Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: combat1 on June 11, 2011, 01:37:09 pm
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I start around 8.30 and finish around 4, working wfp backpack on upper windows and trad downstairs, all 3 or 4 bed houses usually on same site although sometimes a move is involved.
The prices are an average of £10 per house.
The thing is i'm doing between 10 - 13 houses a day.
So income is between 100 -130 a day.
Looking at the numerous posts I reckon i'm well behind most in earnings per day.
and realistically i need to earn around 150 per day.
Contributing factors are i'm 60 and do sills door frames etc , garage doors.
I know if i was replying i'd put work faster but i dont seem to be dawdling.
so where am i going wrong?
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u aint doing any thing wrong, dont listen to what the earnings are on here, if you want to go quicker , wfp the bottoms as well
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Where you are going wrong is,
Using backpack... Get a van mount
Trading bottom.... Get a van mount
Charging £10 for a 4 bed house and cleaning the garage doors ..... Put your price up
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Your average price is quite low at £10.
Perosnally I would start wfp downstairs to hurry things along.
Do you include garage doors in your price?
If so, with new customers, get your windows price and add £3.00 per single garage door, or £6.00 per double garage door. So if windows are £12.00, and there is a double garage door, you just say to the potential custie all windows frames, house doors and garage doors will be £18.00, If they then hesitate about the price, you can then offer " well that does includes the garage door, so if I don't clean that for you I can do it for £14 and once every 3 months I can clean the garage door off for you free of charge" :)
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£3 for a garage door?
They take seconds... Suppose its worth it if you can get away with it
I was out canvassing yesterday and was telling people i clean all frames and sills, glass, and doors each visit
It really impressed people and i think there might be a few miffed trad cleaners knocking about but that aint my problem, plus ive realized just how much custys hate there frames looking minging after windows have been done!
Just as an idea houses i was charging say £10 - 12 for now i can easily get 15-20 just for doing frames and doors, which probably takes the same time with wfp as it did to do the house trad
So its extra £5-6 every time so its great
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prices are low if there mainly 4 bedroom houses or biggish 3 bedders.
backpack must be a pain having to fill up all the time and lugging it about wasting time.
unless im charging a good price garage doors do not get cleaned unless requested for an additional charge.
some garage doors will take 5-10 mins to clean if there double garages are full of grit from a nearby gutter.
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Hi Combat1
I'm the same age as you and I can't do 1 house with a back pack, so how you manage the number you do is beyond me. I find the weight of the packback seems to cut blood circulation to my arms and my head starts to go light and buzzy.
I would also advise a van mount as hose management is less energy zapping. I would probably try a sack truck to start with to put your backpack on.
Also remember we aren't as fit as we were 15 years ago.
Spruce
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if they are all near by you should really be doing 3 houses per hour maybe 4,obviously if they are stretched out and have to drive 5 to 10 mins to each ones,i can understand where your losing time.
i cleaned 12 all over £10 each on friday on the same estate in 3 hours!
I wouldn't bother trading.Nothing wrong with backpacks!If you are losing time due to a backpack it would be very little per house,perhaps 2 or 3 mins at most!
Do you have a hose extension on your backpack,so you don't need to keep moving the backpack?
I have 10 metres on mine so i can leave the backpack and do the front in one go and the same around the back!.
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ok thanks very much everyone, to be honest I was expecting a bit of flak!
The comments on the van mount are so right, the history is that I became full time after many years of part time taking voluntary redundancy.
So i had enough money to buy a van and unit, the problem being that my partner will not entertain me having a van, even though she has a new saloon.
we wont go into that one but i ended up with an astra estate!
wfping the whole house would be much faster if i could carry enough water. on the occassional one i have done complete its been much quicker and easier.
I do have a hose extension on the backpack, i bought orange hose from ionics which dosent kink and allows me to park the backpack and do so much more without moving it.
A good tip is you can deliberately kink the hose when moving between windows and save water, it dosent damage the hose at all.
Prices are going to rise, all my new houses are on at £12 and i.m going to increase the existing customers, my fault i've never increased them!
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looking at this it's easy to say you need to raise your prices and only you know what your 'market' will bare.
A tank in the vech would be good...perhaps a 12v bilge pump to 'reload' the backpack or trolley. Perhaps get a pump box and 100 meters of hose...no need to spend a fortune.
I would in all honesty try to do wfp ups and downs and I imagine you could save some time and possibly get a few mores custys per day which would give you some more earning power.
Many people on here will earn 30+ per hour many will earn 10 per hour it's upto you who you believe ... it's what you need to earn thats important not what Billy Whizz 'Splash & Dash earns.
And to put it into perspective...Your doing nothing wrong! IMHO.
Good luck
Dave.
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ok thanks very much everyone, to be honest I was expecting a bit of flak!
The comments on the van mount are so right, the history is that I became full time after many years of part time taking voluntary redundancy.
So i had enough money to buy a van and unit, the problem being that my partner will not entertain me having a van, even though she has a new saloon.
we wont go into that one but i ended up with an astra estate!
wfping the whole house would be much faster if i could carry enough water. on the occassional one i have done complete its been much quicker and easier.
I do have a hose extension on the backpack, i bought orange hose from ionics which dosent kink and allows me to park the backpack and do so much more without moving it.
A good tip is you can deliberately kink the hose when moving between windows and save water, it dosent damage the hose at all.
Prices are going to rise, all my new houses are on at £12 and i.m going to increase the existing customers, my fault i've never increased them!
I don't understand this one. Window cleaning is your livelyhood and you need the equipment to do that job. Most of us work from home to save outgoing costs.
An Astra Estate isn't the most friendly WFP vehicle IMHO.
Spruce
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sorry to go against everyone.............but whats wrong with his prices,seem reasonable to me.
prices are set more by geography then anything else.
we have a second van covering the widnes area and im not kidding when i say that they are cleaning houses,5 bed with conservatorys for £7/8 pound,why because there are that many w/c that the "market" as set the price
imo i think £10.00 for a three bed semi is about a right,give or take
if combat works 4 days at £130.00 thats £520.00 for a 4 day week is that not a good wage ???
combat if your happy,whats the problem ???
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sorry to go against everyone.............but whats wrong with his prices,seem reasonable to me.
prices are set more by geography then anything else.
we have a second van covering the widnes area and im not kidding when i say that they are cleaning houses,5 bed with conservatorys for £7/8 pound,why because there are that many w/c that the "market" as set the price
imo i think £10.00 for a three bed semi is about a right,give or take
if combat works 4 days at £130.00 thats £520.00 for a 4 day week is that not a good wage ???
combat if your happy,whats the problem ???
+1
John.
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sorry to go against everyone.............but whats wrong with his prices,seem reasonable to me.
prices are set more by geography then anything else.
we have a second van covering the widnes area and im not kidding when i say that they are cleaning houses,5 bed with conservatorys for £7/8 pound,why because there are that many w/c that the "market" as set the price
imo i think £10.00 for a three bed semi is about a right,give or take
if combat works 4 days at £130.00 thats £520.00 for a 4 day week is that not a good wage ???
combat if your happy,whats the problem ???
£520 isn't his wage though. It's business turnover. Quite a bit can come out of that before you get to a wage ad een then tax and NI will eat into it. It souinds like he runs his business more economically than most but even so, there would be a number of business expenses to consider.
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combat??? do you loose many customers??????
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no, i havent 'lost a customer' for years. doing only military quarters means i have a fair turnover in soldiers that get posted but i seem over the years to maintain or increase the customer base.
The car / van thing is an image thing with my wife and we'll leave it at that or it will go off topic, I think the best course of action is to become so successful that i cannot manage without a van!
I do try to run the business tight on costs but can do 80 - 100 miles round trip in getting to army camps where i have business.
Thanks for all the help, it only worried me because reading the frequent posts on here i seemed to be a low earner and after the time i've been doing it i should be at least at a decent level on the scale.
It dosent worry me though, i love the life and after 20 years in sales i wish i'd gone full time much earlier.
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IMO you are not doing anything wrong. if your not losing customers your doing alot of thing s right!!!!! Cleaning to a top standard takes time. Just up the prices slightly and you will be earning your 150. happy days ;D
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Combat , not getting the van bit chap , does your other half like to see you struggle or what ?
What i would do in you position is to get a tank , 250 or 350 layflat depending on the size of your astra , not sure which would fit best, if you have to fold the back seats for the 350 then so be it , that much water should do you all day .
Mount your trolley by the hatchback , that way you can go mobile if plumbed right .
100 m of hose and your laughing , as said wfp everything , you wont look back , check out Dazmonds posts .
The other thing i would like to point out is the money bit , nowt wrong with what your pulling in chap , screw what you read on here , just to put my point across , i have been full time for 6 years , i have a transporter with full 2 man set up and a combo with 1 man set up , and power wash ability oh and also a gutter vac on board too .
The combo dont get out much due to staff probs , i.e , cant find the right blokes !
The transporter goes out every possible day and earns whatever it earns 1 day it can pull £380 and the next it can pull £120 , both figs are for 2 men :o
Do i care , no not really , im happy with the figure at the end of the year so why stress out , i used to do 60 hours a week for £215 take home in another line of work .
Just think about the tank mate , you aint no spring chicken no more ;D ;D ;D
Regards Rich
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good to hear some honest reply's for once, my advice would be het a van with a system in it with the biggest tank you can, if im honest i earn between £100 to £200 a day but not enough work for 5 days like that but when i am working i always aim for about £150 a day even if i end up working till 630 pm
forget what some idiots post about earning loads as it prob a load of rubbish and they prob work in a office and never been out
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I have to agree that your primary goal should be to make your working life as easy as possible.
And I agree with the advice that has already been given that a "van mounted" system would be the best way to go.
There are systems available that will go into estate vehicles if a van is not available.
You will have more energy, be less fatigued and likely be able to do more work in a day.
I guarantee it :D
The only thing I lift during the day is a pole with a brush on it which probably weighs about 1.5 kgs, surely thats got to be better than lugging 25 kg barrels and backpacks about!
At the minimum it would be worth considering a hosereel with 100mtrs of microbore hose.
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if you not happy with your earnings then simply put the price up.i really do think you should get a van and put a tank in it as well.you ll be more efficient and speed up a bit as well as less strain on the body in general.
as for your missus not liking you having a van.are you a man or a mouse?if she is worried about "image" then id dump her.she sounds like a snob to me.i went out with a woman like that once.she was a bit posh and always worried about what other people thought of her/us.needless to say i got rid.
shes being very unreasonable IMO.likes been said already your no spring chicken so you want to make your working day as easy and efficient as possible.
regards
dazmond
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Hi Combat1
I'm the same age as you and I can't do 1 house with a back pack, so how you manage the number you do is beyond me. I find the weight of the packback seems to cut blood circulation to my arms and my head starts to go light and buzzy.
I would also advise a van mount as hose management is less energy zapping. I would probably try a sack truck to start with to put your backpack on.
Also remember we aren't as fit as we were 15 years ago.
Spruce
You don't need to put a backpack on your back, just the same as you don't need to lug the water round with you. As Spruce says let the hose do the work for you.
If a van's out of the question how about a trailer?
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the best way to increase your earnings is to get a van mount, and i cant understand why the missus has a problem with a van, when your driving an astra estate ???
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if you not happy with your earnings then simply put the price up.i really do think you should get a van and put a tank in it as well.you ll be more efficient and speed up a bit as well as less strain on the body in general.
as for your missus not liking you having a van.are you a man or a mouse?if she is worried about "image" then id dump her.she sounds like a snob to me.i went out with a woman like that once.she was a bit posh and always worried about what other people thought of her/us.needless to say i got rid.
shes being very unreasonable IMO.likes been said already your no spring chicken so you want to make your working day as easy and efficient as possible.
bit harsh daz lol, might have been married for 40 years
regards
dazmond
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All points taken and thanks very much for all your help.
Dazmond you are of course right! however we have a 3yr old son and hes more important than the van and setup! mind you the van is quite important!
So as i said earlier we are starting to slip off window cleaning.
One thing is certain, come the rain or whatever i'm going to do £150 tomorrow!
just to round it off, and i've never made two pages before on a post, heres my tongue in cheek action plan.
1. Get rid of missus
2. Buy van and unit
3. Do whole house WFP
4. Put up prices
5. Get work nearer to home
6. Thank everyone on CIU
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dont listern to all what some of these windys earn on here.you have got this spot on mate. average out how long it takes you and if you can waterfed bottoms aswell. lead windows zip off with wp pole only.
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Combat , heres a couple of pics of the combo i have , the van was £500 ready to drive and i think i gave £150 for the 350 upright , put this with your trolley and get your hose and reel and your away .
If you did a post last month i would have give you the lot for £500 and taken £100 a month off you , but against my better judjment im giving another bloke a go , having said that , hes turning out to be quite an asset so far , if it fails i will get in touch if it suits you .
Regards Rich
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100 -130 a day Is not that Bad.
This place is full of dreamer who ' say they earn 300 a day '
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£3 for a garage door?
They take seconds...
They only take seconds with a WFP - they take a lot longer with a big sponge - and last time I looked, I spent a fair bit of cash on van/tank/pump/hose/reel/pump/flow controller/IBC/transfer pump/leisure battery/battery charger/and ruddy poles/other stuff I can't remember.
I don't think the time it takes is just the issue here.
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Tosh , you forgot to mention all that time you spent trying to get H2O out of 2 brush heads at once ;D
Fantastic vid mate , can we see it again ;D ;D ;D
Rich
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Tosh , you forgot to mention all that time you spent trying to get H2O out of 2 brush heads at once ;D
Fantastic vid mate , can we see it again ;D ;D ;D
Rich
Yes, and the week pulling yer hair out trying to get it to work smoothly.
No, the vid is gone, mate! ;D
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£3 for a garage door?
They take seconds...
They only take seconds with a WFP - they take a lot longer with a big sponge - and last time I looked, I spent a fair bit of cash on van/tank/pump/hose/reel/pump/flow controller/IBC/transfer pump/leisure battery/battery charger/and ruddy poles/other stuff I can't remember.
I don't think the time it takes is just the issue here.
At last, someone who "wants" to earn money for what they do, and remembers that he had to pay out to get the equipment to do so ;D ;D
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Guys.
Combat is 60 years old. There is no way that he is as fit as he was 10 or 15 years ago. Its alright saying how many houses you do, but when you are young you have lots of stamina to get on with it. As you get older the work rates drops off during the latter part of the day. Give it all you have today and you pay the penalty tomorrow.
Sometimes us older ones need to pace ourselves, and unfortunately this impacts on our daily income. When I am tired time seems to fly by and I have little to show for it - it's a though I go into a coma standing up.
Dazmond has noticed a big difference with his van mount - he isn't as tried at the end of the day, as he is a bit younger than we are.
One has to be a bit careful when putting a tank in the back of an estate car. I don't know about the Astra, but when I worked for Citroen the payload of a Berlingo Multispace was about 450kgs if my memory serves me right, where the van was 600 and 800 depending on model.
I'm sure he would be able to put a 250 litre tank in the back of his Astra, maybe even 300 litres at a push. As some of his custom is a fair distance away, he can't just pop home to refill his tank. Is there a possibility of processing water (with permission) on site say using a 40/40 R/O during a break for lunch?
Next thing I would consider is an SLX pole, rigid and light which will also reduce fatigue later in the day.
Spruce
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well, did the 150! stated first house at 7.45 and finished 4.45 but dfid it.
I have to say hard day, bit of time taken to get a tube of savlon after getting impaled on rose bush at first house (rushing too much), detangling hose, and fetching sign from last house where i'd left it! fetching a bar of chocolate and two loo breaks.
Had eight 25 litre drums and used them all. one thing is certain I could do it easily with a van mount, we are going to have to have a serious talk.
Cheers everyone
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Even a small berlingo with a 300 litre tank you would easy knock out 150 a day depending on prices
Good luck mate
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well, did the 150! stated first house at 7.45 and finished 4.45 but dfid it.
I have to say hard day, bit of time taken to get a tube of savlon after getting impaled on rose bush at first house (rushing too much), detangling hose, and fetching sign from last house where i'd left it! fetching a bar of chocolate and two loo breaks.
Had eight 25 litre drums and used them all. one thing is certain I could do it easily with a van mount, we are going to have to have a serious talk.
Cheers everyone
Hi Combat
How have you done today after that effort yesterday?
Spruce
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Hi Spruce, I thought you might ask that! felt bad last night until after the shower.
Truth is I bought a red bull and a bar of chocolate to keep going yesterday, and I think the reason was because I knew someone would ask me if i'd done the £150.
Today was better, did 155 and it seemed easier, could be a motivation thing.
How you doin, where abouts are you?
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God I hope I'm not working at 60 :'(
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Hi Spruce, I thought you might ask that! felt bad last night until after the shower.
Truth is I bought a red bull and a bar of chocolate to keep going yesterday, and I think the reason was because I knew someone would ask me if i'd done the £150.
Today was better, did 155 and it seemed easier, could be a motivation thing.
How you doin, where abouts are you?
Hi Combat.
As I said yesterday, I find that a drive one day knackers me the following day. I am in Saltburn in Cleveland, and we don't manage to achieve the 3 bedroom semi prices you guys manage down South. We mainly work out of Skelton and area where there is a fixed perception of what a window clean is worth. (A friend and fellow window cleaner has got rid of all his work in this area for the same reason). My health isn't good either, I have Prostate Cancer and a bad back so haven't the stamina like the young ones have. When I come home I need to chill out for work tomorrow, so tend to pace myself, like the tortoise of the Tortoise and the Hare story.
I have only ever achieved what you did once and prayed for rain the following day so I had a legitimate excuse for a day off.
Its also all well and good these youngsters telling us they have done this amount and you should be doing this, but everyone is different. We live next to the coast and need to spend more time on the windows, especially scrubbing and rinsing, because if we don't there is the likelyhood of streaks from the salt water spray. I do overdo the amount of time I spend on the windows, mainly out of concern of not doing a first class job. (I helped a mate with some of his customers inland last year and experienced a big difference in the amount of washing and rinsing he needed to do with his customers.)
Alex Gardiner once recommended the correct WFP process was to wash each window pane twice and rinse thoroughly, but most don't seem to bother, which may explain why they are so much quicker. But I think the real reason is that they have the stamina to continue working quickly, whereas I need to take a pause to 'catch my breath'.
I also think you will be quicker if you can also do the bottom windows WFP as well. I would phone Vauxhall's technical dept and ask them what payload your estate will carry. (They will probably ask for your chassis number as well as your reg no.) Once you have this you will be able to make an informed decision about fitting a permanent tank in this your current car. I also suggested that you check if you are able to process water on the MOD sites you work on. If so installing a 40/40 R/O could solve your water capacity issues. If everyone is on a water meter, then maybe a free clean to someone each month who will let you plug your R/O into the tap may be a fair trade - they will come out better off as it won't cost them £10.00 for 250 or 300 litres once a month.
Cheers
Spruce
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God I hope I'm not working at 60 :'(
Hi mls.
In all honesty, I hope you aren't as well. Unfortunately, I have been in the UK for 18 years and so aren't entitled to a pension as I haven't worked here all my life. So I expect to work for as long as I can. I gave up a good job and pension at Robert Bosch South Africa for a better quality of life (minus crime and violence) over here. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it.
I'm grateful for WFP as it has given me the opportunity to extend my working life, and I can do it in very low crime invironment.
Spruce
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Taxman here, all of you who posted figures of hourly rates expect a visit. All of you who boast of no undercutters in your area, they will arrive soon. WAKE UP! Children are having their nails pulled out with pliers in syria! Mass strike here this month, don't u just love public workers? Public workers paying your wages, think of a trade? plumbing comes to mind. Plumbing is dead, window cleaning going same way fast. Use your head. Other posts i read are things like is undercutting fair? When you have all killed this trade, what job YOU yes YOU going to do? Banker? just think Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Libya etc.etc. When DJ Cameron really starts to spin those discs, when he needs mney for more apache heli's he gonna take money from where he can find it. Show me a skint wc? Havig bad day, but it needs to be said. Close this site down now x
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Eh ?
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When my van died I decided not to replace it, I now use the car and a trailer.
I use a 50 ltr trolley system which that has a hose reel mounted, this suits my round, if I wanted too I could put a tank in the trailer instead of the containers. My Mrs fills containers when I'm out working, just chuck out the empties and load up with full.
Since I started drawing my old age pension nearly 4 years ago I only work 4 days a week, my prices are not the best.
When you live in an area with so many on minimum wage and loads of window cleaners, you will soon be undercut if you price too high. I do smallish 3 bed semis with a con for a tenner.[ very compact] In other areas I can get that for just the house.
I have lost more than I have gained in customers since the recession started to bite. People are really feeling the pinch around here. If I can start domestic cleaning at 8.30, I am happy if I earn £130 by 3.30. I can't keep up the relentless pace i used to, and try and give myself a break every couple of hours.
Just a slurp from the flask and a glance at the paper and back to it.
I too find that if I push it too hard today, I will have less energy tomorrow.
My trailer has a ramp for the trolley and this has made things a lot easier. I do have the option of using a longer hose reel, and using the system as a van mount, I just prefer using the trolley with twin containers, and a lot of my work couldn't be done with a van mount unless I used 250 mtrs of hose.
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To all you oldies from another struggling oldie - just one more year to go before my State Pittance.
I recently got to a point where I was really struggling some days. 25 litre containers/trolley set-up etc etc....
Following advice from another recent thread that I started, I've made some major changes to my system.
My pole was an SLX 25 but fitted with an alloy gooseneck and Super-lite dual trim. I've now fitted a carbon fibre gooseneck and Superlite Xtreme brush from Gardiners - the difference in weight with pole extended off vertical is amazing and I really like the brush.
I bought a 200 litre tank and fitted it in my Picasso and made up my own pump box which also powers a bilge pump for the times I have to use the trolley.
Now I spend every day without lifting any heavy weights. It was the weight that was causing my joint and muscle problems and generally making me feel very tired. Some days I felt quite unwell but check-ups at the doctors show nothing nasty - just the start of old age symptoms and pushing too hard.
When it was first suggested that I go 'van mount' I thought there would be lots of situations where I wouldn't be able to use the hose reel. The fact of the matter is that I only need the trolley for a very small proportion of my work. I'm using 60 mtrs of the yellow 6mm micorbore hose. My pump is 100 psi and is controlled by an analogue Varistream.
Hopefully food for thought for my fellow oldies....