Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sean Dyer on June 21, 2011, 05:45:41 pm
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That is the question!
I have been using my system without one, but finding i am out of water FAST although have usually earned ok, but it means i cant carry on without filling up which is difficult as i work 20 miles from home mostly
I was looking through some posts on another site and found this
Re: digital varistream promblem
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 05:51:54 PM »
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The best use for a varistream is a door stop. Failing that flog it some other idiot.
Varistreams are the most utterly Pointless and useless gadget for WFP.
The basics of WFP are:
Activate dirt into water with brush,
Rinse dirty water off leaving pure water to evaporate naturally.
So who in their right mind wants to slow the flow down and stand there longer rinsing???
The faster you can do this process the faster you can work and earn more.
Obviously a few dimwads do But simply follow these directions to for trouble free pump working for years to come.
Connect pole and turn on pump,
Undo pressure switch adjuster gradually until pump stops,
gently turn screw back in until pump starts again.
This will set the pressure switch to stop the pump a few seconds after disconnecting the pole and provide trouble free operation for years. I know i have been for the last 6 years.
No more varistream junk to waste time and money on. I find it hilarious that guys struggle on with varistream problems when just get rid of it is the best option.
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Can anyone explain the pressure adjusting bit? my pump cuts out when i turn tap off at end hose already??
And do you think i should get a controller or not??
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You will use a lot less water with a varistream or similar
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If it cuts off after stopping flow already just leave it as it is sean, you only need to adjust if it running on to long or cutting in and out, if it is ok just leave it as it is.
I also agree with that post you quoted, as you have found, sure you run out of water quicker but you do the work in less time
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Im just worried when it comes to changing over alot of work that i will only get very little earned :(
Might have to change over in stages and do some ladder work on the first few times to keep £££ earned
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Just get a flow controller! Some jobs you may want a fast flow, some jobs you may want a slower flow. On real leaded windows, which leak, I prefer a slower flow, for example.
It protects both the pump and the battery life, and it's just a lot nicer to use.
As for rinsing, there logically must be an optimum flow rate, and anything above that is just a waste of water.
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On the real lead that you talk about tosh i have used my pump on full blast , i just did them quick
Water will find its way in fast or slow, in fact doing it slowly is just as bad!
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There are MANY who don't actually understand how a varistream works. They hook it up & because it doesn't do what they think it should in five minutes rip it back out & slate it! I've read it many times & when you offer advice & dig a little deeper it becomes obvious that the user hasn't a clue what it's for or how it should even work!
My advice, get one, it's got to be one of the very best pieces of kit I have ever bought! I used a bypass system system before that & I've now been using the varistream for about 3+ years & it's never missed a beat! You'll use less water, you'll have a constant & reliable pre-set flow rate regardless of height being worked, uses less battery power, I could not work without one now.
I would advise you buy it as kit with shurflo pump, connectors & strainer. I would also use 8mm hose instead of 6mm.
Hope that helps. ;)
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got a pump strainer etc and using 8mm
Will probably get one and use it on high becuase as you say at least it will still save some water and battery
However when taking the pressure switch off teh pump to connect it, and then using the controller, if i turn the tap off will the pump still cut out once the pressure builds in the system??
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no way!
We have took our varistreams off, too slow to start between windows. With the pump going full speed and all poles on triggers we only go through 1300ltrs a day (2 vans, 4 men), we start between 5 and 8 each morning and finish between 1 and 4.
Max flow, less time on each job = approx same vol of water used.
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Yes, Sean, the pump cuts off with the flow controller when it reaches the required pressure.
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no way!
We have took our varistreams off, too slow to start between windows. With the pump going full speed and all poles on triggers we only go through 1300ltrs a day (2 vans, 4 men), we start between 5 and 8 each morning and finish between 1 and 4.
Max flow, less time on each job = approx same vol of water used.
Perfect example! ;D
My flow starts IMMEDIATELY as soon as I turn the tap back on! ;)
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There are MANY who don't actually understand how a varistream works. They hook it up & because it doesn't do what they think it should in five minutes rip it back out & slate it! I've read it many times & when you offer advice & dig a little deeper it becomes obvious that the user hasn't a clue what it's for or how it should even work!
My advice, get one, it's got to be one of the very best pieces of kit I have ever bought! I used a bypass system system before that & I've now been using the varistream for about 3+ years & it's never missed a beat! You'll use less water, you'll have a constant & reliable pre-set flow rate regardless of height being worked, uses less battery power, I could not work without one now.
I would advise you buy it as kit with shurflo pump, connectors & strainer. I would also use 8mm hose instead of 6mm.
Hope that helps. ;)
not at all, I used mine for months, I know what works for me and like alan I think it is the way to go, however experience of forums tells me 99% of members will not agree, that is fair and it is up to members to find what suits them ;)
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I think it comes down to how much water you can carry - personally I cannot understand anyone trying to scrimp on water - small tank? get a bigger tank.
but there's simply no way anyone using a low flow (less than 2ltr/min) can keep up with a high flow - its simple, we flood each pane with water, next to no scrubbing, easy
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Max flow, less time on each job = approx same vol of water used.
But common sense tells me that there is an optimum flow rate which ensures you can work quickly without overkill.
For example, if you had a flow rate of 20 litres per minute (obviously a gross exaggeration; but I'm reductio ad absurdum (reducing the argument to absurdity), then that would be no more effective than say 10 litres per minute.
My point is, there is an optimum flow rate, where anything over is overkill and a waste.
I haven't measured what the optimum flow rate is, but I have a pretty good idea of what it is on my flow controller, and it's not full blast.
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Max flow, less time on each job = approx same vol of water used.
But common sense tells me that there is an optimum flow rate which ensures you can work quickly without overkill.
For example, if you had a flow rate of 20 litres per minute (obviously a gross exaggeration; but I'm reductio ad absurdum (reducing the argument to absurdity), then that would be no more effective than say 10 litres per minute.
My point is, there is an optimum flow rate, where anything over is overkill and a waste.
I haven't measured what the optimum flow rate is, but I have a pretty good idea of what it is on my flow controller, and it's not full blast.
Absolutely spot on Tosh.
For me it's nothing to do with saving water, I'm DI only, in Scotland (no water meters) & so have the option to fill up anywhere when needs be.
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Yes tosh
I am a believer in not using a dribble of water yet i notice that when no varistream its almost splashing back off. and its just too much
I would like a way of slowing it down a bit, but still have a high flow rate!
I have a 500 litre tank so saving water isnt a major issue, but still at full belt it can be gone in no time, ie the pump is 5 litre a minute with no control which is 100 mins , whereas at 2.5 ltr-3 i reckon itd be just as fast but saving enough water to get a longer day in???
Thats what im wondering
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Yes tosh
I am a believer in not using a dribble of water yet i notice that when no varistream its almost splashing back off. and its just too much
I would like a way of slowing it down a bit, but still have a high flow rate!
I have a 500 litre tank so saving water isnt a major issue, but still at full belt it can be gone in no time, ie the pump is 5 litre a minute with no control which is 100 mins , whereas at 2.5 ltr-3 i reckon itd be just as fast but saving enough water to get a longer day in???
Thats what im wondering
I agree, also you'll not be causing extra "unnecessary" ice hazards in winter too! ;)
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pumps are rated at open flow - ie no back pressure.
the pump has to push the water through the hose which creates back pressure, the faster the flow, the more back pressure which reduces the flow rate.
with no flow controller I reckon our pumps run around 3.5 ltr/min - which I believe is close to optimum, maybe a little more flow would help but I'm pretty pleased with it.
tosh - believe me mate, I was right about the self priming spray for the floor of the van (which probably saved you half a days work), now just trust me on this one. Test it out for yourself.
winpo - ICE hazards? seriously even the slowest trickle will create a hazard in winter - we just throw a handful of ice melt down round each job in winter.
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That is the question!
I have been using my system without one, but finding i am out of water FAST although have usually earned ok, but it means i cant carry on without filling up which is difficult as i work 20 miles from home mostly
I was looking through some posts on another site and found this
Re: digital varistream promblem
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 05:51:54 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The best use for a varistream is a door stop. Failing that flog it some other idiot.
Varistreams are the most utterly Pointless and useless gadget for WFP.
The basics of WFP are:
Activate dirt into water with brush,
Rinse dirty water off leaving pure water to evaporate naturally.
So who in their right mind wants to slow the flow down and stand there longer rinsing???
The faster you can do this process the faster you can work and earn more.
Obviously a few dimwads do But simply follow these directions to for trouble free pump working for years to come.
Connect pole and turn on pump,
Undo pressure switch adjuster gradually until pump stops,
gently turn screw back in until pump starts again.
This will set the pressure switch to stop the pump a few seconds after disconnecting the pole and provide trouble free operation for years. I know i have been for the last 6 years.
No more varistream junk to waste time and money on. I find it hilarious that guys struggle on with varistream problems when just get rid of it is the best option.
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Can anyone explain the pressure adjusting bit? my pump cuts out when i turn tap off at end hose already??
And do you think i should get a controller or not??
This may help
if the pump is cycling but at full speed (Varistream has no variable control) then the pump is hitting the pressure switch.
If the unit still has variable control (you can turn the pump rate up and down with the Varistream) then try turning the flowrate on the Varistream down. If the cycling stops then the dead end detection is incorrectly set and needs to be adjusted.
If the cycling does not stop even when the flowrate is turned down low, then it sounds like there may be a problem with the Varistream.
In general we believe the Varistream is designed to work with 5l/min pumps. The dead end detection is simplistic and has very little adjustment when driving a pump outside of this range :)
As for the Controller V no controller It has to come down to individual choice as a general rule a pump controller will help to
1) reduce water use so more jobs in a day
2) reduce wear and tear on the Pump and Battery
3) controlled water flow to suit each set of circumstances
That said it has to be about what suits you.
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There are MANY who don't actually understand how a varistream works. They hook it up & because it doesn't do what they think it should in five minutes rip it back out & slate it! I've read it many times & when you offer advice & dig a little deeper it becomes obvious that the user hasn't a clue what it's for or how it should even work!
My advice, get one, it's got to be one of the very best pieces of kit I have ever bought! I used a bypass system system before that & I've now been using the varistream for about 3+ years & it's never missed a beat! You'll use less water, you'll have a constant & reliable pre-set flow rate regardless of height being worked, uses less battery power, I could not work without one now.
I would advise you buy it as kit with shurflo pump, connectors & strainer. I would also use 8mm hose instead of 6mm.
Hope that helps. ;)
This is funny because I've never used one yet ;D . I just have a return to tank setup for surplus water. I'm not saying it's better. It's just the way my system was set up and I've never changed it. I do have a 800 litre tank in the back though so maybe that's why I don't look so hard at water usage.
Maybe a Varistream would improve my system but it's a case, for me of, it's not broken so don't fix it.
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There are MANY who don't actually understand how a varistream works. They hook it up & because it doesn't do what they think it should in five minutes rip it back out & slate it! I've read it many times & when you offer advice & dig a little deeper it becomes obvious that the user hasn't a clue what it's for or how it should even work!
My advice, get one, it's got to be one of the very best pieces of kit I have ever bought! I used a bypass system system before that & I've now been using the varistream for about 3+ years & it's never missed a beat! You'll use less water, you'll have a constant & reliable pre-set flow rate regardless of height being worked, uses less battery power, I could not work without one now.
I would advise you buy it as kit with shurflo pump, connectors & strainer. I would also use 8mm hose instead of 6mm.
Hope that helps. ;)
This is funny because I've never used one yet ;D . I just have a return to tank setup for surplus water. I'm not saying it's better. It's just the way my system was set up and I've never changed it. I do have a 800 litre tank in the back though so maybe that's why I don't look so hard at water usage.
Maybe a Varistream would improve my system but it's a case, for me of, it's not broken so don't fix it.
When I used the baypass like you Paul I also didn't think I had a problem. In fact the varistream was kind of forced on to me as Cleantech had a ready made pump box in stock with one on when my own pump broke. I never realised just how much better using one would be. Doesn't matter if you're working at 50ft or ground level, the flow remains the same without you touching anything. The pump only runs at the speed you set the flow at, not flat out all the time like on the bypass, meaning much less battery power consumed. No messing with levers/taps etc & running back to the van to change the flow, just press the button & away you go. ;)
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but surely even the most basic van mount will have a split relay so your battery is getting charged all the time!
perfect example today - myself and big g working today - same run as last month, work finished by 3.20pm as opposed to 4.10 last month (when we were using Varistreams) and although we used approx 50ltrs more, we got the same work done so therefore the same money plus home almost an hour earlier than expected.
added bonus is its just nicer to work with a high flow, brush floats better too.
would you use a manual screwdriver or a cordless to screw in, err, umm, lots of screws.
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surely using the varistream on full is just as good but is still controlling it??
Did you not like using them on full alan?
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I have a varistream analogue and a liquid logic both running on 9 litre flojet pumps. Both work well, the varistream does have a habit of going to sleep if not used in a couple of minutes, you almost need to wake it up by turning the tap on just before you extend the pole if you hadn't worked it recently.
All in all I've used my pumps with no flow control and 9 litres a minute is too much, it comes out of the hose about 5. I'm pretty fast but I can't keep up with that, I think the splash of the ledges causes more mess than you clean up.
Simon.
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I used it on full which gave me enough flow but the 4 or 5 seconds lag each time the system pressurised was a right pain.
As soon as I pull the trigger now its instant, much better - as for the varistream saving battery life, not if its on full flow - 9.2A draw, no varistream - 7.7A
Simon - I think you're right - as I previously said I reckon the ideal flow rate (to avoid wastage - why anyone would care I don't know) is about 4lpm.
But as some of you are so pedantic about saving water, to the point of working with a dribble I see no point in posting on this subject anymore.
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Im taking it to heart mate, i appreciate it
So if i just carry on with my pump wired straight to battery do i need any thing else or will it do as it is? Ie should i have a trigger or aqua dapter or something
TBH i am happy with the flow rate as it is because it is quicker, but i was just worried it was bad for the pump, or that i was over using water , but might just start carrying a few barrells to fill up another 100l when necesary
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yeah we use triggers, like I said we use quite a bit of water but we work long days - and pretty fast at that.
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There are MANY who don't actually understand how a varistream works. They hook it up & because it doesn't do what they think it should in five minutes rip it back out & slate it! I've read it many times & when you offer advice & dig a little deeper it becomes obvious that the user hasn't a clue what it's for or how it should even work!
My advice, get one, it's got to be one of the very best pieces of kit I have ever bought! I used a bypass system system before that & I've now been using the varistream for about 3+ years & it's never missed a beat! You'll use less water, you'll have a constant & reliable pre-set flow rate regardless of height being worked, uses less battery power, I could not work without one now.
I would advise you buy it as kit with shurflo pump, connectors & strainer. I would also use 8mm hose instead of 6mm.
Hope that helps. ;)
This is funny because I've never used one yet ;D . I just have a return to tank setup for surplus water. I'm not saying it's better. It's just the way my system was set up and I've never changed it. I do have a 800 litre tank in the back though so maybe that's why I don't look so hard at water usage.
Maybe a Varistream would improve my system but it's a case, for me of, it's not broken so don't fix it.
When I used the baypass like you Paul I also didn't think I had a problem. In fact the varistream was kind of forced on to me as Cleantech had a ready made pump box in stock with one on when my own pump broke. I never realised just how much better using one would be. Doesn't matter if you're working at 50ft or ground level, the flow remains the same without you touching anything. The pump only runs at the speed you set the flow at, not flat out all the time like on the bypass, meaning much less battery power consumed. No messing with levers/taps etc & running back to the van to change the flow, just press the button & away you go. ;)
I do have the flow on a constant rate with the "return to tank" tap. I change flow rate at the end of the microbore. Sometimes it's useful to be able to drop the flow rate on the fly for the odd window above a path or by a front door.
I really can't say one is better than another though as I've only done it one way.
I do have a large tank and a split charge relay though so they probably allow me to get away without a Varistream. Also I'm quite a simple soul and it's one less thing to go wrong.
I swap batteries over fairly regularly too as although a split charge is OK, when I go through a phase of doing larger jobs, I find I occasionally need to run the engine while working (preferably while having a break in the van for security reasons).
I don't rule out a Varistream for the future but I can't see me changing things while I have this van. Maybe my next setup will include one.
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I've been using a Varistream for many years now. Being an 'oldie' I can have the flow adjusted to suit my energy levels - usually around 2 litres per minute. Any faster than that and I can't keep up with it and get through the water too fast. Never had one call back or complain regardinf spotting either.
So... if you can work with a high flow rate all day then there is no advantage in a Varistream or equivalent but for the non-super humans amongst us a Varistream is a godsend.
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I've been using a Varistream for many years now. Being an 'oldie' I can have the flow adjusted to suit my energy levels - usually around 2 litres per minute. Any faster than that and I can't keep up with it and get through the water too fast. Never had one call back or complain regardinf spotting either.
So... if you can work with a high flow rate all day then there is no advantage in a Varistream or equivalent but for the non-super humans amongst us a Varistream is a godsend.
It's not necessary to work with high flow rate if the surplus is returned to tank. OK it is a high flow but it's not all coming out of the jets is what I mean :)
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I've been using a Varistream for many years now. Being an 'oldie' I can have the flow adjusted to suit my energy levels - usually around 2 litres per minute. Any faster than that and I can't keep up with it and get through the water too fast. Never had one call back or complain regardinf spotting either.
So... if you can work with a high flow rate all day then there is no advantage in a Varistream or equivalent but for the non-super humans amongst us a Varistream is a godsend.
It's not necessary to work with high flow rate if the surplus is returned to tank. OK it is a high flow but it's not all coming out of the jets is what I mean :)
Hi Paul,
My post wasn't aimed specifically at your post - you posted while I was still typing (very slowly) ;D. The other advantage for me with a Varistream is that the pump is only working as hard as the flow I require rather than flat out. I'm not sure about the life of a Shurflo 100 psi but mine is many years old and appears to be still functioning as new ( I bet I regret typing that).
John
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Just to update
I have started using my clx 22 today(which is awesome as a side note)
However the pole hose is alot shorter than i had previously as i went from a back pack to van mount so i had a very long pole hose so i didnt have to move back pack
This must have been controlling the pressure as when i plugged in clx , the water was absolutely flying out, ten metres easy it would hit , and when rinsing all i could see was a cloud of spray !
Not good.
Controller is the only way with that kind of pressure
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Just to update
I have started using my clx 22 today(which is awesome as a side note)
However the pole hose is alot shorter than i had previously as i went from a back pack to van mount so i had a very long pole hose so i didnt have to move back pack
This must have been controlling the pressure as when i plugged in clx , the water was absolutely flying out, ten metres easy it would hit , and when rinsing all i could see was a cloud of spray !
Not good.
Controller is the only way with that kind of pressure
Ah, you see sense at last! ;D
However, you could just let the water bounce off the glass, according to Alan- you'll be a lot faster that way! In fact, at ten meters you wouldn't even have to go up the drive- just drive along the road & point your pole in the right direction, Bob's you're uncle! 8)
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Im not doubting that alans set up is right for him and is the best way for him to make his money
But there is no way i can work with the speed its coming out of my pole, it is ridiculous, so abit of control will be good hopefully
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Just to update
I have started using my clx 22 today(which is awesome as a side note)
However the pole hose is alot shorter than i had previously as i went from a back pack to van mount so i had a very long pole hose so i didnt have to move back pack
This must have been controlling the pressure as when i plugged in clx , the water was absolutely flying out, ten metres easy it would hit , and when rinsing all i could see was a cloud of spray !
Not good.
Controller is the only way with that kind of pressure
This is where the difference for non varistream users will be.
If you use 6mm hose it will come out slower than 8mm hose. The more hose it has to travel through the slower the rate due to 'back pressure'
Without knowing the exact setup of each post pump hose configuration it is difficult to assess the merits or otherwise of non-varistream v's varistream.
I have 2 systems, one in a van ane in a trailer and the varistream is set at different levels on each for the same flow.
It frustrates me to use a 'dribble' and is slower to use, however full rate with wide hose is simply too fast and splashes everywhere.
Where the varistream really helps is when different hose lenghts and sizes are used as you can adjust to suit.
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Just to update
I have started using my clx 22 today(which is awesome as a side note)
However the pole hose is alot shorter than i had previously as i went from a back pack to van mount so i had a very long pole hose so i didnt have to move back pack
This must have been controlling the pressure as when i plugged in clx , the water was absolutely flying out, ten metres easy it would hit , and when rinsing all i could see was a cloud of spray !
Not good.
Controller is the only way with that kind of pressure
What hose on the reel are you using?
You can create back presure and slow down the flow by having longer and narrower hose.
This will however put a bit more pressure on your pump.
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sunshine is right - I should have mentioned I am using 6mm microbore, approx 90mtrs on each reel. One pump per reel.
the water doesn't bounce off the glass (using standard gardiners pencil jets), we rinse on the glass.
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8mm and a very small length of gardiners pole hose 5mm i think
Its very fast
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Yes I use 6mm as well and it is fine without a controller, maybe I would think differently if I was using 8mm.
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you see - Stu and I know the score!
Good man Stu
even if you are a hibs man