Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Nameless Drudge on June 22, 2011, 10:42:05 pm
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I`ve been reading this forum for nearly 4 years and plus, when i first joined, i read everything previous.
An unwritten rule of self regulation which displayed an admirable "esprit de corps"(thats a feeling of pride,fellowship and common loyalty shared by members of a particular group) has seemingly been dismissed judging by recent posters.
And thats the practice of not undercutting to gain customers.
Anyone recently sticking up for what was recently recognized as sound business practice is treated with contempt by the "masters of commerce".
Dress it up how you like but there is not a shred of the "feelgood factor" or common decency in it unless you are a complete........!
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I couldnt agree more Sean, I posted elsewhere that if the undercutting thread had been started seven or eight years ago when I started, there would have been widespread condamdation towards the purpretrators, not any more. Its a slippery slope, and utimately we're all gonna pay the price. :'(
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I know exactly what "esprit de corps" means, and I have been reading this forum for the same amount of time, and while I have made good friends I hope and folk to have general banter with, there has never been any "esprit de corps" on any forum what so ever.
I am also the son and youngest brother of probably 70 + years of window cleaning experience, and never did I fall for the stick together and charge what ever we want view, when I grew up I was involved in nothing but commercial and it was all about price and no worry's about undercutting,
I did kind of like the idea though that it wouldn't happen on domestic but I am a realist, and some window cleaners need to wake up to the fact they are running a business and the market dictates the prices not a stupid forum that I happened to be addicted to :'(
now if every single window cleaner happened to be addicted this forum well that would be great because we could set prices and everyone would happy ;D
that will never happen in a million years, so get over it, you are right in a way though, the unwritten rule is gone, because it was never there in the first place.
Sorry mate just thought I needed to say that, plus it had 50 odd views and not much interest ;D so I could be right or wrong :-\ just my view
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I know exactly what "esprit de corps" means, and I have been reading this forum for the same amount of time, and while I have made good friends I hope and folk to have general banter with, there has never been any "esprit de corps" on any forum what so ever.
I am also the son and youngest brother of probably 70 + years of window cleaning experience, and never did I fall for the stick together and charge what ever we want view, when I grew up I was involved in nothing but commercial and it was all about price and no worry's about undercutting,
I did kind of like the idea though that it wouldn't happen on domestic but I am a realist, and some window cleaners need to wake up to the fact they are running a business and the market dictates the prices not a stupid forum that I happened to be addicted to :'(
now if every single window cleaner happened to be addicted this forum well that would be great because we could set prices and everyone would happy ;D
that will never happen in a million years, so get over it, you are right in a way though, the unwritten rule is gone, because it was never there in the first place.
Sorry mate just thought I needed to say that, plus it had 50 odd views and not much interest ;D so I could be right or wrong :-\ just my view
You probably just want them overcharging southerners brought down a peg or two though if Cameron`s big society kicks in the window cleaning game might be overun by the bob-a-job army.
I`m out the door to the airport now(literally).
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there are some strange unwritten laws in this game.
so what is under cutting?
you get a call, you go to quote, its a £12 quid job, you do others the same for £12. the first thing the customer says is "i am being charged £18"
now this covers 3 unwritten laws
by charging your normal price you are undercutting
then you are nicking work form another shiner
and then you are on someones patch
so answer honestly would you
walk away and turn down the job
quote your normal price and take the job.
i think deliberate undercutting is a very slippery slope. i have seen it end up in a knife attack over the price of a cauliflower, but we are out to earn a living and we are not some masonic style secret society.
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There never was an unwritten rule, just less window cleaners.
But undercutting results in a race to the bottom which destroys it for everybody. It will happen though, more and more people chasing less and less work makes it inevetable.
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I know exactly what "esprit de corps" means, and I have been reading this forum for the same amount of time, and while I have made good friends I hope and folk to have general banter with, there has never been any "esprit de corps" on any forum what so ever.
I am also the son and youngest brother of probably 70 + years of window cleaning experience, and never did I fall for the stick together and charge what ever we want view, when I grew up I was involved in nothing but commercial and it was all about price and no worry's about undercutting,
I did kind of like the idea though that it wouldn't happen on domestic but I am a realist, and some window cleaners need to wake up to the fact they are running a business and the market dictates the prices not a stupid forum that I happened to be addicted to :'(
now if every single window cleaner happened to be addicted this forum well that would be great because we could set prices and everyone would happy ;D
that will never happen in a million years, so get over it, you are right in a way though, the unwritten rule is gone, because it was never there in the first place.
Sorry mate just thought I needed to say that, plus it had 50 odd views and not much interest ;D so I could be right or wrong :-\ just my view
You probably just want them overcharging southerners brought down a peg or two though if Cameron`s big society kicks in the window cleaning game might be overun by the bob-a-job army.
I`m out the door to the airport now(literally).
I laugh when I see this about us Southerners overcharging.....nah we are just better at selling our services to get the best price possible. :)
Must say your own opinion of Window Cleaning must be pretty low then, as per the comment made about bob a job army :)
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prices wont slide too far ,not in our lifetime anyway. once the c****s start advancing though price will drop like a stone ,but hey that wont be our worry will it
we havnt any oil so most likely they wont advance here ever , so our kids will be allrite if they start doing windows
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i think one of the reasons there are so many new wc is the fact that a lot get charged say £12 for there house, are there they 10 mins and the custy works it out at £12 x 6 houses ph is £72 ph and times that by 8 hours a day and we are making a fortune, a lot have brand new vans, big flash phones and going n holiday every other week, and the custy thinks i will have a bit of that, must be easy to do
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prices wont slide too far ,not in our lifetime anyway. once the c****s start advancing though price will drop like a stone ,but hey that wont be our worry will it
we havnt any oil so most likely they wont advance here ever , so our kids will be allrite if they start doing windows
I don't know about that, other industries have more or less imploded in a very short time due to price wars from which they can never recover. Once the downward spiral starts there is a virtual inevetablity about it.
And it doesn't have to be home grown. The building trade already has felt the effects of the Eastern European migrants. Whats going to happen about Greece? Are we soon to see Greek registered cars with ladders on the roof? Like we see polish and Lituanian ones round here.
And all those North Africans pouring into Italy, Italy is giving them European paperwork on condition they don't stay in Italy. Germany won't take them, even though they are "legal", France the same, so where do you think they are all going to end up??
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So if i get appproached by a customer and asked to quote, i then give my price of say 12.00 i dont ask if they have a window cleaner already but then latter i find out the sacked the last window cleaner he was charging 10.00 have i undercut him and is this classed as wrong. as i have done this a couple of times and window cleaners coming at me, lucky my mouths bigger than theres.
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as michael caine once sang"this is a self preservation society" business is business you have your bills to pay and family to feed you do what is right for your self not the "collective" (resistance is futile you will be assimilated)
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Wouldnt worry about it Woody. Apparently, if its the belief of one person on CIU its the way of the world for the 60,000 window cleaners in the UK, apparently ;)
These types of posts have been flying around on here for years. Last month there were the hose-pipe ban threads, remember, then there's the Poles coming to clear up the window-cleaning game in the UK (well there's less Poles here now than 3 years ago). The fly by nights, summer brigade, the 'gerrof my patch' crowd, undercutters, poachers, ladders are illegal, dodgy doorknockers they all have a role to play in the world of CIU. Lets face it window cleaning is the easiest game on the planet to get in to, despite all the problems, life threatening scenarios and dangerous times we have to deal with on a daily basis ;D
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Undercutting may bring in some new customers but do we really want to be busy fools or do people try to generate some value in what they do and the service provided.
Prices are always going to vary place to place due to local circumstance, as a newbie I read with interest some of the comments as it is part of my education 1 thing for sure though I could not do as good a job as you guys do day in day out.
You provide a reliable quality service and should charge an applicable rate for that service.
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perhaps it depends on how or why you started window cleaning,or perhaps us south lincs boys are just simple country folk who cant cope with the cut and thrust of full on capitalism ;D
i got into this business by accident,by meeting a window cleaner with a full round when i was on a night out at a time in my life when i hated my job.
He gave me a leg up and i got a start up round for less than half its monthly value,7 years later i have a well established round and a dozen mates who are also window cleaners,its not about secret societies or price fixing its about helping each other,passing on work,borrowing and lending tools and equpment if one of you has a problem
an example,about 5 years ago while i was still tradding one of my mates had to have a hernia operation and couldnt work for six weeks,while he was off four of us pitched in and did his round for him so he didnt get behind,we did four days a week on our rounds then all went out mob handed to do his work on fridays,he gave us all the cust address details and let em know we were coming,we just took the money for what we did and when he recovered he just went back to his round ;D
thats how i have worked for the last 7 years and i will continue to do so
some of my best friends are window cleaners :o
as for undercutting,2 reasons why i wont do it
1: its dumb business practice and does you no favours in the long run
2: its a C**** trick, for C**** !!!
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I agree with No 1 and 2 of the above
To knock someones door,ask them what they are being charged,then offer to undercut is wrong.
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So if i get appproached by a customer and asked to quote, i then give my price of say 12.00 i dont ask if they have a window cleaner already but then latter i find out the sacked the last window cleaner he was charging 10.00 have i undercut him and is this classed as wrong
No mate, thats the opposite of undercutting, you're charging more.
. as i have done this a couple of times and window cleaners coming at me, lucky my mouths bigger than theres.
ILet me guess how the conversation goes?.. Actually, no. Anyway what was on your butties today? I had ham and pickle !!!
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do i give a monkeys what other charge.NO
i charge what iam happy with and thats it,
unwritten rule what a load of old dog boxxocks.
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do i give a monkeys what other charge.NO
i charge what iam happy with and thats it,
unwritten rule what a load of old dog boxxocks.
you just said you charge what your happy with
if you go and quote for a house do you just give your price and walk away if customer says thats too dear??
or do you ask the customer how much he is paying his current window cleaner and then make your quote a couple of quid lower just to get the job,regardless of whether you think the price is too low?
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i charge my price and if they dont like it i dont clean it.simple
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same as me then ;D
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do i give a monkeys what other charge.NO
i charge what iam happy with and thats it,
unwritten rule what a load of old dog boxxocks.
you just said you charge what your happy with
if you go and quote for a house do you just give your price and walk away if customer says thats too dear??
or do you ask the customer how much he is paying his current window cleaner and then make your quote a couple of quid lower just to get the job,regardless of whether you think the price is too low?
thers where undercutting comes in. i never ask if they have a window cleaner and why do you need to ask a customer how much he is paying. i give my price thats it end of story.
if i am cheaper never mind
i dont care if they have a shiner, if the customer is happy they wont change.
ok heres another senario. you in a shop and you hear them chatting about the window cleaner they have. they say the price and you think thats dear i could do it for less.. would you introduce yourself
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Wouldnt worry about it Woody. Apparently, if its the belief of one person on CIU its the way of the world for the 60,000 window cleaners in the UK, apparently ;)
These types of posts have been flying around on here for years. Last month there were the hose-pipe ban threads, remember, then there's the Poles coming to clear up the window-cleaning game in the UK (well there's less Poles here now than 3 years ago).
Agreed. There was loads of whining when the Kosovans were all over the shop; SSWC was frightened 'cos he thought they'd be quicker than him - sponge and squeegy in hand - at the traffic lights for the race to the car windscreens.
Funnily enough, the two biggest things to change window cleaning in the UK are the internet and the WFP. If there's more window cleaners now than 10 years ago, it's due to those two factors.
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do i give a monkeys what other charge.NO
i charge what iam happy with and thats it,
unwritten rule what a load of old dog boxxocks.
you just said you charge what your happy with
if you go and quote for a house do you just give your price and walk away if customer says thats too dear??
or do you ask the customer how much he is paying his current window cleaner and then make your quote a couple of quid lower just to get the job,regardless of whether you think the price is too low?
thers where undercutting comes in. i never ask if they have a window cleaner and why do you need to ask a customer how much he is paying. i give my price thats it end of story.
if i am cheaper never mind
i dont care if they have a shiner, if the customer is happy they wont change.
ok heres another senario. you in a shop and you hear them chatting about the window cleaner they have. they say the price and you think thats dear i could do it for less.. would you introduce yourself
I did this week :o So shoot me
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i have done it before and would do it again.
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do i give a monkeys what other charge.NO
i charge what iam happy with and thats it,
unwritten rule what a load of old dog boxxocks.
you just said you charge what your happy with
if you go and quote for a house do you just give your price and walk away if customer says thats too dear??
or do you ask the customer how much he is paying his current window cleaner and then make your quote a couple of quid lower just to get the job,regardless of whether you think the price is too low?
thers where undercutting comes in. i never ask if they have a window cleaner and why do you need to ask a customer how much he is paying. i give my price thats it end of story.
if i am cheaper never mind
i dont care if they have a shiner, if the customer is happy they wont change.
ok heres another senario. you in a shop and you hear them chatting about the window cleaner they have. they say the price and you think thats dear i could do it for less.. would you introduce yourself
i dont really get your point you seem to think i condone undercutting
i dont
i never ask new quotes what they paying
i just give my price
as for your scenario
i cant give a subjective answer as i have a very full round and tend to pick and choose new work
if i was new and desperate....who knows .....depends on if it was a real p take or just a couple of quid..
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do i give a monkeys what other charge.NO
i charge what iam happy with and thats it,
unwritten rule what a load of old dog boxxocks.
you just said you charge what your happy with
if you go and quote for a house do you just give your price and walk away if customer says thats too dear??
or do you ask the customer how much he is paying his current window cleaner and then make your quote a couple of quid lower just to get the job,regardless of whether you think the price is too low?
thers where undercutting comes in. i never ask if they have a window cleaner and why do you need to ask a customer how much he is paying. i give my price thats it end of story.
if i am cheaper never mind
i dont care if they have a shiner, if the customer is happy they wont change.
ok heres another senario. you in a shop and you hear them chatting about the window cleaner they have. they say the price and you think thats dear i could do it for less.. would you introduce yourself
I did this week :o So shoot me
And the rest of us who get an invite to quote for commercial !!!
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Wouldnt worry about it Woody. Apparently, if its the belief of one person on CIU its the way of the world for the 60,000 window cleaners in the UK, apparently ;)
These types of posts have been flying around on here for years. Last month there were the hose-pipe ban threads, remember, then there's the Poles coming to clear up the window-cleaning game in the UK (well there's less Poles here now than 3 years ago). The fly by nights, summer brigade, the 'gerrof my patch' crowd, undercutters, poachers, ladders are illegal, dodgy doorknockers they all have a role to play in the world of CIU. Lets face it window cleaning is the easiest game on the planet to get in to, despite all the problems, life threatening scenarios and dangerous times we have to deal with on a daily basis ;D
Well said matt ;D ;D
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An unwritten rule of self regulation which displayed an admirable "esprit de corps"(thats a feeling of pride,fellowship and common loyalty shared by members of a particular group) has seemingly been dismissed judging by recent posters.
Thats the downside of the internet, its full of internet window cleaners !!! And its just not like when you started on the internet. Sod them, no, hang on, thats what you're saying they're saying !!! Ah, bollox !!!!