Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: H h20 on October 15, 2005, 04:37:03 pm

Title: di flow
Post by: H h20 on October 15, 2005, 04:37:03 pm
Does anyone know if that the slower the water runs through di resin it lasts longer,only it was a while back i think i read a post about it,but i can`t find it,Gaz
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 15, 2005, 09:47:06 pm
no it does not
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: H h20 on October 15, 2005, 10:58:23 pm
no it does not
How do you know?
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: gaza on October 16, 2005, 12:59:21 am
GAZ:I dont think is does,but if you tear as about in 1st gear in your car what happens? what does affect resin purification is if you get theor reverse the flow check them little arrows make sure you have the floww in the right dirrection.

gaza
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: S Page on October 16, 2005, 09:08:14 am
I've found by minimising the flow through the DI cylinders they do appear to last longer.

I think this is due however to actually using less water per clean rather than the resin actually producing more pure water, but why use more water than you need to?

P & F wrote this about making resin lasting longer;
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10615.0
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: H h20 on October 16, 2005, 09:19:03 am
Can you believe it,i have just found the same post,and then someone else puts it back on,cheers,i also found a post by Williamx saying that if you run your water too fast through resin it increases the tds reading,Gaz.
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 16, 2005, 10:26:02 am
If the vessil is big enough you can have a fairly fast flow rate ,if your asking can it raise the tds then the answer is yes as the resin wont have time to do its majic if the flow is too fast for the amount  of resin in the vessil.
The resin only has a certain capacity to absorb the tds whether the flow is fast or slow it can not absorb more than its limit .
so the answer to you original question is no
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 16, 2005, 11:39:39 pm
How wierd is this , just seen my post dragged up again , and only tonight i did a resin change and have set up my contraption again , it was coming out at 15 tds and in my contraption im getting 000 again .
This has made my mind up to do what i wanted a while ago , use a di worth of new resin in my contraption to see what ammount of pure i get.
Normaly through my van mount i get 1200L from one di at 100 tds at tap , wonder what i will get through the P @ F filter system ! LOL

 cHEERS rich P @ F  :P
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: williamx on October 17, 2005, 11:05:49 am
Rich

With tap water reading of 100 tds, you should be getting 5000 litres of pure water not the 1200 litres you are getting at the moment.
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 17, 2005, 11:34:39 am
William , the 5000 L that you are on about is for the whole bag isnt it ,
500,000 divided by TDS rule
The 1200 im on about is per vessel , i get 4 vessels per bag .

 Rich P @ F
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 17, 2005, 11:39:15 am
Just checked the machine and so far i have about 100 L of 000 TDS ,
Not bad for resin that was giving 15 TDS from the vessel .

 Rich P @ F
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: williamx on October 17, 2005, 12:28:18 pm
Rich

You are right.

I have thought of a way to make the resin go further.  If you collect rainwater which normally has a tds reading of 20 tds, you then pump this though you di tank to get rid of these tds.

That way a 25 litres should produce 25000 litres of pure water instead of the 5000 you are getting.
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: dai on October 17, 2005, 08:21:12 pm
I measured rain water last week that had collected on top of my containers, It was
000TDS. I measured it again coming from the downspout, It was 007PPM coming off a slate roof. Measured the TDS in a rain butt at my mates 27PPM off a felt roof. There are definate savings to be made using rain water if your DI only. Dai
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 17, 2005, 09:12:55 pm
Yes , thats somthing i have looked at , its just a case of getting a 1000L ibc , i thought about getting some more butts but that would work out way too expensive

 Rich   P @ F
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: gaza on October 17, 2005, 09:31:51 pm
iVE READ SOMEWHERE SNOW IS PURE WATER?

  GAZA
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: poles apart on October 17, 2005, 09:34:47 pm
yellow snow isn't! :o
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: H h20 on October 17, 2005, 09:34:56 pm
iVE READ SOMEWHERE SNOW IS PURE WATER?

  GAZA
Unless it`s yellow  :D
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 17, 2005, 09:35:23 pm
You can freeze water to deionize it .Dont quote me but i think the impurities get forced to the outer or inner ,cant quite remember.

Dave
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: thewindowcleaner1 on October 17, 2005, 09:39:00 pm
Quote
iVE READ SOMEWHERE SNOW IS PURE WATER?

That it then lets all chip in and hire a sea tanker and go to the north pole fill it up with snow and bring it back
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 17, 2005, 09:42:44 pm
A technique used in most ice manufacturing plants that make large blocks of ice is to put a tube in the center of the container of water that is to be frozen. Through the tube they bubble a very low pressure stream of air. Before the tube becomes ice-bound, they remove it, and they pour or suction the water that is left in the center of the ice block away. All of the impurities -- dirt, dissolved air and minerals -- are forced into this water by the crystallizing ice. They fill the void with fresh water (or not) and continue freezing. The core of the block is clouded but the rest of the block is clear. If the core is not refilled and frozen, the entire block is clear
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: thewindowcleaner1 on October 17, 2005, 09:45:49 pm
Quote
A technique used in most ice manufacturing plants that make large blocks of ice is to put a tube in the center of the container of water that is to be frozen. Through the tube they bubble a very low pressure stream of air. Before the tube becomes ice-bound, they remove it, and they pour or suction the water that is left in the center of the ice block away. All of the impurities -- dirt, dissolved air and minerals -- are forced into this water by the crystallizing ice. They fill the void with fresh water (or not) and continue freezing. The core of the block is clouded but the rest of the block is clear. If the core is not refilled and frozen, the entire block is clear


Well i never that little ice machine behind my local bar does ALL that I'm amazed..
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: gaza on October 17, 2005, 10:13:23 pm
Better urry up and get that boat to antartic the ice is melting.

   gaza
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: williamx on October 18, 2005, 12:10:20 am
Rich

You don't need a IBC tank.

All you need is a container to collect the rain water, say a plastic storage box, put some netting over the top, to stop rubbish getting in and when it is filled just pump it though your di bottle (you can use the same pump that you use to clean the windows with) into your pure water containers'.

William The Mad Inventor ;)
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 18, 2005, 09:58:24 am
William , i thought of the ibc cos i dont want to mess about every night , changing  over hoses and all that nonsense , basically if i had an ibc i could just connect up my house hose and leave on trickle permanantely , that way the ibc would always be topping up with 000 TDS water through my home made filter , which i would use new resin in .
Im lucky cos my house is elevated from my van mount , so turn the tap and gravity will do its thing !
This idea all hinges on the outcome of the next experiment , so i will use new resin in my contraption and this will tell for sure if slower flow treats more water than the normal di in van method .
I will still have the di in the van obviously , but this will very rarely need a change if it is being fed with nigh on pure water .
Tell me if you see any flaws in my plan , i cant see any .

  Rich  P @ F   
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: williamx on October 18, 2005, 02:47:15 pm
One slight flaw, if you use a ibc to collect the water, the inlet hole is rather small so the amount of rain water you could collect would be small in quantity.

What you will need is a method of collecting the rain water in a faster way and then channelling this into the ibc.

The greater the size of this funnel the better.

You could use a tarpalin which you pitch over the ibc tank, like a tent, with the centre going into the ibc tank.

William The Mad Inventor ;)
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 18, 2005, 02:58:38 pm
William ,

 Or i could put a piece of guttering along the back wall of my newly roofed garage , and collect all that lovely low TDS rain in vast quantities !  LOL

  ;D  :P  ;D  :P  ;D  :P  ;D    Rich   P @ F

Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 21, 2005, 10:32:16 am
Well im sorry to bang on but i have or will by 6 tonight have hit the 450 L mark,
This is still using the old resin from the change on the 16th .
Admitedly this is a slow process , 450 L in 120 hours , about 4 L per hour , but that isnt bad coming from resin that was giving me 15 TDS through the DI !
And the 450 L is all 000 TDS
Once this resin gives up i am definately trying it with fresh resin , im gonna find out for sure if slow flow prolongs the life of resin .

  Rich P @ F  ;D
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 22, 2005, 08:35:32 pm
 550 now peeps  ;D :o ::) :P

  Rich  P @ F
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 24, 2005, 10:01:42 am
HEHEHE , 700 L and still going strong , BORING !
Weather is poop so going to pick up an ibc in a mo , totally out of storage now , the other half might kick up if i start on her saucepans !   ;D ;D ;D

 Rich P @ F 
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: dai on October 28, 2005, 09:51:54 pm
P@F I think I'v figured out how your system works.
When we pass water through a DI vessel there are two forces at work.
Force A- The movement of water through the vessel.
Force B - The attraction of the resin for the ions in the water.
Imagine the resin is a magnate in a plastic pipe. We then blow iron filings through the pipe. At first all the filings are attracted to the magnate. As more filings are attacted, the attraction of the magnate becomes weaker.
Eventually the momentum of the filings become greater than the magnates attraction and some will pass through the pipe.
It could be the same with DI resin.
We can't do anything to increase the attraction without changing the resin.
We can reduce the momentum of the ions by decreasing the flow.
With the flow decreased, the attraction of the resin is once more greater than than the momentum of the ions and they attach to it.
With your system, instead of water passing through at say 50PSI tap pressure. you have only the force of gravity.
I can't see the advantage of using new resin from the start but I think your system could be even more efficient if the water was sprayed over the the whole surface area of your resin bed.
Nice one mate. Keep experimenting. Dai
Title: Re: di flow
Post by: P @ F on October 28, 2005, 11:48:33 pm
Hi  Dai , im still experimenting , just picked up my ibc today , and i changed the resin for new resin , that old resin i was using was up to the 1050 L mark and it was still going strong , so thats 1050 L and at least a weeks work in the di in the van altogether that must have been at least 2000 L in all , and when you think it is only supposed to go for 1250 L in all , i reckon my case is proved .

 Rich  P @ F