave the machine outside the house where possible ,it makes life a lot easier.
cheers mark
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yes great idea doug, nick send me and doug down these two machines and we will test them against my ninja set up and dougs set up , because i think my ninja will clean better than your set ups which hav no heat cant comment on dougs as i hav never used his set up
please explain to me why u belive no machines come close to yours ? as all an eclipse has is one extra vac thats it so i cant c how they are so much better imo
cheers gary
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Don't hold your breath!! ??? ??? ::)
Regards Nick
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Ian
I brought A CFR pro 400 in april
Call me if you want to chat
Michel 020 8743 3977
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Hi Guys
I have one and its great, sold a TM to get it. Cant wait to get the extra unit that solution are now doing, it will put carpet drying times up with TM's
Use mine from the van at some jobs, did some school work in the summer and used auto fill and pump out, saved loads of time.
Respect
Ian Harper
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Now we are cleaning :o :o
The eclipse plus the booster box, this is the best setup out there,
the power and dy
rying times have to be seen to belived
Dave
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And how will these drying times compare to a truckmount with glides?
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Just to let you all know I have bought the eclipse which I will get on Tues ;D. Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice it is very much appreciated. I know people will always have difference of opinion and thats whats so good about this forum. I'll let yous know how I get on with it .
Thanks again
tihson
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tihson, glad you good see the wood for the trees, just give me a call if you need any help,
Dave
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Cheers Dave
Can't wait to get started.
P.S. keep your phone on ,I'll need the help lol
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Fine choice!!
Having used a few portable machines I can honestly say the Eclipse is easily the best and I've had mine a year without any problems, at the end of the day our tools are there to make our jobs easier.
The additional solution power coupled with the inline heater has increased productivity over lesser machines 3 fold at least, trust me 135psi is simply not enough if your up against real dirt!!
Another obvious plus with the eclipse is the build quality, I have no doubt this is the best built porty on the market, this may contribute to its weight which to be honest isnt as unmanagable as some make out.
Regards
Paul
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3 fold!! yer right o ::)
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grow up!!
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Paul,
Can we try to keep it friendly , a 3 fold increase in productivity is a rather wild claim.
Cheers,
Doug
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Hi Doug,
I'm serious!! On a dirty pub or club carpet the additional solution pressure and heat have allowed me to use 8001 jets, using (unless really bad) single wand passes, this combined with the eclipses increased tank capacity has cut the cleaning time drastically, I dare say a TM would give even greater efficiency. Take into consideration my previous machine was a prochem comanche with no heat!!
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Fair enough ,
Heat is the absolute key on a really dirty carpet.
Cheers,
Doug
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Your not wrong Doug, heat does the business when sugary drinks mainly coke I expect are wall to wall.
Paul
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hi paul ;D if iam using a 400psi machine with 100ft hose, heater that gets up to a very hot constant temp with burst of steam auto fill(with a 300 litre tank) auto dump never hav to take machine out never hav to go back out to van to fill or empty do all this of two leads how can u claim 3 fold incres proud over portable other portble setups? thats just madness imo
regards gary
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All depends on the job, I agree in most situations that kind of time saving is never going to happen, the regular job I have in mind has benefited for the reasons I stated above.
Why on earth would I make something up :-\
Paul
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mmm now i am lost ::) lol are u saying u hav made your jobs faster and better to do as oposed to your old setup or just other portable setups if it is becasuse of u old setup then u are 100% right because a commache machine that u had although allright its micky mouse compared to your new setup freindly regards gary
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Totally agree! The comanche is a toy by comparison, although the twin 3 stage vacs performed well over short distances the 100psi solution pump is the machines major downfall. As I stated before running smaller jets at higher pressures with heat have allowed for frugal but highly effective rinsing/cleaning, so considerably less time faffing about with buckets.
Paul
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Its arrived.
Got the eclipse today. I have only had a small play with it and it seems to be a VERY NICE MACHINE ;D
regards
tihson
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Hi Tihson
How are you going to get it in and out of your van? Nick got me a ramp and hose reel built for mine, but I have come up with a cheap way around this now, second hand wheel chair ramps, the manual types that you get on the back of minibuses. ebay would be a great place to start looking.
One other thing if you got the high pressure machine (500psi) then get a tap put on your pressure hose so it easier to change tools.
Good luck
Respect
Ian Harper
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Thanks Ian
I am looking on ebay for a ramp just now , also seen the one Steve Gunn has got from a previous post . What is a tap for the pressure hose as i have the high pressure (500psi) machine ?
Thanks
tihson
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hi its an on, off valve so u can change tools at the end of hose without going back to machine to release the pressure , a must if u hav pump over 200psi, i hav the ball valve type on mine u, can get them for couple £ from your local hose supplier
gary
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Hi
I have shut off valves in stock now..
Best regards Nick
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Hi, just to add, to what already as been said,turn "shut off valve" off, hold trigger in on tool, makes changing even easier.
Conrad
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Tihson
Will you be using "quick drying times" in all your marketing? how much hose will you be using? as drying times will be differant depending on this.
Its a grat all round machine. and solutions are adding new things all the time. Did you see the new boster? and have they sorted out the tile foor tool? I have heard that they are trying to make it produce more than 500psi with low water flow so it will keep up with the auto pump out on the machine.
What I would like to see is some way that you can test the vac output (lift) so you can keep an eye on the performance of them.
Did you hear any news about whats coming when you where down there? Nick is so busy these days its hard to get a chat with him. And he has to watch what he talks about on here. it would be nice if ALL vendors could talk about their services and products in a professional way on here.
Any problems just post and I'll be happy to help out as will all the other eclipse owners.
How mauch experance have you had with hot water extraction?
Respect
Ian Harper
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Hi Ian
I never got down to see Nick as it was turning into 3 days with travelling down and up . I have had a chat with him over the phone and he is planning to come up to Glasgow or Edinburgh after the new year for a seminar so i'll see him then. I wont use drying times to start with on my marketing until i am more experienced and can back up my claims.My priority is getting used to the equipment first and getting some custies £££££ :)
Thanks for the support
tihson
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Hi, just to add, to what already as been said,turn "shut off valve" off, hold trigger in on tool, makes changing even easier.
Conrad
u hav to do this to release pressure anyhow just turning valve off wouldnt let u change a tool ::)
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I was aiming that at Tihson with him been a new larker ::) depends if the machine is running or not and how strong you are ;)
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Tihson
Go for it, have the confindance. -)
I think you will be missing prospects by not putting it in. think about all those people that have had bad cleans.
Respect
Ian Harper
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Hi Ian
Ive now done a few family and friends carpets and a 2x3 seater suit and the drying times are fantastic so you have made me think i should use it as a selling point.
cheers
tihson