Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: GB Window Cleaning on June 09, 2011, 03:20:28 pm
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ok so ever since ive had a couple of complaints about wfp spotting ive been scrubbing and rinsing like mad and cchecking all windows after ive cleaned them.
today ive noticed alot of the windows i clean (im only wfp above ground floor by the way! trad ground floor) are very badly spotted :o
trouble is you can only really see these spots when the sun is very bright and shining directly on the glass!!! :o
im really dishartened with the whole thing now and seriously thinking of packing up all together! :( before i get sued for ruining all my custys glass :-[
these spots are very bad!!! they will not clean off at all! no matter how much scrubbing and rinsing i do!
i think ive cuased the problem myself by not having a high enough flow rate and maybe not scrubbing the glass enough
im only di in a hard water area using a 35 ltr trolley, and i had my flow rate as low as it would go for for a long time when i first got my wfp set up!
ive recently uped the flow a bit and started scrubbing the glass twice but i think its too late for all my existing custys now!
im reall really p***ed off today now and i think i might have to jack in this window cleaning lark before the poop hits the fan!
also let this be a warning to everyone, your glass might look superb from the ground floor without direct sunlight on it but start looking at south facing glass for water marks when the sun is blazing on them!
ive never used water over 12 ppm and now i never use water over 000 ppm
HELP please
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GB,
You now realise that a high flow rate is important so if you have caused hard water marks in the past you wont being making it worse from now on.
Also I doubt you wont be able to remove any marks you have left in the past with a bottle of Winsol 550 so I wouldn't worry too much.
Like you said in your OP you've only had a couple of complaints........ so chill man, chill!
Unless of course your near me and in that case you should run for the hills and sell me your work very very cheap. ;)
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AL S... is 2 ltrs per minute a high enough flow rate i was using about 1.3 ltr per min before?!?!
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Sorry GB,
I wouldn't know I've never measured it, I have it set to the point where its at its highest flow without bouncing back off the windows too much when rinsing.
I tried the water saving method when I first started out but found by using a much higher flow rate it saves a lot of time and I barely use any more water because I don't spend as long rinsing.
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:( im really disalusioned now!
i dont know what to do with myself! not felt like this since i was unemployed! :'(
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I think it would hepl if you were WFP ground floor as well. You'd then see more clearly your results and the amount of brushing and rinsing required to get perfection.
I clean my own windows really quickly and they come up perfect every time. Also my mum's.
My first results were poor. I went back to basics. I first went around all the front tops concentrating mostly on frames. Then the same with the bottoms. Then I went back to the tops and scrubbed glass only then rinsed. Then the same with the bottoms. I now don't do that, becuase I believe that exercise taught me enough so that I don't need to.
I really think doing bottoms trad doesn't help you - especially if you are really quick as you will constantly be trying to maintain same speed on tops without mastering WFP properly.
Just my thoughts.
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Is this your first time around your customers? I find first WFP cleans on windows that were previously done trad much more prone to spotting, but once you've done them twice, they're fine.
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have you tried it on your own windows? wfp shouldnt leave spots that you can't remove with a bit of scrubbing, are you sure the spotting wasnt already there, also have you got a decent tds meter as there are some cheap copies out there that dont work properly, are you sure your tds is 000?
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How many times have they been done WFP?
You do need a good flow rate which is why most go for large tanks, its only after the initial few cleans that you can start to turn it down.
I work on the basis that for every 200L I use it earns me £100. I have no idea what flow rate is.
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the trouble is that with wfp is that you have to rinse three times per pane unit and a quick squirt with water aint goin to do a good job. how much water do you use on a frame and do you do the frames then wash down.
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I think it would hepl if you were WFP ground floor as well. You'd then see more clearly your results and the amount of brushing and rinsing required to get perfection.
I clean my own windows really quickly and they come up perfect every time. Also my mum's.
My first results were poor. I went back to basics. I first went around all the front tops concentrating mostly on frames. Then the same with the bottoms. Then I went back to the tops and scrubbed glass only then rinsed. Then the same with the bottoms. I now don't do that, becuase I believe that exercise taught me enough so that I don't need to.
I really think doing bottoms trad doesn't help you - especially if you are really quick as you will constantly be trying to maintain same speed on tops without mastering WFP properly.
Just my thoughts.
yeah i think im gonna have to get a van mount and start doing 100% wfp or something
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Is this your first time around your customers? I find first WFP cleans on windows that were previously done trad much more prone to spotting, but once you've done them twice, they're fine.
no tosh, ive been wfp for a while now!
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have you tried it on your own windows? wfp shouldnt leave spots that you can't remove with a bit of scrubbing, are you sure the spotting wasnt already there, also have you got a decent tds meter as there are some cheap copies out there that dont work properly, are you sure your tds is 000?
i cant be positive the spots wernt there before on all of then but they defo wernt there on some! i didnt think wfp coule leave hard water mark either! my tds meter is an "hm digital" as far as i know my water is 000ppm
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How many times have they been done WFP?
You do need a good flow rate which is why most go for large tanks, its only after the initial few cleans that you can start to turn it down.
I work on the basis that for every 200L I use it earns me £100. I have no idea what flow rate is.
theyve been done wfp loads. some have only been done wfp, by me anyway!
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the trouble is that with wfp is that you have to rinse three times per pane unit and a quick squirt with water aint goin to do a good job. how much water do you use on a frame and do you do the frames then wash down.
i only rinse once. i go round frame once not much water i suppose but i dont really rinse the frame!
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I think it would hepl if you were WFP ground floor as well. You'd then see more clearly your results and the amount of brushing and rinsing required to get perfection.
I reckon that's the advice of the day. Do a couple of houses like that and take a look when they are dry.
Do your own one at a time and take a look when dry. Then rty something different on the next one. Offer your neighbours a free clean provided you can check the results afterwards (I did this when I started and learned a lot).
Vin
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Not rinsing frames? theres your anwer and a good rule to work by... if your brush touches it you rinse it!
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the trouble is that with wfp is that you have to rinse three times per pane unit and a quick squirt with water aint goin to do a good job. how much water do you use on a frame and do you do the frames then wash down.
I've never done that and I've had two complaints (VERY minor spotting) in the past year.
If your flow rate is high enough you don't need to redo them.
Vin
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have you tried it on your own windows? wfp shouldnt leave spots that you can't remove with a bit of scrubbing, are you sure the spotting wasnt already there, also have you got a decent tds meter as there are some cheap copies out there that dont work properly, are you sure your tds is 000?
i cant be positive the spots wernt there before on all of then but they defo wernt there on some! i didnt think wfp coule leave hard water mark either! my tds meter is an "hm digital" as far as i know my water is 000ppm
WFP doesn't leave hard water marks as such, it's just pure water which has got contaminated some how, probably with dirt or oxidisation of the top frame.
The best advise I can give you is to study how & where the contamination is coming about. In my experience it will be from the top frame & or vent. I rarely clean the top frame these days but I know which ones I can get away with & which I can't. Remember, even a little bit of dirt which isn't removed & flushed away from the top frame will stand out like a sore thumb on a perfectly clean window when it runs down.
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Sorry to hear of your problems but don't get too disheartened.
Are you absolutely sure you are working with 000 water. It sounds like you might be rinsing with water with a high calcium content. When that dries it can be quite difficult get off sometimes - but it WILL come off.
Keep persevering and it will come right for you.
John
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I've had this stubborn spotting and staining. And in my experience it will not come off with your wfp. It needs a microfibre over it, either get up the ladder or drapse it over your tbar on a trad pole and rub it off, then clean again with the wfp. Usually happens on first cleans when the spotting has been missed for whatever reason, it does leave a residue. You should be able to tell if a window is going to spot by looking at the pattern of the water droplets on the window.
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Not rinsing frames? theres your anwer and a good rule to work by if your brush touches it you rinse it!
ok, will do!
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GB, sorry to hear your still having problems.
What perentage of your customers are complaining 1, 5 , 10%?
I had some custies who were dead against wfp and always had me nervous and deflated :(
they cancelled or i did.
Had one last month small front do upstairs wfp big downstairs window do trad.
started doing downstairs window wfp and all of a sudden all windows are streaky!
I notice your di in a hard water area, i think this must be making things harder, do you check ppm regular.
what brush are you using GB?
Is it a mono-filament (doesn't trap dirt in bristles, which can cause spotting)
Can you gt a few hours out with someone on here?
where do you live?
When i first started wfp, i put a couple of tiny drops of gg3 in each barrel i mean two tiny drops i'm sure this made life easier.
I remember justin ruggles on clean it up use to soak his brush in a bucket of pure water with tiny bit of gg3, and he was suprised at dirt particles in bucket at end of the day.
This was a few years ago and we have more brushes available and vikan make mono-filament brushes now to.
I hope somewhere in all these posts is your answer mate; keep going ;)
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Sorry to hear of your problems but don't get too disheartened.
Are you absolutely sure you are working with 000 water. It sounds like you might be rinsing with water with a high calcium content. When that dries it can be quite difficult get off sometimes - but it WILL come off.
Keep persevering and it will come right for you.
John
thanks john, what do you mean by high calcium cotent? i thought if my water iss 000ppm thats all i need to worry about?!?!
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GB, sorry to hear your still having problems.
What perentage of your customers are complaining 1, 5 , 10%?
I had some custies who were dead against wfp and always had me nervous and deflated :(
they cancelled or i did.
Had one last month small front do upstairs wfp big downstairs window do trad.
started doing downstairs window wfp and all of a sudden all windows are streaky!
I notice your di in a hard water area, i think this must be making things harder, do you check ppm regular.
what brush are you using GB?
Is it a mono-filament (doesn't trap dirt in bristles, which can cause spotting)
Can you gt a few hours out with someone on here?
where do you live?
When i first started wfp, i put a couple of tiny drops of gg3 in each barrel i mean two tiny drops i'm sure this made life easier.
I remember justin ruggles on clean it up use to soak his brush in a bucket of pure water with tiny bit of gg3, and he was suprised at dirt particles in bucket at end of the day.
This was a few years ago and we have more brushes available and vikan make mono-filament brushes now to.
I hope somewhere in all these posts is your answer mate; keep going ;)
thats the funny thing hardly any custy complin :o
i check my water very very regular! i might as well be a human in-line tds meter! :)
my brush is an hunger flocked, square and green
id love to go out with another wfp windy if there are any offers! im in lincoln, east mids
you used soap in your pure water? :o rather you than me!
thanks for your advice mate, keep it coming!
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sorry GB i live in essex, anyone else nearby to GB?
I wonder if it is your brush, don't know if you already know this so will bore you with it.
Flocked brushes say vikan brushes: are for use for washing car, trucks, trains etc.
The flocked brush means bristles on brush are split and have a fluffy feel, this is so they don't scratch bodywork on cars etc.
But the theory is they trap dirt particles in between bristles.
Mono-filament brushes are made for window cleaning and meant to not have this problem, that's the theory.
vikan make mono-filament brushes now and have red bristles.
I never had problem with gg3 in pure water and still do for some conny roofs.
gg3 and gg4 are a bit more advanced than soap and are claim to soften water for cleaning gg3 for tap water soft and gg4 for hard water areas.
when you read the instructions on the bottle it says you can leave on glass wet to dry.
I would notdo with tap water but have found fine with pure.
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sorry GB i live in essex, anyone else nearby to GB?
I wonder if it is your brush, don't know if you already know this so will bore you with it.
Flocked brushes say vikan brushes: are for use for washing car, trucks, trains etc.
The flocked brush means bristles on brush are split and have a fluffy feel, this is so they don't scratch bodywork on cars etc.
But the theory is they trap dirt particles in between bristles.
Mono-filament brushes are made for window cleaning and meant to not have this problem, that's the theory.
vikan make mono-filament brushes now and have red bristles.
I never had problem with gg3 in pure water and still do for some conny roofs.
gg3 and gg4 are a bit more advanced than soap and are claim to soften water for cleaning gg3 for tap water soft and gg4 for hard water areas.
when you read the instructions on the bottle it says you can leave on glass wet to dry.
I would notdo with tap water but have found fine with pure.
I see me and you are like chalk and cheese. Flocked brushes are made for window cleaning. They brush the glass much better (IMO), especially at height when its harder to apply leverage. Monofilamets can leave you with a comb effect.True a monofilament does not hold dirt so easy, but if a flocked does hold dirt the by definition it wouldn't be dripping on to his windows !! What good a few drops of GG3 in your water does for a conny roof i've no idea, but each to their own, if it works for ya the keep doing it i suppose. And i do use tap water for conny roofs, takes allsorts i guess !!!
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Are they sure its you and the seals are broken which get condensation in between double glazing if they are double glaze and some types of glass dont do well with wfp as they always spot.
The only way to check properly is get a ladder up there to give it the once over.
You mention about using di in hard water but do you use an ro too as for some dont use ro's.
Just trying to eliminate that might cause you problems... ;D ;D
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If your custies ain't complaining don't worry!
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You say spots but you don't say where they are. Its very importantant to know, it can only be dirty water and it can only run down from above.
A row of spots coming down the glass getting smaller as they go down, thats dirty drips off the frame for example.
Calm down and start looking, the answer will be there and you will find it. Analyise the proplem and don't panic.
What jets are you using, are you spraying water onto the dirty frame when you rinse? All sorts of questions come to mind.
Describe the spots to us and we can help you but stop panicing and don't give up because there has to be a logical answer.
And yes clean your own windows and do some of the ground floor ones. They dry very quickly this time of year and you can see the results before you leave.
But my guess is its drips from the top of the frames so don't get them wet.
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It might seem obvious but have you tried another tds meter. i have two and always test them against each other on 000 and 360 tap water to make sure they are ok. You could be rinsing with higher tds than you think you are.
Andy
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GB it could be a combination of all these things mentioned but rinising could be one
For instance if the weather has been fairly dry and windy there is more dust and pollen settling on top of frames and sills, so you need to give a extra rinse on frames and glass a bit like an initial clean ,
also if you're containers have got some green in them it might be affecting you're water , tds in full containers , Every 3 months i clean mine out with milton sterilising fluid ,
And lastly mate i use a trolley and carry 10 containers 300ltrs water in the back of my 4wd and get a good days work , what motor are you using
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sorry GB i live in essex, anyone else nearby to GB?
I wonder if it is your brush, don't know if you already know this so will bore you with it.
Flocked brushes say vikan brushes: are for use for washing car, trucks, trains etc.
The flocked brush means bristles on brush are split and have a fluffy feel, this is so they don't scratch bodywork on cars etc.
But the theory is they trap dirt particles in between bristles.
Mono-filament brushes are made for window cleaning and meant to not have this problem, that's the theory.
vikan make mono-filament brushes now and have red bristles.
I never had problem with gg3 in pure water and still do for some conny roofs.
gg3 and gg4 are a bit more advanced than soap and are claim to soften water for cleaning gg3 for tap water soft and gg4 for hard water areas.
when you read the instructions on the bottle it says you can leave on glass wet to dry.
I would notdo with tap water but have found fine with pure.
thanks mate. if anyone is near me im willing to travel!!! i'd like to work with another well established wfp'er please get intouch
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Are they sure its you and the seals are broken which get condensation in between double glazing if they are double glaze and some types of glass dont do well with wfp as they always spot.
The only way to check properly is get a ladder up there to give it the once over.
You mention about using di in hard water but do you use an ro too as for some dont use ro's.
Just trying to eliminate that might cause you problems... ;D ;D
its definatly not inbetween the pains of glass its on the outside!
im only twin di at the mo, but my dad is gonna loan me some money if i want to get set up propery! how much cash will i need for a good set up in a 300ppm area i have the van a pole and other stuff already!?
thankyou.
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mike, i have used all sorts of brushes.
with out sounding like doing a u-turn i think i said the theory is;
suppose i'm clutching at straws abit, but don't like hearing GB's suffering.
I have a bentley broom head i use on fish pole for town-houses.
technique and rinse, i think when i first swapped over to wfp, i expected it to be quicker and it wasn't, i was 40% down on my money first week, then crept back up to normal by week 3.
Now it's a lot better but i'm a trolley user so still not perfect.
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been looking at more of the 1st floor windows i do wfp and MOST of them look very very spotted :(
started doing the arkward ground floor window for an experiment! so i can see results close up
but its the same thing today really they look mint when the sun is not on them very strange!
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You need to check the TDS of the water you're using. Find another windy and ask to borrow his meter.
Vin
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You need to check the TDS of the water you're using. Find another windy and ask to borrow his meter.
Vin
yeah good idea, im thinking it must be a combination of poor technique (as im self tought) and maybe less then 100% pure water! but according to my tds meter ive worked with water over 12ppm!
i just cant believe more custys arnt complaining, thank god for that at least!
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I really wouldn't worry too much if customers aren't complaining. Did a house today and we were doing some garden work so were there till the windows dried and there were a couple of windows with white marks down them. She's a good customer so I was just tradding them and she asked what I was doing because and I said there were just a few marks and she said they look fine to me leave them!!! I did them anyway but I reckon we're more obsessed with marks than customers are..
Only ones to worry about are the OCD ones with perfectly clean insides...... ;D
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i think i might pick one house a day to do trad and get my mdr out to do hard water mark removal until ive got them all perfect again! sound good?
except for the ones i cant get like over conny roofs and stuff unless i can get them from the inside!
I dont recon i'd use trad pole to do hard water marks removal sounds dodgy to me! anyone else done hard water mark removal with trod pole?
thanks.
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GB IF THE TDS IS 000PPM THEN THIS SHOULD BE OK. I TEND TO PUT A BIT OF WHITE SPIRIT IN THE MIX WHITCH WILL LEAVE A FILM ON THE WINDOWS WHEN WATERFEDING. AND THIS DOESNT ALTER THE TDS EITHER.
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GB IF THE TDS IS 000PPM THEN THIS SHOULD BE OK. I TEND TO PUT A BIT OF WHITE SPIRIT IN THE MIX WHITCH WILL LEAVE A FILM ON THE WINDOWS WHEN WATERFEDING. AND THIS DOESNT ALTER THE TDS EITHER.
sorry a & j im not sure i follow you mate. why would you want to leave a film on the glass ???
thanks for the knowledge anyway brother, i apprciate you time more than you know!
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ive found that if ive got a window with a top double opener i make sure idont get water in between as it dribbles down makes a pigs ear of it
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just about everyone if not all i do water fed pole are f***ed >:(
but like i said they look fine from the ground when the sun is not blazing down on them!
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Do you keep tap water in your tank then pass it through the Di to the glass or are you filling the tank with 000tds? If its the latter, check the tds of the tank water, because it may read 000 when you start filling but the resin could have expired by the time it has finished, especially in hard water area. Resin on its own won't last long.
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Do you keep tap water in your tank then pass it through the Di to the glass or are you filling the tank with 000tds? If its the latter, check the tds of the tank water, because it may read 000 when you start filling but the resin could have expired by the time it has finished, especially in hard water area. Resin on its own won't last long.
i fill my 25 ltr barrels every morning and check the ppm at least twice for each barrel fill! its not like im not checking my tds very very regular, my "HM digital" tds hand held meter is only about a year old how often do they need calibrating?
thanks
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this is really getting me down at the mo, im still half inclined to pack up the windows altogether and try something else ??? but god know what :( sorry to harp on but you lot are the only people i can talk to who actually know what your on about!
i try talking to family and friends but they end up anoying me because they say silly things like...
"any water thats not dried off properly with leave spots" and...
"just wipe them off"
but the trust is they wont just effing wipe off there effing hard water marks some effing how!!! :'(
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If it was your first time wfp after being trad then i'd have said your problem was down to scrubbing. You have to remove all of the old soap residue as this will leave spots. You say you've wfp'd these houses before then i'd say your problem is rinsing if your cleaning at zero ppm. It doesn't matter what your flow is if you're not rinsing enough. Chase the water down the frame. If the problem continues then you have a couple of problem houses. We all have them,you are just being too critical on marks that won't show from the inside out.
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thanks luther, it makes me feel better when i can talk to someone who knows what there on about
by the way am i the only person to create hard water spots with wfp? ive never heard of it before and thats why i thought it was imposibble!?!?!
thanks
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have you tried it on your own windows? wfp shouldnt leave spots that you can't remove with a bit of scrubbing, are you sure the spotting wasnt already there, also have you got a decent tds meter as there are some cheap copies out there that dont work properly, are you sure your tds is 000?
i cant be positive the spots wernt there before on all of then but they defo wernt there on some! i didnt think wfp coule leave hard water mark either! my tds meter is an "hm digital" as far as i know my water is 000ppm
earlier you said you havnt used water over 12ppm,so does this mean you have used water upto 12ppm,ifso that would most definitly leave spots
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have you tried it on your own windows? wfp shouldnt leave spots that you can't remove with a bit of scrubbing, are you sure the spotting wasnt already there, also have you got a decent tds meter as there are some cheap copies out there that dont work properly, are you sure your tds is 000?
i cant be positive the spots wernt there before on all of then but they defo wernt there on some! i didnt think wfp coule leave hard water mark either! my tds meter is an "hm digital" as far as i know my water is 000ppm
earlier you said you havnt used water over 12ppm,so does this mean you have used water upto 12ppm,ifso that would most definitly leave spots
NOT NESSACARILY but would definately avoid it while converting from trad to wfp
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12ppm has never left spots on any windows i've cleaned and i've gone over that reading loads of times. GB,are you looking so close to the glass that your eye lashes are brushing against it?. Stand 2 feet away and have a look. In fact,don't even bother looking. Clean the house and move on. Trust yourself :)
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GB , are these existing customers that your getting probs with or new accounts ?
If its all the above then then i reckon its down to the fact that you in the past have been a glass only man , i could be wrong , but so many times in the past ive seen this same thread come up .
When trad i saw fit to name my company panes & frames , this was 6 year ago , i therefore on each visit did as i promised and did not cut corners , this is why i was full up in 2 months of hard graft , more importantly i reckon when i went wfp 18 months later i had absolutely no probs with spots or runs .
The only advice i can offer to you is to bite the bullett and spend lots of time on every job scrubbing and rinsing.
You will earn naff all for your time to start , but thats the joy of change over , just glad i had my old man drumming the line "if a jobs worth doing , its worth doing well " all them years ago , cheers dad .
Rich
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GB Windows if this problem gets you so upset, Mate . Maybe you should pack it in. Don't think you are cut out for this job.Find something less stressful to do.
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It sounds like it's only a very tiny amount of customers that have an issue.
Maybe just pass them on to a trad cleaner and get on with rest of the work.
The sttling in period with WFP (first 6 months) cost me about 5% of my customers.
A few were persistent complainers even though nothing was wrong with the work. They just didn't like the glass being left wet. A couple had genuine grievances because there was a lot of oxidisation and try as I would, I couldn't get on top of the milky runs. They happily accepted my recommendation of a local ladder man who I've known for years - especially when I refused to charge them for my final clean.
I did have one place though that had an issue with hard water spots. I was never certain but I believe it was caused by an old overflow pipe way above the window. There was no pipe there at the time but you could see where an old one had been pugged up. I had been cleaning there trad for a while too but you did have to look closely to see them. I suppose that when I switched to WFP she must have started looking more closely. I believe this was confirmed when I looked at the upper side window while on the garage roof. This was much worse as they had a current overflow pipe above. She triewd to blame that onto me as well but I wasn't having it. I was already aware of the state of this window. It's funny because in that particular street, it spread like a contagion. I ended up being dumped by three customers. The ones left all needed ladder access over a garage roof so
I just dropped them.
If you lose or drop 5% of your work when switching in order to keep your round up to scratch then it's a price worth paying IMO. You need to think of the longer term. WFP gives you the tools to compete with the big boys if that's what you want.
I don't want to sound uncaring but those feelings of rejection etc need to be left behind. Losing a few smaller/moderate sized jobs needs to be seen as freeing up time to get better work.
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have you tried it on your own windows? wfp shouldnt leave spots that you can't remove with a bit of scrubbing, are you sure the spotting wasnt already there, also have you got a decent tds meter as there are some cheap copies out there that dont work properly, are you sure your tds is 000?
i cant be positive the spots wernt there before on all of then but they defo wernt there on some! i didnt think wfp coule leave hard water mark either! my tds meter is an "hm digital" as far as i know my water is 000ppm
earlier you said you havnt used water over 12ppm,so does this mean you have used water upto 12ppm,ifso that would most definitly leave spots
i used to regularly use water upto 12ppm possibly slightly higher :-[
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GB , are these existing customers that your getting probs with or new accounts ?
If its all the above then then i reckon its down to the fact that you in the past have been a glass only man , i could be wrong , but so many times in the past ive seen this same thread come up .
When trad i saw fit to name my company panes & frames , this was 6 year ago , i therefore on each visit did as i promised and did not cut corners , this is why i was full up in 2 months of hard graft , more importantly i reckon when i went wfp 18 months later i had absolutely no probs with spots or runs .
The only advice i can offer to you is to bite the bullett and spend lots of time on every job scrubbing and rinsing.
You will earn naff all for your time to start , but thats the joy of change over , just glad i had my old man drumming the line "if a jobs worth doing , its worth doing well " all them years ago , cheers dad .
Rich
there existing custys!
i was never a glass only man either!
i have already done as you sudjested and spread my work out to allow lots of time for scrubbing and rinsing but as i said these spots are not coming off easy!
thanks mate!
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GB I’m new to this game and use Trad so have no experience regarding WFP but looking at this from from a different standpoint I have to say if I read on here you have given up ill find you and beat the p*** out of you pal!
Let me explain you’re clearly a decent bloke as you getting annoyed which shows you care not only about the job your doing but other people’s property Id be exactly the same as I’m the worrying sort.
I got in to this game for two reason one of which was I got fed up with idiots taking liberties not cleaning my parents house properly, one time I caught this clown pi**ing down the side of my Mum's house! Don’t worry he can’t do that anymore : ) Anyhow If a needed a window cleaner id ask you because I know you’d do a proper job and that’s key to keeping customers rather than just saying if they don’t complain don’t worry! Having said that I’m not knocking anyone on here for that, it’s good advice as its clearly upsetting you, so trying to switch off is a very good idea. But if you’re like me and you can’t switch off just wait until you collect and ask your custeys are they happy with the work your doing? Rest assured they will tell you, and if they say no say ill do them again free of charge that way you don’t lose anyone and they realise you have a good work ethic. Honestly mate if I was the head of a big company and read your post Id hire you. Keep at it mate please as this business needs people like you. Let us know when you have found out what the problem is?
Take care mate : )
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^ ;D
maybe the dirts coming of the top frame..
as said buy a new tds meter just incase ;)
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Have you thought of going trad till you get it sorted?
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GB I’m new to this game and use Trad so have no experience regarding WFP but looking at this from from a different standpoint I have to say if I read on here you have given up ill find you and beat the p*** out of you pal!
Let me explain you’re clearly a decent bloke as you getting annoyed which shows you care not only about the job your doing but other people’s property Id be exactly the same as I’m the worrying sort.
I got in to this game for two reason one of which was I got fed up with idiots taking liberties not cleaning my parents house properly, one time I caught this clown pi**ing down the side of my Mum's house! Don’t worry he can’t do that anymore : ) Anyhow If a needed a window cleaner id ask you because I know you’d do a proper job and that’s key to keeping customers rather than just saying if they don’t complain don’t worry! Having said that I’m not knocking anyone on here for that, it’s good advice as its clearly upsetting you, so trying to switch off is a very good idea. But if you’re like me and you can’t switch off just wait until you collect and ask your custeys are they happy with the work your doing? Rest assured they will tell you, and if they say no say ill do them again free of charge that way you don’t lose anyone and they realise you have a good work ethic. Honestly mate if I was the head of a big company and read your post Id hire you. Keep at it mate please as this business needs people like you. Let us know when you have found out what the problem is?
Take care mate : )
beat the p out of you...did you not notice he is a jiu jitsu master? :-X
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GB I’m new to this game and use Trad so have no experience regarding WFP but looking at this from from a different standpoint I have to say if I read on here you have given up ill find you and beat the p*** out of you pal!
Let me explain you’re clearly a decent bloke as you getting annoyed which shows you care not only about the job your doing but other people’s property Id be exactly the same as I’m the worrying sort.
I got in to this game for two reason one of which was I got fed up with idiots taking liberties not cleaning my parents house properly, one time I caught this clown pi**ing down the side of my Mum's house! Don’t worry he can’t do that anymore : ) Anyhow If a needed a window cleaner id ask you because I know you’d do a proper job and that’s key to keeping customers rather than just saying if they don’t complain don’t worry! Having said that I’m not knocking anyone on here for that, it’s good advice as its clearly upsetting you, so trying to switch off is a very good idea. But if you’re like me and you can’t switch off just wait until you collect and ask your custeys are they happy with the work your doing? Rest assured they will tell you, and if they say no say ill do them again free of charge that way you don’t lose anyone and they realise you have a good work ethic. Honestly mate if I was the head of a big company and read your post Id hire you. Keep at it mate please as this business needs people like you. Let us know when you have found out what the problem is?
Take care mate : )
thanks andy. that made me feel better mate! ;)
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GB I know exactly what you mean mate.I still get plenty of these white dots on windows at the tops regardless of whether the frames are clean or how much I rinse.Like you say they look great from a cursory glance but on closer inspection or if viewed from the inside they become apparent.Having said that I have only ever had one complaint from wfp in 2 years and that was with very old leaded windows.I will give the windows a quick wipe at the top with a scrim on the ones I know this is prone to but only on the ground floor as it only takes a minute or two.I think what is obvious to a window cleaner is not noticable to virtually all customers so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it.
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^ ;D
maybe the dirts coming of the top frame..
as said buy a new tds meter just incase ;)
had my tds checked today from the shop i bought it from! they said its perfect!!!
tar ;)
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Have you thought of going trad till you get it sorted?
yeah i have to be honest! i thought i can do one housea day trad till i get them perfect again using mdr to get the marks off or maybe 1 or 2 houses a day, god knows maybe a should just go back traf till there all sorted again then start afresh with wfp
suppose its better this happened now than in a years time when ive got even more custys windows to eff up! ;D
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GB I know exactly what you mean mate.I still get plenty of these white dots on windows at the tops regardless of whether the frames are clean or how much I rinse.Like you say they look great from a cursory glance but on closer inspection or if viewed from the inside they become apparent.Having said that I have only ever had one complaint from wfp in 2 years and that was with very old leaded windows.I will give the windows a quick wipe at the top with a scrim on the ones I know this is prone to but only on the ground floor as it only takes a minute or two.I think what is obvious to a window cleaner is not noticable to virtually all customers so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it.
well said. this seems to be the case with the custy not noticing!
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everyday i go out its just gets worse, effing spots all over the glass. im still really fustrated about the whole thing :(
i jusy dont know how im gonna get them off, some windows that are spotted are not possible to get to with ladders to put them right either
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im seriously thinking of kacking on alltogether! this thought comes and goes but i dont know what else i can do if i jack the windows in?
but i think to be honest its only a matter of time till custy wake up and see these spots in the summer sun and then i'll either lose my custys or worse theyll try and get me to replace the spotted glass
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Could you take some pictures of these spotted windows for us to look at.
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Could you take some pictures of these spotted windows for us to look at.
yeah i will do
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i think its safe to say there is major hard water marks/spotting on just about every single window i do wfp!
but like i say there only really visable in the sun or at least ive only just started to notice them this summer!
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Really feel for you GB, I've only been wfp 3 months after 27 yrs trad. It's a very different ball game and definately not without it's issues. But my advice is this: Don't give up. You have a good work ethic. Probably you have many appreciative custy's who value that. Know what you're going to say if any complain, and don't worry about glass replacement, that's very unlikely to be necessary.
Let us know when you solve it - as you will.
Peter
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thanks peter,
i cant really let this beat me! i think when i get through this dilema i'll be a much better wfp'er at the end of it!
i'm jusy gonna have to do some hard water removal on my ladders and using trad pole!
so for my next boring topic ;D i'll be asking about hard water removal!
thanks again
gb
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GB, interestingly, had job yesterday where wall has just been rendered (last week) custy cleaned off cement from french windows (2 sets). We went yesterday, both sets of windows were a real mess, runs from builders rendering. Thought about scraping but would of taken ages, then remembered, Evans Hi-Phos which I had. Popped some on micro-fibre cloth and wiped over glass. Easy as that, all gone. Then trad cleaned.
Hope this helps,
Peter
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GB, interestingly, had job yesterday where wall has just been rendered (last week) custy cleaned off cement from french windows (2 sets). We went yesterday, both sets of windows were a real mess, runs from builders rendering. Thought about scraping but would of taken ages, then remembered, Evans Hi-Phos which I had. Popped some on micro-fibre cloth and wiped over glass. Easy as that, all gone. Then trad cleaned.
Hope this helps,
Peter
Evans Hi-Phos hey! i'll look into it, tar
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Wow, sorry for resurrecting an old thread.
Was just reading through some old topics as I do.
Did you ever get this problem sorted? I honestly can't work it out, apart from the fact you were DI only in a hard water area, I can't think what you were doing wrong.
Really interested to get an update?
Jonny.
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Wow, sorry for resurrecting an old thread.
Was just reading through some old topics as I do.
Did you ever get this problem sorted? I honestly can't work it out, apart from the fact you were DI only in a hard water area, I can't think what you were doing wrong.
Really interested to get an update?
Jonny.
He's still here so he didn't pack it in. I don't recall him referring to the issue since.
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would be nice to have an update!
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would be nice to have an update!
Definitely!
Don't think he has been back online yet.
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Hi jonny,
well firstly let me just say, When youve been in the game for a while like i have now you tend to care less about such little problems. However i think that particular problem was down to the old glass being below a concrete lintel and therefore over the years the lintel had been dripping rain soaked with lime out of the concrete onto the glass... therefore staining the glass over years of so called hard water on it!
So in other words it wasnt my water at all!
Other problems ive had with spottin grange from the obvious, not rinsing enough, Perished leaching rubber seals on old units and enviroment, i.e rain and high wind blowing dust onto the droplets before they dry!
All the best pal, and don't worry too much about it!
George
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I'll also add, If your water is 000ppm and you brush the glass and rinse well... Leave the rest to the gods and carry on! ;)
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Ah nice one.
Glad it all worked out in the end!
I had some windows like that, then I realised even when I traded the glass the marks were still there.
I figured I was examining the glass much more than customers ever would.lol
Nose to glass with the sun at a perfect angle.
Glad you didn't let it get to you and go back trad. :)