Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul Evans on June 26, 2011, 11:49:02 am
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Just passed the NCCA course, I am considering joining to promote in my marketing.
I can only see this having a positive effect in marketing for a newbie. Maybe not so much for a established Business.
Your thoughts Please.
Paul
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i honestly have not seen any benefit by being a member however it works out at about £4 a week to be able to use their logo etc and i do know of at least one cc who 's was glad of their help when dealing with a problem that occured with a stroppy customer. if it was £500 a year i would probably not be a member.
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Come on pollsters a bit of feedback.
Paul
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Hi Paul
Have been a member of the NCCA for a number off years.
Have been involved by going to AGM and also organizing a number of roadshows.
The cost is worth it as the referals we get pays for it and people say they choose us because we are members of the NCCA.
Their are a number of carpets cleaners who after being trained by them think that gives them the right to say of their adverts trained by the NCCA.
The NCCA ask that the term Trained by the NCCA is not used in adverts and links are not used to link their website to the NCCA website unless they are a member if everyone did that the NCCA would die and we would have no trade organization .
People who do that in my opinion are like parasites who use the NCCA but are not willing to pay for the privledge and so support the association.
I know now that on the training courses that the person being trained has a sign that they will not use the Ncca name or logo unless they join and pay the membeship fee.
In my opinion the cost is far outweighed by the benefits.
Ray
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Raymondo
Whilst i agree with a lot of your comment.
If people are trained by the NCCa why not market the fact ?
They cant say they are approved by them unless they are members.
Has for parasites a little strong, most are just trying to make a living and look after there families. Without sponging off the state ( now that is a parasite if there able to work )
Paul
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Hi Paul
Have been a member of the NCCA for a number off years.
Have been involved by going to AGM and also organizing a number of roadshows.
The cost is worth it as the referals we get pays for it and people say they choose us because we are members of the NCCA.
Their are a number of carpets cleaners who after being trained by them think that gives them the right to say of their adverts trained by the NCCA.
The NCCA ask that the term Trained by the NCCA is not used in adverts and links are not used to link their website to the NCCA website unless they are a member if everyone did that the NCCA would die and we would have no trade organization .
People who do that in my opinion are like parasites who use the NCCA but are not willing to pay for the privledge and so support the association.
I know now that on the training courses that the person being trained has a sign that they will not use the Ncca name or logo unless they join and pay the membeship fee.
In my opinion the cost is far outweighed by the benefits.
Ray
so i'm a parasite am i, first time ive been called that on here. first time for everything i suppose. ;D
funny how we all have different definitions of a parasite. for me personally i would say a parasite is someone who has been a member of a forum for 6 years, hides all his details and has only posted 56 times. take take take without giving much back. apart from popping up to call names.
strange world innit.
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If someone has paid their 300 and odd pound for the course surely they should be able to say theyve been trained by the NCCA.
When I go to quote I sometimes show my NCCA course certificate - Is this wrong too?
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I think it's sour grapes with the NCCA and others who are members. If you were trained by the NCCA, you were trained by the NCCA - end of.
It should be so wonderful people see joining as a no brainer, but of course many don't once they are less green.
The NCCA need to offer people something that makes remaining a member worthwhile, it's a bit like us keeping OUR customers. ;)
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Hi Paul
Have been a member of the NCCA for a number off years.
Have been involved by going to AGM and also organizing a number of roadshows.
The cost is worth it as the referals we get pays for it and people say they choose us because we are members of the NCCA.
Their are a number of carpets cleaners who after being trained by them think that gives them the right to say of their adverts trained by the NCCA.
The NCCA ask that the term Trained by the NCCA is not used in adverts and links are not used to link their website to the NCCA website unless they are a member if everyone did that the NCCA would die and we would have no trade organization .
People who do that in my opinion are like parasites who use the NCCA but are not willing to pay for the privledge and so support the association.
I know now that on the training courses that the person being trained has a sign that they will not use the Ncca name or logo unless they join and pay the membeship fee.
In my opinion the cost is far outweighed by the benefits.
Ray
so i'm a parasite am i, first time ive been called that on here. first time for everything i suppose. ;D
funny how we all have different definitions of a parasite. for me personally i would say a parasite is someone who has been a member of a forum for 6 years, hides all his details and has only posted 56 times. take take take without giving much back. apart from popping up to call names.
strange world innit.
Derek
You told me you was a paraglider ;D ;D
THink theres some confusion
God im relaxed on me strongbow an it all gets personal
I blame the sun ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Guys
We get the Trade Association we deserve!
Cheers
Doug
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Hi Derek
At the time I could not think of a better word to use than parasite.
It was probaley not the best word to use so if you have take offence by it I would like to aploogize.
It cost 256.00 to join and I get that back and more besides it just annoyes me that others dont want to pay that smallish sum of money but still want some of the benefits.
The NCCA are not perfect and never will be but for our business they give us a lot of help.
Ray
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Hi Guys
We get the Trade Association we deserve!
Cheers
Doug
Yes Doug
If all the members pushed the association this could work.
IE, If i quote over the phone, and get ill call you back routine, I will finish with the advice of getting a NCCA approved cleaner, Because they have been trained to recignise carpet fibres, And the best way to clean to a recignised standard. THis is how members can push awerness
Paul
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yes i did get offended, it was rather a strong word, i appreciate where your coming from as a member but i honestly believe i am doing nothing wrong in promoting what i paid good money for.
like with paul in a previous post, we'll have to agree to disagree and forget the issue. apologies back at you for my return flack. it was brought out of frustration.
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Thank you Derek.
If everyone who was trained by the NCCA but who then decided not to join but still used the term Trained by the NCCA the NCCA would soon not exist they cannot rely on the money that comes in from training only.
Training is only a small part of what the NCCA do.
If they did not exist who would then train new ones then.
Ray
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I agree Ray
Derek i am sure knows what he is doing, This is his choice.
I will be joining after this debate. And i would use anything to my advantage that i am legally allowed to do.
If after a couple of years of paying,and get no return i would blattently advertise where i was trained, If this could help my business.
Wouldnt you?
Good luck to both
Paul
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i don't mean to sound like a teewat allthough it will come across like i am, but thats not really my problem, its one that the NCCA needs to get sorted, like as suggested, trainees must sign something to say they can't put trained in there marketing unless they become members, when i took the course this was not the case, and if it was the case then i wouldn't of trained and i doubt others would either so they have a bit of a quandry. (think thats the word i was looking for there) i was also trained by cleansmart, prochem and iicrc and i use this in my marketing too. really don't see why i shouldn't. i paid for the certificate and yet people are telling me if i don't join i should throw it in the bin and deny any link with who trained me. bizzarre in my eyes
its up to the NCCA to make it desirable to join rather than trying to alienate the likes of me with threats that i am doing something wrong.
they must have 2/3/4000 cleaners in there database, offer them a 50% discount and with money raised, plough it all into customer awareness, or promoting there website to get us more work. maybe then i'd give it ago.
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Derek
I take it the £250 to be approved is not worth it to your long term goals ?
Has things stand.
Paul
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We've tried a new organisation but that didn't work others didn't want it to work for some strange reason, the NCCA could have it all if they wanted how many times have we been here before? 1000 members could be achieved in no time at all but there has to be a carrot to draw experienced cleaners to the NCCA or even back into the NCCA at the moment it is just relying on training newcomers.
Shaun
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We've tried a new organisation but that didn't work others didn't want it to work for some strange reason, the NCCA could have it all if they wanted how many times have we been here before? 1000 members could be achieved in no time at all but there has to be a carrot to draw experienced cleaners to the NCCA or even back into the NCCA at the moment it is just relying on training newcomers.
Shaun
Shaun can the NCCA emblem be benificial to a newbie. And to joe public that the cleaner as had at least some training?
Paul
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Hi
Ask 10 people not associated with carpet cleaning what the NCCA stands for?
Then ask 10 what Corgi stands for, even thought they no longer exist.
I bet more have heard of corgi.
Dave
PS I am an Ncca member.
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Hi
Ask 10 people not associated with carpet cleaning what the NCCA stands for?
Then ask 10 what Corgi stands for, even thought they no longer exist.
I bet more have heard of corgi.
Dave
PS I am an Ncca member.
think it would be stalemate if everyone you asked were members of the royal family. ;D
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Hi
Woof Woof
Dave
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Hi
Woof Woof
Dave
David i am not far from you.
I have given recomedations to contact you to clients
with probs i cant sort, I have at the times said your the top man in the area, But come at a expensise.
Hope for the return one day. I dont operate in your market im cheepish
Paul
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Re Trained By
As far as I recall the NCCA course is not cheap
Do you only get certificate if you join
If you cannot use trained by the certificate is worthless.
I suggest the NCCA call their Training Schools by a different name.
Such as UK Academy of carpet and upholstery cleaning
If not people are not getting a good deal
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If the ncca want to improve and grow IMO they should allow carpet cleaners
who have done other training to join having done 3 days with derek bolton
at cleansmart I dont see why I am not allowed to take the exam and join.
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If you want the general public to ask for NCCA approved or member to clean their carpet I would be very surprised but if you were to say that you are a carpet cleaner and also a member of a professional body called the NCCA it would add to your sales pitch.
Shaun
PS As Frank Carson used to say, "it's how you tell em"
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i did the ncca course and although theory based was very good . i became a member but decided not to continue being a member as i did not see any benefit to my business.
if the ncca are so concerned with the term " trained by " why dont they make the course inclusive of the first years membership of say £500 quid. and then you pay monthly during the first year for the next . therefore a member would have to give a years notice to leave.
i personally think all that i have met involved in the ncca a top people paul powlo etc i just never could see any benefit to my business.
the only person who has ever asked me am i a member of the ncca is yell trying to get me in there advert. joe public has never heard of them because they dont give a monkeys and however many members there are it simply wont change
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For those that can not see what benefit their business will get by joining the NCCA...........
can I ask..... what benefits would you like to see for the £220 (or so) annual membership fee?
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I'm not a member but perfectly understand why for some people it's a good idea.
However if I had £200 spare and I wanted to turn it into £2000 in a short time I would get myself up to north wales and spend a day with Paul Moss, Dave l, and Dave Igram. They will even save you a couple of hundred in a week or two. The NCCA won't do that I'm pretty confident. ;)
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Joe for £220 I would join no problem but it is not £220 to join
as they are taking the pxxs by not recognising other basic training
providers yet allowing them to be associate members no doubt for
a payment
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The training is expensive and that's where they get a lot of money I believe that they need this money to continue, I think that something needs to be done to move things on.
It would be interesting to see some stats based on % new starters joining, % members of 10 years or more, % of cleaners who have been cleaning and then decided to join.
I believe the latter of the 3 will be the lowest by far, once you are a member you tend to stay in but the money gained is from new starts being trained £330 per delegate.
We've had these debates before I guess the best thing would be to ask the NCCA where their direction is?
Shaun
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What we need is for Derek to re-kindle TACCA and take over the world!!!!
I honestly couldn't give a rat's ar$e about being a member of a body that it isn't compulsory to be a member of in order to carry out my trade.
Being a SM franchisee I'm an affiliate member anyway, so I suppose some of my franchise fees goes towards that... don't know how it works to be honest and couldn't care less!!
I think that "publicly available standard" thing a couple of years ago was a step in the right direction, and who knows it might pave the way for a compulsory body like Gas Safe for plumbers. I'd happily pay for membership if the general public perceived that you were a cowboy if not a member.
So for the time being the status quo remains the same. And apathy reigns supreme in our trade, as always :)
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Paul
Thanks for reffering me, i have seen you advert in the local paper, the guy who was in hyde with the Blazer used to advertise in there, think hes packed it in now.
Dave
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If the ncca want to improve and grow IMO they should allow carpet cleaners
who have done other training to join having done 3 days with derek bolton
at cleansmart I dont see why I am not allowed to take the exam and join.
2 years ago I contacted NCCA with a view to joining.
I was more than happy to take the exam but didn't want to do the course before hand. (I've seen some of the muppets who have done this course and I like to think I'm way above what they have got). The answer was that you HAVE to do the course first. WHY exactly???
Does the course carry some marks towards the end exam like a GCSE split 60/40% To the best of my knowledge it doesn't.
Let people with experience just do the exam and they may well find that membership numbers increase.
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Neil
If you were allowed just to take the exam...... how much would you pay - just for the exam (joining fee extra)
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I am wondering how many people trained by Prochem , Ashbys, Solutions Restomate Amtex Cleansmart Extracta and Alltec would jin if they were allowed Obviosly an exam would be required plus proof of attending two days training .
Would this exceed revenue from NCCA training
Would training revenue dropped
Joe £30
Can you still pay monthly
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Neil
If you were allowed just to take the exam...... how much would you pay - just for the exam (joining fee extra)
£30
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£29
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The first course I did was in Manchester with Alan Gilligan who has sinced passed away.
Then did a 2 day prochem course when we bought a new machine in 2001.
We were then able to join the NCCA on the back of doing the Prochem course after passing a written exam from the NCCA.
This exam was a lot tougher than doing the multiple choice of the NCCA exam now.
The NCCA now will only except the IICRC course as a way to becomong a member of the NCCA.
Then I decided that we would do the NCCA course anyway and also took the exam which we did not need to as was already a member.
Then did the spot and stain course which I want to redo in the near future.
Also did the IICRC course at Hydramaster and took that exam which was the hardest course I have done.
Last year I redid did the NCCA course again with my daughter who has joined us in the business sh did the exam and passed.
The NCCA have a 1 to 1 rule where everyone in the business has to be trained that is why our daughter did the course.
So over the years I have done a number of the course and spent a lot of money most of the courses I did not need to do.
But I feel I have benefitted from them listening to an instructor who is passionate about our industry whether it be Paul Pearce or Steve Poulous and on every course I have been I have benefitted from and learned something new.
Ray
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ncca course is almost identical to the cleansmart course so why can't you do the ncca exam without the course ? maybe it is because no one would do the ncca course if that was the case i certainly would'nt have as i got a free course when i bought my airflex and if i was paying the cleansmart one is cheaper.
another reason may be that pav and paul as directors do not get paid but i think i am correct in saying they do get paid for instructing on the courses (as they should) but why would they allow you to get trained elsewhere if it was going to impact on the ncca revenue and their wages ?.
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Thats a name from the past raymondo..alan Gilligan as he used to sell machines too if am right ..
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Thet get paid for doing training ,but they would earm more if they went to work as they normally do
they give up their time because they are passionate about the business
Gary Bristowclean
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Ian £30
Neil £30
Derek £29 ;D
Maybe food for thought for the NCCA
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As C/C's, (individuals) we all push and pull in different directions. Until a compulsory governing body is born, these arguments, along with the NCCA, are pretty pointless.....
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Associate Member
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Ian £30
Neil £30
Derek £29 ;D
Maybe food for thought for the NCCA
Joe I think I am correct in saying if you have a current IIRC or what ever it is called in Carpet Cleaning , or Upholstery and you take exam in one you have not got it is Free
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Joe I think I am correct in saying if you have a current IIRC or what ever it is called in Carpet Cleaning , or Upholstery and you take exam in one you have not got it is Free
Ian - info on the ncca website
http://ncca.co.uk/joining_the_ncca.php
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quote from the site
If you have completed both Carpet and Upholstery Cleaning training through the IICRC you can then bypass the NCCA Course and Exam and join directly.
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and yet the other way round doesn't apply. madness on the directors part sheer madness.
IICRC "you can clean my carpets for free but if i clean yours i'll have to charge".
NCCA, "errrr okay sounds like a good deal" ;D ;D ;D
really don't understand the logic in that setup.
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I understand the quote from NCCA, Derek
but can you explain your bit please, dont understand
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The Course with the NCCA is over 2 days to cover carpets and upholstery.
But the course for the IICRC is over 4 days and you learn so much more overall the course is a lot tougher.
I have done the NCCA course 2 times now and the IICRC course only ones.
As the course and exam is harder with the IICRC then the NCCA except that as a means to become a member.
Ray
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I understand the quote from NCCA, Derek
but can you explain your bit please, dont understand
basically jo it means you scratch my back but i won't scratch yours so whoever negotiated that deal wants sacking, unless its paul then he's forgiven ;D
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Anyway decided to join and pay my couple of hundred quid.
I did enjoy the course and learnt things from it.
After reading the replys on here who call the NCCA. Only to use it in there marketing websites.
NCCA trained etc without using the logo
IF there is no value to the NCCA why advertise NCCA trained.
I would sooner pay me money and be a member for what it costs, rather than slag em off then use NCCA trained in my marketing ???
Paul
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Good choice Paul.
Now use the fact you are a current member of the NCCA to YOUR advantage.
"Sell" it to your customers in advertising, on your website, in your talking to them.
Use it as a unique selling point, like Simon uses the fact he has an all singing and dancing truckmount, or like someone wold if they only use environmentally friendly fluids, or the latest portable machine that out performs others etc. etc.
It does work.
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Anyway decided to join and pay my couple of hundred quid.
I did enjoy the course and learnt things from it.
After reading the replys on here who call the NCCA. Only to use it in there marketing websites.
NCCA trained etc without using the logo
IF there is no value to the NCCA why advertise NCCA trained.
I would sooner pay me money and be a member for what it costs, rather than slag em off then use NCCA trained in my marketing ???
Paul
This is my point exactly, but unfortunately some people will do anything to save a few quid, why try and start a new association when their is a well established one (the NCCA) already in place ???
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your just after an agruement paul, and i can't understand why, thought we were okay with each other.
gonna leave ya too it mate.
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your just after an agruement paul, and i can't understand why, thought we were okay with each other.
gonna leave ya too it mate.
Not after any argument Derek, Paul Evans posted this morning, as you must have read?
I have just seen it now and agree with him 100%, thats all, my thoughts are.... to make any association successful and work, everyone should be able to join it, so the ncca are doing nothing wrong, I think the ncca is and can be good for all genuine carpet cleaners, for the small price to be a member it is worth it.
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i did read pauls post but i decided ive given all my reasonings for why i aint joined and why i advertise as trained by, but theres only so many times you can put your own reasoning before you realise its falling on deaf ears.
as for slaggin the ncca off, not sure i have, all though its how you read it i suppose, i'd prefer to call it constructive critisism. but thats perception for ya.
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Like I said Derek, not after any argument with your good self or anyone else. Paul Evans did make a very good point, "if the ncca has no value" why would you or anyone advertise you are trained by them and include a link to the website?
All I am saying is:
Some customers could think you are a member when they visit the site from your link, even though I do understand that it actually means nothing and they wont get a better clean, but, big but, you are not doing the ncca and the 600 ish paying members any favours at all.
BTW imo the ncca are not doing anything wrong in allowing novices to the industry in joining because as I have said before, passing an exam and having the best and most powerful equipment doesnt always mean you would do the best job possible.
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Could you say it again Derek, i didn't hear you!!!! ;D